Front End Woes

[dhawke98]

Well after 7 dealer alignments etc and my '03 not being able to hold an alignment even with a new rack, then the dealer saying, "Sir, you're out of courtesy alignments, this is a maintenance issue, not warranty." The arbitration board came back and said FMC has to replace the whole front end and tires.

WOO HOO!!! Now to have them addresses the fuel delivery problem... DOH!

[CRUZTAKER]

Gotta love those arbitrators...'specially when they take your side.:D

[mtnh]

dhawke98, what is your fuel delivery problem?

[Warpath]

With the aluminum front suspension and cross member, it is critical that the proper torque specs are followed. Otherwise, things will move and alignment will change (unless something is screwed up to begin with). I've spoken to some dealer mechanics and they never use a torque wrench. They only go by either feel or impact wrench and don't always achieve the proper torque. Personally, when I get my vehicle home after the dealer, I re-click all the fasteners with a torque wrench. They are not always as tight as they should be. I just hope my torque wrench is accurate.

[merc406]

With anything aluim., don't ya have to re-torque, as in aluim. wheels?

[Petrograde]

Originally posted by Warpath
I just hope my torque wrench is accurate.

Torque wrenches should be calibrated every 6 months, or if you drop it on the ground.:rolleyes: (been there, done that,.. doh!)

Look in the Yellow Pages (or Other Pages,.. whatever..) and you should find a place that can calibrate it for ya.

BTW- if you bought your torque wrench from your local Sears,.. or even Snap-On.... it's NOT calibrated! I don't care what the goon behind the counter (..or in the truck) says.


Originally posted by merc406
With anything aluim., don't ya have to re-torque, as in aluim. wheels?

hmm,.. ok,... yes and no.:rolleyes: everything that has a torque value needs to be re-torqued from time to time. It depends on the fastener being used.... for example, lug nuts and simple hex nuts should be torqued more often than self-locking nuts or hardware using lock-washers.

Tom

[dhawke98]

I wonder about the torque specs as when they replaced the rack, all the nuts were rounded off. I do like the arbitrators. I had asked for new front end and tires or new car. They chose the way I wanted.

As far as fuel system, it stumbles when cold and idles rough. I have seen other postings about this on here. I was going to ask them to do that, replace my steering wheel (leather wrapping is coming off) and fix some of the trim that's out of alignment) when it is in for the new front end.

After all this, the windows will finally get tinted (needed in AZ) and I will start doing some of the other mods you guys have been talking about.

Did all the MM's made in June 2002 have some many little things wrong?

[dhawke98]

Meant to ask if anyone had any better settings for the alignment than the factory settings? Would a good alignment shop be able to set my car neutral rather than the bias to the right as the FMC #'s seem to do?

[RCSignals]

Isn't the cold stumble/rough idle what the EEC reflash covers?

[dhawke98]

I think so, I am going to look at the other postings on that before I go in. I have to wait for confirmation from the arbitration board prior to going in....

[67435animal]

Originally posted by dhawke98
I wonder about the torque specs as when they replaced the rack, all the nuts were rounded off. I do like the arbitrators. I had asked for new front end and tires or new car. They chose the way I wanted.

As far as fuel system, it stumbles when cold and idles rough. I have seen other postings about this on here. I was going to ask them to do that, replace my steering wheel (leather wrapping is coming off) and fix some of the trim that's out of alignment) when it is in for the new front end.

After all this, the windows will finally get tinted (needed in AZ) and I will start doing some of the other mods you guys have been talking about.

Did all the MM's made in June 2002 have some many little things wrong?

Mine is a July 2002 car and no problems like these at all. I have seen the stumble when cold problem and it is addressed by a reflash.

Or, if you want to improve your performance, consider an upgrade to a Superchips Microtuner. I was a stock BMD0 and an now significantly improved with the Superchips program.

Bob

[Warpath]

Originally posted by Petrograde
Torque wrenches should be calibrated every 6 months, or if you drop it on the ground.:rolleyes: (been there, done that,.. doh!)

Look in the Yellow Pages (or Other Pages,.. whatever..) and you should find a place that can calibrate it for ya.

BTW- if you bought your torque wrench from your local Sears,.. or even Snap-On.... it's NOT calibrated! I don't care what the goon behind the counter (..or in the truck) says.



hmm,.. ok,... yes and no.:rolleyes: everything that has a torque value needs to be re-torqued from time to time. It depends on the fastener being used.... for example, lug nuts and simple hex nuts should be torqued more often than self-locking nuts or hardware using lock-washers.

Tom

I agree that torque wrenches need constant maintenance. My torque wrench is leaking oil. I messed it up somehow. I guess I'll just go buy a new one. :rolleyes:

Anyway, your post reminded me of something I forgot to mention. After a joint is torqued, it will relax and the bolt/nut will lose some torque. Its completely natural and unavoidable. The amount of torque drop off depends on just about everything. So, if you do go and check a torque after a mechanic works on it, keep in mind that there is some natural torque loss and also there are differences in measurement from wrench to wrench. Don't immediately assume the mechanic is at fault.

With that being said, once a joint is torqued properly (meaning to the correct spec and in the proper pattern if more than one bolt is involved - like heads), then you should never need to retorque the fasteners again. Vehicles are designed that way. People don't even change oil anymore. I'd hate to see what happens if they needed to retighten everything periodically. It certainly will not hurt to retorque everything. But, some joints relax and lose more torque than you would think. You might mistake that "natural" loss for something that is coming loose. You should check lug nuts after a short while after reinstalling the wheel since the wheel may not seat completely on the hub. When you drive, the wheel may shift and lose torque on the lugnuts.

Lock washers, loctite, nylon nuts, etc. (torque retention features) are not really necessary - in my experience. They are more like belt and suspenders. A properly designed joint will not require them. There are certain occasions were you can't avoid them. However, in the real world, you cannot control everything. So, its a good idea just to have them. Lock washers seem to create more problems than they fix.

dhawke98 - What do you mean the alignment is biased to the right? The alignment specs are equal left to right. If you mean the vehicle is pulling right, it may be due to tires design. Make sure they are inflated properly. If it still pulls right, you can have the alignment shop set right hand caster about 0.2 degrees higher than the left side. If I remember correctly, that should compensate for the drift - assuming nothing else is wrong.

[dhawke98]

LOL, the car has been pulling right since 250-500 miles. That's why I went through abritration and they are replacing the front end and tires. The rack has been replaced, caster can't be adjusted because it is maxed out. Tires have been swapped, pressures changed (tend to run about 30psi all the way round), brakes have been checked for dragging...
Someone else here at one time had said the FMC specs for alignment aren't very good and I think they said a good shop could make them better and ensure that the alignment was neutrally biased. I just haven't been able to find that posting.

No matter what though, I love my MM!

[Petrograde]

Warpath,.. I basically agree with your last post. I am a helicopter mechanic, so I am used to torquing everything, and using loctite, nylon fasteners, and safety wire. Since cars don't fly (normally :P) they dont really need that level of attention. lol

I still torque my hardware, it's what I'm used to doing,.. if I don't do it; I don't feel like I did the job correctly!

Tom

[Warpath]

I torque everything too. But, only when I put it together. I reread my post and I don't think I said not to torque everything. I actually stated the opposite.

Anyway, you may be right. Having a blade come off at 20k ft would suck. But, next time you take an off ramp at max speed or you are flying ;) down the highway, think about how much it would suck to have a front control arm come off. Just hope you don't dart into on coming traffic. Both aircraft and cars are just as important.

[Petrograde]

LOL.. true,... you may end up doing a 120 mph cartwheel,.... but,.. you can't pull a broken aircraft over on a cloud. hehe!

given the choice: I'd rather crash in a car than a helicopter... It may be the safest way to fly,.. but, not the safest thing to crash in! lol.

no harm. no foul.

Tom

[Warpath]

OK - We agree. Cars are more forgiving. It would take some serious effort to get a car to crash into the ground - and the ground doesn't move. What I learned from watching TV is if I find myself plummiting (sp?) towards earth in an aircraft, all I have to do is to jump out right before impact. Bugs Bunny taught me well.

[Petrograde]

:lol: I hope I don't have to try that!

[deerejoe]

IMHO: I believe weight distribution (front to rear), cornering habits with high speeds and incorrect tire pressure contribute as much if not more than minimal mis-alignment of the front end.

Width of tires can also contribute to un-even wear of front tires.

The early posts regarding front end alignment pointed to dealer specs. not being uniform from dealer to dealer.
Numbers were posted that clearly showed a difference from one source to another. One was left with the feeling that you just had to try each set of specs. and see what resulted if you could find an alignment source that would not damage your wheels during the process.

I opted to run the car until I could visibly see un-even wear.
Probably not the smart thing to do but better than taking the chance on wheel damage from aligning efforts.

Years ago, I ran wide, off-set wheels/tires on my '69 Ply. GTX without any undue problems of un-even tire wear.
Todays rubber compounds and our HEAVIER vehicle weight must have some impact on wear factors.

[dhawke98]

Thank you for the clarification on the alignment values. As for driving habits, in Phoenix, there aren't that many curves etc. My drive to work has 1 left turn in 32 miles. Drive home, 1 right turn... so I don't think my cornering has anything to do with it. Maybe it was that u-turn (only at 5mph) when i heard that loud POP the dealer still can't find ;)

[deerejoe]

dhawke98:

I'm not too enamored with the aluminum front suspension either.
The use of aluminum is probably to save net weight. Although, the trade-off from steel components is not without consequence.

I believe alignment will always be a high maintenance issue with this type of front end. But then Ford is not overly concerned as it directs more service work to the dealer. IMHO.

[dhawke98]

I was talking with a guy recently who has a Kenny Brown Cobra and was suggesting that there is also the tube steel kit for the front end of our cars too. I haven't really looked as yet. Do you know anything about that?

[deerejoe]

dhawke98:

I know nothing beyond this MM...and NOT much on it either!!!!
That's why I find this site SO valuable for information.
It will make you SMART and FAST on the draw!!

[BillyGman]

Originally posted by Warpath
OK - What I learned from watching TV is if I find myself plummiting (sp?) towards earth in an aircraft, all I have to do is to jump out right before impact. Bugs Bunny taught me well.

.....yeah, and don't forget that famous quote from Bugs in another episode...."Good thing for us the plane had AIR brakes"

anywho, I fully understand what PETRO was talking about. If you get into an accident w/a car, there's a good possibility that it will be just a fender bender, and that you'll live. But if you have an accident w/an aircraft, it's very close to 100% definate that you'll die. Especially in a helicopter since it has NO wings. Once that rotor and blades stop turning, it will fall to the earth like a rock. No such thing as a "crash landing, or "emergency landing" in that situation. You're done(yes, I'm also a helicopter mechanic:) )

So an aircraft needs much more attention to it's maintainence than any car does.;)