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As many of you owners may know, Mercury changed the sound of the exhaust one week before the car went into production. They thought the car sounded too throaty. They accomplished this by adding baffles to the exhaust tips. I have located a few pair of the original factory tips without the baffles. These are identical in exterior appearance to the ones presently on the car, but sound like the car looks. They should run about 126./pr plus shipping. Let me know if you are interested, and I'll see how many I can get my hands on.
JFB
Ummm.... Huh? Is this some kind of SuperTrapp type thing?
Where are these baffles, and why wouldn't I just pound them out with a broom handle?
Where's my flashlight; I've got to look up my tailpipes!
-Jim
Slowpoke
11-26-2002, 09:55 AM
Yeah - even I got a hammer!! Let me at those damn baffles!
grzellmer
11-26-2002, 10:36 AM
Somebody take a look and see if we can get the baffles out. (Without damage of course.) I for one would like to get just a bit more rumble without having to replace the mufflers.
Z
You can not remove them without destroying the tip. They are welded on the inside, way back in the tip. They are cylindrical, and if you look in with a light, you will see them.
cyclone03
11-26-2002, 11:13 AM
I just went out with a flashlight and inspected the tailpipes on my Marauader,theres nothing that looks like a baffle inside my pipes all the way to the bend near the tire.
About 10" back (foward if you wish) from the tip opening the pipe necks down to the same dia as the rest of the exhaust system.
To remove that piece I'm sure would reqiure cutting off the tips then cutting out the inside piece and rewelding to install.
Big PITA and to pay to have it done I'm sure would cost more than new mufflers of your choice.
Mikeenh
11-26-2002, 11:54 AM
My MM was made in June 02. No baffles that I can see back to the bend. Back in March I talked to a salesman that saw the Marauder unveilling in Las Vegas.
He said the car was very loud then. Anybody out there change their whole exhaust system that knows what's inside?
LincMercLover
11-26-2002, 12:04 PM
Well, you'd have to cut the tips off anyway to put these on. I'll have to take a looksie when I get home today...
I thought you were selling your Marauder. And, that meant no Mercury godhead badges....
So what's the deal on the car and the badges?
Fourth Horseman
11-26-2002, 02:05 PM
Just went out and shined a light down the exhaust of my Marauder. No baffles in sight.
The original tips do not reduce down to the pipe size. the difference in the two diameters is the baffle. there is no need to switch mufflers to have the car sound right. anyone who heard the pre-production models know the difference. The rear lid badges proved more expensive than I thought, and figured no one would want to pay $150. I can still produce them if Iget at least 12 orders. These original exh tips have a limited availability(probably a total of 12 pair). This is the best improvement you can make for the money.
JFB
I'll go for $150 for the pair (front & back) if they look just like the one you pictured back in October...
Any other takers?
SergntMac
11-26-2002, 02:26 PM
ahhh...excuse me, I'm not a muffler guy, but something isn't adding up here. I'm more concerned about performance than sound, but sound is important too.
If the evil baffles are hiding anywhere in the tail pipe, how does changing out mufflers work? Shouldn't we just replace the tailpipes? (if so desired)
If the evil baffles are in the "tip," as JFB stated, can't we just remove the tips and hollow them out? (if so desired)
Moreover, wouldn't this 11th hour "change" by LM affect other sub-systems? Increased backpressure? Emisions? So many tips, and EECMs, and so little time...
I'm baffled...While my MM constantly has me asking myself "how did they do this", now I'm wondering how they did that...
I think a plumber's snake may help us figure this out, any volunteers?
It's not really a baffle then, it's a resonator. The 'extension' of the exhaust pipe inside the larger diameter exhaust tip reduces some of the 'megaphone' effect of the larger pipe, and as well probably breaks up some harmonic resonance that would have an amplifying effect at certain frequencies.
Check out my cool drawing to illustrate:
http://www.pictobot.com/Image_Store/Previews/640x48075Hide_RandomAutomotive MarauderExhTip.jpg
Interesting conundrum...
A cut-off wheel on a long shaft (threaded rod) could be used to cut back this inner pipe without too much trouble, I'll bet...
Who's trying before me?!?
-Jim
Fourth Horseman
11-26-2002, 03:00 PM
If that's the way it works in Jim's picture (nice drawing Jim!) then I say leave it. The addition of the Flowmaster 40 mufflers on my car really made it sound better. Louder, yes, but more throaty as well. A _lot_ more throaty. If the tips are working as resonators then they're not doing anything bad; at least not to my ears.
MAD-3R
11-26-2002, 03:02 PM
I wonder if the tips could be pulled out and have them extend maybe an inch or two more. Have the same effect as cutting off that much, and have the tips just that much more visable with out being to obnoxious about it. Need to look at it this weekend.
jim's drawing is almost correct, except the space between the two pipes is filled with baffle material, and sealed at the outer end. There is no way to remove it without ruining the tips. These are 2 ft long polished stainless tips for less than $130. They were left unused when ford made the change. I got to hear and drive the prototype car, and you can't believe the change. Not performance, but attitude (sound).
tetsu
11-26-2002, 03:12 PM
JFB have you swapped yours and heard a big difference?
I'd be up for switching them if they reall loud and growl it up alot.
Johnny
Murader03
11-26-2002, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by JFB
The original tips do not reduce down to the pipe size. the difference in the two diameters is the baffle. there is no need to switch mufflers to have the car sound right. anyone who heard the pre-production models know the difference. The rear lid badges proved more expensive than I thought, and figured no one would want to pay $150. I can still produce them if Iget at least 12 orders. These original exh tips have a limited availability(probably a total of 12 pair). This is the best improvement you can make for the money.
JFB
JFB,
Count me in for the badges if the cost covers both, if not, let us know!
Brian
11-26-2002, 03:23 PM
Jim has hit it pretty close to the mark. There is also a "cap" welded on at the end of the exhaust pipe extension, and some holes drilled in the exhaust pipe extension, creating the "baffle" that JFB refers to. No change in backpressure, as the extension just extends the diameter of the exhaust pipe for a few more inches into the tip.
The extension of the exhaust pipe into the tips was done starting with a later prototype phase of the Marauder to get rid of some VERY annoying airborn exhaust "modes" that existed in early prototypes without the tip extension and "baffles" - resonances where the long, cylindrical constant diameter of the tips set up a boom, much like a pipe organ in a church sets up a tone. That boom was right on top of a passenger cavity mode, and believe me, these resonances weren't sporty or performance sounding, just boomy. One of the worst modes was at 45mph in 4th gear - ~1800rpm if memory serves me (don't quote me on that one). So, when you were commuting on the surface street at 45mph, you had a difficult time carrying on a conversation, because you had an exhaust boom filling the passenger compartment - no thanks. The tip baffles have no major affect on overall sound level, they just break up the resonanant peaks.
Early prototypes had a much louder exhaust note than later Marauders because they had different innards in the muffler. There was definitely a louder exhaust note and more idle burble with the earlier mufflers...... Those early prototypes also didn't pass the legal passyby noise requirement tests that an OEM manufacturer has to meet..
Murader03
11-26-2002, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by JFB
jim's drawing is almost correct, except the space between the two pipes is filled with baffle material, and sealed at the outer end. There is no way to remove it without ruining the tips. These are 2 ft long polished stainless tips for less than $130. They were left unused when ford made the change. I got to hear and drive the prototype car, and you can't believe the change. Not performance, but attitude (sound).
Put me down for set, and let me know how you want payment by private e-mail.
Thanks!
SergntMac
11-26-2002, 03:25 PM
Bravo, Jim...cool drawing too. But...
Shouldn't we first find out what's is where, if there at all, before we scheme a repair?
Let us first confirm that any obstruction exists. A plumber's snake should tell us something. One of us must have something like it in the garage, just run the snake down the pipe until it stops, mark the stop point and pull. Measure...what's up. If we get as far as the muffler, there isn't anything to cut out. If we don't, it's debate time.
If an obstruction is present, shouldn't we first confirm if it helps performance, or, hinders that. Is an open pipe good, or bad? A simple examination, yes?
If we have a good thing, we keep what we have. If it's bad, we remove it. That answered, we concern ourselves with the "audible cosmetic" factor, (as I have been myself) and simply ditto this logical process one more time.
No performance issues, but the ***** barks...Cut.
If her bark reduces her bite, think about it, and name your poison.
SergntMac
11-26-2002, 03:31 PM
nevermind...
The chrome tips are falsies afterall...
I knew it, I just knew it...
Mine sounds fine @ 6K miles, for me...and the tips look GREAT even if they are "falsies".
Once again...Brian steps up to the plate with the real answer. We sure are glad you're around, Brian.
Fourth Horseman
11-26-2002, 03:37 PM
Based upon what I hear my exhaust sound like after my muffler replacement, I think Brian has it right.
This baffle thing is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.
According to the folks who designed the exhaust system(a personal friend at Faurecia) for Mercury, the ONLY change was the baffles or resonators as they may be more properly called. I have two pair left if anyone is interested. Here is a copy of the original correspondence with the designer.
Jerry,
I may be able to get him some different tips.........The ones on his are baffled. I may have two of the original tips from prototype. This would change the sound and take out the sissy sound...lol. I'll let you know if I can get them. Hey I got a neat present in the mail yesterday...A CD ROM from Mercury...It is cool..I love it. If you didn't get one I'll send you this one to see..
Where is Belleville????? I would like very much to go...Please let me know and I'll make plans
""I will inquire on the original system from our mother plant. Man these cars are going crazy is sales!! We have doubled our production...
I hope your friend likes that car..And sorry for the sissy sound...Ford changed it in the last two weeks before PPAP... made us baffle the tips. I'll work on it..
Thanks for the invite!!!
Todd
bozobill
11-26-2002, 04:09 PM
MAD-3R:
I installed a pair of Flowmasters #42441. They were a few inches shorter than the stock cans. With the addition of a couple of SS pipe lengths the stock muffler length can be replicated. Adding longer pipe lengths to get the look you're asking about would move the exhaust pipe (and of course the MEG tips) but would also place the "axle hump" of the exhaust pipe too far rearward and probably allow the downslope of that "hump" to come in contact with the axle. Not good. Also it's critical to keep the exhaust pipe well away from the rubber boots on the airlift shock.
Alrighty then, I would say that for not even LOOKING into my tailpipes, I was pretty close!
Now that I've taken the time (after driving home from work) to peer into the end of my tailpipe with the aid of my trusty maglite, I see the 'cap' between the inner and outer pipes, as well as where the holes are for the baffling. Got it; it's indeed controlling resonance, as I postulated... Obviously no joy for my low-buck 'rip it apart' suggestion.
Don't know why I even suggested it, as the exhaust note pleases me, for the most part... The change to 4.10 gears moved the 'cruising' RPM up, and it's a bit louder at that RPM. Truth be told, I prefer the near silence that my old gears afforded at cruise on the interstate.. Can't have everything, I guess!
BTW, for my book, Brian seems suspiciously articulate on this subject...
-Jim
SergntMac
11-26-2002, 05:01 PM
I agree with you, Jim, "Brian" seems in be the one in the know afterall.
You said it first my friend, and what you said reminded me of my bikes from the early '90s, but only briefly. Yes, it seems a "supertrapp" style exhaust system afterall, a system I first met on my '91 CB650-4. More chrome than go.
No real need to be worried about this stuff right now, eh? A miniscule tuning point we can address down the road? However, Brian seems to caution us, that to modify our exaust system now, may also produce unpleasant results. Can't help thinking about how my repeating "what?" to the babe of the evening may make her wonder if I am deaf, or, worse that that, disinterested. As the English may express, "Bad form, mate." You agree?
At some point (and depending on other upgrades), I think that a "head to tip" rebuild may be the thing to consider. Reinhart has a set of full length headers with very efficient (and sexy, okay?) collectors planned and I might add them in my "front to back" look-see. However, until other (more recent editions) of this ***** are on the street, what I got works...falsies or not.
For today, we got the true bad. Tomorrow...Is another story.
This reminds me of the stock exhaust on the Impala SS', they have mufflers in place, but right before the turn down tips underneath the quarter panels are large resonators, which take out the drown at low RPMs.
A lot of SS guys just cut them out, or opt for a new after-market cat back kit like I did.
Jeff<<<Keep us posted.
chapel1
11-26-2002, 07:19 PM
On a retun trip from Northern Wisconsin we traveled with another couple who were in another car.At one point I stomped on my Black Beauty to give the other couple a little sound.He usually drives a vette,we had two way radios and my buddy called up to say he could hear me for three car lengths as I roared away at 75 plus MPH.We talked later and both of us agreed that the driver can't really how loud his car is?He says everyone tells him how loud his stock vette is,but does't seem that loud to him.Being I'm always moving I guess I'll never know really how loud my car is,unless one of you guys pass me! See Ya the street.
chapel1
11-26-2002, 07:21 PM
On a retun trip from Northern Wisconsin we traveled with another couple who were in another car.At one point I stomped on my Black Beauty to give the other couple a little sound.He usually drives a vette,we had two way radios and my buddy called up to say he could hear me for three car lengths as I roared away at 75 plus MPH.We talked later and both of us agreed that the driver can't really how loud his car is?He says everyone tells him how loud his stock vette is,but does't seem that loud to him.Being I'm always moving I guess I'll never know really how loud my car is,unless one of you guys pass me! See Ya on the street.
LincMercLover
11-26-2002, 08:04 PM
Such a great story, he had to tell it twice!!! LOL! Just messin' with ya chapel1! :D
chapel1
11-26-2002, 10:09 PM
LincMercLover I caught my word omission in my send-off and did'nt want you guy's to think I don't know good english?If it was'nt for the marauder I wouldn't be trying to recall my typing skills from HS beforePCs.This site is fantastic and I love reading everones entries.My real point is our cars my be louder then we think.I have had others tell me they thought my MM sounds great.I can't see mess with it unless it's a mod for more HP?
Katmandu
04-15-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Jim
Alrighty then, I would say that for not even LOOKING into my tailpipes, I was pretty close!
Now that I've taken the time (after driving home from work) to peer into the end of my tailpipe with the aid of my trusty maglite, I see the 'cap' between the inner and outer pipes, as well as where the holes are for the baffling. Got it; it's indeed controlling resonance, !
BTW, for my book, Brian seems suspiciously articulate on this subject...
-Jim Since Jim's pic no longer appears, what's the final say on the tips ??
Are the tips Resonators or Baffles (W/packing material inside of them) ?? :confused: :confused:
RF Overlord
04-15-2003, 12:49 PM
According to Merriam-Webster on-line:
Baffle: to check or break the force or flow of by or as if by a baffle
Resonator: a device for increasing the resonance of a musical instrument
Resonance: the intensification and enriching of a musical tone by supplementary vibration
So I guess it's a baffle that acts as a de-resonator...
...not to be confused with Prof. Frink's de-bigulator...
Originally posted by RF Overlord
According to Merriam-Webster on-line:
Baffle: to check or break the force or flow of by or as if by a baffle
Resonator: a device for increasing the resonance of a musical instrument
Resonance: the intensification and enriching of a musical tone by supplementary vibration
So I guess it's a baffle that acts as a de-resonator...
...not to be confused with Prof. Frink's de-bigulator...
Was that in a mayonnaise jar, on Funk & Wagnall’s porch...
Perfectly stated by the "man who lives in a van, down by the river"...
CRUZTAKER
04-15-2003, 03:08 PM
I really wasn't aware of what a MM sounds like until I heard Wolfe rumble up the drive to pick me up. He has new proto pipes on his, and it was quite exilerating...like a bird on a spring day.
A BIG bird!
Katmandu
04-15-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by RF Overlord
According to Merriam-Webster on-line:
[b]So I guess it's a baffle that acts as a de-resonator...
Roger that.
Baffles and resonators do basically the same thing. Reduce or Change the exhaust's tone/sound level.
Baffles "should" muffle the exhaust tone a bit MORE than resonators I would think, based on the filling material that's inside them.
I have a pair of Resonators on my P71 right now. I'm pondering swapping them out with a pair of baffled (hopefully) MM tips. I want to tone down my P71s exhaust note a tad and give it more of a Throaty sound.
That's why I need to know if the MM Tips are BAFFLES or RESONATORS.
LincMercLover
04-15-2003, 11:12 PM
RF, you baffle me sometimes... or would that be resonate?
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