Engine Options

[MercOut]

Hey MM.net,

I'm trying to reach at least 500rwhp but from discussions with other members, it wouldn't be wise to reach that mark on a stock motor. One member said it could be done with a safe tune.

I bought a ported eaton, so my plan was to do the eaton swap. I was also going to replace the cams with 96-98 Cobra Cams and maybe reach 500rwhp. Maybe a Torque converter if that would help. My other mods are in my signature.

So my question is, can this goal be reached on a stock motor? If not, what are some other motors that can be thrown in the MM without having to do major modifications to make it fit? Or should i just change the internals on the stock motor?

All info is appreciated. Thanks for the input.

[SC Cheesehead]

OEM Cobra short block.

Aluminator

Pistons and rods are the weak link in the stock motor.

[DOOM]

OEM Cobra short block.

Aluminator

Pistons and rods are the weak link in the stock motor.

What he said!!! Plus dont expect to see a big HP gain from changing the cams. Save your money!

[DOOM]

Also youre gonna need more than just that ported eaton to see 500RWHP!!!
Do you have headers or any other mods???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIuo4lrUSxE
PIuo4lrUSxE

[fastblackmerc]

You'll need a forged bottom end.

I'll be doing a cast iron block and forged bottom end. Maybe a stroker kit...

[cpe6]

Stock block is a NO NO!!!!
OEM Cobra Short Block
Aluminator

[MercOut]

4.10 Gears, Dynotech Driveshaft
Art Carr Trans, Kooks Headers w/ 2.5" Stainless Steel Exhaust

[jstevens]

There are lots of guys pushing 500-600 on stock internals. I think there is a thread about who's on stock and who's not.

Either here or over on motorcitymarauders.

[DOOM]

There are lots of guys pushing 500-600 on stock internals. I think there is a thread about who's on stock and who's not.

Either here or over on motorcitymarauders.

600RWHP on a stock block! Puff puff pass! :rasta:

I'll beLIEve it when i see it. :bs:

[SC Cheesehead]

600RWHP on a stock block! Puff puff pass! :rasta:

I'll beLIEve it when i see it. :bs:

Maybe on the block, but not the internals.

[jstevens]

Oh come on. Are you serious. Here is just one:

2003 Mercury Marauder Black 300A.
512 RWHP 496 RW Torque @ 13.5 lbs Boost.
Trilogy Eaton Intercooled
11.844 @ 115.99 MPH

[DOOM]

Maybe on the block, but not the internals.

:agree: :lol:

[DOOM]

Oh come on. Are you serious. Here is just one:

2003 Mercury Marauder Black 300A.
512 RWHP 496 RW Torque @ 13.5 lbs Boost.
Trilogy Eaton Intercooled
11.844 @ 115.99 MPH

Have you taken your car to another dyno shop to back up your numbers?
I damn sure did!
After my car made 500RWHP at my tuners shop I went to another dyno shop to back my numbers up. (and to shut up all the haters) :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4BjIBJY808
P4BjIBJY808

[jstevens]

No, thats not my car. Mines slow at 12.9 at 480 at the crank.

I keep meaning to dyno mine but its fast and thats all that matters.

Have to be careful with these engines.

[MrBluGruv]

Maybe a Torque converter if that would help.

Just wanted to say, since no one else hit on this yet:

A TC will NOT make more horsepower. The only benefit you will see from it is improved launches from a dig. It is most definitely NOT a power MAKER.

[DOOM]

Just wanted to say, since no one else hit on this yet:

A TC will NOT make more horsepower. The only benefit you will see from it is improved launches from a dig. It is most definitely NOT a power MAKER.

Same thing I was saying about the cams! Not worth the money!
Maybe someone else will chime in about this.

[fastblackmerc]

Same thing I was saying about the cams! Not worth the money!
Maybe someone else will chime in about this.

I believe that is true.

If your looking for $$ per HP gained, cams are on the very low side ie. too much expense for the small amount of HP gained.

[MrBluGruv]

I'm not trying to say a TC wouldn't be worth it for going fast, I'm just saying that it's not really a relevant option if what he's looking for is more HP SPECIFICALLY, not necessarily lower E/Ts right now.

OP: T/C will come later. Just leave it at that. :P

[MercOut]

Maybe on the block, but not the internals.


OEM Cobra short block.

Aluminator

Pistons and rods are the weak link in the stock motor.

So i should be fine with the block, so just replace the internals?



You'll need a forged bottom end.

I'll be doing a cast iron block and forged bottom end. Maybe a stroker kit...

I'll need a forged bottom end with a cobra short block/aluminator or with our stock motor?

[MercOut]

I'm not trying to say a TC wouldn't be worth it for going fast, I'm just saying that it's not really a relevant option if what he's looking for is more HP SPECIFICALLY, not necessarily lower E/Ts right now.

OP: T/C will come later. Just leave it at that. :P

Thanks for the TC info, probably won't get it then

[MercOut]

I believe that is true.

If your looking for $$ per HP gained, cams are on the very low side ie. too much expense for the small amount of HP gained.


Same thing I was saying about the cams! Not worth the money!
Maybe someone else will chime in about this.

The cobra cams are ~$175. (From what I've been told) If advanced to 4 degrees, then it'll be worthwhile upgrade.

[DOOM]

Thanks for the TC info, probably won't get it then

You dont really need this with a "ROOTS" blower.

[DOOM]

FYI: I picked up my cobra block for $1,200 bucks!

Some members here have got them even cheaper than that! :eek:

[fastblackmerc]

The cobra cams are ~$175. (From what I've been told) If advanced to 4 degrees, then it'll be worthwhile upgrade.

Plus installation..

[MOTOWN]

Cams are a good option for the guy who is building his engine, installing them himself, and picked them up for a steal!

I wouldnt pay someone to install them in an engine that was already in the car, that would be too pricey as others stated.

[DOOM]

Plus installation..

With a minimal gain.

[RacerX]

What's your budget?

[SC Cheesehead]

The cobra cams are ~$175. (From what I've been told) If advanced to 4 degrees, then it'll be worthwhile upgrade.

If you're going the blower route, why mess with the cams? It's not like you're going to have limited options to generate more HP... ;)

[RacerX]

Those cams WILL add hp with the blower. If installed properly and advanced (add another $100 for the adjustable gears). Money better spent in other areas though for most.

[MOTOWN]

Ill be taking the cam route via crower, or compcams!

[RacerX]

Ill be taking the cam route via crower, or compcams!
I agree. If you have the money, do the entire damn engine top to bottom, trans, rear... Then, there's the po boy engine...

[MOTOWN]

I agree. If you have the money, do the entire damn engine top to bottom, trans, rear... Then, there's the po boy engine...

"po boy engine" Lmao!:lol:

[SC Cheesehead]

Those cams WILL add hp with the blower. If installed properly and advanced (add another $100 for the adjustable gears). Money better spent in other areas though for most.

That's what I was getting at. Lots of tweaking that can be done before going to cams to pull out more HP.

[MOTOWN]

When i build my engine i want every last ounce o horse powa out of it!

[SC Cheesehead]

When i build my engine i want every last ounce o horse powa out of it!


Mo' powa, Mo' betta.... ;)

[LANDY]

It's not hard to make 500rwhp with a blower on the stock engine. How long it will last is another subject.

[MercOut]

What's your budget?

Really don't have a budget, it'll be done over time. I just don't want to spend the money twice....just trying to think ahead


It's not hard to make 500rwhp with a blower on the stock engine. How long it will last is another subject.

Exactly, thats what im trying to avoid

[MOTOWN]

Really don't have a budget, it'll be done over time. I just don't want to spend the money twice....just trying to think ahead



Exactly, thats what im trying to avoid

Sounds like you want a forged shortblock, and leave your worries on the cherry picker!:banana2:

[RacerX]

You're budget, how much you know and can do yourself, how patient you are, what you want out of the engine in the end. You can take a single item, like pistons, flat top, brand, valve recesses, coatings, then you get into rings, ss, plasma moly, rods, H-beam, I-beam, billet, bearings, bi-metal, tri-metal, tri-metal no flash w/H coating, cap bolts, ARP 2000... :D

[DOOM]

Most people here will tell you its not wise to go past 460RWHP on the STOCK BLOCK! You can do it! But i wouldn't recommend it!

Thats when you start rolling the dice!

Why do you want 500RWHP off the break??? Why not start out at around 440RWHP get use to having the blower on the car (and how differently the car drives) :drive: before you jump to 500RWHP!!!

Trust me when I tell you, once you slap that blower on you wont recognize the car. Night and day difference! Other members here will tell you the same thing. :beer:

[MercOut]

You're budget, how much you know and can do yourself, how patient you are, what you want out of the engine in the end. You can take a single item, like pistons, flat top, brand, valve recesses, coatings, then you get into rings, ss, plasma moly, rods, H-beam, I-beam, billet, bearings, bi-metal, tri-metal, tri-metal no flash w/H coating, cap bolts, ARP 2000... :D

Okay, you got me one that:D...I'm not looking to do anything major, probably take it to the track once. Not trying to spend over $4k on an engine. Like i said, just something that will let me get to 500rwhp and not destruct over time.


Sounds like you want a forged shortblock, and leave your worries on the cherry picker!:banana2:

Sounds expensive.


I think i have my answer, either cobra motor or aluminator.

Never received an answer about changing the stock motor internals...is that yay or nay?

[sailsmen]

There are lots of guys pushing 500-600 on stock internals. I think there is a thread about who's on stock and who's not.

Either here or over on motorcitymarauders.

Garage Queens can have all kinds of HP. I go to car shows and see mega HP cars that have never gone WOT and will nev er go down the 1,320'.

~450RWHP on DD that is raced seems to be the reliable limit on a stock block.

[DOOM]

Never received an answer about changing the stock motor internals...is that yay or nay?

You could probably find a cobra block cheaper.

Someone please correct me if im wrong but i think forged rotating assemblies are $2,000

[TFB]

Trust me when I tell you, once you slap that blower on you wont recognize the car. Night and day difference! Other members here will tell you the same thing. :beer:
I would but I've never driven a stock Marauder... :lol:


Well I did move one that was at a friends shop maybe 150ft to get a pict of it and mine together, does that count??? Based on my experience with other vehicles, when you add approx 60% more RwHp the change is more than a little noticeable...

[MercOut]

Most people here will tell you its not wise to go past 460RWHP on the STOCK BLOCK! You can do it! But i wouldn't recommend it!

Thats when you start rolling the dice!

Why do you want 500RWHP off the break??? Why not start out at around 440RWHP get use to having the blower on the car (and how differently the car drives) :drive: before you jump to 500RWHP!!!

Trust me when I tell you, once you slap that blower on you wont recognize the car. Night and day difference! Other members here will tell you the same thing. :beer:

I get what you're saying but I'm the type of person that wants to do things once and not have to touch it again. I don't drive like a maniac so I'm sure i can handle it.

[RacerX]

Not including shipping, yes, @2k. Then you need heads decked, valves cleaned/checked, seats checked, new valve stem seals maybe guides. Deck the block, check cylinders, hopefully get away with just a hone. I wouldn't get an aluminator for the money imho. It's still an assembly line engine. Cobra sb anytime. You can find built blocks with forged internals on pony sites, where people have come into hardships or changed their minds, for a steal.

[DOOM]

You can find built blocks with forged internals on pony sites, where people have come into hardships or changed their minds, for a steal.

Thats what I did! 04 cobra "TERMINATOR" block for $1,200 bucks with only 12k miles on it! :up: :rock:

[MercOut]

Not including shipping, yes, @2k. Then you need heads decked, valves cleaned/checked, seats checked, new valve stem seals maybe guides. Deck the block, check cylinders, hopefully get away with just a hone. I wouldn't get an aluminator for the money imho. It's still an assembly line engine. Cobra sb anytime. You can find built blocks with forged internals on pony sites, where people have come into hardships or changed their minds, for a steal.


Thats what I did! 04 cobra "TERMINATOR" block for $1,200 bucks with only 12k miles on it! :up: :rock:

That's probably what i'll do also. I'm not a motor head so i wouldn't know what to put into a shortblock. Now lets see what i can find.

DOOM and RacerX, by replying to my thread, you've automatically agreed to help me throw engines your way for approval. :D Thanks...JK!

[SC Cheesehead]

Thats what I did! 04 cobra "TERMINATOR" block for $1,200 bucks with only 12k miles on it! :up: :rock:

Hey Doomie, just out of curiousity, what pistons and compression ratio are you running?

[DOOM]

Hey Doomie, just out of curiousity, what pistons and compression ratio are you running?

8.5 to 1 compression.
Stock pistons that are in the cobra block.

[DOOM]

That's probably what i'll do also. I'm not a motor head so i wouldn't know what to put into a shortblock. Now lets see what i can find.

With a cobra short block you really dont need anything else. You can use your stock marauder heads on the cobra short block. :up:

Basically the heads on the marauder are the same as a cobra.

Just find yourself a good cobra short block and you will be good for 500RWHP. :D

[SC Cheesehead]

Okay, you got me one that:D...I'm not looking to do anything major, probably take it to the track once. Not trying to spend over $4k on an engine. Like i said, just something that will let me get to 500rwhp and not destruct over time.



Sounds expensive.


I think i have my answer, either cobra motor or aluminator.

Never received an answer about changing the stock motor internals...is that yay or nay?


Is that your planned total investment, including the blower?

If you go Cobra internals, they're pretty stout.

[BUCKWHEAT]

I blew up one on the road race course. Currently have 55k on a stock block replacement e-bay engine. I have the S/C at 10# boost, kooks, and the usual injector & maf changes. This engine lives since I have shifting limited to 5800 RPM. Dyno is 445.

Now I am having a forged stroker rotating assembly going into a stock aluminum block. Heads are reworked and Crower cams to be added. The goal is to spin the engine at 7200 max, up from 5800. May have to lower the 3.6 pulley but don't know yet. Target is well above 500hp reliably without fuel fall-off.

Sounds like what you were thinking about, but won't be in the low-buck category. Will be fun to see what it Dynos and track times.

[justbob]

Have you given any consideration to a new fuel system, built trans, and other parts that fail you?

Cobra short block FTW or stay under 450.

Sent from my Ally using Tapatalk

[LANDY]

I agree with Bob, specially if this is your first time adding an extra 200hp to a car VIA bolt on.
It gets expenssive as the rest of the drivetrain suffers. Trust me I know.

[Spectragod]

Garage Queens can have all kinds of HP. I go to car shows and see mega HP cars that have never gone WOT and will nev er go down the 1,320'.

~450RWHP on DD that is raced seems to be the reliable limit on a stock block.

472 @ the wheels was where I was at before my last tune, now @ 521 in my garage queen, that goes WOT pretty much every time I have it out..... on the street.

I really don't car so much about the 1320', the car was put together for one reason, to embarrass all the expensive "toys" that think they are fast.:burnout:

But @ 22k miles, mine is a garage queen.

[CWright]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/Dennis_Reinhart_s_Supercharged .jpg

This is mine from 2009 S/C'd stock motor along with Kooks LT Headers @ 9.5 LBS of boost. No changes since.

[DOOM]

I really don't care so much about the 1320', the car was put together for one reason, to embarrass all the expensive "toys" that think they are fast.:burnout:


That right there my friend is quote worthy! :beer:

[sailsmen]

472 @ the wheels was where I was at before my last tune, now @ 521 in my garage queen, that goes WOT pretty much every time I have it out..... on the street.

I really don't car so much about the 1320', the car was put together for one reason, to embarrass all the expensive "toys" that think they are fast.:burnout:

But @ 22k miles, mine is a garage queen.

Race around me or my family on the street and I will do every thing I can to have you arrested and your car confiscated. Yep I have reported a number of people to the State Police.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65199&highlight=marauderboi

[Mr. Man]

One thing I noticed while reading this thread is no one is talking torque. While HP is a good thing you should also be asking yourself what options I can get that will get my 4200lb car + driver moving.

Also keep in mind putting gobs of HP though a stock trans might bring on it's own set of issues. You need to consider the drive line as a whole when you start putting big HP number up. JM2cents:)

[DOOM]

One thing I noticed while reading this thread is no one is talking torque. While HP is a good thing you should also be asking yourself what options I can get that will get my 4200lb car + driver moving.

No problems with torque here! :P

[BODYMAN]

I blew up one on the road race course. Currently have 55k on a stock block replacement e-bay engine. I have the S/C at 10# boost, kooks, and the usual injector & maf changes. This engine lives since I have shifting limited to 5800 RPM. Dyno is 445.

Now I am having a forged stroker rotating assembly going into a stock aluminum block. Heads are reworked and Crower cams to be added. The goal is to spin the engine at 7200 max, up from 5800. May have to lower the 3.6 pulley but don't know yet. Target is well above 500hp reliably without fuel fall-off.

Sounds like what you were thinking about, but won't be in the low-buck category. Will be fun to see what it Dynos and track times.

I have never asked John, what are you doing for fuel upgrade? I.E. Pumps,rails,injectors? Iam gonna be jealous of youre set up

Iam also curious what are you others like Doom,Sailsmen doing? Twin Gt Pumps? Thats what I got on my SB however the FPDM when Very Hot out is getting super hot.

[BODYMAN]

No problems with torque here! :P

Same here Doom no problems in the TQ area Hence part of my point for wanting a roots type

[BODYMAN]

One thing I noticed while reading this thread is no one is talking torque. While HP is a good thing you should also be asking yourself what options I can get that will get my 4200lb car + driver moving.

Also keep in mind putting gobs of HP though a stock trans might bring on it's own set of issues. You need to consider the drive line as a whole when you start putting big HP number up. JM2cents:)

Id say my SB is a testament to that pulled it off the dyno did a WOT oh the feeling of a overpowered trans

[SC Cheesehead]

No problems with torque here! :P


Same here Doom no problems in the TQ area Hence part of my point for wanting a roots type


+2

That was a big part of my decision to go with a roots-type SC, I like the low end response.

[BODYMAN]

+2

That was a big part of my decision to go with a roots-type SC, I like the low end response.

100% mine to Rex. I was tired of having a stall to get her moving.. Besides the point that convertor making my trans hotter.

[LANDY]

:burnout:
I have never asked John, what are you doing for fuel upgrade? I.E. Pumps,rails,injectors? Iam gonna be jealous of youre set up

Iam also curious what are you others like Doom,Sailsmen doing? Twin Gt Pumps? Thats what I got on my SB however the FPDM when Very Hot out is getting super hot. Todd do you have an upgraded fpdm?

[Spectragod]

Race around me or my family on the street and I will do every thing I can to have you arrested and your car confiscated. Yep I have reported a number of people to the State Police.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65199&highlight=marauderboi


I am very aware of that incident. I am also aware that unless you are LEO and make that statement to the locals that it holds -0- weight. Citizen complaints are just that, the LEO has to witness the traffic infraction. If you need the # to my local department and my info, I'll be glad to pass it along to you.

Ask yourself, prior to this incident, were you guilty of any rapid acceleration on the street? If so, you have no dog in that hunt. And we all have done it, so there is not much use in denying it.

I also never said I street raced, I have merely evened the odds so I can merge easier into traffic. No need to get on a high horse, it's the internet.




One thing I noticed while reading this thread is no one is talking torque. While HP is a good thing you should also be asking yourself what options I can get that will get my 4200lb car + driver moving.

Also keep in mind putting gobs of HP though a stock trans might bring on it's own set of issues. You need to consider the drive line as a whole when you start putting big HP number up. JM2cents:)

Ahh, torque, I am at 526, trans is built, Dynotech driveshaft, rear end is built, big brakes, the makings of a perfect street car, you just have to watch getting on it any, everybody seems to be on the "call the police bandwagon".

[FordNut]

There are lots of guys pushing 500-600 on stock internals.

There are a few just over 500. Nowhere near 600. Not on stock internals. There are also lots o windowed blocks which were running in the mid-to-upper 400's.


Oh come on. Are you serious. Here is just one:

2003 Mercury Marauder Black 300A.
512 RWHP 496 RW Torque @ 13.5 lbs Boost.
Trilogy Eaton Intercooled
11.844 @ 115.99 MPH

A few, and most of them are babied.


So i should be fine with the block, so just replace the internals?

I'll need a forged bottom end with a cobra short block/aluminator or with our stock motor?

Either rebuild the stock block with forged pistons and rods, or get a terminator block or aluminator.


It's not hard to make 500rwhp with a blower on the stock engine. How long it will last is another subject.

Absolutely. And the fuel system is commonly overlooked and contributes to the failure.


Garage Queens can have all kinds of HP. I go to car shows and see mega HP cars that have never gone WOT and will nev er go down the 1,320'.

~450RWHP on DD that is raced seems to be the reliable limit on a stock block.

True there, and in a lot of ways they're more fun to drive at that power level.

[DOOM]

Also keep in mind putting gobs of HP though a stock trans might bring on it's own set of issues. You need to consider the drive line as a whole when you start putting big HP number up. JM2cents:)

From what i was told a J-modded trans is good for up to 500RWHP.

If its true or not I dont know. But i had the J-mod done on mine and was running 460RWHP & 460RWTQ with nothing else done to the trans! Thats including quite a few trips to the track and literally hundreds of burnouts! :burn: :burnout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSwIJRl_fgE
fSwIJRl_fgE
Oldie but goodie. :D

Hell I even had my car up to 160mph!!! :eek:

Never had a problem!

Now im running a built race trans! :banana2:

[MercOut]

NOTE: This will be my garage queen, the MM hasn't been a DD for the past couple of months:D

Doom, who installed the Aluminator for you?


Is that your planned total investment, including the blower?

If you go Cobra internals, they're pretty stout.

That was my investment just for the motor. I know how much the swap will cost me, i'm already in the process of gathering parts


Have you given any consideration to a new fuel system, built trans, and other parts that fail you?

Cobra short block FTW or stay under 450.

Sent from my Ally using Tapatalk

I already have an Art Carr transmission but i don't know anything about it. Will that work?

Other than the fuel system, what other parts need to be upgraded?

[SC Cheesehead]

NOTE: This will be my garage queen, the MM hasn't been a DD for the past couple of months:D

Doom, who install the Aluminator for you?



That was my investment just for the motor. I know how much the swap will cost me, i'm already in the process of gathering parts



I already have an Art Carr transmission, so will that work?

Other than the fuel system, what other parts need to be upgraded?

Gotcha. That makes sense; would be a little tight if that was your budget for the whole works. ;)

[BODYMAN]

:burnout: Todd do you have an upgraded fpdm?

Landy I dont I have a oe FPDM. Zack has been on me to actually go full return style. Had a problem the other day the FPDM got so hot it quit running let it sit for a little while and OK. I need to do something pretty quick with this heat. Especially if Iam making plans to move even further south in youre neck of the woods:D

[Blackened300a]

From what i was told a J-modded trans is good for up to 500RWHP.

If its true or not I dont know. But i had the J-mod done on mine and was running 460RWHP & 460RWTQ with nothing else done to the trans!

I was wondering what trans work you had done. I have a J-modded trans and I didn't want to worry about blowing it up one day. I seriously don't think I can hurt anything being NA.

[Spectragod]

I was wondering what trans work you had done. I have a J-modded trans and I didn't want to worry about blowing it up one day. I seriously don't think I can hurt anything being NA.

Going WOT in OD seems to cut the life expectancy down, even NA.

[DOOM]

I was wondering what trans work you had done. I have a J-modded trans and I didn't want to worry about blowing it up one day. I seriously don't think I can hurt anything being NA.

I wouldn't worry about a thing bro. :beer:

It was in a older thread about j - mods and Zack was saying they're good for up to 500RWHP.

[DOOM]

Doom, who installed the Aluminator for you?

Not aluminator but TERMINATOR a.k.a cobra block.

Chris (blown 3.8) a member here did the work. And an excellent job too! :2thumbs:

He's local to us here in Va.

[BODYMAN]

Going WOT in OD seems to cut the life expectancy down, even NA.

Agreed that my friend is a big :shake:

[DOOM]

Going WOT in OD seems to cut the life expectancy down, even NA.


Agreed that my friend is a big :shake:

:agree:

My O/D stays off until im on the highway.

The first 2 things I do as soon as I start the car is hit the T/C & O/D buttons! :D

[RacerX]

:agree:

My O/D stays off until im on the highway.

The first 2 things I do as soon as I start the car is hit the T/C & O/D buttons! :D
+65,000 Do NOT turn it on coming out of high speed/rpm runs from 3rd either! Be gentle with the OD band! :beer:

[BODYMAN]

Yep same as you guys it is strictly for hiway cruising. I do just like you said Doom car starts and before belt goes on its 2 buttons

[RacerX]

Yep same as you guys it is strictly for hiway cruising. I do just like you said Doom car starts and before belt goes on its 2 buttons
TC is for girls! :D

[BODYMAN]

TC is for girls! :D

LOL I just wish my 04 wasnt even equipped with it.

[na svt]

The last thing you should do is go with a low compression (8.5:1) cobra or aluminator shortblock. By doing so you reduce the hp and tq both by a minimum of 50 when compared to the stock CR. The stock CR provides much better off-boost power/driveability also. It's especially beneficial when runnin a centri type blower. Also, adding 80lbs to the fron of an already heavy *** car wouldn't be an option for me, these cars are heavy enough, no need to add to its mass.

96-98 cobra cams will increase both tq and hp without having to increase boost and at $150 they are a no brainer.

[BODYMAN]

The last thing you should do is go with a low compression (8.5:1) cobra or aluminator shortblock. By doing so you reduce the hp and tq both by a minimum of 50 when compared to the stock CR. The stock CR provides much better off-boost power/driveability also. It's especially beneficial when runnin a centri type blower. Also, adding 80lbs to the fron of an already heavy *** car wouldn't be an option for me, these cars are heavy enough, no need to add to its mass.

96-98 cobra cams will increase both tq and hp without having to increase boost and at $150 t boost hey are a no brainer.


Id personally have the lower comp motor running 20psi. A 10.1 is a less forgiving motor with that much boost in my opinion. If I did not plan to run high boost yes I would want the 10.1. To me I think a perfect comp ratio would be in the middle say like 9:25.1.

[MOTOWN]

The last thing you should do is go with a low compression (8.5:1) cobra or aluminator shortblock. By doing so you reduce the hp and tq both by a minimum of 50 when compared to the stock CR. The stock CR provides much better off-boost power/driveability also. It's especially beneficial when runnin a centri type blower. Also, adding 80lbs to the fron of an already heavy *** car wouldn't be an option for me, these cars are heavy enough, no need to add to its mass.

96-98 cobra cams will increase both tq and hp without having to increase boost and at $150 they are a no brainer.

This is an interesting post, i partly agree with the weight factor of a cobra shortblock(too heavy for me), but 10.1 motors are not a good option for a guy pushing 20+ psi, the stock comp motor is great for mild boost situations (9.5psi)

the mm is pleanty heavy as it is!

[RacerX]

Todd Warren knows his chit. You can find him on every 4.6 site...

[jstevens]

+65,000 Do NOT turn it on coming out of high speed/rpm runs from 3rd either! Be gentle with the OD band! :beer:

coming out of high, when do you turn it back on? When you come down to cruising speed?

[na svt]

This is an interesting post, i partly agree with the weight factor of a cobra shortblock(too heavy for me), but 10.1 motors are not a good option for a guy pushing 20+ psi, the stock comp motor is great for mild boost situations (9.5psi)
the mm is pleanty heavy as it is!

I know people pushing 20psi into a stock CR engine and they aren't having any problems. However, I would go out on a limb and say that 99% of the forced induction marauders aren't anywhere close to that level nor are they strip only combos. So, since most are boosted with 15psi or less and driven daily the higer compression is a huge benefit.

I defintely would not run 8.5:1 with a centri, with a PD blower it's somewhat tolerable but nowhere near perfect. If I was forced to go with 8.5 the first thing I would do is advance the intake cams to increase the dynamic compression ratio to increase the tq and driveability. By doing this I've seen a 30ft lb increase in tq without any other changes.

I do know of two DD 10:1 combos that are boosted with 20psi. One runs low 10s thru a 4r70w and drives like a stocker, not marauders but the engines are the same.

The beauty of a mod motor is that is has a very well designed combustion chamber which allows higher compression when boosted. These aren't the engines of old with terrible flame travel and combustion dynamics. You've heard the term "don't fear the gear"? Well in this case "don't fear compression," it's your friend and can make or break the driveability of a forced induction DD.

[DOOM]

This is an interesting post, i partly agree with the weight factor of a cobra shortblock(too heavy for me), but 10.1 motors are not a good option for a guy pushing 20+ psi, the stock comp motor is great for mild boost situations (9.5psi)

the mm is pleanty heavy as it is!

Exactly!!! Which is why I went with 8.5 comp. I run high boost! 16psi now!

But will soon be seeing +20psi! :D

Terminators were made to run high boost!

[MOTOWN]

I would love to run a 10.1 comp 20psi combo on a centri, which ive considered, but my concern would be longevity on 93 octane

[SC Cheesehead]

This is an interesting post, i partly agree with the weight factor of a cobra shortblock(too heavy for me), but 10.1 motors are not a good option for a guy pushing 20+ psi, the stock comp motor is great for mild boost situations (9.5psi)

the mm is pleanty heavy as it is!

Agreed. I'm at 10.7 lbs boost and it works well with the 10.1 compression ratio. Swordfish was running around 17 lbs at the KY meet last year and was having issues, he was going to change pulleys to get that down some.

[na svt]

Terminators were made to run high boost!
If only that were true. The stock terminator pistons give up quite easily.

[MOTOWN]

Agreed. I'm at 10.7 lbs boost and it works well with the 10.1 compression ratio. Swordfish was running around 17 lbs at the KY meet last year and was having issues, he was going to change pulleys to get that down some.

Now that brings up another interesting point, i always thought the eaton wasnt efficient after 12-14 psi, and just became heatsoaked:confused:

[na svt]

Now that brings up another interesting point, i always thought the eaton wasnt efficient after 12-14 psi, and just became heatsoaked:confused:
It does so can't be talking about Eaton combos.

[DOOM]

If only that were true. The stock terminator pistons give up quite easily.

I was told differently. Oh well no problems here!

Thinking of upgrading pistons when I go whipple anyways. :D

[na svt]

I was told differently. Oh well no problems here!

Thinking of upgrading pistons when I go whipple anyways. :D
That's a good idea.

[SC Cheesehead]

Now that brings up another interesting point, i always thought the eaton wasnt efficient after 12-14 psi, and just became heatsoaked:confused:


IIRC, ImpalaSlayer was running around 14 lbs., and I think Zack was close to that as well.

Blown 3.8 had posted something up a while back, it think it related to Eaton efficiencies.

[MercOut]

So from this 6 page discussion,

A stock block can't handle 500rwhp unless the internals are changed

An 03-04 Cobra block /Aluminator is too heavy and only good for for guys pushing 20+psi

Correct?

I just want a garage queen with 500rwhp (max), thats still reliable and will only go WOT a few times a month(if that).

[na svt]

I was told differently. Oh well no problems here!

Thinking of upgrading pistons when I go whipple anyways. :D
If you keep the rwhp to around 600 it'll last for a long time. I've had pullied, 2.3H whipples on totally stock 03/04 cobra engines (no headers) make 625 and have no issues. Get much above that and the life expectancy of the pistons goes down quickly. Thru an auto I would keep it at 600rwhp, any higher and the pistons would be changed.

[MOTOWN]

Im looking forward to see how that v7 ysi build DR is building turns out

[MOTOWN]

If you keep the rwhp to around 600 it'll last for a long time. I've had pullied, 2.3H whipples on totally stock engines (no headers) make 625 and have no issues. Get much above that and the life expectancy of the pistons goes down quickly. Thru an auto I would keep it at 600rwhp, any higher and the pistons would be changed.

I would be concerned with ventilating a stock motor at that h.p. level:eek:

[na svt]

So from this 6 page discussion,

A stock block can't handle 500rwhp unless the internals are changed

An 03-04 Cobra block /Aluminator is too heavy and only good for for guys pushing 20+psi

Correct?
Almost correct. The aluminator isn't too heavy because it's...aluminum. The 03/04 block is cast iron and therefore much heavier. I recommend the 10:1 aluminator for a 500rwhp FI engine.

Your stock engine will make 500 with boost, but it won't live long. Keeping the power to 425 will help a lot with longevity.

[na svt]

I would be concerned with ventilating a stock motor at that h.p. level:eek:
We've had stock termi engines at 750rwhp with twin turbos, but after numerous, extended full throttle blasts the pistons burnt up. The owner wanted to see what he could make on the stock engine befoer he went with the built engine.


My personal choice for a marauder would be a centri charged, stroker with 10:1 and keep the boost around 15psi. There's no substitue for cubic inches.

[MOTOWN]

We've had stock termi engines at 750rwhp with twin turbos.


Ohhh due tell! details bud?? me likey turbos:banana2:oh never mind i calmed down and read the rest of the post!

[BODYMAN]

If you keep the rwhp to around 600 it'll last for a long time. I've had pullied, 2.3H whipples on totally stock 03/04 cobra engines (no headers) make 625 and have no issues. Get much above that and the life expectancy of the pistons goes down quickly. Thru an auto I would keep it at 600rwhp, any higher and the pistons would be changed.

Agree however there are alot of guys out there on stk Termi shortblocks doing alot more then 600, Just not sure how they are holding up from a longevity point

[na svt]

Ohhh due tell! details bud?? me likey turbos:banana2:
Turbos are the way to go especially with an automatic trans. A simple setup with a good T76 can make mid 700s at the wheels and provide stock driveability/mileage and cost no more than a trilogy setup.


Agree however there are alot of guys out there on stk Termi shortblocks doing alot more then 600, Just not sure how they are holding up from a longevity point
Like I stated earlier, mid 700s is possible but that much power for an extended period will eat up the pistons; the higher the power the earlier they will give out.

[BODYMAN]

Now that brings up another interesting point, i always thought the eaton wasnt efficient after 12-14 psi, and just became heatsoaked:confused:

Exactly overspun Eatons can cost someone alot of $$ in long run. Dont really know about a ported though maybe efficiency is a little higher then stk Eaton

[MOTOWN]

Turbos are the way to go especially with an automatic trans. A simple setup with a good T76 can make mid 700s at the wheels and provide stock driveability/mileage and cost no more than a trilogy.

Yeah dont i know it! my buick V6 stageII made 1072 hp on a single turbonetics turbo, i agree a turbo is the king of power adders, but the mm engine bay is just to tight, and i think the heat from a twin on mm would be an issue

[na svt]

Yeah dont i know it! my buick V6 stageII made 1072 hp on a single turbonetics turbo, i agree a turbo is the king of power adders, but the mm engine bay is just to tight, and i think the heat from a twin on mm would be an issue
It's quite amazing how a car that large can have such a tight engine bay.

[MOTOWN]

I would love to see someone shoehorn a turbo into one, that would be wicked

[RacerX]

coming out of high, when do you turn it back on? When you come down to cruising speed?
Missed this! Yes, Using engine braking/brakes to bring your rpms down in 3rd then hit the OD button back on if you wish.

[Seneca]

This has been a very good post with alot of info! Keep it up!

[LANDY]

NA SVT, my setup will consist on a t-trim at 14psi and 10.2 CR. on a built Bottom end.
there is no way i can run 20psi on 93 octane with that CR.
by experience on dynos since our cars are whey heavier than muskrats they cant run the amout of timing your able to run in a stang.
Example s-trim at 12psi, on stock CR wont ping on the dyno at 15* of timing but it did on the street. we ended up running 13* without detonation that was 468rwhp.
now on race gas we squeezed 20* of timing with no problems at well over 500rhwp, yes it was on a stock motor.

[MOTOWN]

NA SVT, my setup will consist on a t-trim at 14psi and 10.2 CR. on a built Bottom end.
there is no way i can run 20psi on 93 octane with that CR.
by experience on dynos since our cars are whey heavier than muskrats they cant run the amout of timing your able to run in a stang.
Example s-trim at 12psi, on stock CR wont ping on the dyno at 15* of timing but it did on the street. we ended up running 13* without detonation that was 468rwhp.
now on race gas we squeezed 20* of timing with no problems at well over 500rhwp, yes it was on a stock motor.

Excellent point Landy! i would luv 20psi on 93octane, but i dont think the motor would:depress:

[TooManyFords]

You dont really need this with a "ROOTS" blower.

Unless he want's to cut a half second off his 1320...

[BODYMAN]

NA SVT, my setup will consist on a t-trim at 14psi and 10.2 CR. on a built Bottom end.
there is no way i can run 20psi on 93 octane with that CR.
by experience on dynos since our cars are whey heavier than muskrats they cant run the amout of timing your able to run in a stang.
Example s-trim at 12psi, on stock CR wont ping on the dyno at 15* of timing but it did on the street. we ended up running 13* without detonation that was 468rwhp.
now on race gas we squeezed 20* of timing with no problems at well over 500rhwp, yes it was on a stock motor.

100% with you on that Landy you cant compare these monsters to a stang and how it reacts in terms of boost and CR, verse what a dyno says/does compared to actuall driving.

[DOOM]

An 03-04 Cobra block /Aluminator is too heavy and only good for for guys pushing 20+psi

Correct?

Wrong!!! There is about an 80# difference between your stock block and a cobra block.

Thats like riding around with a child in your car or two 40# dumbells.

80#'s aint S#!T! There were marauders running LOW 10's with that 80# heavier cobra block. As well as others running 11's!

Cmon guys its 80#'s NOT 800#'s!!!

If youre boosted no big deal!

[LJ on 24's]

:agree::burn:

[na svt]

Wrong!!! There is about an 80# difference between your stock block and a cobra block.

Thats like riding around with a child in your car or two 40# dumbells.

80#'s aint S#!T! There were marauders running LOW 10's with that 80# heavier cobra block. As well as others running 11's!

Cmon guys its 80#'s NOT 800#'s!!!

If youre boosted no big deal!

The Aluminator block will hold up to the same amount of hp as any iron block. The Marauder WAP block can't, but it can be used in 650rwhp combos without any issues.

[BUCKWHEAT]

Me too. Have been running 445 on stock internals with ported Trilogy and with 2 1/2" all the way from kooks to tips. Currently changing to stroked & forged internals, Crower cams & retune. Looking for 500 streetable.


Hey MM.net,

I'm trying to reach at least 500rwhp but from discussions with other members, it wouldn't be wise to reach that mark on a stock motor. One member said it could be done with a safe tune.

I bought a ported eaton, so my plan was to do the eaton swap. I was also going to replace the cams with 96-98 Cobra Cams and maybe reach 500rwhp. Maybe a Torque converter if that would help. My other mods are in my signature.

So my question is, can this goal be reached on a stock motor? If not, what are some other motors that can be thrown in the MM without having to do major modifications to make it fit? Or should i just change the internals on the stock motor?

All info is appreciated. Thanks for the input.

[dohc324ci]

We've had stock termi engines at 750rwhp with twin turbos, but after numerous, extended full throttle blasts the pistons burnt up. The owner wanted to see what he could make on the stock engine befoer he went with the built engine.


My personal choice for a marauder would be a centri charged, stroker with 10:1 and keep the boost around 15psi. There's no substitue for cubic inches.

This is the route I eventually took with that logic in mind for the short block. Not to mention i have to deal with CARB in Cali so Vortech Centri is the only choice.