Blew up my engine

[Taemian]

Engine blew up on the highway today.

Can I have some links to good options? Aluminators are dropping like flies here, and on SVTPerformance as well, so I'm not interested in them.

Just a Termi-like set up for my daily driver with a Trilogy.

Still not sure why it blew. 94 octane, 30k miles with stock Trilogy tune, figured the trans would go first.:bigcry:

[MMarauder03]

Who's aluminators have been breaking?

[slickster]

30k on the motor and it blew?

[dohc324ci]

Terminator Long-block and call it a day. I wouldn't hesitate to buy an Aluminator high compression Long-Block though? What are the details of the said Aluminators?

[mcgyver59]

There was a few aluminators in 07 that were bad. Any reports of failure you hear nowadays is.due to idiot owners or bad tuners.
Buy an aluminator with.confidence.

[Bradley G]

I speculate that the Intake & exhaust being modified without retuning gave you a lean burn.

[SC Cheesehead]

I speculate that the Intake & exhaust being modified without retuning gave you a lean burn.

That's what I'm thinking, but need additional details. If the car's running lean, won't make any difference what gets installed as a replacement block.

[RacerX]

Aluminmators are still assembly line product!!! Have a professional engine builder that works on Ford mod motors build you something BETTER for the same or less!!!


I speculate that the Intake & exhaust being modified without retuning gave you a lean burn.
Unless your MAF pegs, the computer knows exactly how much air is coming in and sends the appropriate ammount of fuel.

[SC Cheesehead]

Unless your MAF pegs, the computer knows exactly how much air is coming in and sends the appropriate ammount of fuel.[/QUOTE]




Agreed that a built termi block is about bulletproof, but still wondering what caused the current motor to go boom.

Your point about the MAF is a good one, Bill. Would be interesting to get post mortem details on exactly what happened to cause engine to blow.

Was it a fuel-related issue, timing issue, lower end component failure, did the engine overheat due to problems with the cooling system? Was he cruising at steady speed or under acceleration?

[Chevyguy]

If you build an engine go with the Boss 5.0 block!!

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6010BOSS50/

[sailsmen]

Aluminmators are still assembly line product!!! Have a professional engine builder that works on Ford mod motors build you something BETTER for the same or less!!!


Unless your MAF pegs, the computer knows exactly how much air is coming in and sends the appropriate ammount of fuel.

There are far more cases of so called professional builders engines blowing than Ford assembled engines. There are thousands of Ford built MM engines and only a few have had defects compared to reprot after report of professional engine builders with story after story of failure.

I do not know of any professional engine builders that have the R&D, process or facilities to match Ford.

For professional engine builders you are the R&D, i.e. the guiena pig.

If you can get Ford to accept your MM engine as a core the Ford Reman Cobra Long Block is the best buy and the only one that comes with a fully backed 75,000 mile warranty. No professional engine builder can come close to the cost.

I have 45,000 miles and 50 1/4 mile passes at over 540RWHP on a Ford Cobra Reman Long Block. The oil samples show the engine holding up with normal wear.

[sailsmen]

Check your intercooler pump. This is the most likely cause particularly if you don't have the relocated IAT.
Also check your Boost-a-Pump.

[bugsyc]

There are far more cases of so called professional builders engines blowing than Ford assembled engines. There are thousands of Ford built MM engines and only a few have had defects compared to reprot after report of professional engine builders with story after story of failure.

I do not know of any professional engine builders that have the R&D, process or facilities to match Ford.

For professional engine builders you are the R&D, i.e. the guiena pig.

If you can get Ford to accept your MM engine as a core the Ford Reman Cobra Long Block is the best buy and the only one that comes with a fully backed 75,000 mile warranty. No professional engine builder can come close to the cost.

I have 45,000 miles and 50 1/4 mile passes at over 540RWHP on a Ford Cobra Reman Long Block. The oil samples show the engine holding up with normal wear.
Inquiring minds want to know,how much said engine costs???

[SC Cheesehead]

Check your intercooler pump. This is the most likely cause particularly if you don't have the relocated IAT.
Also check your Boost-a-Pump.

Excellent points! If he was running real high IAT and the PCM didn't sense it, it wouldn't pull timing.

Relative to the BAP, yup; my first one was defective, wouldn't pull more than 13 amps, that's gonna create issues with fuel supply.

[sailsmen]

Inquiring minds want to know,how much said engine costs???

Shipping costs and amount of discounts vary widley based on location and dealer.

Do a search for delivery to your location.

Check the Mustang sites for dealers that offer a discount.

[dohc324ci]

Boss is nice but what's the budget and intended usage of the car? Costs start to add up "project creep" comes to mind if your not careful.

[RacerX]

There are far more cases of so called professional builders engines blowing than Ford assembled engines. There are thousands of Ford built MM engines and only a few have had defects compared to reprot after report of professional engine builders with story after story of failure.

I do not know of any professional engine builders that have the R&D, process or facilities to match Ford.

For professional engine builders you are the R&D, i.e. the guiena pig.

If you can get Ford to accept your MM engine as a core the Ford Reman Cobra Long Block is the best buy and the only one that comes with a fully backed 75,000 mile warranty. No professional engine builder can come close to the cost.

I have 45,000 miles and 50 1/4 mile passes at over 540RWHP on a Ford Cobra Reman Long Block. The oil samples show the engine holding up with normal wear.
Yeah, I want a union guy high as a kite working on my engine or someone that regularly does 300 to 2,000+hp engines all day long by hand. You telling me those aluminators come blueprinted and professionally balanced too. :bs: You keep believing what you want, it's STILL an assembly line to make $$$.

[sailsmen]

"Yeah, I want a union guy high as a kite working on my engine or someone that regularly does 300 to 2,000+hp engines all day long by hand. You telling me those aluminators come blueprinted and professionally balanced too. You keep believing what you want, it's STILL an assembly line to make $$$.
You bought an assemly line Marauder didn't you or was it Professional built?"

Disparging Ford workers and implying professional builders don't make "$$$"? What does "by hand" mean? They don't have any tools or equipment? Take a tour of their facility and see exactly what they do have.

Those engines you refer to are built in most cases to last seconds.

Ford has built millions of engines with satistically nominal failures. Why, if their engines were not reliable they would be out of business.

Tell us about the warranty these so called professional builders offer. One builder recently offered one. They are the only ones I know of and it does not match Ford's 75,000 miles / 3 year warranty.


Higher Build Level




When you purchase a Ford Remanufactured Gas Engine Assembly, you're getting a product that's built to the exacting specifications of Ford Motor Company – not just a quality build, but one that's built for your vehicle.



Each engine is built using parts that keep it specific to make, model, year and emissions calibration, which means each assembly is engineered to perform like the one it's replacing. Plus, Ford remanufactured engines use new Ford engineered service parts in the remanufacturing process and most include intake manifold gaskets, thermostat, exhaust studs, oil filter adaptors and oil coolers (as required).



Features
•Long block – Each is thoroughly inspected to meet Ford Motor Company's stringent OE engineering specifications
•Cylinder bores – All are oversized in every block, and multipass-honed to meet or exceed OE specifications for fuel economy, oil consumption, performance and durability
•Stepped cylinder bore honed – We use a special process to optimize oil consumption and minimize break-in time
•New hypereutectic or forged-aluminum pistons – Manufactured to meet OE engine performance criteria
•Computer-controlled testing – Tested before assemblies leave the factory for oil flow, sealing integrity, oil pressure, component quality and compression
•New parts are installed – We include piston rings, valves, springs, keepers, tappets, valve adjusters, gaskets and seals



3-Year/Unlimited-Mile Warranty – No Commercial Exceptions

Ford remanufactured gasoline engines and transmissions are covered by a 3-year/unlimited-mile warranty.* Remanufactured diesel engines are covered by a 2-year/unlimited-mile warranty.*





All warranties are backed by Ford Motor Company and supported by more than 3,000 Ford and Lincoln Dealerships nationwide, or by originating place of service.



Plus, unlike those of some competitors, the warranty is good for fleet vehicles. That means you get the same advantages and coverage for commercial use, with no exceptions.



See complete limited-warranty statement



*See dealer for limited-warranty details.





No-Risk Core Return Credit

With the no-risk core return credit, you never have to worry about extra charges if your engine core is damaged.**




**100% core credit is always provided – never prorated. Returned core must be the same part as assembly purchased. Core must be 100% complete, with all parts attached, all fluids drained, and returned in the original package

[slickster]

Inquiring minds want to know,how much said engine costs???

For a built or better motor and power adder you can buy another mm for that price

[RacerX]

Try and return an Aluminator some time. I found out more than I'd ever care to know about the Aluminators and am educated now. Hell, I used to think Aluminators were the Bees knees and wanted one! I love Ford, but, just like ANY assembly line product... Why do you think the elite car companies still build everything by hand. Hey, you have your OPINION and I have mine. Good luck!


For a built or better motor and power adder you can buy another mm for that price
Yup! Around 7K! Trilogy, another 7K.

[sailsmen]

Please tell us who these Professional Builder are.

My opinion was formed from owning a number of Ford products, apparently these so called "high as a kite" union workers can assemble a reliable car.

[RacerX]

Paul Krauss. I'm lucky to have a lot of guys near me. Knowing what I do now, I would have had Paul do mine instead of getting an MMR engine.
http://www.pkmachinehp.com/
http://nashuaenginerebuilders.com/
Both great shops.

[rayjay]

Contact fastmerc for info on what he did when his NA blew up last year. Its bullet proof now.

[Marauderjack]

Nothing......I repeat......NOTHING is Bullet Proof!!!:shake:

[mcgyver59]

You will have better luck with.an.aluminator.than anything else.
Machine shops make mistakes more so.than robots.

[Bradley G]

Aluminmators are still assembly line product!!! Have a professional engine builder that works on Ford mod motors build you something BETTER for the same or less!!!


Unless your MAF pegs, the computer knows exactly how much air is coming in and sends the appropriate ammount of fuel.
Exactly why I said a retune is necessary if you pully down past 3.2" & or want to run CAI & exhaust along with the Trilogy.
I upgraded my maf to a Lightning 90 MM when I went to
2.8" pulley , it pegged at 5K on the dyno along with some belt slippage.
Lonnie said the belt giving up at 5000 RPM keeps the motor from doing the same.

[Mercguy04]

Both UAW engine builders signature appear on the Valve cover of the engine.
If there is a problem, there is accountable for work done.
It seems as though the Union worker is to blame for all that the manufactures
problems. I wounder if the big wigs who make 300 to 400 times the Union worker
wages could have been keeping an eye on the store. After all what are they getting
paid for? Most union worker are good honest hard working people, that want the
american dream. They don't live in Muiltmillion eastates, with bonuses for cutting
corners, lowering labor costs. Always demanding give backs.
One guy told me the other day, if you were to stop the checks of all the Senators
Congressman and white house staff including the President, you would see how fast
this debacial would end. I think it's a good idea.

[justbob]

Most union worker are good honest hard working people, that want the
american dream. They don't live in Muiltmillion eastates, with bonuses for cutting
corners.

THANK YOU SIR. Some people will never get it. They hear union and all the BS comes rollin out. I invite anyone to try it, let's see how ya do... Remember, if you make more, you NEED to prove why your worth more. If you "think" otherwise, the invites still open.



Sent from my Ally using Tapatalk

[Spectragod]

Please tell us who these Professional Builder are.

My opinion was formed from owning a number of Ford products, apparently these so called "high as a kite" union workers can assemble a reliable car.

Lidio did mine, I considered an aluminator too, but made what I feel was the wiser of 2 choices.

[Taemian]

Who's aluminators have been breaking?

We have two lately here in local Mustang clubs, and there's quite the thread over at SVTP about some very unhappy people. Also, the warranty stated there was 1 year/12,000 miles. Maybe those were shortblocks?

[Taemian]

30k on the motor and it blew?

Car was bought at 9156 miles, went to 19k and then installed Trilogy, now at 47K...so about 30k on the Trilogy.

[Taemian]

Terminator Long-block and call it a day. I wouldn't hesitate to buy an Aluminator high compression Long-Block though? What are the details of the said Aluminators?


http://www.vancouvermustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79898&highlight=aluminator+****ed&page=24

Post #586 and 587.

So much for no bs warranty. This thread is long and vulgar, but Ford is basically blowing them off on both engines. Also, what is excessive pressures? Ford refuses to give a number.

There is another AluminHater thread at SVTP, but I just want to get through THIS thread.

[Taemian]

Unless your MAF pegs, the computer knows exactly how much air is coming in and sends the appropriate ammount of fuel.




Agreed that a built termi block is about bulletproof, but still wondering what caused the current motor to go boom.

Your point about the MAF is a good one, Bill. Would be interesting to get post mortem details on exactly what happened to cause engine to blow.

Was it a fuel-related issue, timing issue, lower end component failure, did the engine overheat due to problems with the cooling system? Was he cruising at steady speed or under acceleration?[/QUOTE]

Under 1/2 throttle coming onto the highway...boom. Cooling sys showed good, still no leaks. Unsure of other stuff.

[Taemian]

If you build an engine go with the Boss 5.0 block!!

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6010BOSS50/

I'd rather go Teksid, and will if the block is toast. Piece of mind and lightweight. I don't want more weight in the front end of this car that an iron block would add, and Teksids are 1000rwhp safe. I'll be lucky to hit 500rwhp at the end of the day..

[Taemian]

Check your intercooler pump. This is the most likely cause particularly if you don't have the relocated IAT.
Also check your Boost-a-Pump.

I have kit #170, IAT is the newer version placement. IC pump seems file, runs when key is on. And temps were reading normal for engine anyways when BOOM happened.

[Taemian]

Yeah, I want a union guy high as a kite working on my engine or someone that regularly does 300 to 2,000+hp engines all day long by hand. You telling me those aluminators come blueprinted and professionally balanced too. :bs: You keep believing what you want, it's STILL an assembly line to make $$$.

I'm a 14 year member of Teamsters Local 155. Thank you for your perspective on union employees.

[RacerX]

Ok. The real deal is I've heard two brand new aluminators now and they have more slop than a pig's pen. Even when they're nice and hot! Tolerances are big from what I have found out and Gawd forbid you send it back to Ford to complain. You'll get it right back. I don't know why anyone would say an assembly line motor (no these don't have Sigs on the valve covers and wouldn't matter if they did) is better than a hands on, custom built motor. That just shows inexperience, a lack of real knowledge or someone got burnt by an unreputable builder. I love Ford! Hell, I had a ton of their stock a couple years ago. Are they micing the rod tolerences, using plastigauge, etc. on the crank bearings, deburring the block to prevent stress fracture points, are the bores plateau finished??? No. Asssseeemmmmbbblllllyyyy line.

[Taemian]

Exactly why I said a retune is necessary if you pully down past 3.2" & or want to run CAI & exhaust along with the Trilogy.
I upgraded my maf to a Lightning 90 MM when I went to
2.8" pulley , it pegged at 5K on the dyno along with some belt slippage.
Lonnie said the belt giving up at 5000 RPM keeps the motor from doing the same.

Pulley is stock, and I just got a bigger MAF from Spectragod. Haven't installed it yet.

[Taemian]

Lidio did mine, I considered an aluminator too, but made what I feel was the wiser of 2 choices.

Lidio's site has no price list, and he's a hard guy to get a hold of, especially from Canada. Love to get an estimate, though. The stroker in Dave's car with the Lyschom is too loud/unruly for a daily driver, I am very happy with an unported Eaton. Porting it brings up volume more than I want, NVH is a big deal to me, I drive a noisy vehicle all day.

[RacerX]

I'm a 14 year member of Teamsters Local 155. Thank you for your perspective on union employees.
I apologize. That was thrown in irrationally and I just restated my position above using facts. I believe those were GM workers doing that and obviously not the entire lot of them.

[Taemian]

Ok. The real deal is I've heard two brand new aluminators now and they have more slop than a pig's pen. Even when they're nice and hot! Tolerances are big from what I have found out and Gawd forbid you send it back to Ford to complain. You'll get it right back. I don't know why anyone would say an assembly line motor (no these don't have Sigs on the valve covers and wouldn't matter if they did) is better than a hands on, custom built motor. That just shows inexperience, a lack of real knowledge or someone got burnt by an unreputable builder. I love Ford! Hell, I had a ton of their stock a couple years ago. Are they micing the rod tolerences, using plastigauge, etc. on the crank bearings, deburring the block to prevent stress fracture points, are the bores plateau finished??? No. Asssseeemmmmbbblllllyyyy line.

Problem lies in finding a good builder. I can't even find a good tuner. Have been looking at MMR, CHP etc to get an idea of pricing.

Anyone with links is asked to post them up!

[Taemian]

I apologize. That was thrown in irrationally and I just restated my position above using facts. I believe those were GM workers doing that and obviously not the entire lot of them.

Thank you. While we do have some members that are idiots and some even have criminal ties, most of us are hard working guys. Every profession has bad apples. It's up to the rest of us to try to prove our professionalism to the public. Apparently we need to do a better job.;)

[sailsmen]

Ok. The real deal is I've heard two brand new aluminators now and they have more slop than a pig's pen. Even when they're nice and hot! Tolerances are big from what I have found out and Gawd forbid you send it back to Ford to complain. You'll get it right back. I don't know why anyone would say an assembly line motor (no these don't have Sigs on the valve covers and wouldn't matter if they did) is better than a hands on, custom built motor. That just shows inexperience, a lack of real knowledge or someone got burnt by an unreputable builder. I love Ford! Hell, I had a ton of their stock a couple years ago. Are they micing the rod tolerences, using plastigauge, etc. on the crank bearings, deburring the block to prevent stress fracture points, are the bores plateau finished??? No. Asssseeemmmmbbblllllyyyy line.

No lack of knowledge but quite the opposite. I have built a few myself and have had engines done by others.
We have seen report after report of well known builders do sloppy work. Easy to do with no warranty.
These builders do not have the R&D, facilities or knowledge that Ford does. There is no way they can match Ford in the cost area either.
There are millions of assembly line engines with over 100,000 miles still running strong. Cannot say the same for builders.

Obviously in theory with cost being no object a builder could improve on what comes from Ford. In practise we are not seeing that. We are seeing story after story of very expensive CRAP from supposedly top builders and to top it off no warranty.
Getting an engine from a builder is a very expensive CRAP SHOOT. Getting an engine from Ford is not.
IF these builders are building such great engines why are they not matching Fords warranty?

[RacerX]

Fords warranty is crap, just like any other. Think about it for a minute. It's a tool for racing that consists of a multitude of parts that are going to get beaten. If the tuner f's up, the builder gets blamed. C'mon, once you have an engine fly apart at 8,000 rpm, you think Ford's (or any builder for that matter) going to get their forensic team to go through it and say it's their bad? You DO NOT even get a build/blueprint sheet with an aluminator!!! What does that tell you! You bring an engine back to PK here, he'll know what's going on. Every damn engine is catalogged with tons of notes and measurements. He's expensive, but, the real deal. Too bad there aren't more like him I guess, or maybe most of the good ones have been sucked up by the monstrous Nascar money making juggernaut!
I was in your position not long ago. Listen, we disagree on this, no bigee. :beer:

[99SVT]

Taemian: PM sent

I'd still like to know what exactly broke on the engine and how much would be salvagable before pulling the trigger on a crate motor.

From my research, none of the crate motor builders have had perfect track records, I've seen built engines come apart from nearly all of them. Get what works for you and double check what shows up on your doorstep. My motor had stripped oil pickup bolt holes, which could have been catastophic if not caught before it was installed.

[FordNut]

Problem lies in finding a good builder. I can't even find a good tuner. Have been looking at MMR, CHP etc to get an idea of pricing.

Anyone with links is asked to post them up!

Modular Performance, in Detroit (Novi), Michigan.

[FordNut]

Boss is nice but what's the budget and intended usage of the car? Costs start to add up "project creep" comes to mind if your not careful.

We know all too well about this, don't we?

[BUCKWHEAT]

I decided against the Boss 5.0 only because of cooling concerns using it as a daily driver. Lidio is building me a stroker 5.0 with factory aluminum block. He will do the tune & deliver a final product ready to go. You might want to talk to him.


If you build an engine go with the Boss 5.0 block!!

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6010BOSS50/

[mcgyver59]

I decided against the Boss 5.0 only because of cooling concerns using it as a daily driver. Lidio is building me a stroker 5.0 with factory aluminum block. He will do the tune & deliver a final product ready to go. You might want to talk to him.

A Boss 5.0 block has no issues cooling and will outlast a stroked 4.6 by thousands and thousands of miles. A strroked 4.6 has a really long stroke which reduces piston life.

[na svt]

Aluminmators are still assembly line product!!! Have a professional engine builder that works on Ford mod motors build you something BETTER for the same or less!!!.
So are 03/04 longblocks and no one hesitates to use them. The one problem with them though is their low compression which drop 50hp when compared to a stock marauder shortblock.


Unless your MAF pegs, the computer knows exactly how much air is coming in and sends the appropriate ammount of fuel.
That's only when not at full throttle. When the pedal is to the floor the Computer does what the tune tells it to do and that is based on the mods at the time of the tune. If what you are saying is true, we would never have to get a tune.


A Boss 5.0 block has no issues cooling and will outlast a stroked 4.6 by thousands and thousands of miles. A strroked 4.6 has a really long stroke which reduces piston life.
Stoked engines last a very long time as long as they are assembled by a competent person. I've seen many go 50k miles and more. Also, a boss block adds 80lbs to the front of an already heavy *** car...no need to do that.

[RacerX]

So are 03/04 longblocks and no one hesitates to use them.
I should say that all engines should be checked by a competent engine builder before going into a higher performance project. For a 400rwhp DD, I suppose I wouldn't care too much. Unless I wanted it to last 200,000 miles.

That's only when not at full throttle. When the pedal is to the floor the Computer does what the tune tells it to do and that is based on the mods at the time of the tune. If what you are saying is true, we would never have to get a tune.
In most cases, if your MAF xfer is correct and you add mods, let's say a CAI, your MAF at WOT sees more #/min of air and calls on whatever entry point is there in the tune. If it's calibrated properly already, no need for a retune.

You do have a lot more knowledge than I in this Todd and I have actually learned a lot from you.

[na svt]

In most cases, if your MAF xfer is correct and you add mods, let's say a CAI, your MAF at WOT sees more #/min of air and calls on whatever entry point is there in the tune. If it's calibrated properly already, no need for a retune.
You can make any change to the exhaust and not risk burning up an engine, but make changes to the intake side or swap a pulley on a blown car and you are asking for trouble. On FI cars the number of things that can go wrong are numerous and lot of those have been mentioned in this thread, like IATs, intercooler problems, BAP/fuel issues, etc. The lower the boost the less chance of engine damage but in some cases it can't be stopped. Stock pistons are suseptible to damage when the IATs gets hot, timing is advanced too much, bad fuel is used, goes the least bit lean or when pushed at full throttle for a long time.

I watched a guy install a lightning upper pulley on an 2000 mile, 04 cobra (tuned for the stock pulley), a 1/2 mile later he had a burnt piston. Even forged engines aren't immune from damage due to small changes.

[sailsmen]

On 2 separate occasions on 2 separate Dynos I have seen 2 different Trilogy MM that had a CAI, Exhaust and smaller pulley abort the first Dyno run due to running lean.

Each one required a retune.

[RacerX]

.............................. .........

[sailsmen]

.............................. .............................. ............

[Taemian]

Taemian: PM sent

I'd still like to know what exactly broke on the engine and how much would be salvagable before pulling the trigger on a crate motor.

From my research, none of the crate motor builders have had perfect track records, I've seen built engines come apart from nearly all of them. Get what works for you and double check what shows up on your doorstep. My motor had stripped oil pickup bolt holes, which could have been catastophic if not caught before it was installed.

Thanks for the PM. I'm really torn on what to do, as once I get this towed somewhere, I've got to make decisions fast.

[Taemian]

Modular Performance, in Detroit (Novi), Michigan.

Hearing very good things about them.

[Taemian]

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/pts/2465873001.html

What about this?
I've never hear of using the Navigator heads before. Sketchy or not? Work with the Trilogy set up?

01 forged Stang crank...different than the Termi crank?

[Chevyguy]

Thanks for the PM. I'm really torn on what to do, as once I get this towed somewhere, I've got to make decisions fast.

Need to get engine Fast = Get an Aluminator High compression

Have time to do homework and wait = get engine built

I would rather an Aluminator vs a "Off the shelf" custom crate engine.

Plus I would only get a short block and assemble myself and check ooot everything. My used 2004 2V was essentially an unassembled long block. It was great to see the pistons and valves, check out inside the short block etc..

[BJNashvillePrez]

i have a question about a swap who can help

[tbone]

Both UAW engine builders signature appear on the Valve cover of the engine.
If there is a problem, there is accountable for work done.
It seems as though the Union worker is to blame for all that the manufactures
problems. I wounder if the big wigs who make 300 to 400 times the Union worker
wages could have been keeping an eye on the store. After all what are they getting
paid for? Most union worker are good honest hard working people, that want the
american dream. They don't live in Muiltmillion eastates, with bonuses for cutting
corners, lowering labor costs. Always demanding give backs.
One guy told me the other day, if you were to stop the checks of all the Senators
Congressman and white house staff including the President, you would see how fast
this debacial would end. I think it's a good idea.

Demonizing management. Not the answer, imo.

[dohc324ci]

We know all too well about this, don't we?

Brian it's your fault I spent sooooo much money. Now I gotta figure out how to make 600rwhp while living in Cali!

[CBT]

Brian it's your fault I spent sooooo much money. Now I gotta figure out how to make 600rwhp while living in Cali!

Weld the front bumper of one Marauder to the back bumper of another Marauder. 8 wheels, 600 HP, aaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwyy yyyyyyyyeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh hhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MM03MOK]

i have a question about a swap who can help
I suggest you start a new thread asking your specific questions.