EATC O-Ring fix didn't work. Still blowing out defrost and floor only..

[ReefBlueCoupe]

What is the next step? I checked and listened as closely as I could under the hood for vacuum leaks. Also looked inside the hole where the EATC mounts and checked the vacuum connections I could see in there. Everything seemed solid. I actuated the EATC while holding it in my hand and it made vacuum sounds when I switched from vent to floor to defrost etc, except nothing happened.

I had a 94 Oldsmobile that had this problem, and the problem was a vacuum checkball unit that had three different vacuum lines running to it. Do the Panthers have anything similar?

Other than EATC o-ring problems, what have members here found to be causing this in their cars? It never blows out the vents whatsoever. Not even a little, no matter whether I'm cruising or under a load such as a hill.

Edit: Oh, and when this started about a week ago, I had air out the vents when I first started the car, but that only lasted a few minutes. After a couple days, air out the vents at all.

[CBT]

Have you tried this? Post #3....

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=71741

[ReefBlueCoupe]

Have you tried this? Post #3....

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=71741

Thanks, but fan speed and controls work fine.

[CBT]

Thanks, but fan speed and controls work fine.

Blend door actuator?

[ctrlraven]

I had the same problem, when I did the O-rings I also replaced my AC Check Valve which is on the firewall behind the passenger side head/middle of the wall. I got 90% vent back but when I select floor it still comes out floor & defrost.

I gave up on it.

[ReefBlueCoupe]

Blend door actuator?

The blend door controls temperature only. There is no temperature or fan problem, only vent/defrost/floor selection problem.

[ReefBlueCoupe]

I had the same problem, when I did the O-rings I also replaced my AC Check Valve which is on the firewall behind the passenger side head/middle of the wall. I got 90% vent back but when I select floor it still comes out floor & defrost.

I gave up on it.

I'll check that.. I assumed it could be something like that (see original post) but didn't know were they were. Do you know if there is more than one?

Does anyone here have a climate control vacuum diagram they can post? I'd like to trace everything from start to finish.

[CBT]

I'll check that.. I assumed it could be something like that (see original post) but didn't know were they were. Do you know if there is more than one?

Does anyone here have a climate control vacuum diagram they can post? I'd like to trace everything from start to finish.

I have the big red book at home, i can check it later and see if it has it if no one beats me to it.

[fastblackmerc]

Send an email to me at fastblackmerc at att.net and I'll respond with a diagram.

[CBT]

I have the big red book at home, i can check it later and see if it has it if no one beats me to it.


Send an email to me at fastblackmerc at att.net and I'll respond with a diagram.

lol, well that didn't take very long. :beer:

[ReefBlueCoupe]

Thank you both. E-mail sent.

[ReefBlueCoupe]

Here are the diagrams in case anyone else needs them.

Based on the symptoms and what I've "fixed" already, I'm going to check the vacuum canister, lines, and the check valve first.

http://i.imgur.com/LCpiu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ywHmJ.jpg

[ctrlraven]

I'll check that.. I assumed it could be something like that (see original post) but didn't know were they were. Do you know if there is more than one?

Does anyone here have a climate control vacuum diagram they can post? I'd like to trace everything from start to finish.
I knew I took a pic of it and had it somewhere.

This is the AC Check Valve. The Yellow handle is the trans dipstick to give you an idea of where its at. I believe the part was $10-20 from Ford.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/ctrlraven/marauder/DSCF1395Medium.jpg

[Got_1]

air blowing out of defrost only is a default mode usually caused by a blown fuse. check fuses first

[SC Cheesehead]

air blowing out of defrost only is a default mode usually caused by a blown fuse. check fuses first

Usually occurs when the O-rings in the EATCare shot, IIRC; haven't heard about it being a fuse issue.

[fastblackmerc]

air blowing out of defrost only is a default mode usually caused by a blown fuse. check fuses first

Correct about the default mode... incorrect about the fuse.

[Got_1]

Correct about the default mode... incorrect about the fuse.

ive seen it many times. not specific to the marauder but in general to Ford. Fuses should be the first things checked when diagnosing a possible wiring concern.

[racorcey]

If after all the other good info here fails to produce the desired result, look here: http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1055784&postcount=36

Basically, I found that the solenoid vacuum manifold was leaking. The 0-ring fix will not fix this particular problem.

[fastblackmerc]

I may have a fix.

You'll need a small aquarium pump, about 24" of airline tubing (got mine at Wally World for less than $9.00), 4 x 5/16" vacuum caps, 4 x 1/8" vacuum caps (can find these at any FLAPS) and a tube of Loctite Instant-Mix Quick Set 5 Minute Epoxy.

After marking the solenoids and the corresponding positions on the vacuum tree, remove the solenoids off the vacuum tree, they are just held on with two small clips, spread the clips and the solenoid should come off. Remove the small check valve inside. Remember how the check valve comes out.

Put the 5/16" caps on the big tubes and the 1/8" caps on the outside small ports. The center port is for the vacuum supply. In our case we'll be using this port for to test. You'll notice that there is one port left. This is a port to nowhere....... we won't be using it

Fill up a sink with 3 - 4 inches of water, enough to submerse the vacuum tree assembly.

Plug in the air pump, connect the air line to the middle port and put the whole thing in the water. You will have to hold the airline on the port.

If the vacuum tree is leaking you should see some air bubbles. The one I found were on the side that has all the voids.

After drying off the vacuum tree, I cleaned the areas with some rubbing alcohol, and dried the area.

I filled in the area with the epoxy until it is level with the top.

After it's dry... about 6 minutes or so, test it again, you should see no bubbles.

Reassemble the solenoids onto the vacuum tree. There are splines on the bottom portion of the tubes, these need to line up with the metal bottome ring of the solenoid. Just rotate the ring until the solenoid slips on the tube. Don't forget to add the check valve to each tube before installing the solenoids, and make sure the spring in inside the solenoid.

Make sure you have the solenoids in the correct positions on the vacuum tree.

Put everything back together and reinstall in your Marauder.


Thanks to racorcey :beer: for his post about doing this. I just added a few "upgrades".

BTW... I just tried this on a members EATC, fixed the leaks but couldn't fix the EATC.... I think he's got a bad solenoid.

[racorcey]

I may have a fix.

Thanks to racorcey :beer: for his post about doing this. I just added a few "upgrades".

BTW... I just tried this on a members EATC, fixed the leaks but couldn't fix the EATC.... I think he's got a bad solenoid.

Thanks, Jim! I like it when I can actually contribute something to the digest instead of just taking.

As Jim has done it, epoxy is the way to go. I wanted to try some RTV, but you need a special kind that's not normally found on the market (but I have at work). Instead, I used high-temp hot-melt glue. The advantage of the epoxy is that, if you get the right kind, it will flow semi-liquid like, and fill in (around, through, and on top of) all the gaps, holes, cracks, etc., very cleanly and nicely, that are leaking. My hot melt glue was very close to the epoxy, but not quite like it.

And, even after that, I still have some vacuum leaks around the vacuum manifold (or "tee" as Jim has refered to it). At least it's enough to allow the ac system to work properly. But, I'm not happy with it.

So......

I went online looking for some "inexpensive" EATCs. Turns out to be one of the original oxymorons. However, I did find a unit from a Ford truck, and, from the pics, looked close enough to maybe play with. Got it for $60 with shipping.

It came in today, and when I took it apart, I was a little disappointed, BUT, I think I can still use the manifold. This unit actually has the solenoids tack-welded to the holding frame. I attached a picture. In addition, the wiring to the solenoids is slightly different. Whereas our version shares a common ground wire, resulting in a 5-wire harness to the PCB connector, this unit has all the wires separated out, resulting in an 8-wire harness.

My main experiment was to see how well the vacuum manifold held vacuum. I tested it, and - it held a full vacuum for at least 20 minutes after shutting off the vacuum pump. My current MM one holds vacuum meaured in milliseconds.

So - the bottom line here is.....besides needing a good set of sealing o-rings, a vacuum-tight solenoid vacuum manifold is also a requirement. From what experiences I've seen here so far, plus my own, as well as Jim's experience, a certain number of us are going to be hit with bad manifolds and/or bad o-rings.

JIM - if you friend does indeed have a bad solenoid, I can probably strip one from the (new) set that I have and send it to you. You would only have to wire it in. Sure beats having to buy a whole EATC!

[fastblackmerc]

Thanks, Jim! I like it when I can actually contribute something to the digest instead of just taking.

As Jim has done it, epoxy is the way to go. I wanted to try some RTV, but you need a special kind that's not normally found on the market (but I have at work). Instead, I used high-temp hot-melt glue. The advantage of the epoxy is that, if you get the right kind, it will flow semi-liquid like, and fill in (around, through, and on top of) all the gaps, holes, cracks, etc., very cleanly and nicely, that are leaking. My hot melt glue was very close to the epoxy, but not quite like it.

And, even after that, I still have some vacuum leaks around the vacuum manifold (or "tee" as Jim has refered to it). At least it's enough to allow the ac system to work properly. But, I'm not happy with it.

So......

I went online looking for some "inexpensive" EATCs. Turns out to be one of the original oxymorons. However, I did find a unit from a Ford truck, and, from the pics, looked close enough to maybe play with. Got it for $60 with shipping.

It came in today, and when I took it apart, I was a little disappointed, BUT, I think I can still use the manifold. This unit actually has the solenoids tack-welded to the holding frame. I attached a picture. In addition, the wiring to the solenoids is slightly different. Whereas our version shares a common ground wire, resulting in a 5-wire harness to the PCB connector, this unit has all the wires separated out, resulting in an 8-wire harness.

My main experiment was to see how well the vacuum manifold held vacuum. I tested it, and - it held a full vacuum for at least 20 minutes after shutting off the vacuum pump. My current MM one holds vacuum meaured in milliseconds.

So - the bottom line here is.....besides needing a good set of sealing o-rings, a vacuum-tight solenoid vacuum manifold is also a requirement. From what experiences I've seen here so far, plus my own, as well as Jim's experience, a certain number of us are going to be hit with bad manifolds and/or bad o-rings.

JIM - if you friend does indeed have a bad solenoid, I can probably strip one from the (new) set that I have and send it to you. You would only have to wire it in. Sure beats having to buy a whole EATC!

A member sent me one of those from a PU truck. Came a little mangled...

You can drill out the tack welds and use small nuts & bolts to secure them or I used mechanics wire to secure the solenoids.

I'll take one of the solenoids.

PM sent.

[racorcey]

And futhermore.....

Thinking back in retrospect - my EATC was replaced about 3 years ago under warranty. At the time, it didn't it needed replacing, but they did it anyway.

Here's the interesting part....I noticed soon after the replacement, that, when I shut the engine off, I could hear one of the HVAC doors doing something about 5 seconds later. I mentioned this to the mechanics, but basically got a shrug, and the explanation was that, since the EATC was new, it couldn't be bad, and that's the way it was going to operate. Since the system was otherwise operating ok, I didn't pursue the matter any further. However, I did determine that it was the Outside Air Vacuum Door.

NOW I realize what was happening. The solenoid vacuum manifold was already leaking down vacuum very quickly, even though it was a new part. It was just a matter of time until it started leaking so profoundly as to affect the operation of the system - and that's what happened to me last week.

As noted in an earlier post, I tested all the vacuum operated doors on my system, and they all worked well with no leaks.

Now, the fact that the outside air (vacuum) door releases seconds after engine shut down doesn't really mean much in the scheme of things. After all, as vacuum from the vacuum tank and the EATC depletes itself over the course of several hours or so, the outside air door will eventually release and then open. The point here is that what I heard almost 3 years ago, when the EATC was replaced, was the pre-cursor to a defective part (the solenoid vacuum manifold).

[Chi Stallion]

I replaced my o rings last night with silicone o rings and it's still blowing out the defrost. Looking at this thread I can see why it only happens to a few.

[Zack]

Im guessing you guys have installed the plungers incorrectly.

They look like they would go in either direction, but there is a specific orientation.

[RF Overlord]

I replaced my o rings last night with silicone o rings and it's still blowing out the defrost. Check to be sure you have vacuum getting TO the EATC unit. It's the black line in the rubber connector.

[Vortech347]

I have a unit that works great but whenever I give the car a load going up a hill it will slowly start pushing the AC out of the floor/defrost. Annoying as hell. If I use the bypass hose I made it won't do that. Mine has had the rings changed.

[fastblackmerc]

I have a unit that works great but whenever I give the car a load going up a hill it will slowly start pushing the AC out of the floor/defrost. Annoying as hell. If I use the bypass hose I made it won't do that. Mine has had the rings changed.

That's because you have a vacuum leak in the system. Loss of vacuum during acceleration, will cause the EATC to go into fail-safe mode.... heat and defrost. Check all the vacuum connections, lines and the tank (flat square box under the hood, on the inner fender liner, left side). These cars are getting older and the heat under the hood will cause the vacuum lines to get hard and split.

[Chi Stallion]

Thanks guys for the quick responses. It was blowing out the vents for a few seconds after putting in the new o-rings til it started blowing out the defrost again. When I start the eatc it will blow through the vents then switch back to defrost. Also started noticing when I accelerate, it will switch back to defrost mode. Especially on the highway it will go back to defrost mode all the time. I think I might have a vacuum leak somewhere in there.


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[RF Overlord]

Also started noticing when I accelerate, it will switch back to defrost mode. Especially on the highway it will go back to defrost mode all the time.Classic symptom of a vacuum leak, either in the o-rings, the manifold (inside the EATC), or the supply line.

[Vortech347]

That's because you have a vacuum leak in the system. Loss of vacuum during acceleration, will cause the EATC to go into fail-safe mode.... heat and defrost. Check all the vacuum connections, lines and the tank (flat square box under the hood, on the inner fender liner, left side). These cars are getting older and the heat under the hood will cause the vacuum lines to get hard and split.

Its been like that since the day I bought it 6 years ago.

I'll check what you mentioned. So the tank is on the driver side?

[fastblackmerc]

Its been like that since the day I bought it 6 years ago.

I'll check what you mentioned. So the tank is on the driver side?

Yes, the small square flat box with a vacuum hose going to it.

As Bob mentioned you can also have crack(s) in the manifold inside the EATC.

[Chi Stallion]

Still can't find out were this damn vacuum leak is coming. I bought a newer made eatc module made 03-08-2011 put the new upgraded silicone o rings and still blowing out the defrost when I accelerate. Next thing I guess to look at is the a/c check valve and vacuum lines. Just seems a bit confusing with these damn vacuum lines going everywhere!!


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[fastblackmerc]

Still can't find out were this damn vacuum leak is coming. I bought a newer made eatc module made 03-08-2011 put the new upgraded silicone o rings and still blowing out the defrost when I accelerate. Next thing I guess to look at is the a/c check valve and vacuum lines. Just seems a bit confusing with these damn vacuum lines going everywhere!!


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

You definately have a vacuum leak.