Still overheating...

[maraudermetz]

I know I know, same old same old. Please continue reading. I have had nothing but problems with my Rauder this year. Currently, im having overheating issues that will not seem to go away no matter what I do. Radiator fan has been replaced, new thermostat has been installed, new reservoir cap purchased, car has been burped and still to no avail what so ever. It will idle fine at a decent temperature and I can drive maybe a quarter of a mile before it climbs. No matter how many times I bleed the cooling system it seems more and more air is in there. I cannot even take the crossover cap off without it blowing air and coolant out. I understand it is a pressurized system but the amount of air in there just doesnt seem possible. I have burned my hand multiple times. If I am not mistaken I should be able to remove the cap and watch fluid flow through after the car has reached proper temperature correct? What do I do. I have literally bled the car seven times and it is like it keeps taking in air. I had added 3 50/50 blend bottles to it and its like that doesnt even affect it. Also, I have noticed when my heat is on it is draining my volt gauge and its reading an 11-12. Mechanic time? Water pump? I need help bad. Feel free to ask for any questions.

Thanks.

[maraudermetz]

I should also mention. I have had a similar situation happen before. Had mechanic replace thermostat and it was fine up until now. My heat takes forever to get warm and is also sub par which leads me to believe there is air in the heater core possibly.

[ctrlraven]

Are you burping the car with the front end on level ground or with the front end elevated?

[Phrog_gunner]

I know I know, same old same old. Please continue reading. I have had nothing but problems with my Rauder this year. Currently, im having overheating issues that will not seem to go away no matter what I do. Radiator fan has been replaced, new thermostat has been installed, new reservoir cap purchased, car has been burped and still to no avail what so ever. It will idle fine at a decent temperature and I can drive maybe a quarter of a mile before it climbs. No matter how many times I bleed the cooling system it seems more and more air is in there. I cannot even take the crossover cap off without it blowing air and coolant out. I understand it is a pressurized system but the amount of air in there just doesnt seem possible. I have burned my hand multiple times. If I am not mistaken I should be able to remove the cap and watch fluid flow through after the car has reached proper temperature correct? What do I do. I have literally bled the car seven times and it is like it keeps taking in air. I had added 3 50/50 blend bottles to it and its like that doesnt even affect it. Also, I have noticed when my heat is on it is draining my volt gauge and its reading an 11-12. Mechanic time? Water pump? I need help bad. Feel free to ask for any questions.

Thanks.


I think this may be your problem. If you are talking about the crossover tube cap, you should not take it completely off. This probably puts just as much air back in.

I would unscrew the cap just enough to let the air come out (use a rag so you don't burn yourself because a little fluid will inevitably come out). Then tighten it back up, drive around the block, and repeat.

[maraudermetz]

Yes the front end is elevated. Also I have only removed the cap once a couple of times because I noticed it looks as if it is missing an o-ring which I believe it was supposed to have. I just am bothered by how much air is in there. Is it supposed to blow tons of steam and air out?

[RF Overlord]

If you remove it after the car has reached operating temp, yes.

The way I was told to do it, and it's worked every time, is to remove the crossover cap, fill with coolant through the bung until it won't take any more, then start the car. If the level drops, add more until it's full again, then install the cap loosely and leave it that way as the motor warms up until it stops fizzing and spitting, then tighten the cap. Do not add coolant to the reservoir, just make sure it's above the min level before you start.

Others have had luck with putting a plastic funnel in the bung and keeping the level just above the opening (of the bung, not the top of the funnel).

[Pat]

Another nasty possibility is that you may have a blown head gasket there is a pressure tester that should be able to help isolate this or rule it out.

Also check the dipstick to see that no water has mixed with the oil creating a brown sludge mixture on the dipstick itself.

[Blackened300a]

Make sure you check the fluid level with the car ice cold. With the nose elevated and the reservoir tank filled to the "cold full", open the crossover and fill up the tube. Start the car with the bleeder screw cracked loose and let it fizzle and get the air out. seal it and let it idle for a little while and intermittently crack open the bleeder to let the air out. Once it comes out without any bubbles, you are done.

If this don't solve your issues, I would suggest a full coolant flush in case you have a blockage, and are you sure your fan is working? I know you said its new but do you hear it come on full when it starts to run hot? Worst case scenario is that you over heated it and it popped a head gasket or something is warped.

[maraudermetz]

The fan is operating. Im going to attempt to bleed again tomorrow before work. I have also researched a head gasket/intake gasket problem and that scares me. I have found no water in the oil. I dont have $1000+ dollars to fix that right away as well. Where can I have a pressure test done and about how much. I have called a dealership about a radiator flush and its about $150. Also, I added three gallons of 50/50 yesterday to the resevoir and right now its dead cold and only showing about an inch in there. Reason behind this?

[CBT]

The fan is operating. Im going to attempt to bleed again tomorrow before work. I have also researched a head gasket/intake gasket problem and that scares me. I have found no water in the oil. I dont have $1000+ dollars to fix that right away as well. Where can I have a pressure test done and about how much. I have called a dealership about a radiator flush and its about $150. Also, I added three gallons of 50/50 yesterday to the resevoir and right now its dead cold and only showing about an inch in there. Reason behind this?
WTF? Sounds like you have a hole in your radiator. I had this happen on my Corvette. The hole was actually a small, fine crack where the filler neck met the radiator. It was cooking off the coolant, the only way I found it was it eventually started turning the neck green, that's what caught my eye.

[maraudermetz]

See im so confused. A ford technician I spoke to knew absolutely nothing about the car or system, so I called another. She suggested bringing it in for a coolant flush, which is probably what im going to do first. I dont tons of money laying around to fix every problem. If its a head gasket, I have no idea what I am going to do. I still do not believe its that, no oil in the coolant, no coolant in the oil and she is not smoking. I am really beginning to dislike fords. I hate this.

[maraudermetz]

Also CBT, I left it parked in a garage all night long and noticed no leakages on the ground. Anyone wanna trade marauders. Real fixer upper right here!

[ctrlraven]

If you had to add that much something is def wrong. Always add via crossover tube, top off via reservoir tank.

You can do the compression test yourself, just buy the tool with the long spark plug hole adapter, pull your plugs out and note which whole they came out of, thread in the compression tester, pull your fuel pump and IGN relays. It works easier if you have two people, one to crank and one to watch the compression gauge. Crank the car over 5 or 6 rotations (use the same amount on each cylinder) and then write down whatever the gauges reads and move on to the next cylinder and repeat each step. They have two types of test DRY and WET. DRY is what I explained above. WET would be doing the same test but adding 10cc of oil via small hand pump or some sort of long needle through the spark plug hole around the top of the piston. Do the test again on each cylinder after the oil has been to that cylinder and crank and write down the numbers. WET test should always read higher as the oil helps seal the rings up.
^FYI this is different than having your coolant system pressure test. Also a leak-down test could be done, it will pressurize the combustion chamber. If your intake valves are bad in X cylinder, air can be heard from the intake manifold, exhaust valves - exhaust pipes, piston rings - oil dip stick neck and head gasket - will put bubbles into the coolant or remove the crossover tube cap and listen for air.

[maraudermetz]

Yes I topped off at reservoir and added the rest to the crossover. Where would it be losing this much fluid. I'm not seeing it on the ground anywhere.

[maraudermetz]

Anyone have an idea how much it is to have the head gaskets replaced.

[fastblackmerc]

See im so confused. A ford technician I spoke to knew absolutely nothing about the car or system, so I called another. She suggested bringing it in for a coolant flush, which is probably what im going to do first. I dont tons of money laying around to fix every problem. If its a head gasket, I have no idea what I am going to do. I still do not believe its that, no oil in the coolant, no coolant in the oil and she is not smoking. I am really beginning to dislike fords. I hate this.

I'd get the system pressure checked.

[Blackened300a]

Any discoloring of the water pump around the weep hole on top? Also you can pick up a test that can locate exhaust fumes in the coolant. I would try that before going crazy with spending money for head gaskets. Also try to get a whiff of your exhaust and see if you get a scent of antifreeze.
Do you smell antifreeze under the hood at any time? If its constantly low and airated then it's not looking good.

[ctrlraven]

How many miles are on your car?

[babbage]

It sounds like you are doing it wrong! Follow these directions first, then I'd do a pressure test. Then I'd replace the water pump with an EMP Stuart unit.

FORD 4.6L DOHC REFILL/BURP PROCEDURE
Back To Homepage (http://reischeperformance.com/index.html#anchor)
This procedure is based on a collaboration of information from the forums, the Ford TSB and personal experience. I’ve only included what I feel is relevant in order to refill the system properly as quickly as possible. The general concept here is that air will accumulate at the highest point in the system which is the crossover tube.
http://reischeperformance.com/Images/cap.jpg
1) Car must be parked level or on a slight incline with the front higher is even better.
2) Remove the radiator reservoir cap and crossover plug.
http://reischeperformance.com/Images/plug.jpg

(The crossover plug is normally removed with a ¼” socket drive but is frequently found to be seized. You can damage your ratchet if you apply too much force to remove it. It may be necessary to use a pair of vice grips around the edge of the plug and, in extreme cases, heat it with a torch. I recommend the use of anti-seize or grease on the crossover plug threads upon reinstallation. It is never necessary to tighten the crossover plug much, just snug it, there is an O-ring to seal the system.)


3) Fill the reservoir just past the full line. It is best to add antifreeze (3/4 gal is about 20% concentration) or any additives at this time. Cap the reservoir and you should not need to open the reservoir again. In fact ALWAYS CHECK AND FILL THE SYSTEM AT THE CROSSOVER PLUG after verifying the reservoir is full. (Warning: Do not rely on the reservoir bottle to degas the system or indicate coolant level. The reservoir may show normal level even when there is a large amount of air in the system. There have been those who have lost engines due to not adding coolant at the crossover plug.)
4) Get a funnel and wrap some tape around the tip in order to make a seal with the crossover tube opening. Screw the funnel down into the crossover threads until the funnel seats in firmly.
5) With the reservoir capped, continue adding coolant at the funnel until the funnel fills up an inch or two. Squeeze the upper radiator hose a few times to force air pockets out of the piping.

http://reischeperformance.com/Images/funnel.jpg
6) Start the engine and let it idle but occasionally rev the engine a bit to dislodge any trapped air. Add coolant to keep the funnel full if necessary. You will notice many large air pockets escaping at first but eventually the level will rise in the funnel as temperature goes up expanding the coolant. Keep the engine running just until the thermostat starts to open a bit. (About 172° with my thermostat and as much as 184-192° with other units) When this happens the upper radiator inlet will be warm to the touch. (It is normal for tiny air bubbles to still be escaping out of the funnel- this happens because the system is open and unpressurized.)
7) Shut off the engine but be ready to add coolant because the level in the funnel will drop as soon as you do so. Quickly unscrew and remove the funnel, top off the coolant and reinstall the crossover plug only snug. (This is done to keep coolant from being expelled because stagnant coolant in the engine becomes heated and starts expanding again) A common mistake is to run the engine too long which creates excessive heat and, instead of dropping, the coolant level rises in the funnel when the engine is shut off. If this happens just reinstall the plug quickly to minimize coolant loss.
8) After 40 min to an hour the engine will still be warm. Slowly remove the crossover plug but use caution because there may still be a little pressure in the system. Top off the coolant again but this time do not reinstall the plug.
9) After 3 to 5 more hours the engine will be completely cooled down and you will need to top off the crossover once more. Reinstall the crossover plug then verify that the reservoir is full. DO NOT OPEN THE RESERVOIR CAP WITH THE CROSSOVER PLUG REMOVED.
10) You may drive the vehicle normally. Make sure the engine reaches full operating temperature. Best to do some highway cruising and/or the engine should see some mid-rpm speeds at minimum.
11) Later or the next day when the vehicle is completely cold again: Do not start the car and do not open the reservoir. Just top off the coolant at the crossover again. If you have to add more than an ounce or two of coolant then repeat this step again after another heat cycle. (For those who want to get every bit of air out you can repeat this step a few times until you can add only a capful of coolant.)

[Chevyguy]

Ha you beat me to it.. The funnel method works perfectly I had much less air then even they describe.

http://reischeperformance.com/refill.html

[Richy04]

Wanna fix this easy, forget all of the burping crap, get the nose of the car pointed at Jupiter, fill the crossover and the overflow, ran it with the heat on and call it a day. Mine had the exact same problem until I got the nose of the car higher than ramps or a jack could possibly take it.

I placed 2x6 boards under the ramps on an incline and the system fartid and I was back in business. I use Honda Blue coolant in all of my vehicles, its the best stuff out there bar none. But its 20 bucks a gallon and I blew 40 bucks of that crap all over NJ until I pointed my Grill towards the North Star.

When they fill these cars at the factory, they use a 3000 gallon tank suspended above and gravity force feed the coolant into these cars or they use high pressure and volume to do it, leaving not even a thimble of air anywhere in the system.

Trust me, get the nose of that thing as high as you can and it will go away..

[jvillerauder]

I'm having the same problem except I'm not losing any coolant but it does overheat while I'm driving in the city. Idle cools it down and driving on the interstate as well but get into the city and the temp goes up. Hasn't overheated completely yet I've been able to keep that from happening. The fan works as well as no coolant on the dipstick.

[omarauder]

It's not a good idea to open the crossover tube when the engine is hot...your gonna get Ol' Faithfull and possibly burned. Do it when the engine is cool and leave it open while it warms up for the above methods.
Have you checked to see if you have a plugged radiator, or leaves and debris in the gap between the rad and the air conditioner heat exchanger?

[jvillerauder]

It seems my car is now fixed now. (Knock on wood). All I did was put a little under a gallon of purified water and coolant (50/50) and burped the system with the car on a steep hill(45 degrees or more). I would've never thought air in the system made such a big difference.

[RF Overlord]

Well, you had to add a gallon of coolant to a system that only holds 3.6 gallons. You had like 30% air...

[Joey3571]

I have a similar issue. I was overheating when at idle. No hot air. Replaced thermostat. Burped the system very good. Took it for a spin and now it starts overheat when I get into the gas with the heat off. I turn the heat back on and the temp comes down. The radiator fan is working. Any ideas? Sorry to jump on your thread here, but it was a similar issue. If I cannot get it to stop, I may need to get the new SHO.

[Shaijack]

Darn I was going to buy it from you....

[fastblackmerc]

I have a similar issue. I was overheating when at idle. No hot air. Replaced thermostat. Burped the system very good. Took it for a spin and now it starts overheat when I get into the gas with the heat off. I turn the heat back on and the temp comes down. The radiator fan is working. Any ideas? Sorry to jump on your thread here, but it was a similar issue. If I cannot get it to stop, I may need to get the new SHO.

Sounds like you still have air in the system.

You also need to have the heat on when burping the system.

[Joey3571]

The problem is, I have burped this system many times and all times when I had air in it, there would be no hot air when it started to overheat. This time was different. All is good, I went ahead and traded her in. Great car and I hope to own one again someday.

[STRAN]

I had simiular issues when my tranny went south. The car started overheating so I replaced the pump and thermostat. The pump was fine when I pulled it but I wanted to rule it out. The car keep overheating no matter how carefully I burped it, so I decided the bad tranny was the culptret (read that somewhere). after I replaced the transmission I burped it but the overheating persisted, that is until I put in the old thermostat and burped again. The stat from the FLAPS was slightly different so I assume it is the wrong one or bad from the start. CHECK YOUR THERMOSTAT.