Transmission last 8 Days after Eaton Swap

[03sport007]

So I’m driving home for work very gingerly as I always do until it gets up to normal operating temp. On the first 2nd to 3rd shift I notice something not right. Instead of a nice clean drop in RPM its more of a gradual slide. On the next 2nd to 3rd shift I get a nice clean RPM drop but then it quickly climbs back up. Almost like the torque converter is locking then unlocking. The rest of the drive home is normal.

An hour later I take my son to basketball practice and part of this journey takes me on the highway. As I reach 55mph I turn the OD back on (Normally drive with it off) and the RPMs drop as normal but quickly climbs back up but slowly settles back to normal. Anytime I try and accelerate the RPMs just climb. Now OD is completely useless and third isn’t much better. Not Good.

8 days ago I got my car back from the tuners after completing my Eaton Swap. I beat on it pretty hard the first night (keeping the OD off the whole time) but other then that its been normal driving hardly seeing boost. Car hasn’t shifted right since the tune. But I attributed that to the crapy shift schedule.

The car has 64k and I did the j-mod at about 58k. The transmission has always worked just like it should. Guess my number was up.

[RF Overlord]

Car hasn’t shifted right since the tune. But I attributed that to the crapy shift schedule.So it shifted fine before the tune? Sounds like your tuner screwed up and now you have a bad transmission.

[adtaylor]

I know how you feel, my tranny went out in late October. Lido called me last week and said she's ready for pickup stronger and better than ever. Planning to pick her up 1st thing in the morning as long as the weather permits :banana2:.

[Siege]

When was the fluid and filter last changed?

[03sport007]

So it shifted fine before the tune? Sounds like your tuner screwed up and now you have a bad transmission.



I had some of the same thoughts. Unfortantly difficult to prove.

[03sport007]

When was the fluid and filter last changed?

About 6k ago, when I did the j-mod. Still had the lollipop so it was the first time.

[03sport007]

I know how you feel, my tranny went out in late October. Lido called me last week and said she's ready for pickup stronger and better than ever. Planning to pick her up 1st thing in the morning as long as the weather permits :banana2:.

Whish I lived closer I'd have him look at my tune also.

[sailsmen]

Am I reading it correctly that the car shifted well enough after the tune to enable you to "beat on it pretty hard"?

IF so it's probably not the tune or the tuner. It is probably the driver who "beat on it pretty hard".

[03sport007]

Am I reading it correctly that the car shifted well enough after the tune to enable you to "beat on it pretty hard"?

IF so it's probably not the tune or the tuner. It is probably the driver who "beat on it pretty hard".

I'm guessing both had something to do with it.

[RacerX]

How many miles on her? Could be the friction plates were at the end of their life anyway.

[LANDY]

I disagree on the beat on it pretty hard. As long as the tranny has been serviced correctly and with the jmod it shouldnt have a problem. My tranny has seen 60k miles of abuse and it has over 35 passes at 521 rwhp plus a 125 shot and it just won't give up. I give Thanks to Barry for following up with the services.

[DOOM]

Might be in the tune. Your parameters may be off a little. I have had this same problem after a "retune"

Who did the tune on your car after the swap?

[sailsmen]

Defyant had several issues with his trans and so did MI2QK. It looks like the pan wasn't dropped until 58K miles.

[03sport007]

Might be in the tune. Your parameters may be off a little. I have had this same problem after a "retune"

Who did the tune on your car after the swap?

A local shop......it was not a good experience. I knew I was in trouble when he said the 4th to 2nd down shift was not a problem. He said he kept the line pressure stock but turned up the speed at which the transmission shifted. He also changed downshift schedule but appeared to keep the up shift schedule the same. It would be in OD with the TC locked at 30mph which of course sucked.

I was manually switching on/off the OD and saving up for the pro racer software.

I called a another shop today and asked about a custom Trans tune and they wanted $600.

I have appointment at transmission shop tomorrow.

[71cyclone]

Ditto on DOOMS POST / The Tune- corrected the problem [reset throttle pressure ] With light acceleration ,shift down would take affect. [ I also changed my pcv location ]

[MrBluGruv]

IF YOU ARE LUCKY, it's the tune.

This sounds EXACTLY like my trans did when it died, the stub shaft sheared itself into pieces. The car would drive under it's own power in 1st and 2nd, but 3rd would start to free -rev under moderate load and O/D was gone completely.

Here were videos of my acceleration 1 week to only days before it torqued itself apart, notice the kind of glide/slurring mush transition between 1st and 2nd gear during shifts:

BnioKiOdFnY

1EOgKPFAib8

Here's my thread about it, needless to say I was in a panic...

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61777

[guspech750]

A local shop......it was not a good experience. I knew I was in trouble when he said the 4th to 2nd down shift was not a problem. He said he kept the line pressure stock but turned up the speed at which the transmission shifted. He also changed downshift schedule but appeared to keep the up shift schedule the same. It would be in OD with the TC locked at 30mph which of course sucked.

I was manually switching on/off the OD and saving up for the pro racer software.

I called a another shop today and asked about a custom Trans tune and they wanted $600.

I have appointment at transmission shop tomorrow.

$600! I think you are better off shipping to a well respected tuner and then drive it home when it's done.

Are you on any Mustang forums? Ask some of the Mustang peeps if there are any respected tuners who do a lot of modular motor work/dyno tunes out your way.

Oh man. I hope you get this straightened out soon so you can start :burnout:


---
- Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[burt ragio]

Download or upload your limp mod tune. Kep your foot out of it to stay safe. See if it makes any differnce. My bet it's the tune.

[Da Dark Jedi]

Also there's an old thread about the J-Mod from 03 or 04. When Mac and Zack first did theirs they discovered a "Spiral Clip spring", that was not put on a shaft from the factor. This was on both their cars, they determined that possibly alot more Marauders was like this. Zack did mention that a stock car you would not damage the trans but SC cars you should have it put on. Check the early threads on J-Mod and you'll see this.

[03sport007]

So it looks like a have a couple of options.

1. Find a used transmission perform the J-Mod and call it a day. Cost about $600. Without knowing the history there is a good chance I’ll be back in the same boat.

2. Try and rebuild the transmission myself(with the help of a friend who does transmissions on the side). Cost about $600. I’m actually tempted by this. But I put the chances of success at about 50/50. Then I’m right back were I started.

3. Local Shop. I called two performance shops in my area and no one had any recommendations for local performance rebuild. Which I thought was strange. I took the car to a shop we use a lot at work and talk to the owner. He didn’t give me a big warm and fuzzy that he would do any upgrades just wanted to fix what was broken. He said worse case scenario $2000-$2500.

4. Mail order transmission. Cost $2000-2500. I talked with Darin at BC Automotive for about 30min and liked what he had to say. Super nice guy. I’m actually seriously considering this option.

[Spectragod]

So it looks like a have a couple of options.

1. Find a used transmission perform the J-Mod and call it a day. Cost about $600. Without knowing the history there is a good chance I’ll be back in the same boat.

2. Try and rebuild the transmission myself(with the help of a friend who does transmissions on the side). Cost about $600. I’m actually tempted by this. But I put the chances of success at about 50/50. Then I’m right back were I started.

3. Local Shop. I called two performance shops in my area and no one had any recommendations for local performance rebuild. Which I thought was strange. I took the car to a shop we use a lot at work and talk to the owner. He didn’t give me a big warm and fuzzy that he would do any upgrades just wanted to fix what was broken. He said worse case scenario $2000-$2500.

4. Mail order transmission. Cost $2000-2500. I talked with Darin at BC Automotive for about 30min and liked what he had to say. Super nice guy. I’m actually seriously considering this option.


Darrin is a good guy, he did my trans., he was the only one I could find that I felt had the ability and knew these cars. He can modify your tune as well.

[03sport007]

Download or upload your limp mod tune. Kep your foot out of it to stay safe. See if it makes any differnce. My bet it's the tune.

I'm almost 100 percent the tune is not my current problem. It may have help cause my current problem but my transmission is toast.

I drove it to a transmission shop and its getting worse fast.

So I officially brought the Blue Flame (94 Grand Marquis) back into service. I hate driving that thing but at least I'm fortunate enough to have options.

Why has no one tried to rebuild their own transmission? The more I read the more I ask that question. What am I missing?

[LANDY]

buy the parts and let your friend rebuilt it. thats your best alternative

[Spectragod]

Why has no one tried to rebuild their own transmission? The more I read the more I ask that question. What am I missing?

The same reason I haven't attempted brain surgery, I have not background or training in it. Could I do it.... yes, but then I have to R&I the trans, buy some tools that I don't own, and will most likely never use again.

Then, will it perform 100%, don't know, but if it doesn't, then the process would need repeated, more $$$$, or, I can pay a guy like Darrin, who has done 100's of these, and will stand behind it with a warranty, and never have to deal with it again.

Sometimes it's just easier to open the checkbook................

[03sport007]

The same reason I haven't attempted brain surgery, I have not background or training in it. Could I do it.... yes, but then I have to R&I the trans, buy some tools that I don't own, and will most likely never use again.

Then, will it perform 100%, don't know, but if it doesn't, then the process would need repeated, more $$$$, or, I can pay a guy like Darrin, who has done 100's of these, and will stand behind it with a warranty, and never have to deal with it again.

Sometimes it's just easier to open the checkbook................

Trust me I get that....I really do. But it just seems odd to me that in this day and age when most people think reading something on the Internet makes them a expert nobody has tried it. Maybe they have and failed and just don't want to talk about it?

It's not just this site it's universal you can't find anybody that's done it. If someone asked is it possible to do a gear change themselves you'll get 10 people saying "no". But usually there is a small minority that says it can be done. If you read other sites its about the same ratio. Think of all things we attempt( j-mod, gear changes, eaton swaps, engine rebuilds, decreeing cams, fixing LCM). I just wonder what's so scary about a automatic transmission.

Just so we are clear I'm not trying to pick a fight I'm just curious.

[justbob]

This is where I buy all my trans parts from. Very informative people, decent prices, and super quick shipping. Thinking of giving their trans a try soon.
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/aod.htm

Broke yours by a day of beating on it??? NO WAY, complete B.S. Something was already on its way out, or the tune jacked with it. I and many others have beaten the livin snot out of ours at the track and with stickies with way more miles than yours and not a single issue. When mine goes, I plan to call Ford and say THANK YOU for building such a great trans, then plan my upgrade. :) Kinda diggin on the 6L80e GM unit and the sheer bullitproof of them. We shall see when that time comes.

[LANDY]

This is where I buy all my trans parts from. Very informative people, decent prices, and super quick shipping. Thinking of giving their trans a try soon.
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/aod.htm

Broke yours by a day of beating on it??? NO WAY, complete B.S. Something was already on its way out, or the tune jacked with it. I and many others have beaten the livin snot out of ours at the track and with stickies with way more miles than yours and not a single issue. When mine goes, I plan to call Ford and say THANK YOU for building such a great trans, then plan my upgrade. :) Kinda diggin on the 6L80e GM unit and the sheer bullitproof of them. We shall see when that time comes. ditto, our transmissions are great for withsanding all the abuse we give them.
On the Darrin subject, Yes he is reputable builder but if you go to tccoa.com read and understand a little about our transmissions there is part nubers of parts you can buy to build one that can hold up to 700chp.

[Spectragod]

Trust me I get that....I really do. But it just seems odd to me that in this day and age when most people think reading something on the Internet makes them a expert nobody has tried it. Maybe they have and failed and just don't want to talk about it?

It's not just this site it's universal you can't find anybody that's done it. If someone asked is it possible to do a gear change themselves you'll get 10 people saying "no". But usually there is a small minority that says it can be done. If you read other sites its about the same ratio. Think of all things we attempt( j-mod, gear changes, eaton swaps, engine rebuilds, decreeing cams, fixing LCM). I just wonder what's so scary about a automatic transmission.

Just so we are clear I'm not trying to pick a fight I'm just curious.

Well, for me, if the cost of the build/install is the same cost of the tools it would take me to do it, I will just pay someone to do the job.

Additionally, a lot of people are not mechanically inclined, and therefore cannot do the work themselves.

I do have a lot of tools, I spent 16 years in a body shop, and did mechanical work as needed too. I am mechanically inclined, if I can't fix it, I can fix it so no one can.

But I know that an automatic transmission can be quite complicated, some times, things are better left to those that have a superior skill set.:beer:

[adtaylor]

You can never go wrong letting a exprience shop do your tranny for you. Thats why Lido did mine, and while he had it I let him redo the rear end for the 3rd time (1st time he has touch the rear) because of noise in it. Could of and would saved me $$ in the long run if I had taken her to him in the 1st place. But because I trying to save a few $$ with people that claimed they knew what they were doing I didn't. You get what you pay for, thats why Lido will be the only one from this point on the will touch her.

[sailsmen]

Over the years a number of people have had transmission problems. There was a period of time when there was a rash of trans failures.

There does not seem to be much rhyme or reason to it. It maybe related to mfg tolerances or assembly at the factory. Several trans that were analyzed revealed improper assembly at the factory.

I had my trans built at ~45K. I had it freshened up at 95K, but it was reassembled improperly. It was sent back and rebuilt. I don't think it will last much longer.

I went through 2 trans in 60K miles on an E150, same trans as the MM, that never towed anything and only hauled a few small children.

[BODYMAN]

!st off Josh iam sorry to hear this. 2nd My 04 had 108,000 on stk tranny when Alluminator Whipple job was done. Shortly before that I had noticed a hesitation when putting in Drive so had a buddys shop doaa flush on the tranny and new filter tranny then felt great. That was before Zacks build for me he also did a j-mod at time he installed LB & Whipple. Then we took her to Tim Barth @ Mr Norms for the tune I know when doing all the dyno tuning Zack had Tim use his trans values. After taking her off the dyno and intial romping Zack & I felt very slight What I would call the trans simply being overpowered (slipping at top end) by the motor set up. Iam at 556 rwtq/545rwhp That alot of TQ going thru Tranny well we looked at each other and I said well time to buy a tranny. Well That was over 7000 miles ago & stk Tranny still going strong. From one of youre 1st statements U mentioned something didnt seem right from the beging Well are cars arent Mustang alot more weight to move if Convertor lock/unlock in tune is not right along with shift schedule UP/Down with good line pressure That can eat a Trans Quickly. As for my tranny it is still going strong did a little something that 1st day and nothing sense However I Know once we have a local track and I really start running it VERY hard it is gonna brake. Personally Id get one built by a reputable Trans place who knows Ford 4rw Transmission. Cause at youre power level a correctly built one should last for ever at that power level. Had one of Darrins Trans in my 03 it held up very well. As for this one Zack had recomended a Performance Trans shop in NY state. I did some investigating and found quite a few Fords 750+ HP with there Tranny's and no problems. I gotta get u that one thing so In meantime Ill try and find that link, Not to mention there prices were not ridiculous.

[99SVT]

I had the same dilemma last year. I broke the stub shaft after 3 years of beating on it with a supercharger. It had a J-mod and the line pressure was jacked up a bit which was a bit too much shock loading for the trans.

I ended up going with a lentech, it cost some $$$ but, I'll have a hard time breaking this one. I might have rebuilt the stock one, however there was some debris that made it's way into the gear sets.

[03sport007]

Wow!!! I usually don’t struggle making a decision but this one was tough. On one extreme I thought about shipping the Car to Lido so he could take care of both my issues. On the other extreme I thought about taking the transmission apart and fixing whatever was broken myself and hoping it was cheap.


For anybody thinking about rebuilding their own transmission or just want to learn more about it I found these websites informative.

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/index.shtml

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128800

http://www.clickclickracing.com/forums/forum.php An actual website dedicated to Drag Racing AOD Mustangs. Now I know there is a Website for everything.

I had actually made up my mind to try and rebuild the transmission myself. But my Wife quickly reminded me that I had spent the last 2 ½ months working on “THAT” car. So that was not a viable option.

After calling around locally for about a day I still couldn’t find anybody that gave me a warm and fuzy about building me a transmission.

I found the following company selling “Perfomance” 4R70W Online

http://www.silverfoxtrans.com/silverfoxtrans.com/Home.html

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/

http://www.lentechautomatics.com/

http://www.fbperformance.com/aboutus.asp

http://bcatransmissions.com/


Most sell similar products with similar prices. For most it’s not difficult to find unhappy customers.

SilverFox and BC Automotive were the two exceptions.

I had never heard of SilverFox before but they love his transmissions on Corral.net. Dan the owner is a supper nice guy and very helpful. He was my second choice.


SVTPerformnace, Mach1Regestry, F150.com, and every other Ford high performance website I could think of all have one thing in common. They love Darin and his transmissions.

So that’s what I did. It should be ready in about 2 weeks and I cant wait. Darrin has been very helpful and a pleasure to work with. He highly recommended a triple disc Circle D TC (Chris at Cirlcle D also a super cool dude) so I ordered one of those. I’ll take this opportunity to get a driveshaft loop, bigger trans cooler and balance my driveshaft. Can’t wait!!!!!

I though it was ironic that the only bad experiences I could find with BC Automotive were on this site. FordNut and Zach are the only people I could find that had anything negative to say and I respect them both very much. That weighed heavy on my decision. You also don’t have to look very hard to find numerous people on this site that have had good experiences. Like I said I struggled but think I make the right choice. Wish me Luck!!!!

[guspech750]

Cool beans man. I'm glad you'll be celebrating your Wreeeeeeeedom in a few weeks!!


---
- Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[burt ragio]

Lookin foward to see you up & running.

[BODYMAN]

Glad to hear Josh! I can imagine how ready you are to start enjoying youre new found power! I think you will be happy with youre choice, Myself & another member here in St. Louis both have one one of his tranny's in our cars. Well mine was in my 03 but I never had a problem with it.

[justbob]

Never once a customer and Darrin has givin me free tech help twice on weekends! Super nice guy, and that is where I'll be purchasing from when I decide what trans to use.

[03sport007]

Never once a customer and Darrin has givin me free tech help twice on weekends! Super nice guy, and that is where I'll be purchasing from when I decide what trans to use.

I liked your idea of using the 6l80e. The required trans controller made it a little costly. Would have been cool to do something different.

[03sport007]

Lookin foward to see you up & running.

Thanks me too. FYI check engine light still hasn't come back on. In case you were wondering.

[03sport007]

Cool beans man. I'm glad you'll be celebrating your Wreeeeeeeedom in a few weeks!!


---
- Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!


Me too....I'll bet you miss Hawaii...I love that place!!

[03sport007]

Glad to hear Josh! I can imagine how ready you are to start enjoying youre new found power! I think you will be happy with youre choice, Myself & another member here in St. Louis both have one one of his tranny's in our cars. Well mine was in my 03 but I never had a problem with it.

Thanks Todd. Have Really put 7000 miles on your wipple? You must drive that thing alot.

[03sport007]

I thought I’d update this thread. I do it for the sole purpose that others can learn from my mistakes.

When I ordered my transmission from Darin he strongly recommended a Triple Disc Circle D torque converter. He also said this was a TC that was made for him and not available on the Circle D website. This seemed a little strange to me so I emailed Chris at Circle D. I explained how I intended to use the car and asked if he agreed with Darrin’s recommendation. Because the car will see limited Drag Strip Duty he recommended a 12” converter with a lower then stock stall speed. Nobody mentioned that the stock Marauder TC is an 11”.

Both the Transmission and TC arrive on schedule and as promised. Now if you don’t already know this removing the transmission in a Marauder by yourself on jack stands is absolutely no fun. But what’s even less fun is installing a transmission by yourself on jack stands. You can imagine my frustration when I quickly realized the reason I couldn’t line up my TC bolts to the Flex plate was because my new 12” TC doesn’t fit.

I called Darin and he apologized for the mix-up and agreed to send me a flex plate that would work in my application at no charge. Up to this point Darin had been very helpful and pleasure to work with. Unfortunately this was the last communication I had with him. I have since left several voicemails with no success. I’ve read similar post on other sites saying the same thing. It’s like he fell of the face of the earth. I sincerely hope he is ok.

Within a week I receive a different flex plate from Darrin. Unfortunately it looked like it had spent most of its life at the bottom of the ocean. It was very rusty. After doing a little research I bought a new flex plate and installed the transmission again.

On the initial start up I notice a vibration. It was minor but noticeable. I also see that the tail shaft is leaking. Not bad…just a drip but still not something I’m happy about. At this point I’m a little frustrated and tired. I pulled my car in the garage on Oct 10th to do my Eaton Swap and its now March and I still haven’t been able to drive it. Sucked!!!!!

I couldn’t stand it anymore and had to drive it. I thought maybe it would get better. . First thing I notice is how nicely it shifts…firm and quick. Feels good. Second thing I notice is how obnoxious it is when the TC locks. Way firmer then when the transmission shifts gears. Doesn’t feel right but I never driven a car with a triple disc TC before? Maybe that the new normal?

After driving for 2 days I decide to visit a transmission shop to ask them about my vibration. The say it’s definitely not normal. They guess that the TC is not balanced.

I called Chris at Circle D who agrees to send me a new TC no questions asked. Very Cool!!!! Instead of sending me another 12” I ask him to send me an 11” so I can use my original flex plate. To be honest I could never tell the difference between the stall speeds on the 12” (about 2200rpm) and the 11”(about 2600rpm). Both felt just like my stock converter (2800 rpm).

So I drop the transmission for the 3rd time and install the new 11” convertor with my original flex plate. By this time I finally have my tune figured out (Thanks Zack). I go for a drive. H***y S**t what a difference. Vibration is gone. TC lockup is smooth as silk. The thing shifts perfect!!!!!! Part throttle shifts are quick and firm LOVE it. The more aggressive you get with the throttle the more aggressive the shift firmness gets. Go WOT and you better be going straight because the slightest turn and the 1st to 2nd shift would make Tanner Foust proud. The car is absolute animal!!!!

Chris at Circle D was AWESOME and I would recommend him to anybody. Class act.

Darrin was very very helpful and his transmission feels GREAT. Besides the drip from the tail shaft and the miscommunication about the TC I couldn’t be happier. I’m little worried that he seems to be MIA. I hope he is ok.

The only thing I would have done different has to do with the Wave Plate. During the build Darrin asked if I wanted to keep it. I said that I trusted him and to do what he thought was best.

The theory is by removing the Wave Plate you can add more clutches without expensive machining. The down side being more clutches equals more heat. My old transmission would see temps ranging from 180(normal driving) to 200(spirited driving). The highest I’ve seen with the new transmission is 140.

The other down side to removing the Wave Plate is you can feel the down shift from 4th to 3rd. It’s not bad but noticeable. Had I known it was going to be this noticeable I would have asked more questions and explored other alternatives? The more I drive it the less it bothers me.

[guspech750]

Me too....I'll bet you miss Hawaii...I love that place!!

Oh man do I miss the perfect weather.


Very awesome you have everything straightened out!!

Now go out and celebrate your Wreeeeeeeeeeeeedom!! :burnout:


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[BODYMAN]

Thanks Todd. Have Really put 7000 miles on your wipple? You must drive that thing alot.

Well considering that was in Jan, Now Iam upto over 12,500 on it. As for driving it yep almost every day. It's nice to here you can finaly enjoy youre car. Iam sure Zack was a big help to.. Enjoy:beer:

[Bradley G]

Good Thread very helpful!