Cam Timing/Degreeing Cams

[massacre]

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[BeanSS]

^^^
I read the other thread...im a subscribe to this one and both. Im looking for some good cheap horse power since my Marauder will be a Daily Driver. I got $150 dollars burning a hole in my pocket right now so im a going to seriously get this one done in the next month or so. My JLT just came in the mail last week so hopefully I get get some good power gains for the low before summer hits.

[musclemerc]

Please proceed....

[massacre]

Please proceed....
Please take your readings and tell me what you come up with.

[musclemerc]

WTH happened to the post Massacre?

Is there a way to stop the piston a TDC while the heads are still intact?
I would'nt mind removing the timing cover but I dont want to pull the heads.
Would you be willing to rent me your 18" wheel, and the other tools needed to do a full degree?

[massacre]

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[massacre]

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[musclemerc]

Well I was editing the post and then erased some of it by accident. I will have to type it all out again. I've done it tons of times so that shouldn't be a problem(I typed the last one from memory).

Yes, there is a way to do it with the heads on, it's the easier/better way to do it.
When I first started this, I thought I could save money by not buying the piston stop, and using the dial indicator to find TDC. What a huge PITA. The spark plug hole is so deep in the head, you have to put a ton of extensions on the indicator, etc. While it is possible, IMHO it's just worth it to get the piston stop. I got one that looks exactly like this. Not sure if this is the exact one but the long stop is so easy to use:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Long-Piston-Stop-IPA7877-/190458211191?pt=Motors_Automot ive_Tools&hash=item2c5831ab77#ht_2349wt_ 1167

I know, I know, $43 , but it will make it that much easier, and every time you use it, or rent it out, it makes it that much more worth it. This will come in handy if the wheel moves by accident, or if the crank moves a little. The first time I degreed cams, I had to TDC the crank a couple of times due to small issues like this.
I actually welded an extension on to the end of the one in the link above, that's how deep the plug wells are in the head. Not necessary, but definitely makes it tons easier.

As far as the wheel, I got mine off ebay IIRC, was totally worth it.

I ended up with this one:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/62191/10002/-1

I didn't get mine from Jeg's, but this is a good price, $45. I know it sounds like a lot of money, but when it makes the job take 1/2 as long in total, especially those of you who drive your cars to work, keeping down time to a minimum becomes more important. The 10" wheel was a joke, too small IMHO to be any good at all.

You'll need to get a crank socket, also. I used this one. Again, a tool that just works so well, it is totally worth the money:

http://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=POW1030 50&source=froogle&kw=POW103050

I'm pretty damn sure that this is the one I used, with the .255 I/D, 3/16ths keyway. I still have the box, I think, I'll double check. This tool is such a dream to use. Slide it over the crank snout, tighten a setscrew, and it's on there. Put the degree wheel on and turn the big knurled nut, it's on there.
There is a 1/2 drive square on the end, so your breaker bar/ratchet fits right there, and you're on your way.

As far as lending/renting, I'm not sure I feel totally comfortable with that. It's not even like I don't trust you, it's that I don't even lend these tools out to people I know personally. I'll come to their place and have them help me do it, but since the tools are so pricy, I'd be a little concerned about that. Plus a good bit of them have been modified/fabricated by me, yeah I could make more but that's time-consuming, ya know? I just couldn't let my whole kit go like that, I'm sorry if this offends you, but I'm just not the kind of guy to rent stuff over the internet, no matter who it was.

Thanks for the links, those are well within my reach. The crank tool looks handy to stop the slippage from a socket. I'm gonna order the tools and prepare to do the cam swap with the heads inplace.

[massacre]

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[massacre]

Glad to see there's so much interest in this subject.

Does anyone still wonder why no one has done a full write-up?

[MOTOWN]

i dont think its a lack of interest, most dont do cam swaps on these motors, because the gains vs cost of cams+labor does not justify the minimal gains, and unless you find some used cobra cams whos going to spend $1,250 for cams+install labor?

[TooManyFords]

I am watching intently and have new cams for ProRauder to install.

[musclemerc]

i dont think its a lack of interest, most dont do cam swaps on these motors, because the gains vs cost of cams+labor does not justify the minimal gains, and unless you find some used cobra cams whos going to spend $1,250 for cams+install labor?

Well, on most modular forums the member's are holding off on installing LT's and instead doing cam swaps. The gains are there, 20hp installed straight up without any advance and 20~40hp with a full degree/advance.

The cam swap has proven to be the best bang for the buck HP mod.

[MOTOWN]

Well, on most modular forums the member's are holding off on installing LT's and instead doing cam swaps. The gains are there, 20hp installed straight up without any advance and 20~40hp with a full degree/advance.

The cam swap has proven to be the best bang for the buck HP mod.

well that depends on how many bucks! for a good set of used cams great!....but for bnib $1,250 cams, ill take the long tubes.

[Chevyguy]

i dont think its a lack of interest, most dont do cam swaps on these motors, because the gains vs cost of cams+labor does not justify the minimal gains, and unless you find some used cobra cams whos going to spend $1,250 for cams+install labor?

I would agree that PAYING to have the cams degreed is not Bang/Buck effective

If you do it yourself it can be not so much $$ Multi keyway gears about the only big expense If you build engines you need some of the tools anyhoo

[massacre]

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[massacre]

Done over here.
Not enough interest.

Sorry Travis.

[MMBLUE]

Massacre, just so you know, Travis and I were going over a few things with my engine swap and such. We met up with another member who bought my old motor help him load it up etc, etc, etc.

What I'm trying to say is, I sorry that you deleted the info here about the cam swap. He and I talked at lenght about it today and I'm planning on doing the swap myself. And, yes there is a lot of interest in this thread but you got to be patient. I think a lot of members here are sitting back and waiting to see the outcome. MM 4V owners are a different breed. They're not as quick to react as the Mustang guys. JMHO

[massacre]

Massacre, just so you know, Travis and I were going over a few things with my engine swap and such. We met up with another member who bought my old motor help him load it up etc, etc, etc.

What I'm trying to say is, I sorry that you deleted the info here about the cam swap. He and I talked at lenght about it today and I'm planning on doing the swap myself. And, yes there is a lot of interest in this thread but you got to be patient. I think a lot of members here are sitting back and waiting to see the outcome. MM 4V owners are a different breed. They're not as quick to react as the Mustang guys. JMHO


Just PM me with any questions.

Same you goes for you, Travis, or anyone who has any questions.

[J-MAN]

I was reading along just for the knowledge. Very interesting, just beyond my capabilities.

Thanks!

[RacerX]

just beyond my capabilities. Thanks!

Huh? It's simple with the right tools and a good writeup. Once you have the engine in front of you and you're actually doing it, it makes sense. Well, if you're mechanically inclined...

[massacre]

Huh? It's simple with the right tools and a good writeup.

You will notice that no one has done a COMPLETE write-up.
Not sure why that is, the SHM book, MHS website, etc. all give you some pieces of the puzzle, but don't show every step.
I was thinking I may do a complete write-up, and put it on my own website with some other write-ups I've been meaning to do.

[RacerX]

There's two methods also. Intake Centerline can be off because we know not all lobes are symetrical to the keyway put in them. You would be doing the opening and closing at lift I take it? ;)

[massacre]

You would be doing the opening and closing at lift I take it? ;)

Yes, and that is the centerline method.

[1stMerc]

Post up when you complete the write up and put it on your web site.

[J-MAN]

Huh? It's simple with the right tools and a good writeup. Once you have the engine in front of you and you're actually doing it, it makes sense. Well, if you're mechanically inclined...

What ever mechanical skills I had 45-50 years ago have long since left me. Fluid changes and detailing are my limits these days. I keep my checkbook in my tool box, it's the tool I use the most. A mans got to know his limitations.

[RacerX]

I apologize. I would do the same in the same situation. Doesn't matter how it gets done, more that it's done right. :beer:

[J-MAN]

Nothing to apologize over just friendly banter among enthusiasts. I'm glad that Lidio is so close to me!

[99SVT]

Hmm, I've been waiting for a complete writeup to show up somewhere as I have an Aluminator sitting in my garage waiting for the proper time to get swapped in. I have Hyland's book as well as a few magazine articles and other resources, but they seem to be missing a few key parts. I imagine I could figure most of the details out, but I would rather not leave it to trial and error for the cam settings, as I have no intention of pulling the timing cover once it's in.

I don't check up on most of these sites every day, but I usually take a look once a week or so. I feel bad that I missed out on the writeup.

[massacre]

I feel bad that I missed out on the writeup.

I've already posted up a ton of times, that if anyone has any specific questions, they can PM me for the info.

There is a reason why I deleted the write-up here. I stand by my decision, I feel it was the right decision.