Finally to the dealer

[dhawke98]

Well, after all the arbitration and what-not, my 03 is going in tomorrow for the new front end. Of course the dealer is not entirely sure what that means... So we'll see. What timing though! BIG puff of blue smoke on startup this morning after our 1500 mile to and from San Jose... Glad it did it here. Used a quart of oil on the trip.

YEAH soon I can start the mods on mine!!!

[SergntMac]

Consuming one quart of oil in 1500 miles isn't good oil mileage, what weight are you burning? Are you burning full synthetics, or, the recommended 5W20 synthetic blend?

Just kidding, no offense meant. I hope you get this worked out to your benefit...like with a new crate engine?

[junehhan]

I think it might be a good idea to get that oil consumption problem addressed before starting the mods. A quart in 1500 miles as Sarg stated may not be normal, especially since I don't think anyone is a true member of the high mileage club yet. What year is your vehicle??? A big puff of blue smoke is also not normal either...........

Does your engine also make the infamous ticking noise that a couple people here have experienced?

[dhawke98]

Mine is an 03 with 10200 miles on it. The dealer claims that is extraordinary high miles, though in Phoenix we average 15-20k/year. That quart of oil was actually in the first half of the trip and about an 1/8 was used on the return. Had the cruise at about 85 so not too many RPMs. Was planning to have the dealer check it out this morning, long before any mods.

As far as oil, both the dealerships I "trust" recommend using Mobile 1 10/30. They said they don't like the blend and they try to talk everyone into using it that has our motor (Mach 1 & Cobra).
Wish me luck and y'all have a great day!

[TripleTransAm]

Any idea is there is a spark plug showing greater oil consumption than the rest? (ie. number 7?)

I have no issues about the 30 part of your oil selection (especially since Mobil 1 is supposedly a "thin" 30, closer to 20, at operating temps) but the 10 worries me, especially since Mobil 1 themselves recommend 0W20 as a replacement for Ford's 5W20 spec. Oil starvation at cold starts may have accelerated the infamous #7 valve guide problem, leading to the consumption you're seeing. The oil puff at startup is most likely directly related to this (oil dripping down the excessive valve guide clearance onto the back of the valve head when the engine is off).

[dhawke98]

Not knowing the cylinder sequence (I know, bad boy) all I can say is that the puff is coming from the passenger side. I simply when with the 10-30 based on the dealer's recommendation. If they just replace the head, is it ok to switch to the 0W20 making sure to flush the system?

Funny, normally I get a rental car at no cost when I go to the dealer. Today, they said, "nope, not unless you want to pay for it sir." Funny how a little thing like an arbitration board can change things huh.

[TripleTransAm]

I wouldn't go crazy with the whole flush thing. There are some psychos out there who will go nuts with flushing their engines with clean oil at every oil change. Okey dokey...

A local F-guy (2000 Camaro SS) had his engine rebuilt by his dealer under warranty. All the bores were messed up big time, resulting in big oil consumption and cold start rattles (he could smoke screen the entire track on a run, it was that bad). Turns out his dealer mechanics had recommended 20W50 oil "because his car was a high performance car". WTF?

Oil opinions are like *********s, everyone's got one. I think, however, that the general conscensus on the low temp side is to stay with 5 or less, whereas on the high temp side it's a toss up between 20 and 30, for the 4.6l DOHC (due to valvetrain oil needs at cold startup, etc.).

[dhawke98]

Steve - Thanks for the input and feedback


Scott

[junehhan]

We have to remember, that Ford has put millions of dollars into R&D into engine oils and all of this stuff. If Ford recommends a multiviscosity oil with a 5 for cold temps, there is going to be a good reason why. It's really easy to see why it would be critical for an oil to make it's way around the engine as quickly as possible, especially during cold starts since all of the oil is in the pan. If you don't feel comfortable running the Mobil 1 0w20, I believe you can also get it in the 0w30 viscosity as well which is what I would be more comfortable running myself, especially during warmer weather............

[Murader03]

Originally posted by dhawke98
Mine is an 03 with 10200 miles on it. The dealer claims that is extraordinary high miles,

I wouldn't consider that high as I have over 43K on my '03 which was bought new with 8 miles on the clock on 11/04/02. There are several other on the board with more than that. So if your dealer considers 10.2K high, I guess those of us that really drive the car have outrageous mileage.....I have yet to show any significant oil usage between changes, and I use the 5K service interval, which runs about 45 days on average. The car is driven daily at 100+ per day mostly interstate at speed. I started with DR's stage 1 in December '02, (gears, plugs, stat). I recently installed the sway bar and MMX driveshaft.

[TripleTransAm]

I put 14k miles on my car in 8 months... and that's with THREE other active cars in my household, in which I'm the only driver! (the '78 saw no mileage for 2003, so I'm only counting the Civic, the GTA and the WS6). I hardly see 10200 miles as 'extraordinary high miles' !!!

[dhawke98]

Dealers here are nuts. During arbitration they said that I was abusing the car by driving it everyday because it is a high performance car. I asked to see where it said that it was abuse to use a car for what it is designed for, driving. Then they tried saying the front end of the car was the same as on the interceptors and those weren't having problems. I think my favourite service manager was fired because he had put in writing that it is not the same. They think it is odd to drive 70 miles a day (averaged out) but I dunno, I got the car so I could drive to San Diego and San Jose in a timely fashion and in comfort. So what if I have 10200 miles in 6 months! Tha bums!

As far as the 5W and cold weather, I LIVE IN PHOENIX. We might get to 40 degrees at night :P but the garage is still 60+ when I get up in the morning, so the car isn't cold. Oh sorry, there was one night it got to 30 ;) but the garage was still 50-60. Maybe that's why the dealers said the 10W30 was ok??? I dunno, I just know how to fix em and even then sometimes....

You know, I REALLY don't miss Maine or Connecticut! Maybe Oregon, but not New England, stationed there too long!

[CRC]

Ford like all domestic mfgs.recommends the lightest oil they can in order to squeeze 2/10 of a mile per gallon on EPA certification tests so they can stay under CAFE standards...Just my.02

[LincMercLover]

I'd hate to say... but I think that 10W killed that motor... I've heard of many police departments changing their oil with 10W30-40 and although SOHC, was pretty much the death of their motors... OHCs, IMO, just don't take to 10W well... They need something a lot thinner to stay up, and get into those cams quicker.

[SergntMac]

ditto LML.

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
I put 14k miles on my car in 8 months... and that's with THREE other active cars in my household, in which I'm the only driver!

and....you live on a little island in the middle of a river! :eek:

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by dhawke98
During arbitration they said that I was abusing the car by driving it everyday because it is a high performance car.


This quote alone is enough to banish all that will ever come from the mouths of that service department straight to the trashcan. It almost makes one want to go to the media with quotes like that...

About the low temps... just keep in mind that the 5 and 30 in 5W30 are taken at 2 given reference temperatures, one for each rating. At the colder temp (whatever it is, I don't recall), the oil behaves like a straight 5 weight would at that temp. At the higher temp, the oil behaves exactly like a straight 30 would AT THAT TEMP. In between, it's a matter of the particular oil's makeup. But chances are that a 5W30 at 60 F is still going to be thinner than a 10W30 at that same temp, since I think the temp where they got the 30 rating is fairly up there.

The "in between" is, by the way, why synthetics will pour easier at VERY low temps as compared to conventional oils. Since we're talking temps below where they'd get the 'cold' rating, the 5W30 synthetic might be thinner than a conventional 5W30, which might be goo at that cold temperature. They still behave the same way at both reference temperatures, but beyond them, it's a matter of individual composition.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by RCSignals
and....you live on a little island in the middle of a river! :eek:

My commute involves leaving the western tip of the island early in the morning, crossing through downtown (center of island, pretty much) and across the river to the south shore, where I travel another 10 minutes to get to my parents' place. There, I drop off my kid... if I have the velocity and angle just right, I don't even have to stop. ;) (although we've had to soften up the door frames just in case).

Then, it's turn right back around and head back through downtown to where we work.

At the end of the day, we travel down through downtown and back to the south shore to pick up my son at my parents' place (or at the clinic, depending on how my aim was that morning ;) ) and then turn right back around and head back through downtown and back home to the western tip.

Ad infinitum...

85 miles a day, minimum.

[dhawke98]

Well off to see the dealer as they are not answering the phone..... Let's see what they have to say that we can throw into the can ;) And Steve, you gotta teach me how to chuck the kid like that. Dropping my son off takes a good 10-15 minutes, and it is on my way!

Scott

[RCSignals]

Just amasing....:)

[kurly]

LML, SergntMac and All,

I will be taking mine in for her first check up at 3000 miles. What do you all recommend for my locale? Full or blended and in what weights?

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by dhawke98
And Steve, you gotta teach me how to chuck the kid like that.


A good haircut goes a long way, otherwise you might get some unwanted spin... and then it's anybody's guess where the little bast... er, little tyke ends up landing.

;)

10-15 minutes, eh? Man, you are just ABUSING that Marauder... isn't there like a maximum number of cold starts per day that a high performance machine like the MM can sustain before voiding the warranty? :lol:

(reminds me... I looked at my damned car again today... I'm sure there's a maximum number of times one can look at a car this high performance before it's considered abuse...)

[RCSignals]

Sounds like you are walkng a fine line there Steve, warranty-wise :lol:

[SergntMac]

Warranty? No *****...Kids get everything today. I didn't get no warranty, when my dad's aim was off, I still got the blame.

[dhawke98]

LOL Steve, too funny. See here in AZ I pretty much shave the little um buggers head so as to keep the amount of sand coming into the house to a minimum.

You know, I am surprised that the dealer hasn't said something about the number of starts yet LOL.

Talked to them yesterday and they said we saw no signs of burning oil. They had 1 mechanic start the car and that's it. How can he see the pipes (mainly the passenger side one) from the drivers seat? Anyway, they said the 10W30 is fine, but they are going to do an oil consumption check using the 5W20 and advised me, unless it is burning more than a quart every 700? miles, it is ok.... per FMC. My response is show me a car that passes emissions etc burning that much.

As far as the front end, they are still trying to figure out what parts to get. I did find out though my wife scuffed one of my rims >:( eh, 2 little nicks.

[junehhan]

LML, good point regarding oil. Also, as far as Ford's semi-synthetic 5w20 that is called for in the owners manual, it appears that the oil is more than just your average semi-synthetic blend. I was reading on the Motorcraft website, and it appears the 5w20 semi-synthetic blend oil uses a hydrocracked base stock, which is going to be superior than your average conventional oils that use a base stock that was just refined using solvents, and other chemical processes. By comparison, most of your "fully" synthetic oils also utilize a conventional hydrocracked base stock, and in fact some full synthetics like Castrol Syntec are not synthetic in composition at all except for some of the additives. Maybe we are getting our monies worth with Ford 5w20.............


Kurly, I think sticking with the factory 5w20 semi-synthetic is probably the best way to go, especially since it's still in the middle of winter. I'll probably use the Motorcraft 5w20 when I decide to do my first oil change, but will probably switch to a full synthetic like Amsoil or Mobil 1 afterwards.

[jgc61sr2002]

june - I agree using the 5 W 20 syntheic blend Motor Craft oil is the way to go.:up: I would change it at 1,000 miles the first time.

[junehhan]

To be honest, I really didn't care too much for Ford's 5w20 semi-synthetic at first, because I thought it was just your average lame semi-synthetic like all of the others on the market that claim to be semi-synthetic. But what really caught my attention is when I read that it uses a hydrocracked base stock. As I stated above, Castrol Syntec(big automotive deception game) which Castrol claims to be fully synthetic, also uses a hydrocracked base stock by comparison. If that is the case, and Ford really is telling the truth, Motorcraft 5w20 semi-synthetic can be considered a bargain as you've got full synthetic oils out there that are still using a hydrocracked base stock. Of course, this is perfectly legal since as defined by the API and SAE, a motor oil can legally be classified as a synthetic oil no matter what it's composition is as long as it meets certain performance requirements, but i'm wandering away from the original point now...........

I'm happy to know now, that Ford's version of the semi-synthetic oil is truly something different, because most of your other semi-synthetic's offered on the market by various oil companies really just take their conventional crappy product, and then blend some additives in it just to call in semi-synthetic while using the same conventional base stock as their regular oils.

As far as when to do my first oil change, that's been a toss-up as i'm not sure when. Does anyone know if Ford puts in a break-in oil in the factory fill just like Honda does in some of their engines? I used to own a Honda S2000, and it was known that the motor came with a break-in additive in the factory fill and it was actually recommended not to change the oil in that motor till at least 3750 miles. The break-in additive was also proven when some people had an oil analysis done on their factory fill as well.............

I'm not sure whether Ford does that or not, but if they do, then it might not be a good idea to change the oil too early.............

I think i'm at 1500 miles now.

[kurly]

junehhan & jgc61sr2002

OK, I will stick with the 5 W 20 syntheic blend Motor Craft oil for the 1st change.

Please let us know if you all change to full synthetic, Mobil 1, etc. and a recommended weight.

thanks for the advice!

[junehhan]

I definately do plan on eventually switching to a full synthetic, and I believe that will probably happen right between 5-6k miles. I will probably start using from that point either Amsoil Series 2000 0w30, or Mobil 1 0w30.

[Amsoil_Dealer]

Originally posted by LincMercLover
I think that 10W killed that motor...


I don't buy that at all. There is not that much difference between 5W and 10W cold flow characteristics. Particularly if it is barely used Mobil-1 10W.

Now if you said the guy was using straight 50 weight petroleum oil which is as thick as honey you might have a point. Many Porsche (OHC engines) racers have used straight 50 weight oil with great success for many years. I think they are nuts but I can't argue with success.


Don

[dhawke98]

Thank you for the vote of confidence. My dealer today said pretty much the same thing. That the 10W30 Mobil 1 was acceptable, but for their tests, they "have" to use the 5W30. I am still concerned about using it though come summer time here in Phoenix where it gets to be 110-120 most of the summer and even 20W40 seems to be as thin as alcohol or thinner....

[Amsoil_Dealer]

Originally posted by dhawke98
Thank you for the vote of confidence. My dealer today said pretty much the same thing. That the 10W30 Mobil 1 was acceptable, but for their tests, they "have" to use the 5W30. I am still concerned about using it though come summer time here in Phoenix where it gets to be 110-120 most of the summer and even 20W40 seems to be as thin as alcohol or thinner....

I would not worry about it. If Ford is happy to recomend their Motorcraft 5W20 psuedo synthetic blend for 5000 mile drain intervals regardless of the application, your Mobil-1 10W30 will hold up fine (in fact better) for those same intervals without any worries.

Don

[Amsoil_Dealer]

Originally posted by junehhan
LML, good point regarding oil. Also, as far as Ford's semi-synthetic 5w20 that is called for in the owners manual, it appears that the oil is more than just your average semi-synthetic blend. I was reading on the Motorcraft website, and it appears the 5w20 semi-synthetic blend oil uses a hydrocracked base stock, which is going to be superior than your average conventional oils that use a base stock that was just refined using solvents, and other chemical processes. By comparison, most of your "fully" synthetic oils also utilize a conventional hydrocracked base stock, and in fact some full synthetics like Castrol Syntec are not synthetic in composition at all except for some of the additives. Maybe we are getting our monies worth with Ford 5w20.............



June, Per our dicussion on PM...This is true...Particularly your last statement that the Mtrcrft 5W20 is a pretty good bargain at anything around $2.00 per qt. But, the literature does not say what percentage is petro oil (group II) and what percentage is Pseudo-synthetic (group III). I have no debate that the product is much better than any purely group II dino oil. But so as not to confuse the readers, it is not a full group III psuedo-synthetic nor a group IV full synthetic.

Don

PS: do you have any photos of your car that you can post. That sounds exactly like what I want and I'd like to see more of it....

[jfclancy]

Well Wow SO much infornation, But as in most things the more data you get should enable an informed choice. As for me I use Mobil 1 0-20 and change it at 4500-5000 miles and am quite happy with it. Currently have 17,000 miles or so on my MM and going strong.

Joe Clancy