Supercharger newbie needs advice

[Bill Lalk]

I have tried to do my homework here and the more I read the more confused I get. I am an old mechanic with no SC experience. I am trying to decide what the best type and brand of SC to buy for my stock 04' MM. I want a bolt on, plug and play kit. Please give me your opinions. I was going to buy the DR $5k Vortech until I read things here for an hour.
2nd question: What, if anything, do I need to add along with the SC for the car to function properly.
Please advise and thanks,
BILL

[sailsmen]

The A to A is simple and at 10psi a reliable system. There is an endless supply of air to cool.

I have owned a water to air and A to A.

A to A has no intercooler pump and no heat exchanger. A to A is the easiest to install.

[ImpalaSlayer]

this is a very easy question. if plug and play is what you want with a factory fit and finish then you need a trilogy kit. dont look any where else if you want an easy install

[Bill Lalk]

I am familier with Trilogy, what is A to A?
Sorry - air to air - duh!

[Bill Lalk]

Who sells the Trilogy?

[ImpalaSlayer]

alternative auto, or you can order direct i think.

[Peter]

Who sells the Trilogy?
Call Jerry Barnes

1 (313) 336 6135

[Zack]

I was going to buy the DR $5k Vortech until I read things here for an hour.
BILL

:rofl: :laugh:

Dude you made my day. :banana2:

[LANDY]

The air to air is a good kit if your planning to upgrade to higher HP levels. All you got to do is change the blower.
The trilogy is a more fit and finish kit that looks and performs real good.
To make a vortech run with a trilogy you will need gears and torque converter.
At the end of the day all it matters is how far you wanna go.?

[DOOM]

Trilogy pretty much uses all ford parts as well!

Replacement parts would probably be easier to get a hold of than vortec.

You can buy direct from trilogy motorsports.

Over 220 trilogy kits have been sold!

Tne kit includes EVERYTHING you need!

[MCAT]

Trilogy is an easy weekend project as long as you read through your instructions, get preped with the right tools, spark pugs, thread locker.....ect.

[FormulaMarauder]

:rofl: :laugh:

Dude you made my day. :banana2:
I laughed at this myself. Take it from Zack, I think he has gone through all the blowers at one point or another and has been up and down both Barnes (Trilogy) and Reinhart (Vortech)

[sailsmen]

........To make a vortech run with a trilogy you will need gears and torque converter.....

Incorrect. Stock MM plus Trilogy runs same 1/4 times as Stock MM plus Reinhart.

Vortec vs Eaton Real World Data!
One MM was Vortec and one MM was Eaton. Both had same gears and tires. Vortec 10psi and Eaton 12.5psi. Vortec 3,500 PI. Vortec had 55,000 miles and Eaton 15,000.

I line up next to a beautiful red MM. This is the first MM I have ever lined up against. I get in the zone.

My r/t is .091 to his .144, ahead by .053, yahoo! Then I open up, my 60’ is 1.867 to his 2.151, ahead by .284. I feel the S/C winding up, my 330’ is 5.385 to his 5.681, ahead by .296. I know he is got to be there but I don’t know where. Then the 1/8 is 8.285 to his 8.590 ahead by .305.

I know that red beauty is charging on me, my 1,000’ is 10.832 to his 11.130, he closed to .298! Fortunately the ¼ comes up and my ET is 12.985 @104.72 to his 13.290 @104.31.

Wow, I crossed first by .3580!


Timeslipe data from a Vortec and Eaton. Same gears, tires, exhaust, TC, Eaton 12.5psi and Vortec10psi. Can you pick which is which?

1.704 5.089 7.942 85.53 10.438 12.554 106.67
1.741 5.096 7.924 86.4 10.399 12.501 107.33
1.702 5.046 7.886 85.7 10.383 12.511 105.89
1.691 5.025 7.852 86.34 10.328 12.426 107.56
1.745 5.096 7.883 87.13 10.329 12.391 109.4
1.748 5.114 7.907 86.9 10.358 12.427 109.03
1.72 5.047 7.822 88.15 10.272 12.333 109.52
1.716 5.019 7.79 87.37 10.237 12.3 109.38
1.744 5.098 7.894 86.79 10.355 12.431 108.69
1.69 5.221 8.051 86.58 10.514 12.921 108.65

I cannot tell which is my Cent and which is the Eaton. What this proves it that from a dead stop by the 60' there is no measurable difference. Maybe there is a difference for the first 20'?

I have owned a Cent and an Eaton. I have over 130K on my MM of which 90K is with a Cent. Another member has over 240K of which over 120K is Cent.
The purpose of my post is to dispel some of the myths about a PD vs Cent. I posted real world data. FYI, A stock MM with only a Cent and a stock MM with only a Trilogy run identical 1/4 mile times. That is with the Cent having an OEM TC. For several years the lowest 60' time was held by a Cent. In my post above with the 1/4 data both the Cent and the PD had the same TC with the same 60'. In the race against the other PD MM it was in the 1st 1/8 of the 1/4 that I gained but I lost in the last 1/8 of the 1/4.

If you compare a Dyno Graph of a Cent to a PD you will think for the Cent I had better open the door and push with my foot to get it rolling and for the PD I better get a 30 speed trans and learn to shift really well. Neither is true because a Dyno graph is just that a display of a measurement.

In the past a lot of baloney has been posted on this board. One member went so far as to compare the Dyno Graph of a PD vs a Cent. Except the Cent had a belt slippage issue resutling in 380RWHP, oddly same RWHP as the PD. When the exact same Cent got it's belt fixed on the same Dyno it generated 472RWHP. Guess what this member did not go back and make the Dyno Graph comparison based on the 472RWHP.

"On a 90 degree day with the air on, An eaton/Trilogy is completely USELESS

This is the only saving grace to an Air/Air Kit...never more than 10-12 above ambient.

I was so pissed off yesterday when driving the car I damn near parked it and removed all the blower stuff."
"Agree 100%. My car SUCKS right now! It's great for helping out pushing the car under normal load with the air on, but forget all about performance! Weak sauce..."
"car only blows the tires off if i want it to, honestly, i think youd be better with a centri in FL anyway since my IATs are through the roof in the heat around here. i was barely able to catch a 3v gt."

I am sure the heat issues w/ a PD can be addressed by a bigger heat exchanger and a bigger reservoir, higher volume IC pump, etc.

[SpartaPerformance]

I laughed at this myself. Take it from Zack, I think he has gone through all the blowers at one point or another and has been up and down both Barnes (Trilogy) and Reinhart (Vortech)

I agree Trilogy would be the bet route.

[sailsmen]

I laughed at this myself. Take it from Zack, I think he has gone through all the blowers at one point or another and has been up and down both Barnes (Trilogy) and Reinhart (Vortech)

And the rest of the story, neither Jerrry Barnes the owner of Trilogy or Dennis Reinhart the owner of Reinhart will speak to Zack.

If the above is incorrect than please correct me.:rolleyes:

[Bradley G]

Someone get him some keys to each , thats what I did Trilogy FTMFW!:P

[Motorhead350]

Roots style is more dependable. Procharger, Vortech and Paxton provide more power, but take it from me they are frustrating to deal with. If I had to do it all over again I would go with roots.

[SC Cheesehead]

Either route you go, you're going to enjoy the extra power achieved from a S/C.

Have agree though about the Trilogy, prolly the closest thing you can come to "plug 'n play."

[LANDY]

O
Incorrect. Stock MM plus Trilogy runs same 1/4 times as Stock MM plus Reinhart.

Vortec vs Eaton Real World Data!
One MM was Vortec and one MM was Eaton. Both had same gears and tires. Vortec 10psi and Eaton 12.5psi. Vortec 3,500 PI. Vortec had 55,000 miles and Eaton 15,000.

I line up next to a beautiful red MM. This is the first MM I have ever lined up against. I get in the zone.

My r/t is .091 to his .144, ahead by .053, yahoo! Then I open up, my 60’ is 1.867 to his 2.151, ahead by .284. I feel the S/C winding up, my 330’ is 5.385 to his 5.681, ahead by .296. I know he is got to be there but I don’t know where. Then the 1/8 is 8.285 to his 8.590 ahead by .305.

I know that red beauty is charging on me, my 1,000’ is 10.832 to his 11.130, he closed to .298! Fortunately the ¼ comes up and my ET is 12.985 @104.72 to his 13.290 @104.31.

Wow, I crossed first by .3580!


Timeslipe data from a Vortec and Eaton. Same gears, tires, exhaust, TC, Eaton 12.5psi and Vortec10psi. Can you pick which is which?

1.704 5.089 7.942 85.53 10.438 12.554 106.67
1.741 5.096 7.924 86.4 10.399 12.501 107.33
1.702 5.046 7.886 85.7 10.383 12.511 105.89
1.691 5.025 7.852 86.34 10.328 12.426 107.56
1.745 5.096 7.883 87.13 10.329 12.391 109.4
1.748 5.114 7.907 86.9 10.358 12.427 109.03
1.72 5.047 7.822 88.15 10.272 12.333 109.52
1.716 5.019 7.79 87.37 10.237 12.3 109.38
1.744 5.098 7.894 86.79 10.355 12.431 108.69
1.69 5.221 8.051 86.58 10.514 12.921 108.65

I cannot tell which is my Cent and which is the Eaton. What this proves it that from a dead stop by the 60' there is no measurable difference. Maybe there is a difference for the first 20'?

I have owned a Cent and an Eaton. I have over 130K on my MM of which 90K is with a Cent. Another member has over 240K of which over 120K is Cent.
The purpose of my post is to dispel some of the myths about a PD vs Cent. I posted real world data. FYI, A stock MM with only a Cent and a stock MM with only a Trilogy run identical 1/4 mile times. That is with the Cent having an OEM TC. For several years the lowest 60' time was held by a Cent. In my post above with the 1/4 data both the Cent and the PD had the same TC with the same 60'. In the race against the other PD MM it was in the 1st 1/8 of the 1/4 that I gained but I lost in the last 1/8 of the 1/4.

If you compare a Dyno Graph of a Cent to a PD you will think for the Cent I had better open the door and push with my foot to get it rolling and for the PD I better get a 30 speed trans and learn to shift really well. Neither is true because a Dyno graph is just that a display of a measurement.

In the past a lot of baloney has been posted on this board. One member went so far as to compare the Dyno Graph of a PD vs a Cent. Except the Cent had a belt slippage issue resutling in 380RWHP, oddly same RWHP as the PD. When the exact same Cent got it's belt fixed on the same Dyno it generated 472RWHP. Guess what this member did not go back and make the Dyno Graph comparison based on the 472RWHP.

"On a 90 degree day with the air on, An eaton/Trilogy is completely USELESS

This is the only saving grace to an Air/Air Kit...never more than 10-12 above ambient.

I was so pissed off yesterday when driving the car I damn near parked it and removed all the blower stuff."
"Agree 100%. My car SUCKS right now! It's great for helping out pushing the car under normal load with the air on, but forget all about performance! Weak sauce..."
"car only blows the tires off if i want it to, honestly, i think youd be better with a centri in FL anyway since my IATs are through the roof in the heat around here. i was barely able to catch a 3v gt."

I am sure the heat issues w/ a PD can be addressed by a bigger heat exchanger and a bigger reservoir, higher volume IC pump, etc.you can't compare two cars that have 4.10s and a 3500 stall.
Now slap on a trilogy (nothing else) slap on a vortech(nothing else) as long as the trilogy keeps traction it will be first at the end of the 1/4 mile. Don't tell me I'm incorrect I have driven a vortech without gears and converter, Is a dog off the line. Now a trilogy right off idle is neck snapping. I have a Vortech and I love it but I'm also realistic.

[LANDY]

The prime example is justbob he just did 12.3 in the 1320. With a trilogy stock converter and gears. A centri by itself on our cars would never do that.
I'm not staring the pot here. This has been proven over and over.

[GAMike]

As Bradley has said here.... Come to a meet near you. Go for a ride in both. Only you can make the call, as you have not shared you priorities or specific requirements for a supercharger.... We can only speculate why you want to modify your Marauder here at this point:

That said here are some questions.......

What type of driving is your Marauder used for??? Highway? Around town?? Weekends/racing???

How do you drive? Leadfoot? Normal?? Reserved???

What attributes are important consideration when modding? Try ranking these:
-Price?
-Looks?
-HP per $ spent?
-Reliability?
-Access to a location that can work on your car should you have issues and not be able to handle it yourself?
-Resale?

This may help you come to your own conclusion. I have driven both, and when both are installed and set up properly, are a hoot to drive. Good luck with your choice!:burnout:

[CWright]

+1 On what GaMike said above! I have DR's A to A and love my set up along with kooks headers. You can see my RWHP in my signature. If you are patient and do your homework, as it seems you are doing that now, then you can by what you feel best fits you. I HIGHLY recommend driving both before you make your decision. Dennis did a great job for me and I was very pleased. I am sure Jerry will do the same. Which ever way you decide to go you will enjoy the fun. GaMike(Trilogy) has driven my car(A to A) and I have driven his. I like both and I am sure he would say the same. He defintely gets me off the line but top end is a different story!:D

Good luck with your decision!:beer:

[sailsmen]

Oyou can't compare two cars that have 4.10s and a 3500 stall.
Now slap on a trilogy (nothing else) slap on a vortech(nothing else) as long as the trilogy keeps traction it will be first at the end of the 1/4 mile. Don't tell me I'm incorrect I have driven a vortech without gears and converter, Is a dog off the line. Now a trilogy right off idle is neck snapping. I have a Vortech and I love it but I'm also realistic.

You are WRONG. Both the Trilogy & Reinhart plus stock ran 12.9-13.3 depending on temps at the track.

YOU WERE NOT HERE WHEN THE TWO SYSTEMS WERE BEING DEVELOPED. The stock Trilogy develops ~380RWHP vs the stock Vortec that develops ~450RWHP. It is RWHP that wins in the 1/4 mile. See post #42 http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65624&page=3

Did you drive the Trilogy at WOT for 1,320'? Have you raced againest Trilogy MM's? When I raced at MM day at the track with more Trilogy's than Vortecs the 2 fastest times were Vortec. My Vortec and another that ran an 11.6 in 2005 when it was over 100* outside on a stock engine.

[jstevens]

True, true. I have never driven a trilogy or vortech before purchasing mine. Stop light to stop light is a blast.

The system does not develop the hp. The tuner does. If you tune it crazy, you;ll get crazy hp.

[FormulaMarauder]

I've done my homework on both. As I see it, you cant go wrong with either unit.
I've had P1SC ATI Prochargers on my two Firebird Formula's. MP112 roots on Lightning and SLP GTX alike.

I was going to go the route of roots since its such a heavy car, but did my homework with the Reinhart Vortech kits.
Vortech sells thousands of kits a year.....PERIOD.

Quote from DOOM: Replacement parts would probably be easier to get a hold of than vortec.
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/
http://www.reinhartperformance.com/marauder.html
Now, I like Doomie and all, but his above quote is a little misleading. Vortech is a multimillion dollar company that has been around for decades. I can order any part, belt or accessory from them and get it shipped to me overnight.
Quote from DOOM:
You can buy direct from trilogy motorsports. www.trilogymotorsports.com (try getting tons of information or ordering from here, not gonna happen)True, you can also buy direct from Vortechand order parts online at 3am or over the weekend. If you need Marauder specific custom parts, you call Dennis Reinhart. He has bent over backwards for me on MANY occasions, and I didn't even buy the kit from him, I got it from a nice fella here named Blackmobile. I call Dennis' cell at all hours days or nights, and he never hesitates to offer advice. I complained to Jerry years ago that his site was poor, and he agreed. Economy sucks, he had to let his computer site girl go years back, so that's understandable.

Quote from DOOM:
Over 220 trilogy kits have been sold!
Probably tens of thousand Vortechs are on the road.

I have 4.10's and a stall convertor, Kook's exhaust and run a 12.02 in the 1/4 with the help of the Vortech Air to Air kit. :eek: This Friday with cooler temps, I WILL hit the 11's. (Fingers crossed :D )That's with no weight reduction, full interior. My engine is completely stock. Never have any covers been removed. I know I'm pushing the boundries with my engine at over 500hp, and am planning a full forged unit soon, or an Aluminator. And I can upgrade my blower for more power, not so w/the Trilogy.

I'm not knocking Trilogy, i'm really not. If I were to get a second MM (which I'm planning) it WILL have a Trilogy on it, just so I know firsthand the differences, maybe I can find a used TS (yeah, right). What I do know is that they are each badass in their own right.

READ THIS. http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55176

It is my writeup on installation as well as petdocs installation on page 5 of the same thread. It will give you GREAT insight. What I really like about the Vortech is that even if I get rid of the blower, I still have the neck snapping 4.10's and 3,500 stall convertor. If you remove the Trilogy, you are stuck with the slug 3.55s and poor launches.

These are the reasons why I went the Vortech route. And to this day, I don't regret it one bit.

Good luck on your decision, either way is a win-win.

[LANDY]

Billy I'm sorry you can't see the facts here. I don't like to argue. You are making this thread what is not supposed to be. I'm out.
For the OP. You will like either s/c kit.

[hotford]

Who cares which one, all i know it's going on one of the best 4 door sadens ever built.:argue:

Yes American Muscle. :banana2:

Which ever way you go I'm sure your gonna love the car more,the grin will be from ear to ear.:beer:

[justbob]

"Agree 100%. My car SUCKS right now! It's great for helping out pushing the car under normal load with the air on, but forget all about performance! Weak sauce..."


LOL. ^^^ I wrote that and STILL MEAN IT!!!

My caris flat out awesome since the tune in anything under 70*, above that, forget about it... Sure, it ran a 12.3, but that took 55*, headlight out, 3.2 pulley, conical air filter, MAFia, lightning MAF, Jmod, converters cut off, a really good dyno tune and Damn good DR's. Too many things outside the Trilogy box. Stock T ran me easy 12.9's all day and night however.

This car can be SCARY on cold pavement for even me, the guy that knows this car inside and out for over 6 years!! Take it easy is all i'm sayin.

About the parts though, I agree you can next day air, but I can just go on down to Ford and pick it up :)

I wouldn't mind trying many other kits personally, but to wipe the grin off that I have now might be hard.

[Bluerauder]

Either route you go, you're going to enjoy the extra power achieved from a S/C.

Have agree though about the Trilogy, prolly the closest thing you can come to "plug 'n play."

Personally, I like the look of the Trilogy install .... especially the polished version. JMHO.

lIaGH40m7s0

[guspech750]

That video is awesome. My first time seeing it!!

[jstevens]

Someone is mistaken. You can't upgrade a trilogy? Ummm....ever hear of a pulley.

[FordNut]

I've had both a centrifugal and a twin screw. I liked both setups, but here's my opinion.

The ProCharger D1SC with DR's Air-Air intercooler and pipes was a good power maker. I would have kept that setup but had belt problems one too many times. Most people who get a base kit and make 400-425 rwhp don't have problems, but when you start spinning the blower faster and making more power there are usually some belt problems. Sometimes the belt will shred and fragments can take out the alternator, the blower shaft seal, or the tensioner.

The Whipple I currently have is basically the same as the "Eaton conversion" kit that several people are running, which is very similar to the Trilogy kit except you have to piece it together yourself instead of getting it all in a package deal. I love the power it makes, but the reliability is what sold me on it. The blower has a dedicated drive belt instead of using a single belt to drive the blower along with all the rest of the accessories. The base Trilogy kit will make about the same power as the base centrifugal kit. The Trilogy or Eaton setup is a much more involved installation than the centrifugal.

A factor that may come into consideration is a future sale. You will never get the return on investment by selling the car with the supercharger installed. The best return will be gained by removing the SC kit and returning the car to (near) stock, then sell the car and SC kit separately. That being said, the centrifugal setup is by far easier to remove and return the car to stock.

[Spectragod]

Myself, I went with the twin screw Trilogy offered, I am glad I made that choice, not a lot of upgrades past that. I make good power, I do see a difference when temps outside are high, I think that it could be overcome, but that's another thread.

A couple of shots of my DTR and a dyno sheet, power is instant, what more could you want?

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=59&pictureid=817

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=59&pictureid=819

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=59&pictureid=478

[FormulaMarauder]

Someone is mistaken. You can't upgrade a trilogy? Ummm....ever hear of a pulley.

I stand by my statement 100% A pulley swap is just that...a pulley swap, not a blower upgrade. You can change a pulley on I believe every blower available.
The Vortech kit you can go from a S Trim to a T Trim, to a JT Trim, (NOVI 1200, 1500, etc....)

[justbob]

Porting?????

[justbob]

Correct me if I am wrong here, but can't you upgrade to a whipple with just swapping out the timing cover for a cobra? I thought you could??

[Pat]

Bill,

As you can read people are passionate about their superchargers. That should tell you that whatever brand or installation you get will make your car perform a whole lot better.

I have a Reinhart Engineering Paxton Novi (non-intercooled) centrifugal kit making
10 lbs of boost. I bought this kit because of cost, $3900, versus boost 10 Lbs.
I took the car to Florida for the install and tune and that was a good decision because I'm not very adept at this sort of thing.

The kit has been reliable and performs as advertised. My rear wheel horsepower is 380, that's 135 more ponies than the stock 245 HP.

What you may want to consider is the sequencing of your proposed mods. If you are going to do the supercharger then do it first (the tune usually comes with it).
Then see if you want more, such as gears, torque converters, headers, widen wheels, etc. Also consider an installation and dyno tune from a shop near you in Wisconsin, I believe.

Regards,

[ntd]

I have a DR Paxton kit that I bought used and missing some components. Dealing with Dennis I had no problems he was very helpful and I only bought a MAF sensor from him I call that good customer service. To the OP try finding some supercharged member local to you and ask for a ride get a feel for the differences between the two kits, see what fits your needs best. If your ever in Michigan or willing to take a ride out to Michigan hit me up I might let you drive;)

[jstevens]

You will be happy with whatever choice you make. Yes, I do see a difference with temperature but I think you'll see that with whatever choice you make.

Lets face it, our cars love cool air.
I love the cold air.

[Marauder131]

:rofl: :laugh:

Dude you made my day. :banana2:

Times Two!

[sailsmen]

Billy I'm sorry you can't see the facts here. I don't like to argue. You are making this thread what is not supposed to be. I'm out.
For the OP. You will like either s/c kit.

No, you are BLIND to the facts, I post real world empirical data, including that stock MM plus Trilogy or plus Reinhart equals 12.9-13.3.

There is a lot of Bull posted on this board based on Myths including a Dyno run on a Vortec with a slipping belt that just happened to make the same RWHP as a Trilogy and when the slipping belt was fixed it made 472RWHP, but that higher RWHP was not posted. I have over 220 passes on the track and have been here before there was a Trilogy or Reinhart S/C, so I saw all the posts on the developments of both kits.

Trilogy at one point made a sales pitch best performacne buy, all you need is a Trilogy.
I pointed out with gears, tune, 3,500 stall and headers people were going 13.4, similar time for 1/2 the price. Trilogy then came out with a different pulley and started pushing 4:10's.

Taking a ride in a Trilogy at WOT for 3-4 seconds and comparing it to WOT for 1,320' is not facts. I have raced against half a dozen MM's. Look at all the Dyno charts and take all the rides you want to. At the track it will come down to the driver every time.

I would not hesitate to put either kit on my MM or buy one with either kit. There have been a number of awesome MM's for sale recently with a Trilogy that I would not hesitate to buy.

[Marauder131]

No, you are BLIND to the facts, I post real world empirical data, including that stock MM plus Trilogy or plus Reinhart equals 12.9-13.3.

There is a lot of Bull posted on this board based on Myths including a Dyno run on a Vortec with a slipping belt that just happened to make the same RWHP as a Trilogy and when the slipping belt was fixed it made 472RWHP, but that higher RWHP was not posted. I have over 220 passes on the track and have been here before there was a Trilogy or Reinhart S/C, so I saw all the posts on the developments of both kits.

Trilogy at one point made a sales pitch best performacne buy, all you need is a Trilogy.
I pointed out with gears, tune, 3,500 stall and headers people were going 13.4, similar time for 1/2 the price. Trilogy then came out with a different pulley and started pushing 4:10's.

Taking a ride in a Trilogy at WOT for 3-4 seconds and comparing it to WOT for 1,320' is not facts. I have raced against half a dozen MM's. Look at all the Dyno charts and take all the rides you want to. At the track it will come down to the driver every time.

I would not hesitate to put either kit on my MM or buy one with either kit. There have been a number of awesome MM's for sale recently with a Trilogy that I would not hesitate to buy.

Dyno sheets and track times can be of assistance to form an impression, depending on what a person is aspiring to do with their car. My personal opinion, is that if one wants a power adder for the street, go Trilogy. The bottom end torque makes it a more enjoyable car. On the street, it's not about track times or stop watches, it's how the car feels. On the highway, the Vortech has great top end, but on the street, it's somewhat boring to drive. I know, I have one. And I have gears and a converter, not just a centri alone.

[Bradley G]

Best post evar!
Nice to see someone being honest, I've had my butt kicked my many Centriffies :P
Dyno sheets and track times can be of assistance to form an impression, depending on what a person is aspiring to do with their car. My personal opinion, is that if one wants a power adder for the street, go Trilogy. The bottom end torque makes it a more enjoyable car. On the street, it's not about track times or stop watches, it's how the car feels. On the highway, the Vortech has great top end, but on the street, it's somewhat boring to drive. I know, I have one. And I have gears and a converter, not just a centri alone.

[jflave]

You can't go wrong either way but for me the 1320 ET is the only # that counts. HP/TQ #'s can be deceiving & the driver does come into play at the track. :dunno:

[Zack]

If you want a Vortech, you have to go to Florida and wait with a shotgun while it is getting installed. If you go mail order, forget about it.

If you want a Trilogy, it shows up when its supposed to in 3 boxes.

Shouldnt be that difficult a decision.

[jflave]

I thought this was about SC'ers. I found Florida to be a warm & loving place, wish it was closer. Didn't need a shotgun & i'll be going back. :)

[FordNut]

I thought this was about SC'ers. I found Florida to be a warm & loving place, wish it was closer. Didn't need a shotgun & i'll be going back. :)

I always carry a pistol, shotguns take up too much space.

[LANDY]

I always carry a pistol, shotguns take up too much space.
That's why we have big trunks.

[babbage]

If you want a Vortech, you have to go to Florida and wait with a shotgun while it is getting installed. If you go mail order, forget about it.

If you want a Trilogy, it shows up when its supposed to in 3 boxes.

Shouldnt be that difficult a decision.

Remember the last person here to order Trilogy kit (wife birthday present) got everything EXCEPT the blower. (was on backorder -- 2-3 weeks later it came)

[Bradley G]

Wow! that hardly ever happens!
I'll bet the paying customer has some input on that.

Remember the last person here to order Trilogy kit (wife birthday present) got everything EXCEPT the blower. (was on backorder -- 2-3 weeks later it came)

[Motorhead350]

Whatever you choose be ready to maintain it. It's worth it though.

[FormulaMarauder]

Whatever you choose be ready to maintain it. It's worth it though.
What has gone wrong with your unit? Besides going to a smaller pulley, I haven't touched mine since the day I bolted it on :confused:

[DOOM]

What has gone wrong with your unit?

That's what she said. :depress: :alone:

[CBT]

That's what she said. :depress: :alone:

Muhahaaahahaa!!

[jstevens]

Now thats frick'en funny.
Thats why I bought a trilogized MM. No worrys.

[FormulaMarauder]

Thats why I bought a trilogized MM. No worrys.

Ironic you say that. It's the same reason I bought my Vortech.

[CWright]

ironic you say that. It's the same reason i bought my vortech.

^^^^+1^^^^

[Zack]

Ironic you say that. It's the same reason I bought my Vortech.

Vortechs work well until you make over 12psi and 500hp.

Then you have to get the belt perfectly aligned so it wont jump off and shred on you.

[BODYMAN]

Vortechs work well until you make over 12psi and 500hp.

Then you have to get the belt perfectly aligned so it wont jump off and shred on you.

+1 Yes very true This is the#1 problem with a single belt set up. When ever I put on a new belt I use a straight edge to make sure all the pulleys are on the same plane. High boost plumbing can be a issue also.

[BODYMAN]

Oyou can't compare two cars that have 4.10s and a 3500 stall.
Now slap on a trilogy (nothing else) slap on a vortech(nothing else) as long as the trilogy keeps traction it will be first at the end of the 1/4 mile. Don't tell me I'm incorrect I have driven a vortech without gears and converter, Is a dog off the line. Now a trilogy right off idle is neck snapping. I have a Vortech and I love it but I'm also realistic.

I can say 1st hand this is 100% correct. example I had a KB MM no convertor & only 4.10's best time was 13.48 s-trim dog from the line. KB#1 had a 3400 stall it best time was 12.7 I beleive both cars were within 8-9 rwhp. roughly 7 tenths diff. I have a vortech and like it alot but true.

[scruff]

If you want a Vortech, you have to go to Florida and wait with a shotgun while it is getting installed. If you go mail order, forget about it.

If you want a Trilogy, it shows up when its supposed to in 3 boxes.

Shouldnt be that difficult a decision.
X 2 that:bows:

[Marauder131]

Oyou can't compare two cars that have 4.10s and a 3500 stall.
Now slap on a trilogy (nothing else) slap on a vortech(nothing else) as long as the trilogy keeps traction it will be first at the end of the 1/4 mile. Don't tell me I'm incorrect I have driven a vortech without gears and converter, Is a dog off the line. Now a trilogy right off idle is neck snapping. I have a Vortech and I love it but I'm also realistic.

Agreed....

[sailsmen]

Agreed....
You are agreeing to Bull Crap. Facts are Facts. Both Trilogy and Vortec on OEM MM ran 12.9 to 13.3.
I posted real world data. Spew your Bull Crap fact less opinons all you want.:bs:

09-25-2003, 09:44 AM
Lidio
Supporting Vendor

"Most of this past summer the # one car was completely stock with the exception of the Trilogy blower kit making about 9.5psi of boost. The exhaust, trans and 3.55 gears where stock. In the warm air it would go 13.30 to 13.45 at the ¼ mile at about 104ish. When I managed to get to a track in the early spring when it was under 65 degrees and the traction was perfect it would run a bunch of 12.95’s and lots of 13.00’s at about 107mph ish. It really likes it when its under 65 degrees. This is all with the stock rear tiers as well."
"For those looking to do potentially one major bolt-on… look no further then the Trilogy intercooled blower kit. With only it, a stock Marauder will go from an average of mid 15’s in the ¼ mile to mid to low 13’s. And you’ll never know its there till you step into it. By retaining the stock torque converter the “around the town” drivability is very, very stock like and sedate."

Keep the Bull Crap http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/ist2_336829-bullsh-t.jpg (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/18751) flowing it's always good for a laugh!:lol:

[Dennis Reinhart]

You are agreeing to Bull Crap. Facts are Facts. Both Trilogy and Vortec on OEM MM ran 12.9 to 13.3.
I posted real world data. Spew your Bull Crap fact less opinons all you want.:bs:

09-25-2003, 09:44 AM
Lidio
Supporting Vendor

"Most of this past summer the # one car was completely stock with the exception of the Trilogy blower kit making about 9.5psi of boost. The exhaust, trans and 3.55 gears where stock. In the warm air it would go 13.30 to 13.45 at the ¼ mile at about 104ish. When I managed to get to a track in the early spring when it was under 65 degrees and the traction was perfect it would run a bunch of 12.95’s and lots of 13.00’s at about 107mph ish. It really likes it when its under 65 degrees. This is all with the stock rear tiers as well."
"For those looking to do potentially one major bolt-on… look no further then the Trilogy intercooled blower kit. With only it, a stock Marauder will go from an average of mid 15’s in the ¼ mile to mid to low 13’s. And you’ll never know its there till you step into it. By retaining the stock torque converter the “around the town” drivability is very, very stock like and sedate."

Keep the Bull Crap flowing it's always good for a laugh!:lol:

Billy just ignore them, a bone stock Marauder with a Trilogy no tweaks, makes 360 maybe 370 RWHP a bone stock S trim will make 440, the Trilogy will get you aff the line and you will pass him at the qtr but of course they will look for a hiden nitrous bottle. Just send them a box of dreamcycles.:banana:

[-Matt-]

Im making 477 Hp (dyno'd) on a stock block with a s-trim vortech

[Dennis Reinhart]

Im making 477 Hp (dyno'd) on a stock block with a s-trim vortech
Very good Matt have they asked where you hid the bottle yet,:P

[MOTOWN]

this is an interesting thread, living in the Detroit area a few years back i met jerry barnes and he took me for a ride in his mm it was very strong right off the line, ive never had a chance to ride in a vortech mm yet, i love the simple install with the centrifical kit.

maybe we need a poll?? lol

[Marauder131]

You are agreeing to Bull Crap. Facts are Facts. Both Trilogy and Vortec on OEM MM ran 12.9 to 13.3.
I posted real world data. Spew your Bull Crap fact less opinons all you want.:bs:

09-25-2003, 09:44 AM
Lidio
Supporting Vendor

"Most of this past summer the # one car was completely stock with the exception of the Trilogy blower kit making about 9.5psi of boost. The exhaust, trans and 3.55 gears where stock. In the warm air it would go 13.30 to 13.45 at the ¼ mile at about 104ish. When I managed to get to a track in the early spring when it was under 65 degrees and the traction was perfect it would run a bunch of 12.95’s and lots of 13.00’s at about 107mph ish. It really likes it when its under 65 degrees. This is all with the stock rear tiers as well."
"For those looking to do potentially one major bolt-on… look no further then the Trilogy intercooled blower kit. With only it, a stock Marauder will go from an average of mid 15’s in the ¼ mile to mid to low 13’s. And you’ll never know its there till you step into it. By retaining the stock torque converter the “around the town” drivability is very, very stock like and sedate."

Keep the Bull Crap http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/ist2_336829-bullsh-t.jpg (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/18751) flowing it's always good for a laugh!:lol:

Perhaps explain precisely what I have said that is not legitimate. If you'll examine my posts within this thread, I stated that if one is venturing to have a car that is intended for street purposes, Trilogy is the way to go. The result will be a car that is more enjoyable, due to the greater bottom end torque and more immediate boost. For the track, there are other options one can consider, based on preference.

Roots and Centrifugal blowers have contrasting attributes by nature, which is indisputable. Dyno figures don't necessarily translate to the real world. I know, I've got 430 RWHP. Where is that power? Up high. I also have gears and a high stall, yet oddly enough, my car is still lacking off the line. Go figure. Without gears and the stall, I can only imagine. Would I make up ground on a Trilogy at the track? That may very well be the case, but it is not relevant, being mine is not a track car. I would also assert that air to air is less than effective when temperatures rise. It is less expensive and simpler than water to air, but less effective as well. When it is very cool out, without question, my car has loads of power. However, even slight rises in temperature have a notable impact on performance.

Ultimately, it depends on each individuals goals, pocket book and driving style. I do believe Vortech makes very good head units, to be sure. That said, based on my own experiences, I believe for a car with the curb weight and DOHC set up like the Marauder, a roots is better suited overall. Too each his own, though. The debate seems moot, considering what the original poster stated at the outset.

[sailsmen]

The 60' times tell a different story than the dyno graphs. A point of clairification Lidio advised the Trilogy MM #1 did have a Baumann Trans shift kit.

[MM03MOK]

I don't understand why it's so difficult to discuss this topic without mudslinging and bashing. It's really too bad. I like Heinz Ketchup over Hunt's Catsup...so there!