Brake pedal gear Replacement

[Mr. Man]

Well I finally had the time and enthusiasm at the same time to dig into the brake pedal assembly to see what makes the pedals go up and down.

As stated in other threads there is indeed a brass worm gear and a hard plastic gear that is pressed onto a metal large tooth nut that when the brass turns the plastic the plastic in turn screws the nut up or down (or in and out for those of you who spell potato with an E) thus moving the assembly.

Seems pretty basic. So here is where the problem with it arises. The plastic gear cracks at one of the press points(on my gear there are 3 pts) where the gear manufacturer mates the plastic gear to the metal nut.

So I thought I'll just take it apart and see about a new all metal gear from a machine shop.

Looking closely at the assembly it looked pretty easy to disassemble...wrong assumption. It wasn't very hard but I kept having to source farther and farther into my stock of tools to get it finally apart.

First I removed the two torx screws that the hold on the plastic housing. It is also held in place by four plastic clips but with a screwdriver they popped out of their grooves easily. Have paper towels or rags handy as there is a lot of grease. So far pretty easy.

I tried to pull the pin that holds the brake pedal to the adjustment screw because the gear end of the screw is shot peened. I figured the engineers made it so the adjustment screw could slide out from the brake arm end and the plastic gear could slide off that way. Wrong! After destroying the spring clip nut(don't know what the technical term is) buy cutting it off. I slid the pin out only to find out the adjustment screw doesn't unscrew or just pull out. 1/2 hour down the tubes. Do not try this way and you will save yourself a half hour.

So you must attack it from the plastic gear end. Another 1/2 hour looking for my grinder and another 1/2 hour searching for a metal cutting wheel and I was ready to go. Crap where are the safety glasses? Only 15 minutes of searching this time and I found a pair. Grinding is loud so I located my headphones by the lawn mower, they were a snap to find. I ground off the shot peened end trying to be careful not to cut into the screw. Ground it off flush and the washer wouldn't budge, spun in a circle easily but wouldn't come off. So grind some more away at the washer and presto off it comes and then the plastic gear just spins off.

Now if I could source a new metal gear I will need to drill a hole in the adjustment screw and tap it and put it all back together with a new washer and a machine screw with some red Loctite. The hardest part about this would be getting the hole straight, but with time and perhaps a quick wood jig to hold everything steady...no worries.

I'm guessing having a metal gear made will not be cheap and with all the work(though technically not hard) is time consuming it would be easier and most likely cheaper to by and assembly and just replace the pedals as needed.

Here are some pics I took that may help you understand what I did. Pic 1 and 6 show the pin where I tried to take it apart at the brake pedal adjustment point. This turns out to be the wrong approach.

I'd try to label the pics better but my computer skills are limited. I think most of you can figure them out. Sorry some of the pics are blurry. I guess the camara was focusing on something in the backround on some of the pics.

I'll look into a price for a gear but I'm thinking expensive.

[Ms. Denmark]

Thanks for the explanation and pics. It would be great if a crack proof gear were available as a replacement. I'm concerned that this problem will persist and require more than one replacement over the life of my car.

[RoyLPita]

My MM is ready for its 3rd brake pedal assy.

[Bigdogjim]

Not off topic here nor am I trying to "de-rail" the thread but, how often do you people move the pedal's??????????????

I guess even with differant drivers NO ONE has moved mine:)

[Ms. Denmark]

Not off topic here nor am I trying to "de-rail" the thread but, how often do you people move the pedal's??????????????

I guess even with differant drivers NO ONE has moved mine:)
6'3 Mr. Man vs. 5'5 Ms. D. Do the math!:D He does all the car related maintenence/gassing up/washing so his little Princess can just get in and go....after she adjusts the pedals and the seat and the mirrors and the headrest and the radio....:P

[RF Overlord]

He does all the car related maintenence/gassing up/washing so his little Princess can just get in and go....after she adjusts the pedals and the seat and the mirrors and the headrest and the radio....Why does this sound so familiar... :shake:

OOPS....Hi, Bunny!

[Joe Walsh]

Nice write up Eric!
Some bean counter figured out how save 4.2671 cents on every Panther sold by utilizing a plastic gear....:rolleyes:
Let us know how you fare with a metal replacement as my brother's CV pedal adjust just puked its' plastic gear.
(He's 6'-3" and his wife is 5'-2"...)

[RF Overlord]

For what it's worth, tascaparts.com sells the complete adjustable pedal assembly for $133...at least that isn't TOO bad compared to the cost of an EATC or an LCM.

[Ms. Denmark]

Why does this sound so familiar... :shake:

OOPS....Hi, Bunny! LOL! You and Eric are two lucky guys....not everybody has a Princess ....:coolman: :D

[Bigdogjim]

I have my flame suit on so here goes............Just put the pedal in one position and leave it, most cars do not have an option for moving the pedal.IMHO this os the worthless option ever put on a car! Bar none!!

[Ms. Denmark]

I have my flame suit on so here goes............Just put the pedal in one position and leave it, most cars do not have an option for moving the pedal.IMHO this os the worthless option ever put on a car! Bar none!!Debbie prolly does not drive your car so for you, this is an option. It is not an option in my world.:flamer:

[Bigdogjim]

Debbie prolly does not drive your car so for you, this is an option. It is not an option in my world.:flamer:

Nope! Debbie would not driver the marauder if it were the last car on the planet:) HOwever plenty of other people have driven my marauder and no one but no one had ever move the pedal:)

Sorry to be off topic:)

By the way Mr man (Eric) it was indeed a very nice write up :up:

[Ms. Denmark]

Nope! Debbie would not driver the marauder if it were the last car on the planet:) HOwever plenty of other people have driven my marauder and no one but no one had ever move the pedal:)

Sorry to be off topic:)

By the way Mr man (Eric) it was indeed a very nice write up :up:
WRONG!! I moved it when I drove your car at the Brickyard.:P

[MM2004]

WRONG!! I moved it when I drove your car at the Brickyard.:P

Hey Jim...

:neener:

:rofl:

Mike.

[Bluerauder]

Well I finally had the time and enthusiasm at the same time to dig into the brake pedal assembly to see what makes the pedals go up and down.

I tend to side with BDJ on this. You've had this pedal problem for 3 years and have obviously developed a satisfactory work around that suits both the big & tall and the short & powerful.

The solution is to have it replaced and if Eric breaks it again, its his job to make it right. ;) If that is $133 or $533, he broke it. He buys it. He can play with the pedals in HIS car all he likes. Leave yours alone.

We live in a world of plastic gears and it only has to last until it gets out of the door. Would be nice if a more durable steel gear were available. But getting one will likely be very expensive if it has to be a custom made gear.

If this is nothing more than an annoyance for one or both parties, I'd say forget about it. If it really is a problem, pay to replace the part even though you know the replacement will have a limited life if you continue to play with the button. :P

I don't think my pedal button has been used in 8 years except out of idle curiosity on the day I bought the car. Bern never uses the pedal button 'cause I never told her about it .... so she doesn't even know she has that option. If she finds out .... I'll know who told her. :(

BTW -- nice write up. :D

[tbone]

I thought it was silly years ago when the adjustable pedal option became available. People got on for years without it by simply moving the seat. Mine broke shortly after I bought my car and I could not care less. Nor does my wife who simply moves the seat forward. Funny how the power seats work for many years, yet the pedals constantly break. Money making opportunity for Ford? Absolutely!

If the power seats broke as often, Ford would lose many, many sales due to a poor reputation. This, apparently, was acceptable on their part.

[Bigdogjim]

WRONG!! I moved it when I drove your car at the Brickyard.:P

Well you must have put them back cause I never move 'em.

Now my marauder is going into the shop tomorrow the have the switch removed....So there:neener:

[Mr. Man]

I tend to side with BDJ on this. You've had this pedal problem for 3 years and have obviously developed a satisfactory work around that suits both the big & tall and the short & powerful.

The solution is to have it replaced and if Eric breaks it again, its his job to make it right. ;) If that is $133 or $533, he broke it. He buys it. He can play with the pedals in HIS car all he likes. Leave yours alone.

We live in a world of plastic gears and it only has to last until it gets out of the door. Would be nice if a more durable steel gear were available. But getting one will likely be very expensive if it has to be a custom made gear.

If this is nothing more than an annoyance for one or both parties, I'd say forget about it. If it really is a problem, pay to replace the part even though you know the replacement will have a limited life if you continue to play with the button. :P

I don't think my pedal button has been used in 8 years except out of idle curiosity on the day I bought the car. Bern never uses the pedal button 'cause I never told her about it .... so she doesn't even know she has that option. If she finds out .... I'll know who told her. :(

BTW -- nice write up. :D
Actually I had the pedals replaced in the SB a while ago but I am responsible for the maintenance work and need to occasionally drive it. Now that I have my own I don't drive the SB that much.

The brake assembly is the old broken one that I asked the dealer to give me back so I could look into what this dopey gear looked like.

I always thought it odd that someone couldn't get a new gear from Grainger or someplace like that. So I took it apart to see for myself what was happening.

The plastic gear fails at one of the press points when they meld the plastic gear to the steel nut. This is probably due to the use of a plastic that has to little elasticity and over time it blows apart due to something over stressing it. Could be temperature extremes or perhaps even just holding the adjustment button to long and it stresses when it bottoms or tops out. What kills me is the complexity of the whole assembly and all the thought that went into it and then some bean counter said it was 5 cents over budget so instead of a brass gear they went with a plastic one. The whole thing probably wouldn't break if they had used the hard ABS for the whole gear assembly.

I'm thinking that a brass gear needs to be melded to the steel nut because a metal gear will chew away at the brass worm gear and then the pedals will fail again. Might be over thinking it but I have a friend who's brother is a retired machinist and I'll see what he thinks.

[Bluerauder]

Actually.... it was 5 cents over budget so instead of a brass gear they went with a plastic one. The whole thing probably wouldn't break if they had used the hard ABS for the whole gear assembly.

You are probably right about ^^^^^. I grew up in a time that things were built to last. Lots of brass, bronze and stainless steel parts intended to last for the long haul. Plastic is lighter, cheaper but far less durable. It gets brittle over time and does not take stress well ... like in the case that you mention. The overall intent is to just get you through the original 3 year warranty period...... barely. It keeps their costs down and shifts the cost to you at about the 3 year point.

I call this the "Toilet Valve" issue. When I was growing up, I never recall my father ever replacing a flush valve. They seemed to last forever. I think the toilet float corroded long before the valve actually failed. Try to buy one of those now .... can't be done. They are all plastic and have to be replaced every 3 years if not sooner. Business is booming 'cause their aren't any alternatives. You can get Junk A or Junk B. But it is still junk. :rolleyes: Apparently there is no financial reason to make a better valve because they are making money hand over fist producing crap that has to be replaced frequently.

I have 4 bathrooms in this house and I am tired of replacing crappy plastic toilet valves. Same with the pedal gear........ ;)

[Mr. Man]

You are probably right about ^^^^^. I grew up in a time that things were built to last. Lots of brass, bronze and stainless steel parts intended to last for the long haul. Plastic is lighter, cheaper but far less durable. It gets brittle over time and does not take stress well ... like in the case that you mention. The overall intent is to just get you through the original 3 year warranty period...... barely. It keeps their costs down and shifts the cost to you at about the 3 year point.

I call this the "Toilet Valve" issue. When I was growing up, I never recall my father ever replacing a flush valve. They seemed to last forever. I think the toilet float corroded long before the valve actually failed. Try to buy one of those now .... can't be done. They are all plastic and have to be replaced every 3 years if not sooner. Business is booming 'cause their aren't any alternatives. You can get Junk A or Junk B. But it is still junk. :rolleyes: Apparently there is no financial reason to make a better valve because they are making money hand over fist producing crap that has to be replaced frequently.

I have 4 bathrooms in this house and I am tired of replacing crappy plastic toilet valves. Same with the pedal gear........ ;)

This is the same reason there will never be a cure for the common cold. Way to much money to be made. We can allegedly put a man on the moon but we can't cure a cold. Science has broken the genetic code but because there is so much money and fraud in the system we will never see a cure for the common cold, cancer or other diseases that make pharmaceutical companies billions of dollars annually. It's a shame to.
I remember the old toilet valves and floats because we used to remodel old homes and install the new low flo toilets.(don't even get me started on those crap toilets, pun unintentional but poetic just the same:rolleyes:) I used to take the old brass, bronze and copper out and scrap it for spending money. Had a plumber come in once and tell me all the old copper DWV had to come out and be replaced with plastic. I laughed at him 'cause I could see the dollar signs in his eyes for the scrap. There was nothing wrong with the copper it just needed to be spliced into for a new drain. Anyways derailed my own thread and I hired a different plumber.;)

Back to talking about broken brake assemblies......

[RF Overlord]

I actually like the adjustable pedals. People have different body styles...some have longer torsos...some have longer legs. In many cars I find the right position of the seat for my arms is not the right position for my legs, so being able to "custom fit" the driving position is a good thing for me. We drove The Blackbird as our only car for 54,000 miles and have had Phoebe as the DD for over 50,000 miles and have probably moved the pedals in both cars a million times. OK, a thousand times...either way, I like having that option and if (when?) they break, I WILL fix/replace them.

[GetMeMyStogie]

If everyone just set their pedal once and left it alone, then there would be no broken plastic gears in any Marauders. But, there are many Marauders with broken plastic gears. To me, it seems obvious that MM owners/drivers do use it. For whatever reason they want to - who cares.

[GetMeMyStogie]

Hey Mr. Man, could you perhaps measure and post up the specs of the broken plastic gear? Perhaps someone will one day find a suitable metal replacement in a bulk bin somewhere.

[GetMeMyStogie]

The whole thing probably wouldn't break if they had used the hard ABS for the whole gear assembly.

I'm thinking that a brass gear needs to be melded to the steel nut because a metal gear will chew away at the brass worm gear and then the pedals will fail again.

A steel/iron/aluminum gear might fail again, eventually - but it would probably take decades of regular use. Unlike, say, the gear on an old single-cam V8 which turns the gear on a distributor thousands of rotations every minute, this gear might see - what? - a few dozen rotations a week... when used heavily?

Also, there are companies out there these days that can produce plastic samples using 3D printers. These 'samples' are supposedly usable in some cases, maybe even this one.

[LeoVampire]

Knock on wood never had to deal with this but nice of you to do a write up on it!
There must be a tool and die company around willing to make some gears though or a factory that makes machinery.

[Mr. Man]

I asked my retired buddy's retired brother about making the gear and he said he didn't have access to the kind of machinery that would be needed to reproduce it. I will try a regular machine shop to see what they think.

[Joe Walsh]

I asked my retired buddy's retired brother about making the gear and he said he didn't have access to the kind of machinery that would be needed to reproduce it.
I will try a regular machine shop to see what they think.

They will think.....:hmmm:...... $$$$$$$.

[vtwoodsman]

Been There, done That.....bought the entire new pedal assembly from Ford. Don't adjust the foot pedal position with your foot on it.....!!

[FordNut]

For what it's worth, tascaparts.com sells the complete adjustable pedal assembly for $133...at least that isn't TOO bad compared to the cost of an EATC or an LCM.

What's the part number? I need to order one for the wife's car.

[Krytin]

Does anyone have a spare gear - even a broken one that has all or most of the pieces? I might be able to make one up from aluminum or brass.

[Mr. Man]

Does anyone have a spare gear - even a broken one that has all or most of the pieces? I might be able to make one up from aluminum or brass.
If you think you can do something with it. I'll send you the gear I took out. Unfortunately my "guy" couldn't do anything about making a new one.. PM me your address and I'll ship it out.:)

[Krytin]

If you think you can do something with it. I'll send you the gear I took out. Unfortunately my "guy" couldn't do anything about making a new one.. PM me your address and I'll ship it out.:)
Only if you don't need it back for awhile - it will take me some time to hand fabricate one of these!

[Mr. Man]

Only if you don't need it back for awhile - it will take me some time to hand fabricate one of these!
Not much I can do with it, so certainly no rush. If it turns out to be to complex or costly we may just need to buy an assembly from Ford periodically:)

[RF Overlord]

Any chance of finding out who makes the units for Ford? Maybe we can contact them for a little help...or maybe later models have an improved mechanism and don't have this issue?

[RoyLPita]

Any chance of finding out who makes the units for Ford? Maybe we can contact them for a little help...or maybe later models have an improved mechanism and don't have this issue?

As nice as this is, there have been 8 replacements since 2003. All apply to different years of GM and CV.

[Krytin]

Not much I can do with it, so certainly no rush. If it turns out to be to complex or costly we may just need to buy an assembly from Ford periodically:)
PM sent w/address.

[BigCars4Ever]

Could start with one of these and machine the internal threads.
http://www.huco.com/products.asp?p=true&cat=294

[BigCars4Ever]

Or this.....http://gearsmade.com/

[BigCars4Ever]

Or you could modify your pedal assembly to use this...http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Linear-Actuator-225lb-Adjustable-Stroke-12-Volt-DC-/130437730202?pt=LH_DefaultDoma in_0&hash=item1e5eb1cf9a#ht_2853wt_ 1044

[Mr. Man]

Or this.....http://gearsmade.com/
Going to give this guy a call as he is located in NJ. Got some issues to take care first but I'll put it on the to do list. Good find!!:up: