Sigh...same TC lockup issue...

[duhtroll]

I am still having the TC lockup/unlock (formerly bucking at around 2000 RPMs) issue.

I have the issue expressed in a previous thread (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65234), but here is a summary. Acceleration is fine and then when I reach highway speeds, 60 MPH and up and 2100-2300 RPMs (thought initially it was a lower range and through data logging found my tach reads low), the RPMs will surge/bounce up and down about 2-300 RPMs repeatedly every few seconds.

Datalog shows "torque converter duty cycle" corresponds with this bucking.

The car has to be warmed up first.

When we load a tune that eliminates TC lockup, the problem is gone. However I want the problem fixed, not just circumvented.

I have swapped from the Stallion TC to the stock, so I doubt both TCs are bad. So I also will have a PI 3200 stall for sale most likely as I no longer need it.

I have had the solenoid in the TC replaced twice. Electrical diagnostic shows high resistance at TCC solenoid, still.

We have tried 4 different tunes - happens in all of them.

It happens in 4th and when OD is locked out.

Replaced both front O2s.

Cleaned MAF twice and disconnected battery to reset also.

I need this problem fixed or I am at the point where I will be selling and moving on. I lost most of the summer to this stupid problem and I am not just going to take up garage space with this anymore.

Any takers on what the next step should be?

[4play]

Get tranny out of scrap yard try that.

[Darrin]

I am going to tell you this from a lot of experience with this problem on several different Ford platforms. What you do with it is up to you.

I am definitely NOT saying that this is your problem, but almost 90% of the time the problem behind this exact complaint ends up being a low grade misfire caused by one or more failing COPs. Yours is almost the textbook classic example actually. And, it almost never fails that people always argue the same arguments in this instance. 'How can it be the coils when it does it only for this rpm range?' 'How can that be coils when it doesn't do it if the torque converter is unlocked?' 'How can that be coils when the data shows this other thing happening while the problem happens?

The answer to all of these is that it does happen and it can be that because of computer control. Think about the load and the change in load in all of those scenarios. A few of the key things that the computer looks at when determining what it's doing with spark control are rpm and load. Also know that it is entirely likely that there will be nothing noticed at WOT. It happens all the time. These things fail a lot and they don't do it in a way that seemingly makes sense to most people. The complaint is always exactly what yours is.

So, my advice is that if you haven't considered the COP's for whatever reasons then now would be a good time to do so. I tell people to get a couple of good COP's and start swapping them out to see if the problem changes or goes away. Usually they can even borrow them from another vehicle. It isn't that hard and you don't have to change anything else which might give you a false sense of having fixed it when the problem goes away while it's re-learning.

That's just my advice. What you do is up to you.

Darrin

[duhtroll]

Thanks - would this also explain the findings of the electrical diagnostic?


I am going to tell you this from a lot of experience with this problem on several different Ford platforms. What you do with it is up to you.

I am definitely NOT saying that this is your problem, but almost 90% of the time the problem behind this exact complaint ends up being a low grade misfire caused by one or more failing COPs. Yours is almost the textbook classic example actually. And, it almost never fails that people always argue the same arguments in this instance. 'How can it be the coils when it does it only for this rpm range?' 'How can that be coils when it doesn't do it if the torque converter is unlocked?' 'How can that be coils when the data shows this other thing happening while the problem happens?

The answer to all of these is that it does happen and it can be that because of computer control. Think about the load and the change in load in all of those scenarios. A few of the key things that the computer looks at when determining what it's doing with spark control are rpm and load. Also know that it is entirely likely that there will be nothing noticed at WOT. It happens all the time. These things fail a lot and they don't do it in a way that seemingly makes sense to most people. The complaint is always exactly what yours is.

So, my advice is that if you haven't considered the COP's for whatever reasons then now would be a good time to do so. I tell people to get a couple of good COP's and start swapping them out to see if the problem changes or goes away. Usually they can even borrow them from another vehicle. It isn't that hard and you don't have to change anything else which might give you a false sense of having fixed it when the problem goes away while it's re-learning.

That's just my advice. What you do is up to you.

Darrin

[Darrin]

It wouldn't explain that of course. But are you getting any codes from the computer on that? If you think that is the issue then you need to start working your way through the wiring harness all the way from the transmission to the computer to see where the high resistance connection or wire is.

Might not be a bad place to start. It's only time and no cost for parts.

Darrin

[duhtroll]

No, no codes.


It wouldn't explain that of course. But are you getting any codes from the computer on that? If you think that is the issue then you need to start working your way through the wiring harness all the way from the transmission to the computer to see where the high resistance connection or wire is.

Might not be a bad place to start. It's only time and no cost for parts.

Darrin

[Darrin]

That's all I got then for now.

So if you think it's realted to a problem in the TCC circuit somewhere then I would start by ohming out that circuit at the computer and then checking the resistance of the solenoid by unhooking everything and putting the meter directly on the solenoid itself. If there is a discrepancy through the circuit then start from the solenoid end and work your way toward the computer checking every connection until you find the problem.

Again, that is easy enough and won't cost you anything but time.

Let me know if I can help at all.

Darrin

[martyo]

I am definitely NOT saying that this is your problem, but almost 90% of the time the problem behind this exact complaint ends up being a low grade misfire caused by one or more failing COPs.

I agree with Darrin.

[RacerX]

If you need COPs, I have a set of 8 used WORKING that I'll get rid of cheap.

[martyo]

If you need COPs, I have a set of 8 used WORKING that I'll get rid of cheap.

Price please?

Zip is 30141

[MrBluGruv]

So I also will have a PI 3200 stall for sale most likely as I no longer need it.

Given that the TC is in good working order (sounds like that isn't the problem) and you do sell it, how much are you thinking you'll be wanting for it?

[RacerX]

$50 shipped if you want them. If that's not the prob, you can sell them cheap to someone else easily enough.

[babbage]

Perhaps the TC duty cycle is related to a misfire/stumble of the engine.

Try replacing your EGR/DPFE - it's one assembly. I think is was $100 or so. I had a light bucking at float and I replaced the EGR/DPFE and the stumble at low rpm vanished. May or may not be your problem. You said "end of rope" so try it...

[martyo]

$50 shipped if you want them. If that's not the prob, you can sell them cheap to someone else easily enough.

PM me payment info.

[duhtroll]

I haven't checked list prices lately, but the TC has only a few thousand miles on it and about a dozen passes at the track, so I am guessing something like 60-70% of whatever one would be new.


Given that the TC is in good working order (sounds like that isn't the problem) and you do sell it, how much are you thinking you'll be wanting for it?

[Blackened300a]

Perhaps the TC duty cycle is related to a misfire/stumble of the engine.

Try replacing your EGR/DPFE - it's one assembly. I think is was $100 or so. I had a light bucking at float and I replaced the EGR/DPFE and the stumble at low rpm vanished. May or may not be your problem. You said "end of rope" so try it...

He isolated it down to the TC by shutting the lockup off in the tune. If it was the EGR it would be a constant issue no matter what the convertor is doing.

When I had my car tuned we locked the convertor on the dyno. Why? Because it puts more load on the engine and it gives a more accurate idea of how to adjust the AF mixture. When the TC locks up it such a added load on the engine that you can see it on the graph and hear the engine bog down. Which is why I would have to agree with Darrin that its a COP issue thats breaking up under a load. Contact Musclemerc for a great deal on 8 new coils. His price was $110 shipped.

[duhtroll]

Thanks for all the replies - that looks like where I am headed.

[duhtroll]

I have PMed him, but a couple questions.

Wouldn't the coil issue show up either with a code or through the diagnostic?

Also, you must mean $110 per, right? I'd rather do two and swap them around to see if I can make the problem go away than buy all 8.


He isolated it down to the TC by shutting the lockup off in the tune. If it was the EGR it would be a constant issue no matter what the convertor is doing.

When I had my car tuned we locked the convertor on the dyno. Why? Because it puts more load on the engine and it gives a more accurate idea of how to adjust the AF mixture. When the TC locks up it such a added load on the engine that you can see it on the graph and hear the engine bog down. Which is why I would have to agree with Darrin that its a COP issue thats breaking up under a load. Contact Musclemerc for a great deal on 8 new coils. His price was $110 shipped.

[Darrin]

Wouldn't the coil issue show up either with a code or through the diagnostic?


Almost 100% of the time it does not show up any way other than by driving it because the problem is isolated to very specific conditions.

This is another one of those questions that get asked almost every single time that I forgot to mention above.

I think that price was for 8. Snatch those up.

Darrin

[Blackened300a]

I have PMed him, but a couple questions.

Wouldn't the coil issue show up either with a code or through the diagnostic?

Also, you must mean $110 per, right? I'd rather do two and swap them around to see if I can make the problem go away than buy all 8.

No, $110 for all 8 shipped. The deal of the century.

I had a coil meltdown when my plug backed out and the boot wore out and it arced against the cam cover. I drove another 20 miles on 7 cyl til I was able to pull over and fix the problem. No CEL the entire time. I also had a sparatic miss due to a coil being not plugged in all the way. No CEL either. Its not a very reliable warning system when it comes to ignition issues.

[duhtroll]

Wow - for all 8??

I PMed him about them so hopefully I can get that deal.

So no CEL means no code so not even my scangauge or tuner will read a problem. I am thrilled to hear that.

Hopefully I can get these on soon and see if that solves it.

Thanks again.


No, $110 for all 8 shipped. The deal of the century.

I had a coil meltdown when my plug backed out and the boot wore out and it arced against the cam cover. I drove another 20 miles on 7 cyl til I was able to pull over and fix the problem. No CEL the entire time. I also had a sparatic miss due to a coil being not plugged in all the way. No CEL either. Its not a very reliable warning system when it comes to ignition issues.

[Marauderjack]

I had the exact same thing going on 5 years ago and the Granatelli connectors fixed it for good....220K miles on OEM coils and still GOOD!!:beer::bows:

[TooManyFords]

Andrew, I've stored the beater marauder for the winter, you're welcome to "borrow" mine until you determine what the problem is. It is behind my house on the slab. Phone me for the door pad code and you can "pick-n-pull" whenever it is convenient for ya. Homelink button opens the garage door so you can get at the toolbox.

John

[duhtroll]

Have not received a reply from musclemerc - have noticed others on his page asking him the same question I have been.

Anyone know if he is around? Says he has been on the site recently.


He isolated it down to the TC by shutting the lockup off in the tune. If it was the EGR it would be a constant issue no matter what the convertor is doing.

When I had my car tuned we locked the convertor on the dyno. Why? Because it puts more load on the engine and it gives a more accurate idea of how to adjust the AF mixture. When the TC locks up it such a added load on the engine that you can see it on the graph and hear the engine bog down. Which is why I would have to agree with Darrin that its a COP issue thats breaking up under a load. Contact Musclemerc for a great deal on 8 new coils. His price was $110 shipped.

[duhtroll]

Thanks!

I have a car to drive, if you can call that roller skate Nissan a car - it isn't that, so I will hold off borrowing for now. If you are around we can do the coils (might as well do plugs too) if you're willing to stop by sometime. I am going to try the new coils and then mess with the EGR if coils doesn't fix it.

After that, it is going on ebay.


Andrew, I've stored the beater marauder for the winter, you're welcome to "borrow" mine until you determine what the problem is. It is behind my house on the slab. Phone me for the door pad code and you can "pick-n-pull" whenever it is convenient for ya. Homelink button opens the garage door so you can get at the toolbox.

John

[duhtroll]

UPDATE:

COPs did not fix the problem. Today was the first day with warm temps since Nov. that I could get the car out and drive it for any length of time.

It is DEFINITELY heat related as it will not ever do this bucking crap during cold temps. Yet every time the sun is out and temps are over 65 or so, there it goes when it is good and warm.

I drove it to work and back today - 25 miles each way with no problem. I thought I was home free. Then I had an appointment after work - another 6 miles or so and on the way home it started up again.

I considered driving it into the river.

I am one attempt at fix from trading it for a used Fusion.

[FF1077]

Take a look at this link and if that information can in anyway help you I will do it and send it to you.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=68435

[duhtroll]

Looks interesting, but I have a scangauge 2 and LiveLink.


Take a look at this link and if that information can in anyway help you I will do it and send it to you.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=68435

[TooManyFords]

I am one attempt at fix from trading it for a used Fusion.

or selling out to me.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[FF1077]

Looks interesting, but I have a scangauge 2 and LiveLink.


With Torque I can email you the Data Logs from my car.
It looks like we are both Trilogy Owners and the previous owner did not technically relocate the IAT sensor.
He got the updated setup from Jerry and installed it, just never changed the hook up.
Technically are cares are exteremely similiar.

[FF1077]

Something that comes to mind is a cracked intake manifold.
I had a buddy who years ago chased a similair problem to yours for well over a year in his 4x4. Had his transmission rebuilt twice, took it to many mechanics and they eventually narrowed it down to a engine problem.

He finally got tired of throwing parts and it and decided to have his engine rebuilt and modded by a local 4x4 shop.

The shop he took it to said when they took the engine apart they found a small crack in his aluminum intake. What was happening is once the engine got nice and hot the metal shrank (shrunk?) enought to create a small vaccum leak.
It didnt throw a code and none of the places he took it to ran it long enough for the leak to appear. I guess it wasnt big enough to suck in enough ether/WD40 at idle either. Plus he would have needed to do it when it was nice and hot.

I saw the manifold and the crack was so tiny that if he hadnt shown it to me I dont think I could have found it when it was on the engine.