shuddering

[Ravage17]

i just bought a 2004 marauder, 60k approx 2 months ago. only mod is flowmaster cat back. here's my problem.a couple of days ago between 2-3 gear the car shutters, sometimes a little bit, sometimes pretty bad. kind of like you're towing and you can feel something hold you back. i thought for sure it was a trans problem. welp i just got back from my trans guy and he thinks its an engine problem. there's no change in rpm's or anything like that when it happens other than you can hear the exhaust cut down when it happens. there's no dash lights on and my trans guy hooked it up and there were no codes thrown for the engine or trans. i tried searching around on the site and others a little bit but i didn't find much. if anyone knows whats going on please help me!!!

[CBT]

Hi, sailor! :wave:

[fastblackmerc]

I'd try a trans flush first. Refill with Mercron V only!

[thathotrodlincn]

When tranny last flushed?

[Ravage17]

i dont know when it was last flushed but the fluid appears to be brand new. perfect color, level, and smell.

[Da Dark Jedi]

Try a Trans flush with Amsoil or Redline as a fill. Marauderjack has posted with a simular problem and his solution was to use Fords Friction Modifier to clear the problem. Board members have scoffed at this but he claims it worked for him.

[Merc-O-matic]

Change the transmission fluid with NEW FoMoCo Mercon V transmission fluid!

Gotta Love It!

[Ravage17]

have you guys had this problem??? like i said my trans fluid is perfect, and my trans guy is thinking its the engine

[fastblackmerc]

Try driving with the OD off.

[Ravage17]

i did. its not as bad when the od is off because its spinning at a higher rpm. oh yeah i probably should've added that, its only during normal driving. if i am aggresive with it it goes fine

[wickedmerc]

I think what the folks above are getting at is, even though your trans fluid looks OK, if you do a flush and refill with the Mercron V, you can rule that out. I understand Ford transmissions are very picky when it comes to fluid chemistry (as are most these days).

Did you or anyone recently mess with the tune on the car? I just removed my SCT tune temporarily (;)) and the 1st time I drove it, I was certain I had a problem. The 2-3 shift really bogged the car down...and into OD forget it. I thought I was gonna stall. Tune is back on the car but I haven't driven it yet.
Good luck.

[FIVE-0]

just a thought, 3rd gear on youre trans is softend(for lack of a better frase) by an acumulator and a spring commonly known as a 2-3 accumulator. at times the spring cracks/breaks and causes a shudder or slightly harder engagement. this same accumulator can also tear (its a metal piston covered completely by rubber) causing similar problems and ultimately causing a slip. also the same trans has been know to shudder upon converter clutch engagement. this happends when youre cruising down the highway at a very light throttle after third or fourth gear has been engaged sometimes giving the feel of an actual gear shift. when this clutch engages, if there is an issue with the torque converter it can actually cause a shudder. either of these conditions cannot be repaired with a service or additive. hope this helps.
tony

[risky]

When I bought my marauder it was doing the same thing I also thought it was the trans. On 2nd and 3rd gear it would really bogged alot I would have to let off the gas pedal and then step on it alittle So it would stop doing that but once I got a tune for it the problem went away.

[Bruce Wayne]

I had this same shuddering with my '07 CVPI, I changed the fuel filter and it went away, hope this helps

[Michael]

Your car is a 2004 so I would assume you have traction control. It is winter in Chicago and lots of snow and ice. Some new owners don't realize that the engine cuts out and spudders when the traction control kicks in and they think its something wrong with the car. This problably is not the problem but turn off the traction contol and drive it for a while. You have to turn it off everytime you turn the car back on.

Another easy thing to try is maybe you got bad gas. Put in some new 91 octain gas in.

Clean your mass air meter and check your air filter also. It won't hurt to change the fuel filter like batman said, I mean Bruce Wayne.

Your car is new to you and probably needs some items serviced anyway, who knows how the previous owner treated it.

[HoleyMoley64]

Both my mark viii I used to own, and my current crown vic had the same problem at one time or another (both 4r70w cars). A filter and fluid change fixed the problem both times.

the crown vic looked to have never been changed in 200k+ miles on it.

[Blackened300a]

It can also be a bad coil that's breaking up under a load. Many members have experienced this and it only took one coil to cause a problem. Ford charges $100 to load test the coils. The engine could idle fine and even run fine under WOT but it can still break up during normal driving.
Most of the time a bad coil will not set off a check engine light.

[Ravage17]

ok i hooked it up to a new good scanner and the only code i got was p1780 which has something to do with a transmission control switch. anyone know anything about this?

[fastblackmerc]

www.google.com is your friend.

[fastblackmerc]

Try driving it with the O/D off.

[Ravage17]

yeah i looked it up. alot of it said that will come up if you dont switch your o/d switch off while running the test, which im not sure he did while running the test. other people said they had a legitimate problem with this. kind of vague if you ask me. and when i drive with the overdrive off its not as bad but thats because im at a higher rpm going into third which means the problem doesnt happen. its only while driving at a normal speed. low rpm 2nd to 3rd. im trying to find someone to load test the coils so i can rule that out.

[tbone]

I bet the previous owner changed the tranny fluid and they put the wrong kind in.

[Ravage17]

hmm this fluid thing is really being pushed on me by you guys. hell i should just do that to rule it out as well

[RF Overlord]

^^^what tbone said^^^

Plain Mercon is only good for 25,000 miles or so. My brand new '94 Thunderbird SuperCoupe developed the TCC shudder at 29,000 miles. Dealer changed the fluid under warranty and the shudder was gone.

Your ATF can be pink and clear and still be bad. All the pink/clear tells you is that the fluid isn't oxidised or waterlogged. The additive pack could be depleted and this is one of the areas that makes the difference between Mercon and Mercon V.

[Ravage17]

ok ill do it. gimmie a couple a days, ill get back to you guys. and i just want to say, thanks a whole bunch for all your replies!!!

[HoleyMoley64]

hmm this fluid thing is really being pushed on me by you guys. hell i should just do that to rule it out as well


Just remember that the governers, shift accumulators, and torque converter lock up solenoid are activated by electronic sensors (measuring engine vaccum, throttle angle, etc) along with the line pressure in the trans. By having a different fluid type than recomended you might be using something that is more or less viscous than Mercon V. This can effect the measured line pressure causing a myriad of shifting/shuddering issues
:up:

[fastblackmerc]

hmm this fluid thing is really being pushed on me by you guys. hell i should just do that to rule it out as well

It's also the cheapest solution.

[Marauderjack]

Cheapest way to test and see if it's the fluid is to add ONE BOTTLE of Ford Friction Modifier.......works EVERY time and I've been using it since 1995 in everything from Town Cars to CV's and my Marauder though it has never shuddered!!:beer:

Less than $5.00 and a cruise down the road will fix it if that's your problem!!:D

CAUTION: The FM STINKS so DO NOT SPILL ANY under your hood!!:eek::shake:

[Ravage17]

sooo it was the number 3 coil losing voltage...swapped it out...ran great...for a week or two...now starting to feel it again, not as bad, but starting to feel it again nonetheless :mad:... starting to miss my chevy caprice now. other problems, when i have a couple things on (heater headlights radio aka normal stuff) i notice i'm at about 11 volts when im sitting at idle..missing that 9c1 a little bit more now...:censor: , hood squeak was happening, ordered the rubber bumpers for the hood to rest on...worked for a week or so, came back, and i realized the screw in factory hood bumpers keep moving down on their own missin that b body even more now:mad:...also my passenger seat creaks and squeks with every decent bump in the road if no one is sitting in it...my seat makes a creak....DAMMIT i wish they made a 2004 RWD impala SS!!!:mad2:i'm losin it fellas...the 2004 MM was my dream car...and now all i find saying to myself is why didnt my 1990 caprice 9c1 have any of these problems?????i understand any used car isnt going to be perfect, but i bought a car with 57,000 miles on it..from a long time used chevy police car owner, thats practically new condition to me, yet ive never had so many little problems with a car in such a short time (had the car for aboout 3-4 months now). all i know is i'm definitely going to go get a warranty on the MM as soon as i get my loyal caprice sold...

[Ravage17]

ok so i changed the oil, changed the plugs, got a BS coil from autozone and put it on...just like before the problem at first was pretty much gone, but it starts coming back about a week or so after, and just gets worse from there. clearly something with the ignition system. plugs i took out looked pretty good. what is making these damn coils go bad??? this is way too expensive to keep buying coils for! thank god its an easy quick change out though. please somebody help! im sick of it kicking back on me! its changing my driving style dramatically, i gotta keep letting off the gas so i can push it harder so it wont get into that 1000-1200 rpm range at 40mph when its the worse (under load). when it takes $85 bucks to fill up the tank here in chicago, i would like this car to drive as smooth as possible to make at least some kind of decent gas mileage, im currently making about 14mpg in mostly city/some hwy driving.

[MOTOWN]

have you replaced your cop conectors?

[Lou]

have you guys had this problem??? like i said my trans fluid is perfect, and my trans guy is thinking its the engine


I had the same problem and the trans refil fixed it.
I had the same problem with my Cougar V8.

[RF Overlord]

got a BS coil from autozone and put it on...just like before the problem at first was pretty much gone, but it starts coming back about a week or so after, and just gets worse from there. First, what is a "BS" coil and second, why did you only get one? Which one did you replace? Maybe you have more than one bad.

Did you ever change the ATF? If not, try this little test to eliminate transmission fluid as the culprit:

Next time it starts shuddering, leave your right foot on the gas steady, and use your left foot to gently tap the brake pedal. If the shuddering stops, it's the classic torque converter clutch shudder and the fluid needs changing. If the shuddering continues, then you have something else going on, possibly ignition-related.

[Ravage17]

no i didnt replace the connectors yet. i dont know if i should do that or just buy all new coils. i dont see the sense of buyin $100 connectors, and then having to buy $300-$400 in new coils. and by BS i mean ********, as in duralast.i put in the 3rd cylinder to see if something is going on with the wiring to that cylinder. if i had the money right now to buy all new coils, i would. and i highly highly doubt that is the trans fluid since when i mess around with these coils the problem gets better, and then goes back to the way it was, but i'll try the brake thing for ***** and giggles

[Ravage17]

haha lets try this again, by BS i mean" bullcrap", and i'll try the brake thing for "craps" and giggles

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

1) Do the Trans fluid change with Motorcraft Fluid only.

2) Call Tascaparts.com for the COPS. Very reasonably priced.

3) Do you have a tune? If you do you should change the plugs from Platinum to Copper or Iridium. They should also be one range colder.
My platinum plugs were ruined after 5000 miles while on the tune.
I use Motorcraft SP505 copper plugs. They are $1.61 from Tasca or $1.48 from Rock Auto. Good for 3 years or 36,000 miles.

4) If you haven't, change the fuel filter also.



The fluid in our transmissions is only good for upto 30,000 miles.
I had the same problem until I changed the fluid the first time.
I've changed it 3 times now. I have almost 122,000 miles.

[Ravage17]

no i dont have a tune. how difficult is it to change the fuel filter?your shuddering stopped after the fluid change? i can see this making sense about the trans if it wasnt for the fact that everytime i mess around with these coils the problem goes away, them comes back again. if it was the trans fluid, wouldnt the problem be constant irregardless of what im doing with the motor? and im thinking about getting those Granatelli connectors, but ive been hesitant since i dont want to buy a set a those for $125 and then wind up having to get all new coils, although im kind of broke right now so if $125 will solve the problem, ill give that a shot.

[Ravage17]

screw it..i just bought the connectors from granatelli. hopefully they work. if not, at least they're good to have anyways i guess

[MOTOWN]

hope this solves your problem, post your results

[justbob]

PM sent...

[J.bo]

Cheapest way to test and see if it's the fluid is to add ONE BOTTLE of Ford Friction Modifier.......works EVERY time and I've been using it since 1995 in everything from Town Cars to CV's and my Marauder though it has never shuddered!!:beer:

Less than $5.00 and a cruise down the road will fix it if that's your problem!!:D

CAUTION: The FM STINKS so DO NOT SPILL ANY under your hood!!:eek::shake:

So you add the fiction modifier in addition to the new fluid or you add it after so many miles to extend the fluid change? When you change fluid does you trans fluid smell like the friction modifier? Lastly I guess it doesn't hurt anything. Correct?

[Marauderjack]

You can add it to the old fluid.....won't hurt a thing....been doing this since the early 90's with great results!!:beer: If it is TC shudder it will go away in 10 minutes or less!!

The smell goes away in a few weeks but DO NOT SPILL IT!!!:shake:

[dac99011]

I had the same shuddering issue. I swore it was the transmission. I dropped the pan and changed the fluid/filter. The problem still existed so I took it to FORD to have a tranny flush....No luck...Finally I paid $100 to FORD to review the Car computer history to determine if I had a misfire/bad coil plug... (no engine lights were on..). Yep, engine #3 was misfiring consistently and would shudder when it misfired.

I purchased all new FORD spark plugs, purchased 1 Coil Plug ($65 from dealership) and voila the shudder was gone and the performance was much improved....Now, 5,000 miles later the shudder has returned...I ordered 7 more FORD Coil Plugs from Rock Auto for $43 a piece...The FORD part number is DG-512 (4L7Z-12029-AA). I now have 97k miles so I figured I might as well replace them all then spend another $100 to find out another coil plug is bad. Good Luck!

[dbc1965]

had the same problem mis fire coil no light i was told PID GRID TO 05 MACHINES or light will not show mis fire on one coil or more some times in 06 ford change it where it will kick light on for each cylinder. In my case mis fir through boot so spark wasn't hitting on plug.

[dac99011]

Update: I installed the remaining 7 Coil Plugs I have not changed and all I can say is WOW.....the shuddering is gone and she drives like a new car!! I feel terrible for not changing the remaining earlier. There was no engine light on to indicate a missfire. Back several months ago I paid Ford $100 to review and they found one bad Coil Plug which I changed. I probably had several more bad too. $300 to purchase 7 FORD Motorcraft coil Plugs from rockauto.com and it was well worth it! The car now has 97k miles...The shuddering was minimal when I purhased the car with 81k miles...If I knew what I know now I would have changed all 8 back when I bought her.

Good Luck.

[Ravage17]

so i just got the $150 granetelli connectors- of course, didnt fix it. looks like all be buying $300 worth of new coils...anyone that wants to buy the connectors send me a pm

[Ravage17]

which part number did you go with from rockauto?

[Micahdogg]

It's a coil glitching out. Same thing happened to the wife's Aviator. You said it happens around 1200 rpm cruising at 40 with light load. Try this.

I'm not too familiar with the MM, but you should be able to start out in 2nd gear right? Try putting it in 2nd, hold the brakes hard, gently ease the throttle to the sweet spot (1200 rpm) and feel the bucking get worse - proof of an ignition problem. YOu can also cruise at 40 mph and ride the brakes hard to put more load on the car. Get REAL gentle with the gas and it might buck hard enough to kill total ignition. (which Lincoln says can't happen - though it happened to us repeatedly).

Just sucks that there isn't a better way to test the COP's other than pay Ford, in which case you may as well just buy a set.

[Ravage17]

i bought a whole new set of accels from summit for about $220 and put the granatelli connectors in them. car is back to driving fine for the first time in months. i also swapped the fuel filter with a bigger one for skits and giggles. i am extremely worried that its going to go back to what it was doing though after all this money. I have a feeling that something is making these coils go bad. say if im sitting at a red light with the air on, my volts will be at 10-12 depending on how much other stuff i got on. as soon as i start driving again, bing, back to 14. why is it going so low? bad alternator? bad voltage regulator? i bought a brand new red top optima about two months ago if that matters, but it was doing the same thing with the old motorcraft battery. but does anyone think that dropping this low on the volts will mess up these coils?

[Marauderjack]

i bought a whole new set of accels from summit for about $220 and put the granatelli connectors in them. car is back to driving fine for the first time in months. i also swapped the fuel filter with a bigger one for skits and giggles. i am extremely worried that its going to go back to what it was doing though after all this money. I have a feeling that something is making these coils go bad. say if im sitting at a red light with the air on, my volts will be at 10-12 depending on how much other stuff i got on. as soon as i start driving again, bing, back to 14. why is it going so low? bad alternator? bad voltage regulator? i bought a brand new red top optima about two months ago if that matters, but it was doing the same thing with the old motorcraft battery. but does anyone think that dropping this low on the volts will mess up these coils?

You should be fine and the low voltage won't hurt a thing with respect to your coils.....in fact the volt meters in our cars are not very accurate anyway!!:shake:

Heat kills the coils and due to where they live you cannot do too much about it!!:cool: Having a GOOD connector helps prevent adverse heating due to high resistance!!:help:

Best thing you did for the coils is the GMS connectors!!:beer: I had the same bucking back in '04 and finally put on the GMS connectors.....NEVER LOOKED BACK!!:bows: Currently have 228K miles on the original coils AND engine......it still runs GREAT!!:banana2: