If the 2005 MM...

[Zack]

can be aquired with a factory supercharger, I have some questions.
First off, the price tag will most likely be over 40 large.
Second, performance (330 hp) is not impressive.
If you add anything to the car, you will most likely void the warranty.
With the exception of a leased S/C MM, this is not a good deal.
Anyone who hangs out on this site, registered or not, would be better off buying the base model for what,? say 30 thousand,
Add a trilogy kit with install and have gobs more power and come in at 37,500.
Folks, thats 2,500 over the current sticker.
Aside from having potential value as a true collectors item, y'all do the math.
Any Thoughts?
I personally think the car should die after the 2004 model year.

[Directedby]

It really comes down to

a) How much the SC car is and
b) How much HP will it have

Let's say the car's sticker goes to $40,000 - this means you could buy the car for about $35,000.

And let's say the car has 350HP, and runs a 13.5 or better 1/4 mile.

I personally would buy that car.

[Agent M79]

Wouldn't a factory SC car also be tuned somewhat mild? Would tuners tweak it to provide power on par (or nearly so) with the aftermarket SCs?

[Bigdogjim]

I think $40,000 is low?

Maybe $45.000 is what they would ask???

Good question to think about.:)

[RCSignals]

This is like speculating on where the 2005 Marauder meet will be

[Marauderjack]

Will it be a 5.4 or a 4.6???

The 5.4 S/C makes about 400 HP in Lightning trucks and Cobra Mustangs.....Doesn't it??:confused:

That would be the way to go for a $40K sticker and maybe a $36-$38K selling price!! :)

Why waste time with a 4.6 if the 5.4 will fit??:confused: It's tried and proven already!!:rolleyes:

Marauderjack:cool:

[cbala]

the cobra is a 4.6L not 5.4...

[gilby04]

Sign me up for one in basic RED, please.

[RF Overlord]

I would be willing to bet that the factory will beef up the internals before installing and warranting a blower. This fact alone would make me more comfortable. Even if I were to mod it somewhat, thereby potentially voiding the warranty, I would still feel better about the longevity of the motor as it will have been designed to take the additional stresses right from the start.

Please understand that I am in no way second-guessing Dennis or Trilogy as it is obvious that their kits are well thought out and of high quality, but there's just something unsettling about putting a blower on a stock cast bottom end that worries me. My T-bird SC made over 12 lbs of boost and was still running strong after more than 150,000 miles when it was taken off the road, but there was substantial work done by the factory to the internals of this motor over the N/A 3.8L. I am willing to settle for a little less RWHP from Ford for the peace of mind a forged crank and rods will provide.

[prchrman]

I can wead da footure...and here's my prognostication...will be nearly identical to cobra...IMNSHO...yes iron block and all...warranty issues and such will have to beef up...the only draw back is they might not want the same engine in the MM because the comp with the high dollar Jag you see advertised on TV all the time...willie

[prchrman]

RF...you sure are smart...said nearly same thing at same time...did not see your post...I think my IQ has went up 20 points...

[Racerx88]

Even if it does come out relatively mild..........There'll always be room for improvement.
When the Buick Grand Nationals first came out with intercoolers in 1986, off the showroom floor they would only run in the low 14's. But with VERY minor mods such as cooler thermostats, freer exhausts, a chip, and of course, a little more boost, they'd run low 12's. With even just a few hundred past that level, they'll run low 11's.

So keep in mind, at least they'll be building is a good platform to start from. I just hope it doesn't cost $40k!

[Directedby]

Originally posted by RCSignals
This is like speculating on where the 2005 Marauder meet will be

Los Angeles. No speculation, here.

[Fourth Horseman]

Even if, and I stress if Mercury makes a s/c 2005 model that only put out 330 horses, I'd be interested to see graphs of the torque curve. I'd be happy with 330 horses if the engine made significantly more low RPM torque due to the s/c.

Honestly, I'm not unhappy with the power output of our n/a engines. It'd just be nice to make more of it a bit earlier in the RPM range, is all.

Just my $0.02.

[SergntMac]

Wouldn't it be our luck that you could order a 2005 MM with a N/A 4v DOCH with auto tranny, OR, or the 2V SOHC with a roots @ 6 PSI, and a 6 spd manual.

Yeah, I have this kind of luck, I always get 3/4 of what I want.

[Fourth Horseman]

Good point. Actually, I'd take a 6 speed manual over a s/c package.

[Nathan]

MM + Factory S/C = Gas Guzzler Tax

I don't know about you guys, but I've got better ways to spend $1000 than to give it to Uncle Sam!

[merc406]

Have Mercury drop in Shelby's 390ci--605hp-- V/10, what a fit that would be, and that power is without power adders.
Job done.........

[Donny Carlson]

I think Merc will do what it can to keep the s/c MM under $40K. Think about it -- what was the primary factor in limiting MM sales? An MSRP that was too high. Once these cars were discounted under $30K, they sold. I know I would not have bought my car if I had to pay $35K for it, even though now I know worth $35K simply for fun factor. Okay, so you offer a s/c model, and price it at $40K+. Who is going to buy this car, except people like us who want the performance we crave so much that we are willing to spend thousands of dollars to modify our 2003 and 2004 cars to reach achieve the true potentional of our cars? Merc took a lot of shots from the press -- and lost sales -- because the car was perceived to be underpowered and slow, and the s/c model counters this arguement, AND offers those of us who are willing to shell out more $$$ an incentive to trade up to a new MM. But, as pointed out in another post, if they price this car too high, it would be cheaper to buy the non s/c (especially a left over 2004, or a low mileage used 2003) and modify it.

Mu guess is the sticker will be UNDER $40 K, or there will be a substantial rebate in effect, or both.

[JLHARVEY1]

I don't foresee Ford putting more money into the Marauder. Sales were never what they projected and we're lucky enough that it's still alive for 2004. Also the Panther platform is due for replacement in the very near future (2004-2005?). So my guess is there's a good chance that 2004 will be the last year and I wouldn't hold my breath that they'd make a Marauder for the new platform. I know to us that would be a shame, but unfortuneatly the people who run corporations like Ford look at the $$$. It's just not a very profitable car. The other things they look at is EPA regulations. They don't want to end up in gas guzzler territory. We're probably lucky that the current Marauder was put into production.

I'm not trying to be pessimistic; just trying to be realistic.

But if they did continue to make it (we are dreaming here right), I would ask for Variable Valve timing and a 5 speed auto tranny. I think both of those are realistic additions to the car. VVT and 5 Speed auto's are the norm these days. And Ford already has a 5 speed auto that they use a lot of thier other cars including the Aviator (which also uses a 4.6 DOHC). It's going to need all that if Ford plans to be competitive with the new Chrysler 300C. If I could ask for 3 more changes, I'd want a displacement bump to 5.0 to 5.4, an independent rear suspension, and a nice JBL sound system (I'm not all too crazy about the sound system we have now).

[Fourth Horseman]

Originally posted by JLHARVEY1
But if they did continue to make it (we are dreaming here right), I would ask for Variable Valve timing and a 5 speed auto tranny. I think both of those are realistic additions to the car. VVT and 5 Speed auto's are the norm these days. And Ford already has a 5 speed auto that they use a lot of thier other cars including the Aviator (which also uses a 4.6 DOHC). It's going to need all that if Ford plans to be competitive with the new Chrysler 300C. If I could ask for 3 more changes, I'd want a displacement bump to 5.0 to 5.4, an independent rear suspension, and a nice JBL sound system (I'm not all too crazy about the sound system we have now).

I don't know that they'd bump up engine displacement, but I totally agree with VVT, 5 speed auto and a better sound system. For a car priced in the mid-$30,000 range I think these things should be standard and I bet they would be from a Japanese or European manufacturer.

[swc69]

I hate to sound like a jerk - but you guys are describing the new Chrysler 300C.

RWD
5.7L 340HP V8 (naturally aspirated)
4 Doors
5 speed Auto with autostick

I haven't been able to confirm the torque - I've seen reports of 345 to 395 lb/ft @ 4500rpm.

Base price for the Hemi C version is supposed to be around $32k. Loaded maybe $36k? (what's left? - Moonroof and Nav system? That's probably about it). Plus its a brand new platform so it will probably have better chassis dynamics.

The only question is whether it will be as big as a MM. If its Caddy CTS sized then it wouldn't compare.

Daimler is cranking out a lot of these Hemi's in the 300C, Dodge Magnum and their truck line. Its just a matter of time before an S/C kit is available. THEN - for a total investment of around $40k (car + aftermarket S/C) , you'd get well over 400HP and 400 lb/ft.

Would I pay $40k for an S/C MM with 350hp? No way. $35k? Maybe....... - if they fixed the torque/RPM problem like Fourth Horseman mentioned.

Would I spend $35k on a RWD sedan that STARTED at 340hp without S/C and I could then mod upward from there? ABSOLUTELY!

SWC
2003 300A (with new SCMT!)

[swc69]

http://www.dodgeboy.net/news/300c/

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0306_f_chrysl/

I have no brand loyalty - heck - I bought a Chevy for gosh sake, because the Impala SS was fast. ( I still can't believe I owned a Chevy.)

[JLHARVEY1]

The 300C also the Mercedes E300 Chassis.... That's one of the best and most structuraly solid chassis's ever made. It also uses a Mercedes 5 Speed auto and according to Motor Trend the Hemi Powered 300C is supposed to be about $32,500. This car is a poor man's Mercedes powered by a big 'ol American V-8. What could be better then a German chassis with American styling and an American V-8?

I'm not brand loyal either. Actually I've always been a GM guy but thier junk lately has been leaving me dissappointed. Ford and Chrysler are going through great lengths to advance and GM has been going through great lengths to build the same junk that they've been building. They've also been going through great lengths to make thier cars look bland and lack character.

As of 2005 I don't think there's going to be much of a competition. As much as I love my MM, it can't hold a stick to the 300C.

-I think we got off topic so we probably should start a new subject if we want to continue this converstion of the 300C-

[woaface]

Hey who says we send this to FoMoCo!? They'll sticker a supercharged MM for $40000, but if it doesn't put out more than 340hp only retards will pay that for it. Same guys that pay 40K for it will be the ones with the convertible roofs and chrome around the wheel wells!

I mean, what's the chance that they'll use the same supercharger from the Lightning/Harley/whatever else and the Cobra? Quite a bit eh? They said the MM concept would have 330 horses, I wonder about that. A lot of people liked the concept, Maybe it was a litmus test, for either drop top or supercharger? If they do keep the Marauder, they're pretty much gonna hafta supercharge it, ya know?

How about Marauder sales the last couple of months? I've seen at least 4 in the last two weeks, as man as I've seen before then, in the last year.

[woaface]

:puke:

[MarauderMark]

what is the trilogy kit? is this the kit from reinhart? or something else. can someone tell me where to check this out at? Thanks

[MarauderMark]

why not an 05 mm svt 425hp.maybe ford should wake up and smell the green..

[MM03MOK]

Here's Trilogy's Forum (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=28) and website (http://www.trilogymotorsports.com/). Both Trilogy and Reinhart are vendors on this site.

[MapleLeafMerc]

Originally posted by JLHARVEY1
The other things they look at is EPA regulations. They don't want to end up in gas guzzler territory. We're probably lucky that the current Marauder was put into production.

JLH, I made some rough estimates of how much the Marauder would lower any overall Ford CAFE figure based on simple units sold, and the effect was miniscule. How is CAFE calculated?

As far as paying a gas guzzler tax, I think it's safe to say most here would do it if the horsepower and low-end acceleration was there. I think it comes down to how much we'd pay the factory to provide the 100-150 extra horses many now have (and the rest of us would like ;))

[JLHARVEY1]

Originally posted by MapleLeafMerc
JLH, I made some rough estimates of how much the Marauder would lower any overall Ford CAFE figure based on simple units sold, and the effect was miniscule. How is CAFE calculated?


To be honest, I really don't know how it's calculated. I just remember the engineers claiming that they could've given the current Marauder more power had it not been for the fear of the car going into gas guzzler territory. On top of that, Ford had a goal of increasing it's fuel mileage X percent by year X (I don't remember the specific year or the exact percent, it would take a bit of research; don't remember where I read it), and they didn't make that goal. I'm with you though, I'd rather pay a small tax and get the power that I want. The Execs don't see it that way though. :alone:

If they did supercharge it though, I'd much rather see the Cobra's DOHC engine (390hp) opposed to the original Marauder Prototype's SOHC.;)

[MapleLeafMerc]

Originally posted by JLHARVEY1
To be honest, I really don't know how it's calculated. I just remember the engineers claiming that they could've given the current Marauder more power had it not been for the fear of the car going into gas guzzler territory. On top of that, Ford had a goal of increasing it's fuel mileage X percent by year X (I don't remember the specific year or the exact percent, it would take a bit of research; don't remember where I read it), and they didn't make that goal. I'm with you though, I'd rather pay a small tax and get the power that I want. The Execs don't see it that way though. :alone:

I think you're right. I'd LOVE to know how they decide things.

[JohnE]

I bought my Grand Marquis at the end of 2000 after being disgusted by the overpriced gas-guzzling big SUV's and not having a choice from other vendors.

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Long Version:
I converted from a 92 GMC Jimmy. And at the time thought I wanted the brand new body designed Tahoe. Well the dealers were proud and only willing to come $200 off sticker. Then I eventually looked into the Expeditions. And they are slow, stripped and ugly until several packages are added to them. I came very close to signed a deal, until I test-drove one on the freeway. I want sport!

Looked at the F-Body cars, but they aren't practical for a family and don't have enough of a structure to mount a trailer hitch. I looked into used Impala SS, but everyone was too proud of them for a used vehicle. Basically I wanted a rear wheel drive V-8 car. At the time there was: Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, Town Car, BMW, Mercedes to pick from.
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The Marauder was rumored to be coming when I bought my Marquis. Glad I didn’t wait, because Ford sure took their sweet time. And they were way to greedy with the price tag! Nine months ago I looked into trading up from my Marquis to a Marauder. Would have cost me $20k (good deal on Marauder, sorry deal on a 2.5 year old very similar car). So when I got home I ordered $5k worth of upgrades to my current car.


You people are nuts thinking that Mercury should charge $40k. Start thinking Lincoln badges for that kind of mark-up. What will $10k in upgrades get you after buying a brand new Marquis, which is the same car? A few $ on radio, limited slip and rear ratio change, then rest into engine.


I really like the style of the new Chrysler FULL SIZED rear wheel drive cars coming. Hope Ford attempts to compete. I consider the 500 a mid sized.


I want a Sport Utility Car. Sport meaning sytling, power and handling. Utility meaing hauling capacity for people, luggage & serious trailer towing.


rant over

John

[JLHARVEY1]

I don't think they should charge $40,000 either. If the new 300C is going to be $32,000 then the even the current Marauder is overpriced.

[JohnE]

I looked at the 300 concept pics. The inside is more comparable to my S80T6 than a Marauder.

[SergntMac]

I just hope no newbie puts off buying an '04 waiting for the '05 to roll out. It would be sad to see them miss out.