BOSS324 Dyno this weekend...how much RWHP

[dohc324ci]

Okay gang she is going in this weekend to get dyno tuned at AEDHP.COM keeping the fingers crossed hoping to make some decent power. Guessing 350-360rwhp; what say you?

Here is my complete setup:

5.3L DOHC 324ci 10:1cr
FRPP BOSS50 Iron Block, MMR 900S Stroker assembly, ARP Rod & Main Stud
Forged Manley Pistons, MMR 4340 Rods, Clevite Main/rod bearings
MMR Stage III P&P Heads/Comp Cams Springs and Cams Stage 2 XE270BH-114/FRPP FR500 SS Valves
MMR Ported Intake w/PHP spacer
MMR Racing Oil Pump & MMR Windage Tray
FRPP Water Pump, 39lb Injectors, GT40 Fuel Pump
FRPP Ceramic Coated Shorty Header, Magnaflow X Pipe, Corsa db Black 2.5" Cat delete
JLT CAI, SCT BA 3000, SCT X3, NGK TR6 Plugs and Accel Coils
Built 4R75W Transmission w/valve body and XHD Series 2600 Stall TC


Comp Cam 106-400 Specs:
Basic Operating RPM Range 1,800-6,200
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 234
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 232
Duration at 050 inch Lift 234 int./232 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration 269
Advertised Exhaust Duration 267
Advertised Duration 269 int./267 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.475 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.450 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.475 int./0.450 exh.
114 Lobe Separation (degrees)

[2,4shofast]

It sounds amazing! I can wait to find out what it makes...my guess is 345

[dohc324ci]

Thanks man I really enjoy the exhaust setup very mild at idle and cruise. But get on it and its just ballsy. OK that sounds about right.

[Ktorres1]

Love the set up feel free to post up some more videos.

[MOTOWN]

Healthy lungs! sounds great keep us posted

[BJNashvillePrez]

im jealous

[FordNut]

I'll guess 365...

[RacerX]

RWHP? I'll say 336. That puts her @ 420 crank.

[Mike]

Sounds good and.....Linkin Park FTW :bows:

[CBT]

I will say 324.

[dohc324ci]

I will say 324.

The good ole 1 HP per cubic inch formula huh. If I make that it would be a disappointment and a SC would be fast tracked!

[RacerX]

The good ole 1 HP per cubic inch formula huh. If I make that it would be a disappointment and a SC would be fast tracked!
Oh Brian... :( That's 405 @ the crank, which would be 1.25hp/ci. Which is actually pretty good considering NA and automatic driveline loss. :D
I still say 420rwhp... ;) You're forgiven!

[DTUB]

What fuel are you using?
I'll say its going to be somewhere between 300 and 400

[dohc324ci]

I'll guess 365...

I hope so!!!


RWHP? I'll say 336. That puts her @ 420 crank.

Not a total loss but:depress:


Sounds good and.....Linkin Park FTW :bows:

The wife has good taste:D


Oh Brian... :( That's 405 @ the crank, which would be 1.25hp/ci. Which is actually pretty good considering NA and automatic driveline loss. :D

I still say 420rwhp... ;) You're forgiven!

whoa that would be shocking!


What fuel are you using?
I'll say its going to be somewhere between 300 and 400

91 Octane is all we have out in Cali.

[Blown3.8]

Close to 400

[RacerX]

Oops! Now I'm doing it!! :-) 420 crank, 336rwhp. With those cams, I wouldn't be surprised if you get more than that though!

[Mike M]

How did you get it to 5.3? I just stroked mine to 5.0 but it is coming back apart. I would like to go 5.3, can it be done with stock alum block?

[dohc324ci]

FRPP Iron Big Bore block 302ci + stroker will bring you to 324ci

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/category.asp

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/m5lp_0803_frpp_mustang_block/viewall.html

Manufacturer: Ford Racing
Part No.: M6010-BOSS50
The Boss 5.0 block is a 4.6L deck height, 94mm cylinder bore cast iron block. Cast in Ford's Cleveland plant, it uses a proprietary iron mix to yield the strongest possible casting strength with least porosity and greatest consistency.


Siamese 94mm Bore
17mm main web minimal thickness
4 Bolt Main with interference fit nodular iron machined caps
Increased main web window size for less oil movement and greater power

[Mike M]

Ahhh, so I guess the alum block is good for 5.0?

[dohc324ci]

Lidio had a nice write up on what he used to do with the big bore sleeves in an aluminum block. IIRC Brian (FORDNUT) did a 5.3 alluminum but $$$ I went with the BOSS because of these articles and the power with Fordnuts setup was making. It will be the last block you will ever need.

Modular Performance article - http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/m5lp_0809_big_bore_modular_bui ld/viewall.html

Lidio Article - http://www.alternativeauto.com/prodserv/bigbore_page_2.html

[Blown3.8]

Got a buddy that just built one for his mark 8. He did 11.5:1 CR has ported B Heads and cams. Got to 324 at 5200 rpm before something in the tune fouled up and wouldn't keep the converter lock or whatever.

[dohc324ci]

Wow a whole point on compression 324 at 5200rpm....STD? what was he shooting for? What all else he have done? exhaust stock or??

[Blown3.8]

He was lookin for 350. I think he has headers, I know he has electric cutouts. Here's a build thread http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=133810

And another with the dyno stuff http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=136233

[Ktorres1]

Can't wait for the numbers as I'm kinda back and forth between all n/a power with with added durability or supercharging. Got till next year to think about it but this thread helps as I seek knowledge.

[Ktorres1]

Before I take my guess what were your previous numbers and what have you changed ?

[dohc324ci]

When I first installed the MMR boss50 stroker it had gt40 cams with stock exhaust (weld in flowmasters) I made 300rwhp/340rwtq (SAE). Unknown to me at the time the heli coil TPS Motorsports installed at the time didnt allow for optimum spark (plug wasnt protruding into the chamber). So don't know what I should have made truly. I'll dig up my old dyno sheet lots of peaks and valley.

[Joe Walsh]

Based on an extrapolation from my 305 cid to your 324 cid, I'll guess 345 RWHP/361 RWTQ.

[BODYMAN]

I'am gonna go with right sabout what Joe said 345ish to the wheels. Also considering Fordnut's #'s before blower, N/A He was 365 and probably a little more done to it.

[dohc324ci]

IIRC the difference between Brian's (FordNut) and my setup was long tubes vs FRPP shorties, electric water pump vs FRPP water pump, ported upper intake vs OE, Accufab throttle body vs OE as well as 9.5:1cr vs 10:1, and 93 octane vs 91 octane. Also, I dont know which comp cams he had but I know he netted 368rwhp IIRC....

[Blown3.8]

Thats right, you got that crappie 91 octane.

[FordNut]

Thats right, you got that crappie 91 octane.

91 is ok for me, I made 751 on it :)

I made my guess based on what I made and the fact that Brian has a little more compression and now has hotter cams than I have (and hotter than he had for his previous build).

[jdando]

340 is my estimate

[dohc324ci]

Anything less than 350 at the wheels I would be disappointed.

[Chevyguy]

This guy got 347RWHP with a similar short block and TFS 2V heads

http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2360697&page=1

[dohc324ci]

Results in from AEDHP.COM Dyno Tune:

Peak 331 RWHP and 370 RWTQ 22' timing

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/dohc324ci/0c06e8aa.jpg?t=1314493914


Street Tune - 321 RWHP and 360.5 RWTQ 20' timing

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/dohc324ci/cf31ed8b.jpg?t=1314493925

[RacerX]

NICE! Don't be disappointed! Those are nice numbers! Think of it this way: 331 rwhp and 370rwtq is about 414hp @ the crank and you're getting about 1.18hp per ci. That's great! That torque is awesome too! 300rwtq @2,250 rpm! Now supercharge it!!!

P.S. I was 5hp off and Casey was 2nd @6hp off. ;)

[dohc324ci]

Hey Bill, yeah those are good numbers the torque is great! You and Casey are right on point!! But yes pretty happy drivability is even better. Gone is the throttle tip in dive in RPMS and idles again like OE stuff. Cant complain a safe tune for Cali fuel. The tuner thinks the intake and cams aren't a good match because it peaks at 4875rpm. But she'll have to do for a while.

[FordNut]

Really nice torque numbers, you'll enjoy that for sure.

[MOTOWN]

Congrats bud! great numbers , i would luv to push that power N/A

[dohc324ci]

Really nice torque numbers, you'll enjoy that for sure.

Thanks B. I am really enjoying the torque and the tune is spot on as drivability is concerned. Drive and shifts like stock until you push the go pedal:D


Congrats bud! great numbers , i would luv to push that power N/A

Thanks Man. Yes power its putting down makes for more enjoyment when spirited driving is concerned:beer:

[guspech750]

Saaaweeeeeeeeeeeet numbers!! A big WOW on your torque!!


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Eaton Swap = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[dohc324ci]

FYI had four runs to dial in a safe street daily driver tune.

First - 315/354
Second - 331/370
Third - 324/375
Final - 321/360.5

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[BODYMAN]

I bet youre car is a blast to drive those are very respectful N/A #'s for a 4V. Theres something about N/A and 370 in TQ the feel while driving it has to be great! CONGRATS on the rebirth :beer:

[dohc324ci]

I bet youre car is a blast to drive those are very respectful N/A #'s for a 4V. Theres something about N/A and 370 in TQ the feel while driving it has to be great! CONGRATS on the rebirth :beer:

Yes very fun to drive indeed! I really like the tune that Shaun over AEDHP.com did its drivability is stock like idle/cruise but hit the go pedal and boom:burnout:

[BODYMAN]

I love them videos you can tell listening to them it's all motor and man does it sound healthy!!

[dohc324ci]

Think of it this way: 331 rwhp and 370rwtq is about 414hp @ the crank and you're getting about 1.18hp per ci.

Hey Bill what math are you using? .25% (331*.25 413.75/370*.25 462.5) trans loss? Ive always used .20-.22

[sailsmen]

Drive line/trans is not a percentage. IT is not a variable. It does not know what the CHP is. It is a constant. In the case of the MM ~60RWHP is the factor to add to get CHP.

[dohc324ci]

OK dunno what your trying to get at? But whatever......:dunno:

[sailsmen]

It takes X amount of HP to turn the driveline regardless of what the CHP is. If you have an engine that has 1,000,000 CHP it does not take 20% or 200,000 CHP to turn the driveline.
For the MM it takes ~60 HP to turn the driveline.
999,940 RWHP equals 1,000,000 CHP for the MM. Not 20% driveline which would equal ~1,200,000 CHP.

My point it driveline is a constant not a variable.

For the MM just add 60 to the RWHP number to get CHP.

There is a great story about Dyno Jet on hot rod.com;
"Dynojet's final number-fudge was arbitrarily based on a number from the most powerful road-going motorcycle of the time, the '85 1,200cc Yamaha VMax. The VMax had 145 advertised factory horsepower, which was far above the raw 90hp number spit out by the formula. Meanwhile, existing aftermarket torque-cell engine dynamometers delivered numbers that clustered around 120. Always a pragmatist, Dobeck finally ordered his Chief Engineer to doctor the math so that the Dynojet 100 measured 120 hp for a stock VMax. And that was that: For once and forever, the power of everything else in the world would be relative to the '85 Yamaha VMax and a fudged imaginary number. Dobeck's engineering staff was dismayed by the decision,

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/113_0603_dynojet_chassis_dyno/viewall.html#ixzz1WIAQzob5"

A dyno is a ruler, so long as we are all using the same ruler is all that matters.

[dohc324ci]

Oh ok gotcha so 321 + 60 381CHP

It takes 60HP to turn the driveline? Ill have to check your link interesting.

[sailsmen]

I use to use the 20% factor too because that's what I was told. Until one day it dawned on me that the driveline drag does not know what the CHP is..

[Ktorres1]

Great torque number! Id live to see What she runs in the 1/4 mile.

[Ktorres1]

Maybe that should be out next guessing game

[Ktorres1]

13.2 is my 1/4 guess

[na svt]

It takes X amount of HP to turn the driveline regardless of what the CHP is.
So You're saying that it takes 60hp to turn a driveline 1rpm and the same amount to turn it 6000rpm? That isn't right.


This guy got 347RWHP with a similar short block and TFS 2V heads
It makes good peak power but the midrange hp and tq aren't that good.
That engine seems to be suffering from a lack of overlap. Notice how dohc324ci's combo makes more tq at 3000rpm, a 4v shouldn't make more low end than a 2v. Oh, and I like how he uses a 22% drivetrain loss.

[na svt]

The tuner thinks the intake and cams aren't a good match because it peaks at 4875rpm. But she'll have to do for a while.
That tells me your cams have way less than 234 deg dur (106400s)...way less. 106400s in a 324 with a stock intake peaks at 6300 because of the intake, not the cams. Put those same cams in a 324 with a sullivan and it'll peak at 7250rpm. Your peak power is occuring at a point consistent with the 212 degree FR500s. The torque is also right where it would be with FR500s. 106400s will not make more tq than they will hp unless the intake cams are installed at a very low LC; around 103, and even then it's doubtful.

[sailsmen]

So You're saying that it takes 60hp to turn a driveline 1rpm and the same amount to turn it 6000rpm? That isn't right.


I like how he uses a 22% drivetrain loss.

No that is not what I am saying at all. "In the case of the MM ~60RWHP is the factor to add to get CHP." What I am saying is using a % applied to RWHP to get CHP is WRONG.

Who is measuring HP at 1 rpm? I don't see where that is being discussed. What is being discussed is peak HP at

Assuming we are talking about a MM engine with the stock redline and that a Dyno run would go to redline you can use ~60 to convert RWHP to CHP.

[na svt]

No that is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is using a % applied to RWHP to get CHP is WRONG.
I agree. Who cares about crank hp anyway, it's the amount that gets to the ground that matters.

[sailsmen]

Yes, all that matters is the RWHP. MFGs publish crank HP so when you talk to your friend with the Mercedes, BMW, ect use 30% to bust his balls.

[Chevyguy]

Surprised a built up 5.3 swap but no long tubes!!! Edit duh you are in California not exactly CARB certified to put in long tube headers relocating the cats and all.. So move to Montana and Swap in some Stainless works long tubes and a new Dyno tune and that engine will ERUPT the torque curve. May have the first official 12 second NA car!!

[RacerX]

Hey Bill what math are you using? .25% (331*.25 413.75/370*.25 462.5) trans loss? Ive always used .20-.22
Hehe!!! That is rwhp hp/ci. Crank hp/ci is: 1.27!!! ;)

(Like Todd said, rwhp is what we're really interested in!)

[FordNut]

Surprised a built up 5.3 swap but no long tubes!!! Edit duh you are in California not exactly CARB certified to put in long tube headers relocating the cats and all.. So move to Montana and Swap in some Stainless works long tubes and a new Dyno tune and that engine will ERUPT the torque curve. May have the first official 12 second NA car!!

I believe Joe's stroker has done 12's N/A. My BB/S did it too, long ago.

[Chevyguy]

I believe Joe's stroker has done 12's N/A. My BB/S did it too, long ago.

Ha Ha legend has it that "No 4V Panther has done 12's N/A" I suspected this to be crappo!!

I think that the CARB should give a waiver for a set of Stainless works long tubes if you show em this dyno graph..

Look man.. That engine is BEGGING to be let loose :) (Plus maybe degree the cams too?)

[na svt]

Look man.. That engine is BEGGING to be let loose :) (Plus maybe degree the cams too?)
The cams should be degreed, any respectable shop will always degree them upon installation. However, most don't know where to put them to acheive the best powerband. They assume the specs on the cam card is where they should be...how wrong they are.


Results in from AEDHP.COM Dyno Tune
What make is their Dyno?


Hey Bill what math are you using? .25% (331*.25 413.75/370*.25 462.5) trans loss? Ive always used .20-.22
Most recently I've ween 13% for manuals and %17% for automatics, but who knows how accurate that is.

[dohc324ci]

The cams should be degreed, any respectable shop will always degree them upon installation. However, most don't know where to put them to acheive the best powerband. They assume the specs on the cam card is where they should be...how wrong they are.

So Todd what do you think I could do to extract more power NA? Should I can those cams and do a custom grind? I have no idea what the mystery cams are...other than what Mark said he thought they were (106400). They were billet so dunno. I may down the line have AED check them but right now they'll have to do as they are now.


What make is their Dyno?

From their website:

"State of the art Dynocom Chassis Dyno supports 2000HP and 200MPH.
In ground setup for ease of use with lowered cars. (including the Ford GT)
Industry leading ECM electronics AFM 1500 Wideband for accurate Air Fuel readings. We keep our wideband sensors calibrated to within .01% at all times, with backup sensors in stock."


Most recently I've ween 13% for manuals and %17% for automatics, but who knows how accurate that is.

I always hear discrepancies when comparing Mach I auto vs Marauder auto...essentially 15-18% on the Mach vs 20-25% on the Marauder....dunno:confused:

[na svt]

From their website: "State of the art Dynocom Chassis Dyno"
I wonder how they compare to dynojets?

[CBT]

NICE! Don't be disappointed! Those are nice numbers! Think of it this way: 331 rwhp and 370rwtq is about 414hp @ the crank and you're getting about 1.18hp per ci. That's great! That torque is awesome too! 300rwtq @2,250 rpm! Now supercharge it!!!

P.S. I was 5hp off and Casey was 2nd @6hp off. ;)

You win THIS time, Obi Wan.....:cool:


Hey Bill, yeah those are good numbers the torque is great! You and Casey are right on point!! But yes pretty happy drivability is even better. Gone is the throttle tip in dive in RPMS and idles again like OE stuff. Cant complain a safe tune for Cali fuel. The tuner thinks the intake and cams aren't a good match because it peaks at 4875rpm. But she'll have to do for a while.

You're making more than I am! :beer:

[dohc324ci]

^^always could use mo powa!

[FordNut]

"State of the art Dynocom Chassis Dyno


I wonder how they compare to dynojets?

That could explain a lot. We know there are differences between Mustang dynos and Dynojet dynos, so these could be different also. Almost all of the cars you're comparing to have been run on Dynojets.

[RacerX]

Hmmm... Bob Kurgan doesn't like Dynocom dynos.

[Vortech347]

This is one application where long tubes would make a huge difference.