Procharger question

[Motorhead350]

Well I am going to let the cat outta the bag. My GF Becky got me a Cobra shortblock for Valentines Day. ;) Looks like Zack is going to so the install too and I'm thrilled about that.

I was told the Cobra engine has a different compression than our Marauder engines. So 13psi with the blower is going to feel more like 9psi and the power will be less. I was told I would need a pulley for 16psi to bring the car back to where it is power wise.

So my question is this: Can I put a pulley on my current blower to bring it up to 16psi or does it need to be rebuilt to handle that much power? Also will I have to change the injectors to 60 pound injectors? Right now I am at 39.

Right now I know everything can bolt up and go, but I know power will be down.

So again, does the blower need to be rebuilt or can I just put another pulley on it and go?...... with 60 pound injectors and a new dyno tune.

[FordNut]

Personally, I believe a bigger (overdrive) crank pulley would be a better move than a smaller blower pulley. Bigger pulleys have more surface area for the belt, so there is less slippage.

Nice present...

[Marauderjack]

What Brian said but be cautious about impeller speed.....I remember the max speed for the P1-SC is 62K RPM's and increasing that too much may cause problems!!:eek:

[DOOM]

First of all. :congrats: Dom!!! :D

Second: if Zack is doing your install I would leave it all up to him! You know when you get it back it will be RIGHT!

[Dennis Reinhart]

Well I am going to let the cat outta the bag. My GF Becky got me a Cobra shortblock for Valentines Day. ;) Looks like Zack is going to so the install too and I'm thrilled about that.

I was told the Cobra engine has a different compression than our Marauder engines. So 13psi with the blower is going to feel more like 9psi and the power will be less. I was told I would need a pulley for 16psi to bring the car back to where it is power wise.

So my question is this: Can I put a pulley on my current blower to bring it up to 16psi or does it need to be rebuilt to handle that much power? Also will I have to change the injectors to 60 pound injectors? Right now I am at 39.

Right now I know everything can bolt up and go, but I know power will be down.

So again, does the blower need to be rebuilt or can I just put another pulley on it and go?...... with 60 pound injectors and a new dyno tune.


Can I ask where you found a 03 Cobra short block and is this from Ford and what was the cost

[TooManyFords]

if Zack is doing your install I would leave it all up to him! You know when you get it back it will be RIGHT!

^^^^ This.

[RR|Suki]

Personally, I believe a bigger (overdrive) crank pulley would be a better move than a smaller blower pulley. Bigger pulleys have more surface area for the belt, so there is less slippage.

Nice present...

True statement. OD pulley is one of my fav mods, can't wait to get to the track with it.

[Motorhead350]

Can I ask where you found a 03 Cobra short block and is this from Ford and what was the cost

Here on the site. 3500 miles on it, $1500. We picked it up.

Zack said it would be slow. Just wanna know what to do to get it back up to speed.



Personally, I believe a bigger (overdrive) crank pulley would be a better move than a smaller blower pulley. Bigger pulleys have more surface area for the belt, so there is less slippage.

Nice present...

ummmmmm wouldn't that make it slower?

[DOOM]

Zack said it would be slow. Just wanna know what to do to get it back up to speed.

Put a trilogy on it! :lol: :rofl:



:jk:

[Motorhead350]

Put a trilogy on it! :lol: :rofl:



:jk:

If I could do it all over again I would.

[LANDY]

Here on the site. 3500 miles on it, $1500. We picked it up.

Zack said it would be slow. Just wanna know what to do to get it back up to speed.




ummmmmm wouldn't that make it slower?nope, a bigger crank pulley will give you more boost and prevent beltslip at the same time.

[RR|Suki]

ummmmmm wouldn't that make it slower?

No, with a blower the bigger crank pulley spins it faster

[Motorhead350]

Alright. Will this be safe with a P1 or does it need to be upgraded? Also would I have to send this away or is this a simple task just like changing the pulley that the belt goes onto... or is this the same pulley? I am confused. Especially if it is the same pulley, I put a smaller one on it a few years ago and it went faster, now I am being told to put a bigger one on it to go faster.

Where is this one located? Internal or external?

Sorry if I sound like we are running around in circles here. I wanna get this though my head.

[fastblackmerc]

Alright. Will this be safe with a P1 or does it need to be upgraded? Also would I have to send this away or is this a simple task just like changing the pulley that the belt goes onto... or is this the same pulley? I am confused. Especially if it is the same pulley, I put a smaller one on it a few years ago and it went faster, now I am being told to put a bigger one on it to go faster.

Where is this one located? Internal or external?

Sorry if I sound like we are running around in circles here. I wanna get this though my head.

They are talking about the pulley on the crankshaft.

[Motorhead350]

They are talking about the pulley on the crankshaft.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh I get it now. Still, could the blower handle that? I know that increases the RPMs now on the blower and as posted there is a limit.

[Mike]

First of all. :congrats: Dom!!! :D

Second: if Zack is doing your install I would leave it all up to him! You know when you get it back it will be RIGHT!

^^^what the Bling Man says^^^:D

[Joe Walsh]

Dom,
If you can't figure out how the pulleys on a supercharger work, might I suggest that you avoid BIG boost levels?
A lower CR engine is exactly what you need.

Good luck with the new engine and set-up.

[LANDY]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh I get it now. Still, could the blower handle that? I know that increases the RPMs now on the blower and as posted there is a limit.

You can calculate how much your blower is spinning by your pulley sizes. You might be able to run 16 psi on the six rib. I know it can be done with the vortech kit

[Dennis Reinhart]

Here on the site. 3500 miles on it, $1500. We picked it up.

Zack said it would be slow. Just wanna know what to do to get it back up to speed.




ummmmmm wouldn't that make it slower?


It will be less power as a N/A Marauder because it is a 9 to 1 motor, the Marauder is 10 to 1 but add a NOVI 2200, 60 lb inj twin Aeromotive pumps and a SCT B5000 maf the car will easily make 550 plus.:beer:

[Motorhead350]

You can calculate how much your blower is spinning by your pulley sizes. You might be able to run 16 psi on the six rib. I know it can be done with the vortech kit

What about fuel injectors? Can 39lb do the job safely?

[RR|Suki]

It will be less power as a N/A Marauder because it is a 9 to 1 motor, the Marauder is 10 to 1 but add a NOVI 2200, 60 lb inj twin Aeromotive pumps and a SCT B5000 maf the car will easily make 550 plus.:beer:

cobra short block would be 8.5:1

[Dennis Reinhart]

cobra short block would be 8.5:1


8.5 or 9.0 it's semantics, that come to the same point as a N/A it will not be as strong with forced induction that will off set the lower compression. And make the engine safer for higher boost.

[Motorhead350]

So what about the fuel injectors? Can they handle 16psi on a Cobra engine?

[Dennis Reinhart]

So what about the fuel injectors? Can they handle 16psi on a Cobra engine?


Well the last five I have done so far has

[DOOM]

Alright. Will this be safe with a P1 or does it need to be upgraded? Also would I have to send this away or is this a simple task just like changing the pulley that the belt goes onto... or is this the same pulley? I am confused. Especially if it is the same pulley, I put a smaller one on it a few years ago and it went faster, now I am being told to put a bigger one on it to go faster.

Where is this one located? Internal or external?

Sorry if I sound like we are running around in circles here. I wanna get this though my head.


Hey Dom stop complicating s#¡t!
Just give the car to Zack have him fix it and it will be BETTER than new!

Then when you go pick it up he can explain everything to you!

[Motorhead350]

Hey Dom stop complicating s#¡t!
Just give the car to Zack have him fix it and it will be BETTER than new!

Then when you go pick it up he can explain everything to you!

I wanna know how it all works and what it can handle. Not just give it to someone and not know what was done or what it can handle. I don't like being left in the dark, I wanna hold the flashlight. That's all.

[DOOM]

Dom you know Zack won't leave you in the dark!
And he will FULLY EXPLAIN everything that was done to your car.

If you feel that way about it why don't you ask him if you can help with the install!
Maybe you can hold 2 flashlights. :lol:

[Motorhead350]

Dom you know Zack won't leave you in the dark!
And he will FULLY EXPLAIN everything that was done to your car.

If you feel that way about it why don't you ask him if you can help with the install!
Maybe you can hold 2 flashlights. :lol:

Yeah I did. Doesn't sound like he wants me around, which I understand COMPLETELY.

Also, if the car is going to be slower and it can be back to speed with a simple pulley and nothing else I wanna make sure I do it. I am still unclear how simple or difficult it's going to be. :confused:

[LANDY]

If you have 39# injectors you might be limited low to mid 500 rwhp. I'd you want more go for 60#'s

[Motorhead350]

If you have 39# injectors you might be limited low to mid 500 rwhp. I'd you want more go for 60#'s

Ok that's what I was pretty sure of.

Now I just need to know what the power output would be for a Cobra engine with headers and 16psi. Would that be over 500rwhp?

Thanks for the info. I am almost there on having all my questions answered.

[DOOM]

Dom I'll put it this way!

Put in the built motor and crank up the boost = FASTER CAR! :burnout:

I'm making 500RWHP on my cobra motor!
And I'm sure you won't have any problem doing the same! :2thumbs:

[FordNut]

Personally, I believe a bigger (overdrive) crank pulley would be a better move than a smaller blower pulley. Bigger pulleys have more surface area for the belt, so there is less slippage...

ummmmmm wouldn't that make it slower?

No


Alright. Will this be safe with a P1 or does it need to be upgraded? Also would I have to send this away or is this a simple task just like changing the pulley that the belt goes onto... or is this the same pulley? I am confused. Especially if it is the same pulley, I put a smaller one on it a few years ago and it went faster, now I am being told to put a bigger one on it to go faster.

Where is this one located? Internal or external?

Sorry if I sound like we are running around in circles here. I wanna get this though my head.

It is the crank pulley. If you bought a short block the pulley is not on it, nor is the timing cover, heads, oil pan, valve covers, intake manifold. Those parts will be coming off your old engine. All you need to do is buy an overdrive pulley before the engine is assembled. Another benefit is the overdrive pulley will be an 8-rib pulley. A 6-rib belt will still work just fine, so you won't have to change the rest of the pulley setup, just the belt size will change. But if/when you get ready to upgrade to an 8-rib setup the crank pulley is already done.

The reason a smaller crank pulley makes a car faster is that it reduces the drag from alternator, power steering, and water pump since they will be turning slower for a given crank speed. The reason it works the opposite with a supercharged car is it turns the supercharger faster for a given engine speed. The additional power (increased boost) from the supercharger more than overcomes the increased drag from the accessories. This is only true for the centrifugal setups, since the same crank pulley drives both the supercharger and the accessories.

My car has two underdrive pulleys on the crank, one for the accessories and another for the supercharger.

[Motorhead350]

Dom I'll put it this way!

Put in the built motor and crank up the boost = FASTER CAR! :burnout:

I'm making 500RWHP on my cobra motor!
And I'm sure you won't have any problem doing the same! :2thumbs:

What injectors do you have and how many psi?




My car has two underdrive pulleys on the crank, one for the accessories and another for the supercharger.

Thanks for the info, but I think you have the twin screw or at least a Roots style correct? As much as I would love two belts I don't think it can work with a Procharger.... right?

Any part number for this crank pulley or a source? Junkyards? I have no clue.

[FordNut]

Go ahead and get 60 lb injectors.

No, you can't run two crank pulleys, I was just making a comment that my setup is unique and can take advantage of both principles.

Innovators West makes the pulley, get a 10% overdrive. Lots of vendors can be found via google.

[DOOM]

Dom I have 60# injectors.

But that doesn't mean you need them!

First questions! What are your goals? What type of power are you expecting to make?

[Motorhead350]

Well this is where I am stumped. I had around 460rwhp with 60# injectors. Now I am told I will need more boost to stay in power. So does that mean I need 60# injectors? Sounds like yes, but I can survive as is.... until I change the crank pulley.

My goal is to still be able to do low 12s on pump gas, but high 11s would be cool. I'll upgrade to more as time goes on, but right now if I can swap engines, pulleys and remain where I am with speed, I will be very happy.

I expect that I will have to just bolt everything together (well not me) and drive it as is with less power.

[FordNut]

If the compression is lower and boost stays close to the same, you still might be able to make the same power. Since it is a Cobra bottom end you can put more timing in the tune to make up for the compression loss and still be safe because it has forged components. But you're also adding weight since it's a cast iron block, so even if it makes the same power you'll be a little slower because of the added weight.

[Motorhead350]

Yes I was thinking about that. Even then, how much of a difference is it? 100, 150 pounds?

[1 Bad Merc]

Dom's goal is to remain the fastest Marauder in Chicago!! :)

Glad you got the new motor Dom. Give it to Zack and dont over-complicate this motor build. He will make sure your car runs really strong when you get it back.

[DOOM]

Yes I was thinking about that. Even then, how much of a difference is it? 100, 150 pounds?

It's about a 80# difference bro.

[DOOM]

Glad you got the new motor Dom. Give it to Zack and dont over-complicate this motor build. He will make sure your car runs really strong when you get it back.

:agree:
This is what I have been saying through this whole thread! :lol:

[RF Overlord]

Dom, I applaud your wanting to know as much as possible about how your car is going to be set up, but you really need to ask Zack, since he'll be doing the work and will know what components will be needed to make your power goal.

If you made 460 with 39# injectors before, you should be able to make the same numbers with your new shortblock. You just need to up the boost to compensate for the lower CR. The easiest way to do that is with an overdrive pulley on the crank. Ask Procharger what the max RPM for your blower is and you can calculate what size pulley you can safely run.

I would strongly recommend a dyno tune when it's all done as you've changed a critical part of the equation (the compression ratio).

[99SVT]

If the compression is lower and boost stays close to the same, you still might be able to make the same power. Since it is a Cobra bottom end you can put more timing in the tune to make up for the compression loss and still be safe because it has forged components. But you're also adding weight since it's a cast iron block, so even if it makes the same power you'll be a little slower because of the added weight.

^^ What he said, you should be able to put more timing into it to make similar power. The drawback will be when driving the car out of boost it won't have as quick throttle response; Until you get to the point that the supercharger starts to kick in with some extra air. Then it will probably feel just the same as before. Essentially the car will feel more subdued while driving around normally, but be almost the same as before when you mash the throttle and get into the RPM a bit more.

[fastblackmerc]

Screw the Procharger and do a Trilogy or Eaton conversion

[TooManyFords]

Yeah I did. Doesn't sound like he wants me around, which I understand COMPLETELY.

Also, if the car is going to be slower and it can be back to speed with a simple pulley and nothing else I wanna make sure I do it. I am still unclear how simple or difficult it's going to be. :confused:

Dom, there will always be cars slower, and there will always be cars faster. If I were you, I would go for something that will give you years of enjoyment rather than a few minutes of ecstasy and then months/years of frustration.

Be happy knowing it is faster than most but also more fun. It will run a long time and take your abuse. That is what Zack will give you.

;)

[LANDY]

Screw the Procharger and do a Trilogy or Eaton conversion its a procharger thread. Let's not start a war.
PROCHARGER PERIOD!

[CBT]

lol, Dom you've had 12 motors and NOW you ask important questions!? Can't wait to see the build. Maybe I'll drive up and while Zack works on the car we can play air hockey in the basement. :D :beer:

[sailsmen]

W/ 16psi you should go with an 8 rib.

[Motorhead350]

lol, Dom you've had 12 motors and NOW you ask important questions!? Can't wait to see the build. Maybe I'll drive up and while Zack works on the car we can play air hockey in the basement. :D :beer:

Go for it. He likes you! :D

Looks like it'll be at his place in mid to late March. Come on up for a weekend. I can get you a chocolate shake when you're in my part of town. ;)

[CBT]

Go for it. He likes you! :D

Looks like it'll be at his place in mid to late March. Come on up for a weekend. I can get you a chocolate shake when you're in my part of town. ;)
I already know I'll be driving up this year, not exactly sure of the dates. :beer: Either way, it's on, homie!

[Motorhead350]

Keep me updated. You're always welcomed here.