Header Gains

[DTRMiguel]

Hey all anyone know realistic HP&TQ gains with stainless works headers and cats?? NA cars

[SC Cheesehead]

Hey all anyone know realistic HP&TQ gains with stainless works headers and cats?? NA cars

Over 9,000.

[fastblackmerc]

Not much, certainly not looking at $$$'s spent vs. HP gained. It's a good stepping stone to go along with forced induction.

[LANDY]

Your looking at 15 to 20 rwhp

[musclemerc]

Here is a good list of info that includes dyno information and not a guess.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64672

[ImpalaSlayer]

if you buy LTs i will not install them for you LOL. buy shorties, save money and i will help you install them

[SC Cheesehead]

if you buy LTs i will not install them for you LOL. buy shorties, save money and i will help you install them


Attaboy, Dave! FRPP shortys FTW!! :banana2:

[fastblackmerc]

Attaboy, Dave! FRPP shortys FTW!! :banana2:

+3!!!! :banana2::banana2::banana2:

[babbage]

if you buy LTs i will not install them for you LOL. buy shorties, save money and i will help you install them


Someones growing weary of wrenching.. They are an ordeal to install ask me how I know!

Why have a hamburger when you can have Sirloin? ;)

[ImpalaSlayer]

Someones growing weary of wrenching.. They are an ordeal to install ask me how I know!

Why have a hamburger when you can have Sirloin? ;)

weary of wrenching? im restoring 2 trucks LOL


i will never install another set of those

[Dennis Reinhart]

Hey all anyone know realistic HP&TQ gains with stainless works headers and cats?? NA cars

Over 25 RWHP I will soon have kooks in stock

[SpartaPerformance]

IMEO shorties are a waste of time and $$$. On N/A you'll get 6HP on a good day, in Alaska, with free wheeling dyno rollers. :D Long tubes is the only way. With a good tune LT's can give you 15HP across the entire RPM range, and 20-25 in the peak range.

[Blackened300a]

IMEO shorties are a waste of time and $$$. On N/A you'll get 6HP on a good day, in Alaska, with free wheeling dyno rollers. :D Long tubes is the only way. With a good tune LT's can give you 15HP across the entire RPM range, and 20-25 in the peak range.

One day we'll find that out if you get back to me with a bottom line cost. ;)

[musclemerc]

Sorry good Sir, but it has already been proven shorty's make 18~22HP.
That is a fact, TAF and a few others have documented that a looooong time ago. LT's make only a couple HP more.

Begin the flame job! :flamer:


IMEO shorties are a waste of time and $$$. On N/A you'll get 6HP on a good day, in Alaska, with free wheeling dyno rollers. :D Long tubes is the only way. With a good tune LT's can give you 15HP across the entire RPM range, and 20-25 in the peak range.

[Dennis Reinhart]

IMEO shorties are a waste of time and $$$. On N/A you'll get 6HP on a good day, in Alaska, with free wheeling dyno rollers. :D Long tubes is the only way. With a good tune LT's can give you 15HP across the entire RPM range, and 20-25 in the peak range.


It is refreshing to reiterate what I stated 8 years ago,

[ImpalaSlayer]

for the *** **** you get when buying LTs for crappy porducts that dont fit worth a **** i think ill take the shorties that actually clear everything and cost a ton less. add boost and who cares about a 10hp difference

[LANDY]

Everyone has a different opinion, i like the LT's better. Even tho i have had bad luck with my firts gen Kooks I still prefer them. I will be getting rid of these and going with SW, but never I mean never shortys.10 rwhp is 10 rwhp where ever your at.
I have fun working on my car no matter what angles my arms have to be in, for whatever amount of time.

[Big House]

40 plus in each category...horse and torque. Here is the dyno graph.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/medium/Big_House_dyno_pull.JPG

[Blackened300a]

40 plus in each category...horse and torque. Here is the dyno graph.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/medium/Big_House_dyno_pull.JPG

Have you been to the track with these mods and went 13.7?

[Big House]

Yeah. Knocked off .6 off the previous run. 14.1 pre-mods, 13.75 after.

[babbage]

for the ass rape you get when buying LTs for crappy porducts that dont fit worth a **** i think ill take the shorties that actually clear everything and cost a ton less. add boost and who cares about a 10hp difference

haha! The SW fit really really well. I took a picture last night just for you Dave. It shows how easy it is to put the starter in. I got all 3 starter bolts installed and tight in 10 minutes. (after the SW LT's)


Yeah. Knocked off .6 off the previous run. 14.1 pre-mods, 13.75 after.

This is fairly typical, LT's are worth .6 to .7 in the 1/4 mile.

[ctrlraven]

You tell'em House! Good to see you posing again sir.

Everyone's car will have different results and also depending on what other mods they have. Kooks headers are mid-length and SW headers are full long tube headers, that right there is a main difference.

[Big House]

I see I have to get back to the track....I need to get a n/a 13.5.

[ImpalaSlayer]

haha! The SW fit really really well. I took a picture last night just for you Dave. It shows how easy it is to put the starter in. I got all 3 starter bolts installed and tight in 10 minutes. (after the SW LT's)



This is fairly typical, LT's are worth .6 to .7 in the 1/4 mile.

always herd the SW fit better then the POS kooks

[babbage]

always herd the SW fit better then the POS kooks

seeing is believing.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=67736&page=5

tell me what you think dave...

[ImpalaSlayer]

hell of alot better then kooks

[Seneca]

[QUOTE=ImpalaSlayer;1013737]if you buy LTs i will not install them for you LOL. buy shorties, save money and i will help you install them[/QUO oh come on now they're not that bad. lol... Atleast the stainless arnt anyways. 4 hours to romove manifolds and install headers:D

[Paul T. Casey]

Yeah. Knocked off .6 off the previous run. 14.1 pre-mods, 13.75 after.

Sounds familiar. I took .5 off with the exhaust mod. Kooks is the way I went, no other choice at the time. I have 200K miles on the Kooks, still in excellent shape.

[Paul T. Casey]

As a dollar per horsepower mod, the long tubes is pricey, especially when you consider the hidden costs to gain the most (rest of exhaust and a tune to optimize the mod). I'm happy with my doing it, eye appeal, horsepower and torque gains, and sound. It may not be the mod of choice for everyone though.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Sounds familiar. I took .5 off with the exhaust mod. Kooks is the way I went, no other choice at the time. I have 200K miles on the Kooks, still in excellent shape.

Yes kooks is a proven product not a POS just the person that posted that is badly misstaken (enough said)

And shorties are a complete waiste of time and money.

[Joe Walsh]

for the ass rape you get when buying LTs for crappy porducts that dont fit worth a **** i think ill take the shorties that actually clear everything and cost a ton less. add boost and who cares about a 10hp difference


always herd the SW fit better then the POS kooks


hell of alot better then kooks

Darn Dave,
It sounds like you really do not like Kooks!

My kooks were a PITA to install, but they fit great and have not given me any trouble in 6 years.

[ctrlraven]

Yeah he just had a bad time installing them. lol

[Dennis Reinhart]

Yeah he just had a bad time installing them. lol

Yes I am sure he did and thanks for posting that, but I was of the thought that one of the things that makes this site so different from the others is the ability to carry on intelligent conversation with out the gutter talk, I have been installing Kooks for over six years they constantly look at ways to improve there products, they have great customer service, I am a dealer and paying vendor here so respect me as I do all the members here, if you do not like Kooks don't buy them, many here have them and like them. And there is no need for the profanity or terms like POS.

[ImpalaSlayer]

Yes I am sure he did and thanks for posting that, but I was of the thought that one of the things that makes this site so different from the others is the ability to carry on intelligent conversation with out the gutter talk, I have been installing Kooks for over six years they constantly look at ways to improve there products, they have great customer service, I am a dealer and paying vendor here so respect me as I do all the members here, if you do not like Kooks don't buy them, many here have them and like them. And there is no need for the profanity or terms like POS.

kooks are a pos

this is my opinion, i respect yours

hope everyone has a great weekend

[ctrlraven]

My view on Kooks vs SW is Kooks are mid-length while SW are full-length. You pay a little more for SW headers but you get a little more power with proper tuning. Either header will get the job done.

[musclemerc]

:shake: :shake: :shake: :shake:


Yes I am sure he did and thanks for posting that, but I was of the thought that one of the things that makes this site so different from the others is the ability to carry on intelligent conversation with out the gutter talk, I have been installing Kooks for over six years they constantly look at ways to improve there products, they have great customer service, I am a dealer and paying vendor here so respect me as I do all the members here, if you do not like Kooks don't buy them, many here have them and like them. And there is no need for the profanity or terms like POS.

[MMBLUE]

:shake: :shake: :shake: :shake:

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO ****ZZZZZZZZZZZNIT !!!! Here we go again.:mad2::mad2::flamer:

[SC Cheesehead]

FRPP Shortys FTW! (Where's Glenn when you really need him...)

[CBT]

kooks are a pos

this is my opinion, i respect yours

hope everyone has a great weekend

its only wednesday :confused:

[SC Cheesehead]

its only wednesday :confused:

Yeah, but Dave has one of them dream jobs.

Wednesday = Weekend

:D

[SpartaPerformance]

One day we'll find that out if you get back to me with a bottom line cost. ;)

I'll call them tomorrow.


Sorry good Sir, but it has already been proven shorty's make 18~22HP.
That is a fact, TAF and a few others have documented that a looooong time ago. LT's make only a couple HP more.

Begin the flame job! :flamer:

Proven by whom? Every shorty dyno I've seen (I've seen many) has minimal gains, never seen double digit gains being on a 2v, 4v or 3v. Shorties don't scavange enough over stock "logs" to make any real HP.

[ImpalaSlayer]

not exactly :rofl:

[Dennis Reinhart]

Here are the FACTS, I was the person that built and sold this shortie headers, I used the Magnaflows X pipe and designed the ERG adapter, and you had to raise the engine on the drivers side to clear the steering, and I sold a lot of these, because there were no LTH then, now the Ford Motor sport header was made for non tumble port heads this meant 99 and back 4.6 DOHC engines they did bolt up to the Marauder but what I found out was the flange and ports did not port match the Marauder head if you ran these it left the imprint around the flange showing the restriction that is why I dropped them and sold the ceramic Mach 1 manifolds that did port match the head, I showed this years ago, Glenn is my friend he has them and that is great, if he went with LTH he would gain RWHP, but what he has works why spend the money, if you do not have the money for LTH then go with Mack 1 manifolds, I am just posting what I know.

[SC Cheesehead]

Sorry good Sir, but it has already been proven shorty's make 18~22HP.
That is a fact, TAF and a few others have documented that a looooong time ago. LT's make only a couple HP more.

Begin the flame job! :flamer:


Proven by whom? Every shorty dyno I've seen (I've seen many) has minimal gains, never seen double digit gains being on a 2v, 4v or 3v. Shorties don't scavange enough over stock "logs" to make any real HP.

I'll have some data to post up on shortys in a couple weeks.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I'll have some data to post up on shortys in a couple weeks.


Most every one that had shorties bought them from me, and I have a dyno with hundreds of hours on it. I have done before and after I have never seen 18 RWHP with the shorties installed with tuning yes. I can seen 20 plus RWHP with LTH and no tuning.

[SC Cheesehead]

Most every one that had shorties bought them from me, and I have a dyno with hundreds of hours on it. I have done before and after I have never seen 18 RWHP with just a header install with tuning yes.

Can't argue that, Dennis, and I'm going with high flow cats and a Mac Pro-Chamber, so the results won't reflect strictly shorty headers, but I do hope to see a 15 - 20 hp gain over the current S/C numbers.

[ImpalaSlayer]

where did the claim of 18hp with out tuning come from? i know for a fact Rex is haing it re tuned after the install and if you are driving around with headers and no tune, you are an idiot. my car was way lean when i installed mine

[SC Cheesehead]

where did the claim of 18hp with out tuning come from? i know for a fact Rex is haing it re tuned after the install and if you are driving around with headers and no tune, you are an idiot. my car was way lean when i installed mine

Yeah, will have the A/F ratio tweaked, but I don't plan on having the timing bumped any further; car runs strong now, just want to get the exhaust mods completed and will call it done (for now...;)).

[CWright]

Yeah, will have the A/F ratio tweaked, but I don't plan on having the timing bumped any further; car runs strong now, just want to get the exhaust mods completed and will call it done (for now...;)).

NOT!:D I said the same thing at a tune. Then mod bug bit me on the A$$. A to A S/C kit, Kooks LT's with highflow cats and Xpipe, metco rear control arms, wilwood front brakes, widened wheels,a rear set of Nitto 555 extremes, and a few HIDDEN TOYS, at a grand total of TOO MUCH FREEKIN MONEY TO SPEND ON A CAR (as my bride puts it) I'm sure I'll find something else to mod. :burnout:

[SC Cheesehead]

NOT!:D I said the same thing at a tune. Then mod bug bit me on the A$$. A to A S/C kit, Kooks LT's with highflow cats and Xpipe, metco rear control arms, wilwood front brakes, widened wheels,a rear set of Nitto 555 extremes, at a grand total of TOO MUCH FREEKIN MONEY TO SPEND ON A CAR (as my bride puts it) I'm sure I'll find something else to mod. :burnout:

What was your wife's maiden name, I think I married her sister... ;)

[CWright]

What was your wife's maiden name, I think I married her sister... ;)


:lol::lol:

[Dennis Reinhart]

Yeah, will have the A/F ratio tweaked, but I don't plan on having the timing bumped any further; car runs strong now, just want to get the exhaust mods completed and will call it done (for now...;)).


See we start with a intelligent discussion then you have the water head chime in, and Cheesehead I sure do not mean you. I enjoy your post and professionalism the watter head has no time on a dyno but hundreds of hours reading posts and is a authority, not every Marauder car is lean with headers, but to do a legitimate test you do a before dyno pull, then you do a pull with the headers and then you look at the AF, and adjust it from there, I did a 2010 5.0 GT before then after the AF was in the 12's that is rich not lean and the car made 9 RWHP, after leaning the car out adjusting timing and other factors it gained 25 RWHP I contribute that to the tuning not he headers, is 2000 dollars worth 9 RWHP NO.

But the GT has 2 1/2" SS mandrill bent pipes, the owner wanted LTH he liked the sound and what SCT did for the shift schedule so this was what I was trying to explain, when the watter head does what he is best at taking statements out of context, I just ignore the peanut head, headers on a N/A Marauder does not always need a dyno tune a S/C Marauder should. Any one with intelligence can watch STFT, and see what the AF is at idle and part throttle, and then look at WOT and you can see exactly what the car is doing this the beauty of the Xcal 3 and data logging, for the water head STFT means short term fuel trims.

I have always tried to do my research for this club. I have been doing this since 2003 I rode in the Marauder before it was even in production, and I still try and come up with improvements for this car.

So if you want to post facts then you should do a test stock add LTH or shorties and post the numbers, post the AF before and after post the data log this is how you prove the point.

[CWright]

See we start with a intelligent discussion then you have the water head chime in, and Cheesehead I sure do not mean you. I enjoy your post and professionalism the watter head has no time on a dyno but hundreds of hours reading posts and is a authority, not every Marauder car is lean with headers, but to do a legitimate test you do a before dyno pull, then you do a pull with the headers and then you look at the AF, and adjust it from there, I did a 2010 5.0 GT before then after the AF was in the 12's that is rich not lean and the car made 9 RWHP, after leaning the car out adjusting timing and other factors it gained 25 RWHP I contribute that to the tuning not he headers, is 2000 dollars worth 9 RWHP NO.

But the GT has 2 1/2" SS mandrill bent pipes, the owner wanted LTH he liked the sound and what SCT did for the shift schedule so this was what I was trying to explain, and taken out of context, I just ignore the peanut head, headers on a N/A Marauder does not always need a dyno tune a S/C Marauder should. Any one with intelligence can watch STFT, and see what the AF is at idle and part throttle, and then look at WOT and you can see exactly what the car is doing this the beauty of the Xcal 3 and data logging, for the water head STFT means short term fuel trims.

I have always tried to do my research for this club. I have been doing this since 2003 I rode in the Marauder before it was even in production, and I still try and come up with improvements for this car.

So if you want to post facts then you should do a test stock add LTH or shorties and post the numbers, post the AF before and after post the data log this is how you prove the point.


All I can say is that I have been very pleased with my car. 461 RWHP, on a safe tune, to me is pretty stout with my set up. THANKS Dennis. :beer:

[Dennis Reinhart]

All I can say is that I have been very pleased with my car. 461 RWHP, on a safe tune, to me is pretty stout with my set up. THANKS Dennis. :beer:

Thank you Chris, :banana2:

[ImpalaSlayer]

water head. lmao. never been on a dyno? ok :rolleyes: not saying im a tuner but i sure as hell aint driving my blown car with out DYNO tune in which i asked the tuner many questions about what he was doing and what affects it would have. im just a water head that builds the fastest jets in Reno every year.

sorry you "built" the shorties and added a 4inch extension to the x pipe and marked it up 700 bucks :rolleyes: you crack me up man

[Dj1]

:popcorn::popcorn:

[HoleyMoley64]

Any shift in power/torque curves noted with either short, mid, or regular length headers as a rule?

[SC Cheesehead]

All I can say is that I have been very pleased with my car. 461 RWHP, on a safe tune, to me is pretty stout with my set up. THANKS Dennis. :beer:

460.97, don't go fudging them numbers, pal! ;) -----> :D

[Dennis Reinhart]

460.97, don't go fudging them numbers, pal! ;) -----> :D



Tust me he is not neither is Landy or Levi, ;)

[prchrman]

I have to admit after reading these post I do not see the big deal. The only big deal I see is what do you want to do to your car. We all want to think we made the right choice of mods for our cars and do not like being wrong, but what is wrong, if you are happy quit worrying about what others have or have not. I for one have no use for headers, mostly expensive, hard to put on, little bang for the investment especially with them being $700 and needing other exhaust work done for optimum improvement, often leaks, many times heats up other components, makes service difficult at times, but with that said; I say it is your money and your car, do as you will and be happy, why all the argument? It is like trying to convince someone red is a better color than blue. In the words of the great philosopher James Brown, "jump back, kiss yourself, mmmm that good".

[CWright]

460.97, don't go fudging them numbers, pal! ;) -----> :D


My bad! :P

[Dennis Reinhart]

I have to admit after reading these post I do not see the big deal. The only big deal I see is what do you want to do to your car. We all want to think we made the right choice of mods for our cars and do not like being wrong, but what is wrong, if you are happy quit worrying about what others have or have not. I for one have no use for headers, mostly expensive, hard to put on, little bang for the investment especially with them being $700 and needing other exhaust work done for optimum improvement, often leaks, many times heats up other components, makes service difficult at times, but with that said; I say it is your money and your car, do as you will and be happy, why all the argument? It is like trying to convince someone red is a better color than blue. In the words of the great philosopher James Brown, "jump back, kiss yourself, mmmm that good".


I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU 100%, and I have said this all along, it is your car do what ever you want, and most every one here has responded as adults, the bottom line is this, it is your decision as what modifications you make to your car, new members look for advice, and this is what this about, if you can afford LTH you will gain very good power, the older short headers as compared to Mach 1 Manifolds will make less I have proven this on the dyno as well Paul at Paul's High performance who is very respected in the modular community, again no one is saying not to install any thing what we are discussing is what makes the best power and its afford ability as well as ease of install. This over all is a very good post.

[musclemerc]

It is refreshing to reiterate what I stated 8 years ago,


Yes kooks is a proven product not a POS just the person that posted that is badly misstaken (enough said)

And shorties are a complete waiste of time and money.


Here are the FACTS, I was the person that built and sold this shortie headers, I used the Magnaflows X pipe and designed the ERG adapter, and you had to raise the engine on the drivers side to clear the steering, and I sold a lot of these, because there were no LTH then, now the Ford Motor sport header was made for non tumble port heads this meant 99 and back 4.6 DOHC engines they did bolt up to the Marauder but what I found out was the flange and ports did not port match the Marauder head if you ran these it left the imprint around the flange showing the restriction that is why I dropped them and sold the ceramic Mach 1 manifolds that did port match the head, I showed this years ago, Glenn is my friend he has them and that is great, if he went with LTH he would gain RWHP, but what he has works why spend the money, if you do not have the money for LTH then go with Mack 1 manifolds, I am just posting what I know.


Most every one that had shorties bought them from me, and I have a dyno with hundreds of hours on it. I have done before and after I have never seen 18 RWHP with the shorties installed with tuning yes. I can seen 20 plus RWHP with LTH and no tuning.

Yes Dennis, this is a good post with alot of information. Let's try not call names, the "waterhead and peanuthead" comments were'nt necessary. Remember your a Vendor here and you dont want your clients see you act like that. I agree, you've done countless hours of dyno time and you created your "shorty kit" some 8 years ago, I was a member back then. I also have an opinion. I think it might count for a little considering i'm the guy that most members turn to for a "true shorty" install. I've found headers (mostly for $250.00 and less), high flow cats, made egr adaptors, motor mount shims, dip stick spacers and provided plenty of free header bolts to alot of member's, mostly free of charge. So I really have nothing to gain, other than provinding accurate information.

Let's look at your old kit, yes the $1100.00 that you now admit did'nt show any gains. In my opinion you did'nt think it through. You started with stock Mach1 manifolds, and offered Cobra or "SVO" manifolds as an option. These are manifolds not headers. You did get the X pipe correct with the Magnaflow 93335, but here is where you fell flat. You went out of an X pipe that is 2.5" and chose to go into the stock H pipe. WTH???

Stock Mach1 manifolds with ceramic coating.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/9/6/9/DRCeramiccoatedcobramanifoldsR eallyGOOOOOOD.JPG


Magnaflow X pipe to stock MM H pipe. Yes your eyes are not fooling you the stock H is still intact.

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/coupling.jpg


Well now to the comment about "never seeing any gains with shortys".
You think for $1100.00 you did'nt claim some type of gain to justify the cost of the system? I remember it being something like 10~17HP.

Now on to the "real shorty" install I will use my system for example.
I'm running JBA headers PN# 1625 for 03~04 Cobra, MAC Prochamber for a 99~04 Mustang, and a set of custom 2-1/4" pipes that connect to my stock mufflers. The stock H is non existant, i'm not making the way too fast transition your kit did by reducing a 2-1/2" X to the 2" leadpipe on the stock H that further reduces to 1-7/8" at the H section.

Your execution was just wrong :shake:

http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy182/musclemerc/IMG00012-20100105-2045.jpg?t=1298604366

[MMBLUE]

Like I said earlier.:popcorn::popcorn:

[Blackened300a]

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.c om/images/thumb/2/2c/A_challenger_appears.gif/120px-A_challenger_appears.gif

[ImpalaSlayer]

:rofl: T, you da man.

PWND. Lmao

[Dennis Reinhart]

Merc he started this by calling me a moron so which is worse moron or water head. And most members here know the both of you are friends. I quit selling these five years ago when the kooks came out, and yes this was not state of the art. I did not have Buster for a welder but it was better than stock manifolds and it flowed better than the shorties that were only available then not the ones you have shown.

And as I said if you are unhappy with any vendor that is what the vendor review form is for, not laying and waiting to sneak in demeaning or slanderous remarks as you consistently do or PM prospective customers, or asking your buddies to chime in,

Have you told the members here about you getting caught hiding a illegal hyper link to SCT files that any one could download for free cheating hundreds of honest SCT dealers, as well as here like Lidio and Wess and my self, this was hidden in your signature, and the moderators had to remove it, this could have got you in court or caused this site severe issues, this also caused SCT to rewrite there license agreement, to all there honest dealers. I guess you are proud of that as well.

Or advertising products for sale that other vendors sell here, and you are not a paying vendor, so again why not quit the mud slinging and stay on topic, I can't help it you paid 1800.00 dollars for your install and that you did not ask for a written estimate so when will your jabs end. I do not post in your threads but you sure do in mine. I have tried to make amends with you, and this is what I get. I feel this has gone far enough as I am sure the other members have to, they do not want to see this crap they are trying to learn about there car again leave this lay, so a good thread does not get locked.

[HoleyMoley64]

musclemerc

I dont want to jump in someone elses dispute, but It looks to me like a brace in that picture, not an H pipe.

[musclemerc]

If you own a MM or look under your CV you'll know exactly whats in the pic I posted. It's the factory H pipe. Would you like me to post a pic of mine? It's off the car


musclemerc

I dont want to jump in someone elses dispute, but It looks to me like a brace in that picture, not an H pipe.

[musclemerc]

Merc he started this by calling me a moron so which is worse moron or water head. And most members here know the both of you are friends. I quit selling these five years ago when the kooks came out, and yes this was not state of the art. I did not have Buster for a welder but it was better than stock manifolds and it flowed better than the shorties that were only available then not the ones you have shown.

Everyone here is my friend. Anyone that has EVER wanted my assistance got it. Profit has never been an issue

And as I said if you are unhappy with any vendor that is what the vendor review form is for, not laying and waiting to sneak in demeaning or slanderous remarks as you consistently do or PM prospective customers, or asking your buddies to chime in,

I'm sticking to the facts Dennis, how are you being slandered?

Have you told the members here about you getting caught hiding a illegal hyper link to SCT files that any one could download for free cheating hundreds of honest SCT dealers, as well as here like Lidio and Wess and my self, this was hidden in your signature, and the moderators had to remove it, this could have got you in court or caused this site severe issues, this also caused SCT to rewrite there license agreement, to all there honest dealers. I guess you are proud of that as well.

I've been waiting for you to bring that to the forum so I will start a new thead.

Or advertising products for sale that other vendors sell here, and you are not a paying vendor, so again why not quit the mud slinging and stay on topic, I can't help it you paid 1800.00 dollars for your install and that you did not ask for a written estimate so when will your jabs end. I do not post in your threads but you sure do in mine. I have tried to make amends with you, and this is what I get. I feel this has gone far enough as I am sure the other members have to, they do not want to see this crap they are trying to learn about there car again leave this lay, so a good thread does not get locked.

As I have said in the past Dennis, if member's are considering my control arms the ones you sell are definately out of their reach. So what do you propose they do? My control arms are a viable option for $225.00 Shipped.

I don't know what your talking about me spending $1800.00 for an exhaust install, I'm far too cheap for that.

JBA shorty's- $175.00 shipped
Prochamber- $125.00 shipped
High flow cats- $90.00 shipped
Welding it all up- $100.00
EGR adaptor- $free
MM shims- $free

TOTAL: $490.00 :burnout:

[Big House]

How did this thread get hacked like this...we are talking about header gains.

[fastblackmerc]

FRPP Shortys FTW! (Where's Glenn when you really need him...)

Yep! FRPP shorty's all the way! :banana2::banana2:

[musclemerc]

How did this thread get hacked like this...we are talking about header gains.

OK...OK.... I firmly believe in "keeping them honest" so when the shorty bashing starts I like to provide facts so people can make a consious decision. The truth is this, i've been saying for years now the midpipe is the main problem with the MM exhaust. Get rid of it for 2-1/2" pipe and you got a winner. So if money is tight then this is the way to go:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/engine/mdmp_0904_2003_mercury_maraude r_exhaust_install/index.html

You can't do a shorty install without a midpipe swap, no way around it. But there are gains with a shorty install and it's alot more than 6HP or the 0HP as stated by our vendors. Here is a dyno from back in the day that shows 3 pulls between each pull the only thing done was exhaust upgrades, no custom tuning at all. The green line is a baseline with factory exhaust.
The red line is a pull after installing DR's "shorty" kit with the stock H pipe still intact **14.2HP & 14.0TQ gains over the stock baseline** . Finally the blue line is a pull with DR's "shorty" kit with the H pipe removed and replaced with 2-1/4" pipe **21HP & 21.7TQ total gain** .


http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15 13&d=1067915513 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15 13&d=1067915513)

[Dennis Reinhart]

How did this thread get hacked like this...we are talking about header gains.


It has not been like this for a long time, it only takes a couple of people to gang bang any one and ruin a good thread, and you can see who they are, I just put them on ignore and move on, this is a good thread, and as I said just ca-mode flush the trouble makers posts and let the moderators take care of them. This still is the best site for the Marauder and 98 % of the members are here for there car, not for personal vendetta or to start discord, enough said lets move on I hope every one has a good weekend. I know Hacki will.

[MM03MOK]

If this keeps up, this thread will be severely moderated to cut out the off-topic crap.

[SC Cheesehead]

If this keeps up, this thread will be severely moderated to cut out the off-topic crap.

Good plan.

Like it says under her Avatar, "Fear the Bunny."

[Joe Walsh]

Which Headers and which Superchargers?

These two topics always create the most contentious and nasty threads....:rolleyes:

Let's see....:hmmm:.....we've only been arguing about these two topics for.......7....maybe 8 years?

Until someone does a complete dyno test of OEM manifold vs. Mach I vs. Shorties vs. Kooks vs. SW vs. OEM midpipe vs. X-pipe vs. H pipe....
Let's face it....It aint gonna happen!
:shake:

But what your wallet allows you to buy, get it dyno tuned and run the piss out of it!....:beer:

[RR|Suki]

N/A Marauders are slow anyway, just save and put a blower on it :P

[Joe Walsh]

N/A Marauders are slow anyway, just save and put a blower on it :P

I agree!.....with the second half of your statement....:D

[RR|Suki]

I agree!.....with the second half of your statement....:D

after you do that second part you'll agree with it all!:D:banana: ... one more cuz the banana is awesome :banana:

[HoleyMoley64]

N/A Marauders are slow anyway, just save and put a blower on it :P

11s arent all that fast either:cool:

not trying to start anything, just stating something.:whistle:

[SC Cheesehead]

11s arent all that fast either:cool:

not trying to start anything, just stating something.:whistle:

For a 4,200 lb car with 281 cid engine?

[Pops]

For a 4,200 lb car with 281 cid engine?

It is easier said than done! It took a long time for the Marauder to make the 11s. Easier now with someone elses research money and time!!!!;) 22 cars are in the 11s on the time slip page. Its not that easy or a whole lot more would have made it. 6 are in the 10s and only one in the 9s for now!

[SC Cheesehead]

It is easier said than done! It took a long time for the Marauder to make the 11s. Easier now with someone elses research money and time!!!!;)

Agreed! Same holds for the 10s, and only then with a LOT of time and money to do it.

[HoleyMoley64]

Oh of course, for what it is 11s is great, but in definite terms, 11s still isn't all that fast.

[SC Cheesehead]

Oh of course, for what it is 11s is great, but in definite terms, 11s still isn't all that fast.

Define fast.

[HoleyMoley64]

10.5 or better for a street car. High 11s is quick and rarely finds competition on the street, but its still not all that fast ;) not in 2011 at least.

[RR|Suki]

11s arent all that fast either:cool:

not trying to start anything, just stating something.:whistle:

lol when you daily drive something in the 11s let me know :P

[HoleyMoley64]

lol when you daily drive something in the 11s let me know :P

As soon as I get enough money to finish the trans for my malibu, Ill call you.

[RR|Suki]

As soon as I get enough money to finish the trans for my malibu, Ill call you.

No Rush, Rasta is eternal, so I have nothing but time :banana2:

[HoleyMoley64]

No Rush, Rasta is eternal, so I have nothing but time :banana2:

lol, what? Is that some sort of zen thing?

[RR|Suki]

lol, what? Is that some sort of zen thing?

haha, something like that :D

[HoleyMoley64]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsUM7V6Ku_8

Thats all the eternity I know