Disappearing Oil Mod Trick [Archive] - MercuryMarauder.net Forums

ctrlraven

10-11-2011, 06:07 AM

This should get your brain working some....

This year I have noticed having to add oil between oil changes. Past few oil changes I have been almost a quart low after 5k miles. I did my last oil change about 1600-1700 miles ago and I checked my oil yesterday and I was a whole quart low! I'm sure I have weep leaks because the motor has 164-165k miles on it but I am not leaking anything on the ground and the underside of the motor is not soaked or wet with oil. My car smokes for less than 1 second on start-up after it has sat for more than 4-5 days (but it's always done that since I got it), if it is driven everyday or every other day I don't see any smoke. I also have a Musclemerc oil catch can and I drained out about an ounce of oil when I checked it yesterday hoping I wouldn't find all of my missing in it. Exhaust is pretty clean inside for the most part and not blowing out any burned oil ash or soot.

Recap: high mileage motor, doesn't smoke on start-up, no major or minor oil leaks, gets a fair amount of oil blow-by but not anymore than normal and exhaust is blowing out any oil ash or soot. I've been using Mobil 1 5W20 Syn for a couple years now.

So where has the oil disappeared to?

guspech750

10-11-2011, 06:14 AM

The oil gods.

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fastblackmerc

10-11-2011, 06:15 AM

The oil gods.

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Eaton Swap = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

Not gods...... gremlins!

Phrog_gunner

10-11-2011, 06:27 AM

You may be accounting for this with your comment about no oil or soot in exhaust, but from my experience full synthetics don't smoke like dino oils do. Have you ever used Lucas brand stuff?

ctrlraven

10-11-2011, 06:45 AM

You may be accounting for this with your comment about no oil or soot in exhaust, but from my experience full synthetics don't smoke like dino oils do. Have you ever used Lucas brand stuff?
The only Lucas stuff I have used on this motor has been Upper Cylinder Lube & Fuel Injector Cleaner.

Phrog_gunner

10-11-2011, 07:03 AM

The only Lucas stuff I have used on this motor has been Upper Cylinder Lube & Fuel Injector Cleaner.

If it were my car I would throw in a quart of their Oil Stabilizer (I think they even make a synthetic specific oil stabilizer now). After working at the FLAPs for almost 9yrs I am HUGELY against "magic in a can". But, I have used Lucas in my beaters and always had it work very well.

bolsen

10-11-2011, 07:07 AM

Your oil is going to the same place my socks wind up...THE BLACK HOLE!!!

Seriously though, keep us informed on whatever you find. Hopefully it's nothing major.

ctrlraven

10-11-2011, 07:17 AM

I've thought about throwing some Lucas in just to see what happens and even maybe switch to a slightly thicker oil.

If I used the Oil Stabilizer, would I want to use the regular or synthetic kind?

Regular
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=25&catid=7&loc=show

Synthetic
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=49&catid=7&loc=show&headTitle=%20-%20Lucas%20Synthetic%20Oil%20S tabilizer

Phrog_gunner

10-11-2011, 07:23 AM

I've thought about throwing some Lucas in just to see what happens and even maybe switch to a slightly thicker oil.

If I used the Oil Stabilizer, would I want to use the regular or synthetic kind?

If you are using Mobil 1 I would use the one for synthetic oil. I would use that for two oil changes. The first oil change to let it "work" and the second oil change to verify that your oil consumption has significantly diminished. Once that happens, I would say that really points the finger at your valve stem seals.

ctrlraven

10-11-2011, 07:42 AM

Thanks, I'll do that and report back I guess.

DOOM

10-11-2011, 08:00 AM

I would go with the synthetic! That's what I use.

TFB

10-11-2011, 08:14 AM

With the amount of mileage, probably the valve stem seals are starting to fail... Possibly a high mileage oil will help with your problem, I've heard good things posted about Mobil 1 HM oils over on BITOG... Usually takes a change or two to net a major improvement...

ctrlraven

10-11-2011, 08:25 AM

If the valve stems seals are failing, for repair would a new valvetrain set be needed or can I just replace the seals?

I see Mobil 1 has 5W-30 HM synthetic oil.

Phrog_gunner

10-11-2011, 08:28 AM

If the valve stems seals are failing, for repair would a new valvetrain set be needed or can I just replace the seals?

I dont know about 4v specifically but I have done just the seals on a 2v CV I had. You can get a spark plug adapter for a compressed air hose that will pressurize the cylinder (hold the valves up) while you remov the keepers and springs long enough to change the seals.

Phrog_gunner

10-11-2011, 08:30 AM

I see Mobil 1 has 5W-30 HM synthetic oil.

I bet that would be a very good alternative to adding Lucas. I didn't know they made that in synthetic either.

RF Overlord

10-11-2011, 08:32 AM

Seals alone can be replaced, but before you go to that much effort 32 times, try a different oil. I'm not knocking Mobil 1, it's a great oil, but Phoebe didn't like it. I switched to Pennzoil Platinum and went from a quart in 3,500 miles to less than a quart in 5,000.

ctrlraven

10-11-2011, 08:35 AM

I found a thread on corral.net about it
http://forums.corral.net/forums/svt-dohc/1196646-how-replace-valve-seals-4v.html

ctrlraven

10-11-2011, 09:10 AM

I found new valve stem seals for $80.

http://www.modularheadshop.com/Parts.htm#4V_performance_valve ,_spring,_and_seal_combo_ (scroll down some)
4V valve stem seals
Item Price $79 set of 32 seals
http://www.modularheadshop.com/images/Seals.jpg

Flat rate shipping of $10 on all orders to lower 48 states!
Performance Viton Valve Stem Seals for the 4V heads. These seals are drop in replacements with tighter sealing as the OEM seals are known to consume oil in these motors. There are other blue colored seals on the market much cheaper, but they do not seal as tight as these or last as long.

wickedmerc

10-11-2011, 09:24 AM

While I don't have an answer to your disappearing oil I will offer you this....

My 64k mile motor used to puff a little at start-up too. Not every time, sometimes. There was no evidence of oil leaking or burning otherwise (ie nothing under the car at all, nothing on the motor, nothing out the pipes, nothing). About 4 months/3k miles after getting a Mobil1 full synthetic oil change (and NOT checking it at all!! :mad:) I get a rattle. Checked oil.....4 qts low. Done.
Moral of the story: a little puff/blowby here and there = more oil lost that you think. Keep a close eye on it.

:twocents:

ctrlraven

10-11-2011, 09:29 AM

I check my oil just about every time I drive the car and I don't drive it every day.

I was 2 qts low once but that was due to the oil filter adapter going bad and had that replaced as soon as I noticed.

Mac-MerC

10-11-2011, 10:15 AM

Ive been struggling with this issue since i first got the car with 26k (now at 100k) on the clock, only have used motorcraft oil.

if the stem seals is the issue let me know cuz i hate checking my oil every few days

ctrlraven

10-11-2011, 10:22 AM

I'm pricing around how much to have them done. After looking online a lot this morning about the subject it also looks like it can relate to loss of power and gas mileage which could explain a few other things I've noticed.

TFB

10-11-2011, 11:19 AM

For the moment I'd just go with a high mileage oil and see how it does, if it hasn't improved by spring then look a bit deeper...

One way to tell if the seals are leaking is have some one follow you and run up to around 60mph in 2nd, then back off and let speed drop to 35-40mph(don't brake), at that point accelerate at half throttle... If it puffs a a noticeable amount of smoke, the stem seals are most likely worn...

Note engine should be at full operating temp when the test is performed...

Phrog_gunner

10-11-2011, 11:25 AM

ctrlraven

10-11-2011, 11:33 AM

If it doesn't cost an arm and a leg I'll just go ahead and have them replaced, would save on buying extra oil over time.

Phrog_gunner

10-11-2011, 11:35 AM

If it doesn't cost an arm and a leg I'll just go ahead and have them replaced, would save on buying extra oil over time.

The labor is probably significant.

TFB

10-11-2011, 01:26 PM

Synthetics can burn clean enough that there is no visible smoke.
Old wives tail...

The labor is probably significant.

Likely VERY significant...

I've replaced the valve stem seals on one side of a 4.6 2V, was a PITA... Oil consumption went from around 600mi quart to 1500mi, I said that's good enough and never did repl the driver side, sold it a year or so later...

Phrog_gunner

10-11-2011, 01:42 PM

Old wives tail...

Wives tale? Well then, since his car isn't smoking, I guess it can't be the valve stem seals.

TFB

10-11-2011, 02:17 PM

Wives tale? Well then, since his car isn't smoking, I guess it can't be the valve stem seals.

Won't likely notice ANY smoke at 1600-1700 mi to a quart, no matter what type of oil is used...

It may smoke some doing the deceleration test, probably not a lot...

ctrlraven

10-11-2011, 04:02 PM

I will do the deceleration test.

mcgyver59

10-11-2011, 05:37 PM

It will take you at least 12 hours to replace the seals.

babbage

10-11-2011, 06:10 PM

T Prok

10-11-2011, 08:27 PM

are the spark plugs clean?:confused:
I had an f150 that had bad valve seals and a couple of the plugs were soaked in oil. I ran regular dino oil so I am not sure what the plugs would look like if they were getting soaked in syn. oil.
My Mark VIII would almost always burn a quart of oil at 5k miles.
my oil change would consist of, dump 4 quarts, change filter, filler up with 5quarts.:burnout:

ctrlraven

10-12-2011, 05:27 AM

Or you could try running a treatment of Auto-Rx (http://auto-rx.com/)to clean, recondition the seals - stopping your oil consumption. You'll know it worked when you no longer get smoke on startup.

What you do is change your oil with cheap dino oil, dump in bottle of Auto-Rx drive 1500 miles, then drain oil new filter new dino oil 1500 more miles to rinse. Then drain and run what ever oil you want.

Mine used to smoke on start sometimes - I did this and it does not smoke on start anymore at all.

If you are going to pull the heads for seals you might as well do a lot more.
I'm not getting any abnormal smoke on start-up unless the car sits longer than 5 days at a time, it's done that for years now.

are the spark plugs clean?:confused:
I had an f150 that had bad valve seals and a couple of the plugs were soaked in oil. I ran regular dino oil so I am not sure what the plugs would look like if they were getting soaked in syn. oil.
My Mark VIII would almost always burn a quart of oil at 5k miles.
my oil change would consist of, dump 4 quarts, change filter, filler up with 5quarts.:burnout:
I have not pulled the plugs yet, that will be my next thing to do this Friday cause I'll bring the car to my shop.

So if the plugs are any kind of wet with oil, what is that a sign of?

fastblackmerc

10-12-2011, 05:31 AM

So if the plugs are any kind of wet with oil, what is that a sign of?

Bad rings or valve stem seals.

ctrlraven

10-12-2011, 06:12 AM

Bad rings or valve stem seals.
I already know the rings aren't the best because of the increase in blow-by BUT I did recently change my PCV which I know helped cut down on some of the blow-by I was collecting in my catch can.

I might as well just go ahead and replace the valve stem seals and guides.

TFB

10-12-2011, 06:56 AM

At 165K mi, the problem could be a combination of rings and the seals... If it has a noticeable amount of blowby out the oil fill when running with the PCV just hanging in mid air but connected to vacuum, the rings are likely at least part of the problem as well...

Reading plugs just verifies there is oil entering the cylinder(s), you'll still have no real indication of how the oil is getting in there... Plus until consumption is around 1000 per qt, the plugs may well not be oily... A whitish ash build up could be early sign of oil burning but some fuel additives can produce same...

Do the decel test, if it doesn't smoke the rings are probably the issue...

Siege

10-12-2011, 11:20 AM

You could always rent a leak down tester from Autozone if you have an air compressor or take it to a shop to have one done.

That will help you pinpoint rings vs valve seals.

Marauderjack

10-12-2011, 02:53 PM

My experience is you have to be losing more than a quart per 1000 miles to begin to see a smoke screen on deceleration and a puff here and there on start-up is nothing!!:cool:

My engine has 235K on it and still uses no oil between 5000 mile changes and puffs every now and then since new but I have used upper cylinder lube from the beginning!!:beer:

My guess is you are sucking oil in through the PCV somehow??:cool4: