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View Full Version : My ET reduction from Kook's!!!



BillyGman
12-13-2003, 11:03 PM
Okay, some members here have questioned the validity of my practice of using the G-meter "G-tech" device to measure my results for the Mods that I've done to my car. Well, perhaps that's understandable. So I drove my car 150miles to get to a track to see what my car will now turn in the quartermile w/the Kook's exhaust installed.

Note that in this cool weather, I ran through the quartermile using that G-meter both BEFORE and AFTER I installed the Kook's headers and exhaust, and it indicated a .400 sec reduction in my ET. It was 13.9 sec before, and 13.5 sec after the installation. And that was confirmed at the track today. I ran three 13.5 ET's w/a 101 MPH trap speed on street tires. Not too bad for a N/A 4200 LB car........I'm very happy.:)

SergntMac
12-14-2003, 02:57 AM
Very good, Billy, congrats.

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 04:48 AM
MAC.......now if only I could buy myself a Supercharger for Christmas like you have in your car:D

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 05:32 AM
I also forgot to mention....for those of you who are interested, according to my "G-Tech" device, my Marauder now does 0-60 MPH in 4.9 seconds on the factory stock tires whereas before the Kook's installation it did 5.3 sec!!!(and yes,both 0-60MPH times were taken in temperatures in the upper 40's).

Amsoil_Dealer
12-14-2003, 05:45 AM
That's pretty impressive.

TAF
12-14-2003, 07:19 AM
Way to go, Billy!!!:up:

More proof that this car LOVES cold temps!

CRUZTAKER
12-14-2003, 07:45 AM
Thanks Billy....I am very psyched for my install!

Marauderer
12-14-2003, 07:49 AM
Billy,

The nay sayers about the G-tech device simply don't have experience with it in my book; one of those "I think therefore I know" syndromes or maybe they just had a bad experience with an older version in the past.

I have the latest G-tech Pro Competition and its results have been proven by multiple sources that have recently been to the track as well; it's all about physics baby!

I do ignore the HP calculators however as I make regular trips to the dyno, but the ET's are solid.

The only thing is that I kind of wish it was broken :) My best time berfore the S/C was 14.944 or something in that neighborhood. But now, after the S/C I have tried it twice (no more due to cold weather and constant bad road conditions) and the best time I have had was a 14.0 :) But man, was it a wild ride! 14.0 isn't so bad when half of it was with tire spin :)

jgc61sr2002
12-14-2003, 10:04 AM
Billy - Congrats nice numbers.:D :up:

sailsmen
12-14-2003, 10:47 AM
Great times Billy! Congrats on the fastest N/A time.

What was the temp/humidity?

Did you have any trouble hooking up?

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by TAF
Way to go, Billy!!!:up:

More proof that this car LOVES cold temps!

TAF, your sarcasm once again amazes me.......I thought that I mentioned that the BEFORE and after times w/the G-Tech device were all taken in the cold weather. Perhaps you didn't read that son. Perhpas you also didn't read in that other thread in the Community forum that I went to the track w/my friend Marty, and my ET's were better than his all day. And let me also point out to you that Marty's best ET was merely 2 tenths of a second better than his best ET in 70 degree weather.

However, let me point out that Marty's car is fast, and his best ET WAS very close to mine. Although Marty DOES have the U/D pulleys on his car whereas I do NOT. Thankyou.......

Marauderer, yes I agree w/you. All the guys who knock the use of the "G-tech" device to my knowledge are guys who have never even used one themself. And I too ignore the HP readings since that would be best suited for a dyno. BTW, I was hooking up fairly well at the track as was Marty during his last two runs. I felt the tires spin momentarily during the launch but it was minimal.

TripleTransAm
12-14-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by BillyGman
BTW, I was hooking up fairly well at the track as was Marty during his last two runs. I felt the tires spin momentarily during the launch but it was minimal.


Our Billy's come a long way... I remember a few months ago he was asking what it would take to get his MM to do a smokey tire-spinning muscle-car launch from a dead stop without the brake pedal! ;)

Now he's praising great traction! ;)

Seriously, Billy, great results. :up: I think you may have misinterpreted TAF's remarks, I think he was just echoing what we're all coming to realize, that these cars love the cold air. I think it has to do with a better launch... seems the low end felt stouter than usual on my way to my 14.6s last month (and my best 14.56), I'm thinking the motor was able to grab all sorts of timing on those launches without excessive cylinder temperatures inducing spark retard.

13.5s with so few mods... unbelievable what this car is capable of!!!!! 4200+ freaking pounds of weight, too!!!!

martyo
12-14-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by TripleTransAm
Our Billy's come a long way... I remember a few months ago he was asking what it would take to get his MM to do a smokey tire-spinning muscle-car launch from a dead stop without the brake pedal!

Ummm, our boy Billy can smoke his tires plenty! I had the (dis)pleasure of driving behind him as we left the track yesterday and he laid down a patch of rubber at one light that was a good thirty feet long (honest!). Good thing Billy has a spare set of BFG's waiting to replace the tires he has been shredding!!!

TripleTransAm
12-14-2003, 01:53 PM
LOL! Thanks for the description, Marty. Again, all I can say is :up:

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 01:56 PM
thanks for your remarks,and for your peace keeping effort. Maybe I have taken TAF's post all wrong. But that's a bit of a mystery since he was rather blunt w/his statement. So I think we cannot assume one way or the other unless he himself explains. If I've taken it the wrong way, then I'll be quick to offer a sincere apology to the man. But after that last argument he and I got into(which I had thought was resolved:rolleyes: ) the timing of a blunt statement like that was questionable at best.

Anyway, I think I'm enjoying the best of both worlds right now. On the track my car is hooking up pretty good during the launch, while on the street I could smoke the tires up from a dead punch while laying down a 20-40 ft strip of rubber depending on my back tire pressure. Just ask Marty about that. After leaving the track yesterday, while he was following me to the highway, I paused at a stop sign w/Marty behind me and put on a little show for him w/out the use of the brake. The car got sideways a little when it hit second gear. What some guys don't understand is that is precisely why I went w/the 4.56 gears and the Stallion Torque converter w/the 3000 RPM stall speed. To leave some good rubber from a dead punch. However the better ET's that I'm enjoying on the track are a fringe benefit, and one that I also like.

And sure the cold weather helps out my ET's, but since I beat Marty all day yesterday, and he was formerly the ET king among us N/A Marauder owners, I don't see how anyone can dispute my results.;)

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 01:58 PM
you beat me to that. I guess you type faster than I.
BTW, Marty, I had a blast yesterday hangin w/ya, and I would've had even if I didn't have the best ET's. We gota get together again. I'll be talkin to ya:)

martyo
12-14-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by BillyGman
Marty, I had a blast yesterday hangin w/ya, and I would've had even if I didn't have the best ET's. We gota get together again. I'll be talkin to ya:)

Yeah, yeah, sure sure. That's all easy for you to say now big shot with those times of yours! :D

By the way, and far be it for me to stick up for TAF, but he did NOT mean anything bad by his post. He and I (and others around here) have been saying for quite a while that these beasts really snort in the cold air. Don't take what he said so personally.

If I didn't know better Billy, I would have thought you had too much coffee in your diet, but i know you don't drink any!

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 02:14 PM
incase anyone who wants to continue to argue over the KOOK's vs. DR exhaust issue, let me attempt to disarm that whole rediculous argument by pointing out (once again)that Marty's car is very fast also, and he came VERY close yesterday in one of his runs to matching my best ET.

Yes, I think that if I had the U/D pulley det like Marty has on his car, I'd be in the 13.4's w/my car, but Marty's car is still very close to mine as far as ET's go. So puleeeeeze let's let this issue go BEFORE it even starts(again) and let the would-be KOOK's and Reinhart customers make up their own minds. Okay?

Marty, Fat Bastid, and I ALL had a great time at the track yesterday. And FB ran some pretty good times for having a stock Marauder(being in the 14's is impressive). So if anyone has a problem w/that, then my question to you is: What did you do yesterday? Hang curtains????

TAF
12-14-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by BillyGman
TAF, your sarcasm once again amazes me.......I thought that I mentioned that the BEFORE and after times w/the G-Tech device were all taken in the cold weather. Perhaps you didn't read that son.

No...actually I was just complimenting you. I was also reacting to the fact that you're running a 13.513 and I spoke with Marty on the phone and he ran a 13.580. And, the best any modded Marauder had done before was 13.7s by Constable & Marty. In MUCH warmer temperatures.

I could give a ***** about your G-tech...it never really entered my mind.

I am curious, however...how that extra 50 RWHP and 35 RWTQ along with the 4.56 gears only for .067 seconds over Marty's - Reinhart exhaust.:D

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by martyo

If I didn't know better Billy, I would have thought you had too much coffee in your diet, but i know you don't drink any!

LOL, well then big guy, in light of that I guess it's a good thing that I don't drink coffee. Just think of how I'd be if I did! But then again maybe my ET's would be better if I did:)

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 02:19 PM
like I said, I thought we were over all of that. No? If not, then that's your boat, and you'll have to row it yourself. I'm not going to help you out w/that. maybe you ought to cut down on the coffee....eh?

martyo
12-14-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by BillyGman
Yes, I think that if I had the U/D pulley set like Marty has on his car, I'd be in the 13.4's w/my car, but Marty's car is still very close to mine

Yeah sure, Billy, blame it on the UD's. If I had your mufflers and gear set.....

:lol:

The idea was to go out and have some fun and that's exactly what we did. And, before anybody asks, yes, indeed, I would have liked to best Billy's times but I am not unhappy with where I came out.

If you guys want more important information, ask me about how great Billy's exhaust sounded. I have probably heard as many MM's as anyone around here and I gotta tell you his car sounds great. I may try his muffler set up to see what it does on my car.

TAF
12-14-2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by TAF
I am curious, however...how that extra 50 RWHP and 35 RWTQ along with the 4.56 gears only for .067 seconds over Marty's - Reinhart exhaust.:D

Now THAT'S sarcasm, Billy^^^

martyo
12-14-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by TAF
Now THAT'S sarcasm, Billy^^^

Girls, girls! Play nice, would ya???

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 02:26 PM
that's a real good point there. I honestly forgot completely about the gear ratio difference. But I guess that's because I have been grilled so much by several members of this board in the past about how installing 4.56 gears was a mistake, and how that ratio would actually hurt my ET's and my trap speed.

And that's also a very good point about your mufflers. Now we're getting somewhere. What mufflers do you have anyway?

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by TAF
Now THAT'S sarcasm, Billy^^^

LOL, oh, I'm catching on now TAF. Okay, Okay, you got me. I guess I've been an easy target for ya. Eh?

But now I'm on to ya.......I apologize for my temper(but NOT for my ET's:D :D :D)........

martyo
12-14-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by BillyGman
What mufflers do you have anyway?

Stock right now, but that is likely to change soon....

TAF
12-14-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by BillyGman
(but NOT for my ET's:D :D :D)........

:up:

Hey...I yield to the fastest modded Marauder :bows:

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by martyo
Stock right now, but that is likely to change soon....

LOL.....I kinda thought that now that you've been DETHRONED:D

Seriously though.........I didn't realize that you still had the stock mufflers. My bad.......Why did you opt for the Reinhart upgrade if you decided to stay w/those mufflers. my guess is that those muffs are now the weak link in your exhaust. No?

I think what we should do to make this really interesting is this:

I get the U/D pulley set, and you get the 18" magnaflows since you said that you like the way my car sounds anyway. And then we both go back to the track, and then to that Dyno that you and I talked about. And while you're here in Connecticut for the Dyno, you and I can also do some target shooting that we talked about.

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by TAF
:up:

Hey...I yield to the fastest modded Marauder :bows:

Hey, coming from a senior board member like yourself, I'm honored....Thanks Todd.....but something tells me that w/Marty right behind me breathing fire down the back of my neck, I'm going to have to put in some overtime hours at work to be able to afford to stay on top.:rolleyes:

aaaahhhhhh....it's soooooo lonely at the top.....

Marauderer
12-14-2003, 02:50 PM
Billy,

Instead of working overtime, get a side job like I did at Burger King! Here, check out my video resume..... http://load.pquinn.com/binaries/fries/

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 02:58 PM
that's pretty good.......

TAF
12-14-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by Marauderer
Billy,

Instead of working overtime, get a side job like I did at Burger King! Here, check out my video resume..... http://load.pquinn.com/binaries/fries/

THAT^^^was :censor:ing hilarious!!!!


Originally posted by martyo
Stock right now, but that is likely to change soon....

Marty...I TOLD you to do the Magnaflows!!!!

martyo
12-14-2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by TAF
THAT^^^was :censor:ing hilarious!!!!



Marty...I TOLD you to do the Magnaflows!!!!

Yes you did Todd, but as you know, there may something else blowing my way.....That is if you ever get around to getting that information that you promised me!

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 03:18 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TAF
[B]THAT^^^was :censor:ing hilarious!!!!

LOL...hey, if you see me behind a BK counter singing like that, then I don't care.....as long as I can beat Marty at the track, then it will be worth it.:D

TAF
12-14-2003, 03:19 PM
Uh....uh....oh yeah...

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by martyo
Yes you did Todd, but as you know, there may something else blowing my way.....That is if you ever get around to getting that information that you promised me!

uh ho, sounds like Marty may be puling out some heavy artillary against me next time at the track..........that's it! It's time for me to mount that 50cal rifle on my hood. If I see his car in front of me, then his engine block is history........

jgc61sr2002
12-14-2003, 03:23 PM
Marauderer - Very funny, got a good laugh out of that. Thanks.:D

kurly
12-14-2003, 03:33 PM
BillyG,

That E/T of 13.51 is awesome! Our Marauders are really starting to show their potential. It gets better and better!

BillyGman
12-14-2003, 03:42 PM
that ET was acheived in very cool weather (38 degrees) so you have to take that into account. However to put this all into perspective, Marty who was w/me, ran a very impressive 13.58 ET, and hasn't done anything to his car since he ran a 13.7 ET in 70 degree weather. So by that my conclusion is that in 70 degree weather, I too would be running 13.7's also whereas the last time that I went to the track(which was in 70 degree temperatures) I ran a 14.4 ET @ 94MPH And that was BEFORE the Kook's header installation..:)

So I'm still very happy about that.

merc406
12-14-2003, 04:06 PM
I'd say you got excellent return on your investment and time, Congratulations! your rght up their with the fastest 50 Muscle Cars, being right in the middle of a 74 Trans Am-455 and a 63 Stude. Lark 289.

Logan
12-14-2003, 04:36 PM
I'm hoping I can lay down some equally impressive numbers this coming weekend at Hallsville...

...and just for giggles, I'll go ahead and bolt on the Under drive pullies before I go...

CRUZTAKER
12-14-2003, 06:26 PM
Wow, I missed alot while shoveling snow:P

Fly on the wall.....I'm staying out of that misunderstanding!

I have however found the U/D pullies are becoming very desirable....man I hope santa comes thru.....cause my wallet is tattered.

martyo
12-14-2003, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by Logan
I'm hoping I can lay down some equally impressive numbers this coming weekend at Hallsville...

...and just for giggles, I'll go ahead and bolt on the Under drive pullies before I go...

Logan, you better get the under drives on before you hit the track. The 4.30s you are running as compared to my 4.10s will help, but Billy was running the 4.56s.

It should be an interesting day for you guys in Texas on the 20th!

Logan
12-15-2003, 06:21 AM
I personally think the 4.30's help my cause, not hurt it. I think the 4.56's put the car a wee bit too far into it's power band too quickly and waste usable power. But that's just my two pennies. :D What the hell are they worth? Not much. :)

martyo
12-15-2003, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by Logan
I personally think the 4.30's help my cause, not hurt it. I think the 4.56's put the car a wee bit too far into it's power band too quickly and waste usable power. But that's just my two pennies. :D What the hell are they worth? Not much. :)

All eyes will be on you Logan.

If I had to do it over again, I would definitely go with the 4.30s but at this point in my build, I am not sure that it would be a cost effective upgrade.

Marauderer
12-15-2003, 07:25 AM
the 4.30's might be nice on a NA car, but oh my god when logan gets the trilogy kit he is going to be re-thinking that decision :) I hope you kept the stock gear set and have it handy :)

BillyGman
12-15-2003, 09:20 AM
if anyone thinks that 4.10 gears are ideal(whatever Ideal is) then you would have to say the same about 4.30's because NO WAY would anyone see any difference between having 4.10's and 4.30's. They're just so close in ratio and in RPM's that there's not going to be any difference whatsoever in the way the car accelerates w/them. Especially a heavy car like the MM. And anyone can quote me all they want on that statement, because I challenge anyone to prove me wrong w/both gear ratios in the same car and on the same track. It isn't gonna happen.

Now there IS a significant difference between 4.30's and 4.56's, however since my car has run the best ET's of any N/A Marauder so far, as well as the fastest trap speed, then my position about the opinion of 4.56's hurting me in the quartermile is: PROVE IT. Run a better ET than I did, and a faster Trap speed than my 101.35 MPH, and then I'll believe it.

At 70 MPH in third gear(O/D off) your Marauder will be reving at 3,444 RPM w/the 4.10 gears, and at that same speed w/the 4.30 gears, it will be reving at 3,612 RPM. So that 168 RPM difference at 70 MPH is so miniscule that you're splitting hairs by talking about differences between the two ratios.;)

Don't get me wrong though. I fully accept LOGAN's statements about the gear ratios even though I don't agree w/them, because he was simply sharing his opinion w/us, and he wasn't arrogant in any way in the way he stated his opinion either. So that's all cool. I just think that many people here don't realize how close 4.10 gears are to 4.30's. We're talking like a microscopic difference. And one that wouldn't even be noticed.:)

And remember that Marty who has the 4.10's in his car was w/me racing his car on the same day and on the same track, and even though he came very close to my ET and trap speed, he didn't match it at any part of the day let alone beat it. And up until now, Marty's car was the one to beat among N/A Marauders. So I rest my case.:)

merc406
12-15-2003, 09:37 AM
G-man, you runnin slicks?

BillyGman
12-15-2003, 09:44 AM
not even drag radials which I think would be ideal, but no cash left in the budget for this year for the Marauder except maybe for a Dyno run. I ran that 13.5 ET w/the stock tires.

Logan
12-15-2003, 11:09 AM
Oooooo Them's fightin' words!! I'm a gonna BURY that time and trap speed of yours there Billy!!! :banana2: :burnout: :eek: :lol:

BillyGman
12-15-2003, 11:18 AM
we will see Logan.......we will see....:D :D :D

.........but if you do, then I'll want to know what else you've done to your car that we don't know about........uh, unless ofcourse you've already had that Supercharger installed in your car that you were talking about:confused:

and in that case, you would be comparing apples to oranges my friend:P :P

Smokie
12-15-2003, 11:41 AM
Billy, first congratulations on what you have accomplished, you are putting down times that are faster than or as fast as some s/c MM's. I think you are also having fun doing it. And you should be proud of what you have accomplished; you are also getting a bit caught up in the "prove this or prove that" arena. Billy the car making you happy is the most important thing Don't worry about others agreeing with you, there will always be a faster car out there and of course there will be slower cars also. Enjoy the ride, that is what truly matters.:D

BillyGman
12-15-2003, 12:00 PM
thanks for your reply.........I agree w/you that none of this should be taken personal, and I wasn't offended at all by what Logan has stated. Infact, I hope that he is able to come up w/a good ET, and I have sent him a PM yesterday telling him that, and also giving him some tips about the best tire pressure to use that has worked for Marty and I using the stock tires. So it's all cool Dude.

The only thing that continues to amaze me is how many guys here are doubtful about the potential of the gear ratio that I've chosen. Again, Logan is entitled to his opinion, and since he shared it in such a classy way, I didn't have any problem w/that at all.

However, I was grilled in the past on this board by several other members about HOW WRONG I WAS to choose 4.56 gears w/out asking them about it first. And I'm talking about way back in the summer time of this year. And to my knowledge I'm one of the few members here, if not the ONLY one who has installed both the 4.10 gears, as well as the 4.56 gears in my MM, and I did it myself, so I know what was in there, and what is in there now. Furthermore, the 4.56 install I did w/out a lift, and on my back which was very challenging to say the least. So that's why those other members' statements when they were grilling me about my gear choice being wrong were waaaaay off base since they themselves have never even tried 4.56 gears in the MM like I have.

So I tend to react atleast enough to write a reply when I see somebody suggest that the 4.56's are hurting my ET's when so far my ET's are not only close to everyone else's who have 4.10's and 4.30's, but are actually better.;)

So if somebody beats my time, that's okay, especially if they did it in a Marauder. But puleeeeze don't suggest that it was because of my choice of gears unless you can prove that, because I believe that so far, I've proven that theory wrong, and because of the grillings that I've had to endure from some members in the past about MY choice of gear ratios, this 4.56 gear ratio bashing thing has become a pet peeve of mine. Especially because nobody else here besides myself has even tried the 4.56's in their Marauder. So please don't knock it until you've tried it JUST like I HAVE.......I know that LOGAN wasn't neccessarily knocking my gear choice, but because others have, then I wanted to explain my position.

Logan
12-15-2003, 01:31 PM
...Well, we'll certainly never accuse you of being shy, that's for sure... ;)

BillyGman
12-15-2003, 03:57 PM
:D :D :D

I really do hope that you do well at the track LOGAN........

amerikan
12-15-2003, 08:12 PM
ok finally our marauders will outrin an m3 or a c32 NA. would you guys expect me to run high 13s with the kooks exhaust/header kit? im pretty sure i will. i am 70% ordering them for the holidays any idea on the cost and install cost. thanks guys...i read through the posts.. very funny.

CRUZTAKER
12-15-2003, 08:33 PM
:P

Bear's thinking...
damn snow...spring in NE Ohio....then I'll show 'em....:rolleyes:

jspradii
12-15-2003, 09:41 PM
Marty, Logan, Billy................Hee! Hee! Hee!!!!!!!!! Except for Marty, you haven't run with me lately! And that was at Ennis. TAF needs to remind everyone that ET's are simply made to be broken by someone else. My 13.7 & 101 mph trap speed at Ennis was after a tire spin and fishtail. I'm looking forward to what can be done with a clean hook-up. Look out. This thread is fun....keep it up, guys!

BillyGman
12-15-2003, 11:51 PM
if, and when you find a way to get your car to hook up, I'm sure that you'll be smokin everyone here except ofcourse for the Supercharged guys. With the kind of Torque your car must be puting out on Nitrous, my guess is that you definately should be running slicks........

BillyGman
12-16-2003, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by amerikan
would you guys expect me to run high 13s with the kooks exhaust/header kit? im pretty sure i will. any idea on the cost and install cost. thanks guys...i read through the posts.. very funny.

As for your potential ET's all I can do is offer you my opinion, and speculation.......correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't have the Stallion Torque converter in your car like Marty and I both have in our cars. And that DOES make a big difference in ET's. So you might run around 14 flat, or maybe get into the high 13's since Constable has dipped into the high 13's himself w/the Kook's headers, and w/out the Stallion Converter.

but as far as the cost of the Kook's system, look around, cuz it's posted right here in this same forum by Nick and perhaps Logan too. I'd highly recommend getting the total system from Kook's (Headers, Hi-flow cats, X-pipe, and 18" Magnaflow mufflers).

Logan
12-16-2003, 06:12 AM
The costs and contact info are posted in the front page of the Kook's forum on this site. Well worth the moola. Count on 8 hours of install time or so if you take it to a competent shop.

DEW34
12-16-2003, 03:59 PM
i ordered me header kit yesterday on the last day of the sale ,and as iwas having lunch with miss dew she told me she would trade the gt in the garage for the mm cause shes tired of the troopers and the broward county sherifs following her around lol i told her i would gladly take it <snickering> i knew iwould end up with it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mike:O)

BillyGman
12-16-2003, 06:41 PM
you're talking about a Mustang GT, then I'd rather have the Marauder because I think the styling of the MM looks better. But that's simply my opinion.