Urgent GT40 pump question

[Taemian]

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure of what a single GT40 fuel pump should support? My car is at the Ford dealership dyno today, and the fuel pump starts losing pressure fairly bigtime at 5800rpm and above. The car is stuck at about 405rwhp, but that seems incredibly low for my mods. They are suggesting an Aerodyne pump, but I can't believe I need that for a stock Trilogy boosted set up, with some minor mods.

Forged internals
Trilogy w/stock pulley and Stage 1 Steigmeier job
JLT CAI
ProM Maf
Accufab TB
SW headers
GT40 pump (2 years old, less than 20K miles on it)
Larger fuel filter mod w/the crappy plastic bends removed

WTF am I missing? At this point, I have no clue. Do I just order another GT40 pump, or is there a way to flow test it or voltage test it??:confused:

Any/all advice is appreciated.

[LANDY]

It makes no sense that the GT pump is running out of steam at 405rwhp. Do you have a BAP?
My previous car needed it at 420rwhp but it was a centri blower, they demand more fuel at higher rpms.
There is got to be something else to it.

[jwibbity]

im a total noob to everything but did you upgrade the fuel injectors????

[LANDY]

im a total noob to everything but did you upgrade the fuel injectors????trilogy kits comes with upgraded injectors.
FYI GT pump and BAP should get you in the low 500rwhp with no issues

[Bradley G]

How about turning up the boost a pump settings

[martyo]

Do you have a Boost-a-Pump?

If so, which size (amperage-wise)?

Your pump may be taking a dump -- it happens.

Also check for trash in the inline filters.

[DOOM]

I'm making 500RWHP on a single GT pump!

[sailsmen]

At 540RWHP with 2 GT Pumps I added a Boost-A-Pump.

Could the car be tuned and driven with out the Boos-A-Pump? Yes, but Jerry W. and Aric C. while tuning her on the Dyno both said the margins were not good and I needed to add the Boost-A-Pump.

[Taemian]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I do have the BAP as part of the Trilogy kit, forgot to mention that, and it is turned up all the way. They said they checked it and it is sending out the proper signal.

The injectors are not maxing out their duty cycle, they are fine. It's pressure, not volume that has them concerned.

I guess I just have to throw in a new filter to be safe and get another GT40 pump then...but is there no mechanical way to test the pump? Seems like throwing money at a problem by not checking it.

[martyo]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I do have the BAP as part of the Trilogy kit, forgot to mention that, and it is turned up all the way. They said they checked it and it is sending out the proper signal.

The injectors are not maxing out their duty cycle, they are fine. It's pressure, not volume that has them concerned.

I guess I just have to throw in a new filter to be safe and get another GT40 pump then...but is there no mechanical way to test the pump? Seems like throwing money at a problem by not checking it.

Check the filter -- it is the least cost option.

By the way, those pumps do go bad. Today's ethaniol enriched gas eats the pumps up.

[Taemian]

Check the filter -- it is the least cost option.

By the way, those pumps do go bad. Today's ethaniol enriched gas eats the pumps up.

Good to know, but if you can't even get 2.5 years out of a fuel pump, that's pretty scary. Guess I'll get a new pump and filter.

Now I've got to find the GT40 pump thread somewhere...

[martyo]

Good to know, but if you can't even get 2.5 years out of a fuel pump, that's pretty scary. Guess I'll get a new pump and filter.

Now I've got to find the GT40 pump thread somewhere...

You can start with the filter just in case but that may slow you down.

Has teh car been prone to sitting without use?

[Taemian]

You can start with the filter just in case but that may slow you down.

Has teh car been prone to sitting without use?

Has been sitting since July with the blown motor, put on about 20 miles with the new motor in it. Went straight from install shop to dyno shop. Car sits from Mon-Fri, get used on the weekend primarily. I have a work truck I use during the week.

[martyo]

Has been sitting since July with the blown motor, put on about 20 miles with the new motor in it. Went straight from install shop to dyno shop. Car sits from Mon-Fri, get used on the weekend primarily. I have a work truck I use during the week.

With those facts, I would not be the least bit surprised if the pump is trashed.

I had a CV PI for sale and I let it sit for three months and the pump took a dump.

Please keep us posted on what you discover.

[sailsmen]

If your car sits I suggest looking into fuel stabilizers. Adding ethanol to gasoline makes it unstable at least thats what people who make it, store it and transit it but don't sell or make stabilizers are telling me, but what do they know?:confused:

[LANDY]

Invests on a BAP and you won't regret it

[martyo]

Invests on a BAP and you won't regret it

I think he said he had a BAP but that won't remedy a pump that is going down.

[LANDY]

Ohh, I missed that. Lol.
It still a little strange that the pump went out in two years. Lots of people park there cars for 6 months at the time every year and there pump don't go out.
But then again its an electrical item.

[martyo]

Ohh, I missed that. Lol.
It still a little strange that the pump went out in two years. Lots of people park there cars for 6 months at the time every year and there pump don't go out.
But then again its an electrical item.

At the shop we find more and more folks losing fuel pumps and we can only attribute it to the fuel eating up the pumps.

[BODYMAN]

Iam with Martyo on this sounds like it maybe taking a dump. One thing I found interesting though when on dyno at Mr Norms Tim Barth made a mention how these pumps were not all the same (GT pumps) some hade more output then others? Like some were stronger then others I found that interesting. As for my own car it wanted to get close to topping out at 555ish HP on fuel with twin GT's and a BAP. I beleive that to be more of a case of the restriction from stock outlet from fuel hat.

[Taemian]

Picked up the paperwork from the shop, and the pump was maxing out it's duty cycle and quickly losing pressure (from 40psi to 20psi) at 3500rpm and over. The BAP was set at 30.

With the BAP at 50 (max setting) the pump did the same thing starting at 4500rpm, and down to 22psi at 5800rpm.
Logically, this doesn't make sense to me. If it was maxing out at 3500rpm, why would more voltage make it max out at 4500rpm? Shouldn't it max out at a certain level, period, if it was faulty? Could it really be the alternate wiring that Joe Boomz and others have mentioned would clear it up?

Anyone have a link for the single or dual GT40 pump set up? Guess I should order one. I'm looking at the dual setup since I now have forged internals and a 3.2 upper pulley on my desk at home.

Any/all links to fuel pump prices/vendors/install threads are much appreciated. Thank you!

[LANDY]

The FP ran out of steam at a higher rpm when the tech added voltage to it because it had a higher load meaning it was sucking more air I need of more fuel.
You can find these pumps all over the place. I bought mine from rockauto. guaranteed oem.

[Taemian]

The FP ran out of steam at a higher rpm when the tech added voltage to it because it had a higher load meaning it was sucking more air I need of more fuel.
You can find these pumps all over the place. I bought mine from rockauto. guaranteed oem.

Gotcha, I'll check them out.

EDIT: Hmmm, part number? No listing for a GT40.

EDIT 2: Guess it was just called the GT, not the GT40? There is a listing for that. But who sells a drop in dual set up for our cars?

[LANDY]

her you go.
motorcrft p/n:PFB81 (4G7Z9A407CA)
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=872618

[napolitano]

At the shop we find more and more folks losing fuel pumps and we can only attribute it to the fuel eating up the pumps.

Damn ethanol eats that **** up.

[LANDY]

Gotcha, I'll check them out.

EDIT: Hmmm, part number? No listing for a GT40.

EDIT 2: Guess it was just called the GT, not the GT40? There is a listing for that. But who sells a drop in dual set up for our cars? no one sells a drop in dual for our cars, your tech is gonna have to make them fit. It's not hard tho.

[Billy]

no one sells a drop in dual for our cars, your tech is gonna have to make them fit. It's not hard tho.

"He who shall not be named" is working on a drop in dual pump setup. He posted about it on the "other" panther site.
http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2413623#Post2413623

[LANDY]

"He who shall not be named" is working on a drop in dual pump setup. He posted about it on the "other" panther site.
http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2413623#Post2413623 Haha years too late, so now he is doing dual pumps? After telling every customer he installed one.

[BODYMAN]

Mounting the twin pumps is not the problem anyhow. As far as Iam concerned the #1 problem with dual pumps is unless vu plumb for ur still stuck with 1 outlet from the hat. U could have any amount of pumps but if ya cant get it out of the tank it means nothing.

[martyo]

Mounting the twin pumps is not the problem anyhow. As far as Iam concerned the #1 problem with dual pumps is unless vu plumb for ur still stuck with 1 outlet from the hat. U could have any amount of pumps but if ya cant get it out of the tank it means nothing.

Yep.


..............

[BODYMAN]

Yep.


..............

On this note what are U doing for fuel? U full returnstyle? Iam guessing

[martyo]

On this note what are U doing for fuel? U full returnstyle? Iam guessing

I assume you mean in my race Marauder. If so, yes.

In the newly acquired Trilogy car it has a BAP and a single GT40 pump. It was not tuned by our shop so I just want to check/datalog everything over before I comment on how it all is.

[BODYMAN]

I assume you mean in my race Marauder. If so, yes.

In the newly acquired Trilogy car it has a BAP and a single GT40 pump. It was not tuned by our shop so I just want to check/datalog everything over before I comment on how it all is.

Yeah was talking ur Race car! Figured as much cant see anything over 750-800 still remaining returnless. Was suprised Brian (Fordnut) got what he did still being returnless. Zack made men tion to me about a new walbro pump that supposed to be good for 455lph that suprised the heck out of me, alot being pumped thru that.. I did see on website they list a 405lph thats probably the one he meant Made by TI

[martyo]

Yeah was talking ur Race car! Figured as much cant see anything over 750-800 still remaining returnless. Was suprised Brian (Fordnut) got what he did still being returnless. Zack made men tion to me about a new walbro pump that supposed to be good for 455lph that suprised the heck out of me, alot being pumped thru that.. I did see on website they list a 405lph thats probably the one he meant Made by TI

We have had good results out of the Walbro pumps.

I use a Magnafuel now. If you are building a race application, I can make you a smoking deal on a freshly rebuilt (by Magnafuel) pump.

[LANDY]

I'm sure my setup would handle over 600rwhp if I turned the boost up. I'm only at 63% duty cycle at 521 rhwp.

[martyo]

I'm sure my setup would handle over 600rwhp if I turned the boost up. I'm only at 63% duty cycle at 521 rhwp.

That's plenty comfortable.

[BODYMAN]

It's coming once I get the wife convinced I need a Turbo LOL! Of course I found out my 5yr old spilled the beans to mommy When he proceeded to tell her last night oh daddy will dust that challenger especially once he changes to a turbocharger. Kids They speak whats on there minds!! I just need to train him better not to tell everything lol. Seriously though when I change to full return I will probably use the walbro mainly cause I have also had very good luck with them in other hotrods. It's a good thing though you're not closer. Same thing I tell my gun dealer cause everytime I go in his shop I leave alot poorer..

[martyo]

It's coming once I get the wife convinced I need a Turbo LOL! Of course I found out my 5yr old spilled the beans to mommy When he proceeded to tell her last night oh daddy will dust that challenger especially once he changes to a turbocharger. Kids They speak whats on there minds!! I just need to train him better not to tell everything lol. Seriously though when I change to full return I will probably use the walbro mainly cause I have also had very good luck with them in other hotrods. It's a good thing though you're not closer. Same thing I tell my gun dealer cause everytime I go in his shop I leave alot poorer..

What ever you do, don't tell him what size shot you are spraying on the car!!!

:P

[BODYMAN]

What ever you do, don't tell him what size shot you are spraying on the car!!!

:P

LOL I d say I learen my lesson now I gave him TMI for now on I wil watch what I tell him:D

[ginson3]

I was running the magnafuel pump but it was so danged loud I swapped out for twin walbro 255's. Still got the magnafuel if anyone is interested, I only ran it a few months

[RacerX]

The Aeromotive 340lph # 11142 works in returnless on modulated systems contrary to what others said when it came out. ;) My GT40 FP is being swapped out for this one.

[sailsmen]

Does anyone have access to a source for the Ford OEM style elec connectors to the pump?

[RacerX]

Soldering them is an option and you can always unsolder if you change out pumps, etc. I soldered my GT40 in. No better connection! :beer:

[clintons4]

This just showed up in the mail yesterday for my eaton swap. At $150 bucks seemed priced right too. :) anyone else running this pump?

http://www.lethalperformance.com/2011-2012-shelby-gt500-fuel-delivery-fuel-pumps-divisionx-c-8485_8913_8946_11841/divisionx-stryker-340lph-fuel-pump-p-37313

DivisionX Stryker 340lph Fuel Pump

The DivisionX Stryker fuel pump is one of the most versatile pumps available on the market today. With flow rates of 340lph@40psi (13.5V) and the ability to be run in regular gasoline as well as with E85, it makes it the perfect option for those looking to provide more fuel and safely support more power.

The Stryker pump was designed with the same dimensions and offset inlet as the Walbro GSS342 fuel pump so it acts as a direct replacement wherever the GSS342 was used. So whether it will be in a modified stock fuel assembly, DivisionX or Fore Precision Works GSS342 fuel hats the pump fits just like the Walbro GSS342. The Strkyer pump is a turbine style pump similar to the Aeromotive Stealth pump so it can be run in return style configurations as well as in pulse modulated applications/returnless style systems.
Each pump comes with a 1 year manufacturer warranty.
Pump Includes:
Fuel Pump (Offset Inlet-Inline)

(2) High Pressure Hose Clamps
Wiring Pigtail
Submersible Fuel Hose
Fuel Pump Pre-Filter

Flow Data Summary
Calibrated for Gasoline.
13.5V
345LPH at 40psi
335LPH at 43.5psi
310LPH at 50psi
275LPH at 60psi
260lph at 70psi
230lph at 80psi
205lph at 90psi

[RacerX]

The Aeromotive 340lph # 11142 works in returnless on modulated systems contrary to what others said when it came out. ;) My GT40 FP is being swapped out for this one.
Post #41 ^
Some people are having probs with the DivX and returnless systems. The Aeromotive has great reviews. Our MMs are actually on their application list: http://aeromotiveinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Aeromotive340_app_guide_3-4-11.pdf

[bugsyc]

BUY IT...I just bought a GT or I would take one