Sticky Tires with Good Highway Performance?

[John F. Russo]

This is somewhat a contradiction in terms, that is the stickiest tire is not the best for high way performance handling irrespective to.

Is it possible to get stickier rear tires without compromising highway performance? Or is what I have the best compromise?

I still have my first set of Pirelli P Zero Asimmetrico tires on my car. I have driven 16,000 miles. I would be willing to get softer rear tires even if their life is less than what I'm getting now. My rear tires have 3/32 in. and front have 6/32 in. tread.

There is an interesting article in "Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords" magazine called, "Party Time, Italian Style", p.144 of the 2/04 issue about Pirelli P Zero Corsa's and others. The artlcle states, "The Corsas are no joke. They are true semi-slicks, offering maximum dry grip and high-speed capability without regard to noise or comfort". Does this mean they are going to be noisier and more prone to jolting than the Pirellis I now have?I 'm not sure if they come in my size and are better than what I have.
A reference to the Pirelli P Zero Nero was made, "Usually the big tradeoff in ultrahigh performance tires is ultimate grip for ride quality. Not here. The Neros deliver both..." The author did mention that he has driven extensively in Saleens with these tires.

I have have read our website threads about Nitto tires. Some of you are now using them.

I want to use these tires on my car all of the time. I drag infrequently at the track, but occasionally meet up with another car at a set of lights...you know what I mean.

Now for some advice and suggestions from this magnificent web of knowledgeable enthusiasts.

To: SergntMac
I did a complete tire profile for my four tires that I mentioned to you about a month ago. But I have temporarily misplaced it. I'm patiently waiting for it to pop up.

Re: Brake Fluid. David Frey of Kenny Brown he said that Wilwood 570 DOT3 (nor DOT4) is the correct type for our cars.

______________________________ ______________________
2003 Blue 300B (Canadian) (reversed traction control, mini spare,
trunked 6 disc CD changer,clock-in-the-radio, heated front
seats, hood light)
-Born 12/10/02
-16,000 miles
-18.5 mpg at a steady speed of 80 mph
-Stock transmission (upgraded with Performance Automatic
clutches and band after stock tranny failed in 8,800 miles)
-Wheel locks (Ford)
-Badgeless front grille by “Zack”
-Zaino waxing
Kenny Brown: 6th “Signature Series” conversion (450 hp) Born
3/28/03
-Dead pedal
-Baer front brakes 14 in. two piston, vented rotors
-MMX Driveshaft
-377 RWTQ
-4.10 gears
-Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3 Precision, triple disc,
P/N469018-3
-Vortech supercharger (5 and 9 psig boost)
-Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico (front 255/45ZR18 99Y;rear
255/50ZR18 102Y)
-FordChip
-One coil of each front stock spring removed to produce
the “same” effect as an Eibach spring
-Ground clearance: 5 in.
______________________________ ____________________
1961 Ford Galaxie, 2 dr. Club Victoria, 390CID, 375hp, 4 barrel

[John F. Russo]

I pressed the button a little too fast.

First Sentence Correction
This is somewhat a contradiction in terms, that is, the stickiest tire is best for dragging, but not for for highway performance and handling. (Maybe this is not true.)

[SergntMac]

John, you updated me on the brake fluid by e-mail yesterday, thanks for reminding again.

I'ts my opinion that the P-Zeros that come on the Marauder S are the best all around tire for town, country and stop light driving. Inflate to your own comfort, PSI directly affects traction on all tires. I am considering the 295/40 on 9.5 rims for the back, but not until the spring ahead...IMHO.

[Ross]

Am I correct that the OEM tires are still the only ones made in our "unique" rear tire size of 245/55ZR18 ? I've searched and still can't find any others. In a few thousand miles I'll need a set and I'd like to stick to the stock sizes all around.

[rct]

I just replaced the back pair, had a blow out. Only ones anybody could find were the OEM.

[SergntMac]

Ross/rct...Don't be afraid to bump up one size, there is plenty of room front and rear for some hugh tires. The sizes on the Kenny Brown build are 255/45 front and 255/50 rear. Stock rims are fine. The KB cars are lowered, and the tires still clear. The front to back rake is retained, and you plant approximately 1 extra inch of rubber on the road in each corner. Many, many tires available in these sizes, check any of the popular web sites.

Y'all...I want to add an afterthought to my previous post.

IMHO, the Nitto Extreme 555 and the P-Zeros are the top two tires on the road, and they share a lot of valuable characteristics. Yet, they are separated by almost 100 bucks in cost. Why? And is the why important?

I believe the difference in cost is spent in fortified sidewall construction, and Pirelli has the strongest sidewalls on the market. This is important if you are/plan any high speed cornering, or carry passengers at expressway speeds. I just read a scary post here relating high speed driving with four adults in the car. Chilling...

Whether this is just an internet brag, or not, it's important to remember that this additional 800-900 pounds is loaded directly on the sidewall, and it's magnafied when hitting the twisties. If this the way you drive, a hundred bucks a tire seems like good insurance against a sidewall collapse under pressure.

A set of four Pirelli tires in my sizes will run me about 1200 bucks, the Nitto 555s about 900 bucks. Believe me, I'd love to save the coins and buy something else. But after driving on Pirellis this past season, I just can't do it.

[uwsacf]

I am having real good luck with Bridgestone Potenza RE730s - which are now replaced by RE750S, I think...

Great traction

Great in rain....

Most guys don't like them in snow though....

Now this is on the Impala...

I haven't need to replace the oems on the sport yet - well except for the square one....

[Ross]

So Sarge, if I went with 255/45ZR18 97W M+S on the front and 255/5055ZR18 103W M+S on the back (those are all the numbers on my sidewalls), they would fit fine on stock rims, the car would still sit the same, and the automatic leveler or ABS wouldn't do anything funny? That would give me more options.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by Ross
So Sarge, if I went with 255/45ZR18 97W M+S on the front and 255/5055ZR18 103W M+S on the back (those are all the numbers on my sidewalls), they would fit fine on stock rims, the car would still sit the same, and the automatic leveler or ABS wouldn't do anything funny? That would give me more options.

Yup. And the Nittos are really a whole for of tire for the money too.

[darebren]

the pirellis are the only option in that size on the stock rims.

Wider is better.
or
Fatter is more gooder.

[Ross]

Hmmm, I checked out www.tires.com and they had lots of tires in 255/45, but no listing of a tire in 255/50. Went to tirerack.com, and the only one they had was Pirelli, no Nittos. :confused:

[mdmarauder]

I'm in the process of looking for wider tires but nothing else is available for the rear except for the Pirelli at around $265.00 a piece in the 255/50/18 size.

Sarge I thought the Kenny Brown had:
Front- 245/45/18
Rear- 255/50/18

Am I wrong?

[John F. Russo]

mdmarauder
You are incorrect. See my car bio above which is the same as SergntMac's car "Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico (front 255/45ZR18 99Y;rear 255/50ZR18 102Y)"

SergntMac
"A set of four Pirelli tires in my sizes will run me about 1200 bucks, the Nitto 555s about 900 bucks. Believe me, I'd love to save the coins and buy something else. But after driving on Pirellis this past season, I just can't do it."


You say that you can't do it because you think that the Pirellis are superior? Is this correct?

Another Idea
What do you think of "MI2QWK4U" action. This MM owner has "Widened Factory Rear Rims 9.5 X 18.- 305/45/18 Nitto Extream Drag Radials on the Rear"

Is this the way to increase my car's traction without compromising my highway performance handling?

[John F. Russo]

uwsacf
"RE730s or RE750s
I am having real good luck with Bridgestone Potenza RE730s - which are now replaced by RE750S, I think... Great traction"

Comment
Thank you for the suggestion.
Do you have any independent data indicating whether the tires that you suggest have better traction and performance than the Pirellis that I now use?

Also, I use an odd size tire that is difficult to find.
My ciurrent tires are: Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico (front 255/45ZR18 99Y;rear 255/50ZR18

[uwsacf]

Thank you for the suggestion.
Do you have any independent data indicating whether the tires that you suggest have better traction and performance than the Pirellis that I now use?

Also, I use an odd size tire that is difficult to find.
My ciurrent tires are: Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico (front 255/45ZR18 99Y;rear 255/50ZR18

Nope......... I got mine at www.tirerack.com....

Only data I have is seat of the pants...

I can burn just about any tire on the Impala - except the RE730s - just giddyap and go... and I run 40 psi....

If they're good enough for Michael Schumacher - they're good enough for me....

The Impala has a one of a kind tire size - which only BFG (oem) and now in the RE730s...

So they may have your size!

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by John F. Russo
What do you think of "Widened Factory Rear Rims 9.5 X 18.- 305/45/18 Nitto Extream Drag Radials on the Rear" Is this the way to increase my car's traction without compromising my highway performance handling?

Well, just yesterday, I dropped off two Marauder rims at Lidio's in Mt. Clemens MI. for widening to 9.5." My plan for '04 is 255/45/18 in front, and 295/45/18 in the rear for the street/highway. I may add 305/45/18 drag radials for the track, as the season matures, but I also already own slicks.

My selection of tire brand for the street/highway has not been decided. I feel the Pirellis and the Nitto 555 Extremes are equally matched street tires, and I am getting good advice that the BF Goodrich Drag Radial gives the best performance on the track. Since I have not tested any of these tires myself, I am leaning towards the Pirelli due to past experience with the Kenny Brown selections.

John F...Drag Radials are for track use only, you don't want to use any drag radial on the highway.

BTW, I have three sets of two Pirelli tires in 255/50/18 available. These tires are worn past legal use in Illinois, with tread depths less that 3/32. They make great cheater slicks on the track for any N/A Marauder. I got my best '03 ET on them with 25 PSI.

Y'all are welcome to them, free--no charge, just pay shipping. E-me at SergntMac@aol.com for details.

[khc3]

Sarge,

Do you have a source for the Pirellis in 295/45/18? I didn't see them listed on Pirelli's site.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by khc3
Sarge, Do you have a source for the Pirellis in 295/45/18? I didn't see them listed on Pirelli's site.
Because the 295/45 is the Nitto, comparable to Pirelli's 285/45.

Let me add that anyone considring the Pirelli P-Zero Assymetrico should not dawdle until spring. The Assymetricos are being combined with the Directionales, for a four tire P-Zero system. The Assymetricos will be replaced by the P-Zero Corsa, a road racing tire.

http://www.us.pirelli.com/en_US/tyres/catalog/tyre_product.jhtml?selected=si ze&catid=US_UHP&productid=2603

[khc3]

Got it. Thanks!

edited to ask: would it be possible to put 255/40's on the front, to go with /45 profile tires in back?

[John F. Russo]

uwsacf
"I can burn just about any tire on the Impala - except the RE730s - just giddyap and go... and I run 40 psi....

If they're good enough for Michael Schumacher - they're good enough for me...."

Comment
1. I like the factual comparison of the RE730's with the other tires that you made. (I'm not sure what other tires you have used.)

Brdgestone has my front tires 245/45 18's, but not my rear tires 245/50 18's. (I could use the same size tire for all four tires). If I do change, I'll have to give up the taller rear tires. If they grip as well as you say, then it may still be better than what I have now.

They have two options for my front tires: Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Position (Max Performance Summer) and Bridgestone Potenza RE040 (Ultra High Performance Summer) front tires.

Which is the better, if any of them, since they don't have the RE730's that you are using in my size. (I plugged the size in their search engine and it gave me the above result.). What size are you using?

What about road handling except for dragging?

Anyone else can jump in and tell me what you think about these tires as compared to my Pirelli's P Zero Asimmetrico.

2. Who is Michael Schumacher? I'm a novice at this drag thing. There are far few Northerners into racing as compared to the Southerners. (But I would like to see how you would drive in snow. I am running without snow tires for the first time and I have never used a car with such wide tires. No damage yet.)


Thank you all.

[John F. Russo]

SergntMac
Thank you for the response.


I wrote my last posting not noticing your posting.

I'm still collecting data. And you certainly have it.

[Ross]

Just called tirerack.com and spoke with a nice guy named Owen at extension 647. Talked to him about height ratios, etc., and he seemed pretty knowledgeable. I think I have decided on Pirelli P Zero Rosso Assymetrico, 245/50 on the front ($185.00 each) and 255/55 on the rear ($165.00 each). Now I have a dilemma. Do I keep the full size factory spare (which will no longer match any of my tires), or bite the bullet for a new tire for a spare? If I have a flat, it probably won't hurt to drive for a ways on a mismatched tire as long as I don't go too fast, right? After all, the little donut spares are a lot different than what I will have. What do you think?

[TAF]

Ross...I personally would not change the spare unless for potential resale. It would be nice to have it match for the next owner, I guess...but...for the "utility use" the spare is intended for...I wouldn't spend the $.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by Ross
Just called tirerack.com and spoke with a nice guy named Owen at extension 647. Talked to him about height ratios, etc., and he seemed pretty knowledgeable. I think I have decided on Pirelli P Zero Rosso Assymetrico, 245/50 on the front ($185.00 each) and 255/55 on the rear ($165.00 each). Now I have a dilemma. Do I keep the full size factory spare (which will no longer match any of my tires), or bite the bullet for a new tire for a spare? If I have a flat, it probably won't hurt to drive for a ways on a mismatched tire as long as I don't go too fast, right? After all, the little donut spares are a lot different than what I will have. What do you think?

http://www.us.pirelli.com/en_US/tyres/catalog/tyre_category.jhtml;jsessionid =FFZEZQJGMIFTVFYKJOPCFFA?catid =US_UHP&productid=2647

Ross...Call Owen back and run this past him. I have 255/50 at each corner, without any problems. I like the extra large contact patch, but this size isn't available in the Rosso line, so, check out the 245/45/18 Rosso on all fours? Yes, your "rake" will be slightly more even, but not that anyone has noticed on my car. Moreover, you can adjust the rear suspension up a tad to restore that if it's important to you.

With matching tires on all four corners, the OEM full size spare will be too out of size to be of any more value to you than the donut. Buy a new spare to match, maybe fit it in with a custom rotation plan, and you may see a 25,000 mile return on your investment.

BTW, the Rosso is still a "assymetrical" design, not directional per se, but intended to be mounted "this side out." You should be able to continue with a normal rotation plan, and include the spare in that too. Buy 5 in one size, it's money better spent. Those prices are inviting, I may call Owen too.

Funny how the larger tire is cheaper, must have something to do with inventory. I hope Owen's advice was not inventory driven too.

[Ross]

Thanks, Sarge, I'll call him and check it out with him. I figure I have another couple of thousand miles on my tires before they need to be changed, so it's time to do something pretty quick. Actually, getting about 28K on performance tires isn't too shabby.

[bob35222]

Sarge,

Have you had the traction control or ABS modified (or does your Kenny brown not have Trac CTRL.) There have been many threads that discussed the effects of same sized tires on the traction control functioning. Thanks

[uwsacf]

Comment
1. I like the factual comparison of the RE730's with the other tires that you made. (I'm not sure what other tires you have used.)

Brdgestone has my front tires 245/45 18's, but not my rear tires 245/50 18's. (I could use the same size tire for all four tires). If I do change, I'll have to give up the taller rear tires. If they grip as well as you say, then it may still be better than what I have now.

They have two options for my front tires: Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Position (Max Performance Summer) and Bridgestone Potenza RE040 (Ultra High Performance Summer) front tires.

Which is the better, if any of them, since they don't have the RE730's that you are using in my size. (I plugged the size in their search engine and it gave me the above result.). What size are you using?

What about road handling except for dragging?

Anyone else can jump in and tell me what you think about these tires as compared to my Pirelli's P Zero Asimmetrico.

2. Who is Michael Schumacher? I'm a novice at this drag thing. There are far few Northerners into racing as compared to the Southerners. (But I would like to see how you would drive in snow. I am running without snow tires for the first time and I have never used a car with such wide tires. No damage yet.)


John - my Impala size is 255/50 ZR 17 - one of a kind to the Impala...

My only comparison on this car is vs the stock (same size) BFGs which came on the car....

they exhibited bad traction both dry and squirrely wet...

The Potenzas grip both directionally and laterally so cornering is great and launch is but a chirp and go instead of boiling hides...

It is considered until recently a must have tire for autocrossing which amazingly there are a lot of Impalas that do...

Watkins Glen even has a class for Impalas - which I watched one day on Speed...... very cool and weird at the same time.

Those RE040s you mention sound super sticky and probably short lived????? the RE730/RE750s are getting around 40k...

Although, many Imp owners do NOT like them in the snow - I don't know - I don't drive in it....

Michael Schumacher is the 5 time (in a row yet) World Champion Formula 1 driver for Ferrari..... (winningest driver ever passing Fangio this year and Aryton Senna last year....

He receives $50 million per year plus endorsements for doing this... and Ferrari gives him a little 'ol F50 to drive around town!!!

Hope I answered all the questions I could

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by bob35222
Sarge, Have you had the traction control or ABS modified (or does your Kenny brown not have Trac CTRL.) There have been many threads that discussed the effects of same sized tires on the traction control functioning. Thanks

No Traction Control on my car, just the standard ABS. I know of the threads you mention, but I never read any reports of same size tires causing a problem with the Traction Control. After all, it can be shut off, right?

[John F. Russo]

SergntMac
"No Traction Control on my car, just the standard ABS."

Clarification
Are you saying that you have removed the traction control permanently or have you just pressed the button on the dash to "OFF"?

[FordNut]

John,
I believe he's saying he has a 2003 300A which did not come with traction control.

[stumpy]

Originally posted by SergntMac
John F...Drag Radials are for track use only, you don't want to use any drag radial on the highway.
I say Yes and No, Yes in good weather but NO in bad!

Certain DRs are very street able and I'm pretty sure that are all are DOT approved. The BFG DRs are steel belted and handle very well on the road. Same goes with the Nittos, you'll probably get a good ride with them too but don't expect them to last forever. However, and this is where I say NO, I wouldn't want to be caught on the road with them in bad weather.

They are permanently mounted on the rear of my vette, but then I never ever drive the vette in bad weather. Likewise, I don't drive the Impala in bad weather as I have a 4x4 pick up for that.

HTH

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by stumpy
I say Yes and No, Yes in good weather but NO in bad! They are permanently mounted on the rear of my vette, but then I never ever drive the vette in bad weather. Likewise, I don't drive the Impala in bad weather as I have a 4x4 pick up for that

Thanks for posting this stumpy, you have helped me explain something I believe many have missed. Forgive me for sounding critical of you, I am not, nor do I mean to convey that.

Stumpy, your "experience" is based in what clouds are over your house, and what they look like in your AM, right? This is what I was trying to explain. Different perspective, different point of view?

My "experience" is based on MY driving habits, which are specifically vague. At the drop of a hat, I can be heading out over the road, travelling Interstates between major cities, and not only changing time zones, but constantly changing weather zones too. My experience is quite different from your experience, yes? Therefore, my caution given here about driving a "drag radial" designed tire over the road (OTR), is good advice, now do you agree?