Half throttle ping. [Archive] - MercuryMarauder.net Forums

Blackened300a

11-20-2011, 07:56 PM

Today after running at the track, I needed to put some gas in the Marauder so I stopped at a Sunoco and put $40 of 93 octane in the tank. I left the station and I noticed a slight ping off the line at part throttle, then I noticed it at 1/2 throttle while cruising. I drove home with minimum throttle to prevent any damage or further noise.

Do you guys think I just payed $40 for low octane gas or is there something else to look at? :mad:
It never pinged and I made 3 runs without any noise or pinging until I hit the gas station. Anyone have something similar? Im ready to drain the tank and report the station.

slickster

11-20-2011, 07:59 PM

Bad gas. Try to ad some octane booster to see if the noise gets lower if so drain that crap out. Doyou have a 93 tune

RacerX

11-20-2011, 08:00 PM

Can you pull 4 degrees global timing with your sct and burn that tank off or enough to mix in some higher octane (even 100 unleaded)?

Blackened300a

11-20-2011, 08:00 PM

Bad gas. Try to ad some octane booster to see if the noise gets lower if so drain that crap out. Doyou have a 93 tune

Yeah 93 only tune. I never ran a lower octane since I owned the car.

Blackened300a

11-21-2011, 05:39 AM

Can you pull 4 degrees global timing with your sct and burn that tank off or enough to mix in some higher octane (even 100 unleaded)?

Yeah I can pull global timing and will likely do that. Also can I put a syphin pump in the tank to pull this out or is there a screen or something that would prevent the tube from going into the tank?

burt ragio

11-21-2011, 05:54 AM

Blackened300a

11-21-2011, 05:57 AM

Is it true that the oil companies have a winter & summer blend of different grade gas ? The other consideration is they put the wrong gas in the wrong holding tank.
I have the X Cal SCT II can someone walk me through on how to reduce global timing ?
You can do it if it's unlocked in your tuner. It would come up in your options to change your tune. I'm not sure on the xcal2 but it has that feature on the xcal3. I plan on doing it tonight. I wish I remembered to do that when I drove home.

Most of the stations were pretty busy but this Sunoco was empty. I should have picked up on it. Plus it looked like a older station with older pumps. I didn't want to use a no name brand station so I figured Sunoco was the way to go. I guess not!!!!

wickedmerc

11-21-2011, 06:18 AM

Do you guys think I just payed $40 for low octane gas or is there something else to look at? :mad:
It never pinged and I made 3 runs without any noise or pinging until I hit the gas station. Anyone have something similar? Im ready to drain the tank and report the station.

I know gas prices are better in NJ but for your $40, do you feel you got much more for your $$? Reg Unleaded is running about 20cents cheaper per gal than 93 these days.

Not too long ago I showed-up at a Sunoco (not the same 1 you likely went to on Rt9 North) with my Dolphins jersey on. The Jets-jersey-wearing attendant proceded to fill my MM with 87. I know that because about 3 minutes later I heard the rattling. I've heard it's not recommended but I went the octane boost route and it helped. I filled with 93 when I got to about 1/2 tank then ran that all the way down, no further issues. I've now learned to check the pump as soon as they start the fill.

Welcome to the down-side to having your cheaper gas pumped for you....by law. F-ers!! That does suck.

Blackened300a

11-21-2011, 06:29 AM

I know gas prices are better in NJ but for your $40, do you feel you got much more for your $$? Reg Unleaded is running about 20cents cheaper per gal than 93 these days.

Not too long ago I showed-up at a Sunoco (not the same 1 you likely went to on Rt9 North) with my Dolphins jersey on. The Jets-jersey-wearing attendant proceded to fill my MM with 87. I know that because about 3 minutes later I heard the rattling. I've heard it's not recommended but I went the octane boost route and it helped. I filled with 93 when I got to about 1/2 tank then ran that all the way down, no further issues. I've now learned to check the pump as soon as they start the fill.

Welcome to the down-side to having your cheaper gas pumped for you....by law. F-ers!! That does suck.
I jumped out of the car as soon as I pulled up because I don't trust these savages to pull the gas bib out without ripping it or tightening my gas cap. He selected 93 i made sure but the gas is obviously 89 or even regular. :mad2:

wickedmerc

11-21-2011, 06:54 AM

I jumped out of the car as soon as I pulled up because I don't trust these savages to pull the gas bib out without ripping it or tightening my gas cap. He selected 93 i made sure but the gas is obviously 89 or even regular. :mad2:

WOW, that's alarming! I've been to that Sunoco many times without issue. Looks like I'll wait a few months before trying that 1 again.

Sorry to hear you got screwed.

Blackened300a

11-24-2011, 08:04 AM

OK now how is this possible?

I added STP octane booster to a half tank a gas like it says on the bottle because of the tank of bad gas I picked up. I let the car idle for 30 minutes to let it mix in and today I took it for a drive all over the place to let it work in. Now here's the strange part, I burnt a 1/4 tank of gas just going no more then 1/4 throttle, then gave it half throttle and lugged it down to test it out and I don't hear any pinging like it was doing before, I parked the car and I no longer hear the head tick nearly as loud or as pronounced as before. Pretty much quieted the entire drivers side of then engine.
Now did something free up? Or did the octane booster clean something out? :confused:

martyo

11-24-2011, 08:20 AM

Can you pull 4 degrees global timing with your sct and burn that tank off or enough to mix in some higher octane (even 100 unleaded)?

Do this. Do not use octane boster.

Run the gas low in the tank without beating on the car and fill up with good, fresh gas.

And whatever you do, don't use kerosene! :rolleyes:

Blackened300a

11-24-2011, 11:11 AM

Do this. Do not use octane boster.

Run the gas low in the tank without beating on the car and fill up with good, fresh gas.

And whatever you do, don't use kerosene! :rolleyes:

I put the booster in the tank already and I been granny driving the car to burn off the crap that's stuck in the tank. I used a small bottle just to burn this off, I don't plan using it again.

You have me mistaken about the kerosene. ;)

martyo

11-24-2011, 04:56 PM

You have me mistaken about the kerosene. ;)

Just a flash back to old times!

ImpalaSlayer

11-24-2011, 06:32 PM

Paul, you can siphon the gas out, theres nothing blocking the tube

Blackened300a

11-24-2011, 06:37 PM

Paul, you can siphon the gas out, theres nothing blocking the tube

Thanks for the tip, Ill pick up a siphon pump tomorrow. I thought that it wouldn't be able to reach into the tank far enough or there was a check ball.

ImpalaSlayer

11-24-2011, 06:43 PM

Thanks for the tip, Ill pick up a siphon pump tomorrow. I thought that it wouldn't be able to reach into the tank far enough or there was a check ball.

nope, i siphoned the gas from Rex's tank and then put the car on blocks :D

Blackened300a

11-24-2011, 06:56 PM

nope, i siphoned the gas from Rex's tank and then put the car on blocks :D

Im just curious why the head tick on the drivers side is quiet now with the octane boost. That has me concerned that I may be running the last 2 cylinders lean and thats the noise or did the boost clean something out in the rails? I also replaced the 7 & 8 injectors when we were looking for the noise last week.

ctrlraven

11-25-2011, 09:06 AM

Wait to see after you get the bad gas out and refuel with 93.

Blackened300a

11-28-2011, 04:38 PM

OK now I need to figure this out before there is another Marauder up for sale or burnt! :mad:

I ran it well below the "E" on the gauge then filled up at my usual gas station with $50 of Shell 93. I use this gas all the time and I never had a single issue.
I drove about 20 miles to run it through the system and when I tested it at 1/2 throttle, I still have a ping. I pulled over and pulled 4* of global timing out and it STILL PINGS. I contacted my tuner to have them send me another tune after telling them that it pings off idle and part throttle, but I can't understand how it would still ping with fresh gas and 4* of timing pulled out of it when it didn't ping before.
Would it be possible that my fuel pump isn't putting out enough volume/pressure and its leaning me out? I changed the fuel filter less then 500 miles ago and its just happening all of a sudden. I'm also wondering since I ran it real low racing at the track, did I pull something off the bottom and clog the filter?

Need some help on this one.

RacerX

11-28-2011, 04:56 PM

knine

11-28-2011, 05:06 PM

Just a flash back to old times!
Nightmares are not flashbacks. :rolleyes:

Blackened300a

11-28-2011, 05:07 PM

Can you record the noise? Does it seem to have any relationship to weather or particular gas stations? Clean the MAF sensor with maf cleaner? Pull 6 or 8 deg and see if it goes away out of curiosity. Could be getting crap gas. Can you datalog at all? I wonder what your afr is.

I can data log it but I have no clue what Im looking at. I don't have a wide band installed either.
Its pinging noise, rattle can at half throttle. I ran it at the track with no issues, put $40 of Sunoco gas and it pinged as soon as I left the station. I put octane booster in it and it knocked it down a bit but not completely. Tonight I put gas in with the gauge below E and drove it 20 miles only to have it still ping. I pulled 4 degrees out and it pings. Im just wondering if I had a tank of 89 octane from last week and still have a few gallons in the tank with the 93 I just put in, is my octane still under 93? Do I have to run some more boost and check it?

justbob

11-28-2011, 05:11 PM

When my fuel pump went out I was battling a couple of bad COPs at the same time so it was aggravating to diagnose.. Anyways, my car just didn't have any power over half throttle, it would just shiver and shake, never once pinging. Turned out the fuel pump was near 100%.......AT IDLE! Not sure how it never once pinged, maybe the relocated Trilogy knock sensors do infact work?

I would still datalog FPDC for giggles, any chance you could have a vacuum leak at one of the injectors that you replaced? Them Orings can be very finicky.

This post is rated E for everyone.

RacerX

11-28-2011, 05:12 PM

If you can datalog, there's a few of us here that can look at it and or post it up. If the octane booster helped before, you may as well put it in as well as leave the timing pulled. If it was my car, I'd pull 8 degrees (it won't hurt the car and doesn't drop hp that much) and see if it stops it.

I would still datalog FPDC for giggles, any chance you could have a vacuum leak at one of the injectors that you replaced? Them Orings can be very finicky.
You can definitely hear a leaking injector o-ring if you put your head under the hood too!

justbob

11-28-2011, 05:27 PM

If you can datalog, there's a few of us here that can look at it and or post it up. If the octane booster helped before, you may as well put it in as well as leave the timing pulled. If it was my car, I'd pull 8 degrees (it won't hurt the car and doesn't drop hp that much) and see if it stops it.

You can definitely hear a leaking injector o-ring if you put your head under the hood too!

I'm tryin to learn the fun of tuning! Always here to help if I can.

As for the injector leaking, all four leaked on my escort and couldn't hear anything? A shot of propane and REVVVV! It was an obvious one on my MM when I crammed them back down around the BPV and caused a leaker. That is one tight area...

This post is rated E for everyone.

Blackened300a

11-28-2011, 05:43 PM

I can't understand how it could run great until I put gas in it and now it's pinging. I ran it low at the track so I'm wondering if something is sucked in the filter or is there a fuel pump issue. The O ring issue would have shown up after 3 runs at the track.
To data log I run the xcal3 the. Transfer it to my computer through the sct software?

RacerX

11-28-2011, 05:47 PM

Do you have a laptop? SCT to USB to laptop, livelink up and running... You don't have a wideband do you? Sa'right, can get info from STFTs.

SpartaPerformance

11-28-2011, 06:21 PM

Maybe the octane boost cleaned something out and the tick was your injectors pulsing harder to compensate. :dunno:

Blackened300a

11-28-2011, 06:40 PM

Do you have a laptop? SCT to USB to laptop, livelink up and running... You don't have a wideband do you? Sa'right, can get info from STFTs.

What should I be looking for in the fuel trims? I can watch while I drive if I know what to look for.

1stMerc

11-28-2011, 07:55 PM

slickster

11-28-2011, 08:10 PM

I got a 07 chevy burbon 5.3 I use 87 and I get that metallic sound under load it's been like that for 5 months now. I'm gonna wait till it gets low then ad some 93 if the tick stops then u should not have a big problem. Yes I'm trading it for something better then 15mpg

Blackened300a

11-28-2011, 08:10 PM

What do the plugs look like? Maybe you knocked some carbon loose.

I had the ping after putting some Conoco in the tank one summer, started soon as i drove off the lot and up a slight incline and goosing it from a dead stop.. Backing the timimg down 4* degrees with the xcal2 took care of it till it got low enough to put some BP in.
My plugs are clean. We pulled them when they were looking under the cover for the head tick. I just pulled the 4* tonight and put in fresh gas and. It's still pinging.

RacerX

11-28-2011, 08:14 PM

What should I be looking for in the fuel trims? I can watch while I drive if I know what to look for.
If you keep less than half throttle and watch STFTs, you shouldn't see them go over 1.05 or under .95. Ideally anyway. If you see a lot more either way, your maf calibration is off. You really need a wideband to see what the actual afr is as well as commanded.

slickster

11-28-2011, 08:17 PM

That's strange man there's lots of thing that can cause pinging but all that goes out the window when it happens right after you leave the station. Unless it was a really bad kind of detonation that f upt something if that makes any sense

slickster

11-28-2011, 08:21 PM

1stMerc

11-28-2011, 08:50 PM

My plugs are clean. We pulled them when they were looking under the cover for the head tick. I just pulled the 4* tonight and put in fresh gas and. It's still pinging.

That's a weird one you got there. The fresh gas should have taken care of it, without having to adjust the timing.
Engines not running to hot is it?

Blackened300a

11-29-2011, 04:03 AM

If you keep less than half throttle and watch STFTs, you shouldn't see them go over 1.05 or under .95. Ideally anyway. If you see a lot more either way, your maf calibration is off. You really need a wideband to see what the actual afr is as well as commanded.

Ill check that tonight.

That's strange man there's lots of thing that can cause pinging but all that goes out the window when it happens right after you leave the station. Unless it was a really bad kind of detonation that f upt something if that makes any sense

Octane booster knocked it down a bit the first time so I'll add some more. I contacted my tuner to send me a update for this pinging. Hopefully that will cure it.

That's a weird one you got there. The fresh gas should have taken care of it, without having to adjust the timing.
Engines not running to hot is it?

Engine is running its normal temp that it always does. I'll burp it for fun but its never went above the 20mph mark.

babbage

11-29-2011, 09:51 AM

Im sure it's winter gas.

Blackened300a

11-29-2011, 10:05 AM

Im sure it's winter gas.

Heres my theories. The 300A fuel gauge isn't very accurate so when I filled up last night I actually had more gas then showed on the gauge and I mixed fresh 93 with whatever low octane crap that was left in my tank which means if I had 89 in there, I added 93 and Im running 91 octane. The winter blend isn't helping either!
Also my tuner never added fuel for my headers, instead he change the timer for the O2's to avoid a check engine light. I never had a check engine light after doing the headers because the O2's are pretty much in the same locations. My exhaust tips never turned black like they used to with any other tune I had so I'm pretty sure thats a lean condition. My engine had a vibration at idle due to it being lean, I had it retuned and the idle smoothed out with the added fuel, I put my stock intake back on and added long tube headers and it had a slight cam idle but nothing bad. I added this gas last week and its pinging and idling rough. I ran it al out, filled it with fresh 93 octane gas, and the idle improved but not perfect and its still pinging.
Now, I know my car was tuned to the edge with a short runner intake and stock manifolds, I swapped them both which put my tune out of whack combined with crap gas in the tank, diluted good gas with winter blend, my engine is running lean all around.

One thing for certain, I put gas in the car 3 times last week on the day I raced, once when I left NY I put $10 of Gulf 93 to get me to NJ, then I put another $10 of Shell 93 in to race with, then I put $40 of Sunoco "93" in to head home. It ran strong and quiet until I put that $40 in from Sunoco. Now its been a process getting this crap out to really see what the deal is.
My engine temps are normal, the EGR was replaced over the summer, the fuel filter was done also over the summer, and it ran great until last week.

Krytin

11-29-2011, 01:25 PM

Paul, have you tried bumping the fuel up through all of the rpm ranges?

Blackened300a

11-29-2011, 01:38 PM

Paul, have you tried bumping the fuel up through all of the rpm ranges?

My tuner only allows me to bump up the fuel at WOT. JDM is supposed to be sending me another tune with more fuel.

RacerX

11-29-2011, 06:58 PM

Keep us posted. Don't drive it if it's pinging though. If you have to drive it, pull 10 degrees globally for the time being, do it. Better to be safe. :(

Blackened300a

11-29-2011, 07:39 PM

Keep us posted. Don't drive it if it's pinging though. If you have to drive it, pull 10 degrees globally for the time being, do it. Better to be safe. :(

It sits in the garage til I get this figured out. I put octane boost in the tank but havent started it. I'll probably have to burn through this tank too to get some fresh untainted 93 octane in it to find out the deal.

FastMerc

11-29-2011, 08:26 PM

In the past I had that issue.I filled the tank then put 2 gallons of 100 oct race gas in that cleans it all out.If its winter gas its garbage.Boost it with race gas...

1stMerc

11-29-2011, 08:32 PM

How many tanks (if any) have you gone thru, since the pinging started happening. I can't imagine Sunoco gas being that hard to flush out, or over come.

Mine was back to normal after the week it took to burn the Conoco out.

But, taking into account you had the headers installed without adding more fuel, that could indeed be your problem, since it requires a bit richer mixture during the winter, especially till the car fully warms up. If you put the winter gas in, that may have exacerbated the issue.

Good luck,

Blackened300a

12-02-2011, 05:13 AM

Last night I took the car out with the fresh 93, 4 degrees of timing out and another bottle of octane boost. I drove I about 20 miles then tried it at half throttle. No ping at 1/2 throttle so I tried 3/4 then WOT and no ping. I plan on running this gas out, then refill with fresh 93 and I think I'm good to go. I should have my tune update by Monday.