4.10 gears.

[scareylincoln]

I have an 04 w/ 130k mi. I'm about to acquire a Lidio tune and am contemplating the Ford racing 4.10's. I commute at least 50mi/day, 6 days/wk mostly highway averaging 80mph. Would I regret the gear change? Wear on the vehicle, mpg's, etc. Thx!

[prchrman]

With your situation I would get the tune and a CAI only. I got the 4.10s but do not drive mine every day. In the end it is your decision, gas mileage will suffer at 80mph, maybe about 1.5mpg or more.

[SC Cheesehead]

IMO, the car actually runs better with 4.10s at highway speed as you're a tad higher in the power range than you would be with the OEM 3.55s.

I tracked mileage before and after gear installation and saw around 1 mpg difference, but a big improvement in performance.

Your call, but if it were me, I'd do the gears and the tune and never look back.

[fastblackmerc]

Just do the 4.10's.

To my knowledge no one has ever regreted installing them.

[TAKEDOWN]

Do it! Do it! Do it!

Do you need more convincing???

Do it! Do it! Do it!

[J-MAN]

I'd say just do the tune for now. It's such a difference you'll kick yourself for waiting so long. I did the Lidio tune at 100k and 4:10's at 130k. Tune is amazing, 4:10's not so much. Take the gear $'s and treat your Marauder to a professional detail in and out. Much more rewarding and lots of jingle left over.

[scareylincoln]

All of the feedback is greatly appreciated! I don't know the maintenance history of the vehicle but it was a former Sherriff's cruiser in N. GA so I'd have to assume it was meticulously maintained. The guys at my shop call it "super clean" especially being a former fleet veh. I've been advised to stay away from the 4.10s not knowing the true maintenance history. I'll assume from all the feedback that the 4.10's are not a cause for concern re: wear and tear on the rest of the drivetrain.

[Blackened300a]

All of the feedback is greatly appreciated! I don't know the maintenance history of the vehicle but it was a former Sherriff's cruiser in N. GA so I'd have to assume it was meticulously maintained. The guys at my shop call it "super clean" especially being a former fleet veh. I've been advised to stay away from the 4.10s not knowing the true maintenance history. I'll assume from all the feedback that the 4.10's are not a cause for concern re: wear and tear on the rest of the drivetrain.

4.10s will not harm any other part of the drivetrain. There has been discussion about 4.10s lowering the critical speed of the driveshaft and has caused transmission tail shaft failures above 125mph. That would be the only negative. You will need a tune with the new gears to calibrate the speedometer and shift schedule.

[fesifisky]

The biggest difference I've noticed with the 4.10s mileage-wise is in the city, I don't race on the street, but it's fun to annihilate people off the line, which will lower your mpg. Highway, above 70/75 shouldn't be too wallet impacting, the fun factor tends to make up for that.

If anything, get the tune/CAI first see how you like it then you can get the gears and just update the tune for the speedo/shifting.

[guspech750]

I love my 4.10's!! I love them more with my supercharger:burnout:


---
- Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[tbone]

The MM was supposed to have 4.10's from the factory, but they were deleted for CAFE standards. Do you want the car to perform the way it's SUPPOSED to, or just be an EPA slave?

[burt ragio]

The gear change will only increase the rpm by 500. Nothing to worry about. I run the hwy all day every day.

[babbage]

I have an 04 w/ 130k mi. I'm about to acquire a Lidio tune and am contemplating the Ford racing 4.10's. I commute at least 50mi/day, 6 days/wk mostly highway averaging 80mph. Would I regret the gear change? Wear on the vehicle, mpg's, etc. Thx!

If you average 80mph every day and are concerned about mileage - 3.73's would be small step up and what I'd recommend. At 80 Mph I'm spinning 2500 rpm with 3.73 gears, with 4.10's - 80 is about 2800 rpm. Perhaps try 3.90 ratio - you'll need a tune.

Fact: With 4.10 your engine will get used 15% more for *every* mile, so expect your mileage to be about %15 less. E.g. You'll loose 2-3 mpg.

With 130K, I'd also get new: Carrier (trak-lok) bearing kit, axles - not just the gears.

[scareylincoln]

This is a great forum with a lot of interested and knowledgeable members. All of the info is being absorbed and is greatly appreciated. I'm definitely getting the tuner but I'm not sure I want to spend the extra $ on the rear end. Thanks for all the input! Oh, by the way, the 03-04 MM is the best car ever re-created.

[myrodr]

i drove my car on 1500 mile trip lidio tune 4:10 gears running with traffic got 25mpg on 2 tank fills and 23 mpg on the others. lost mpg when i put the eaton on!! may be my driving!! much more fun to drive now.

[SC Cheesehead]

i drove my car on 1500 mile trip lidio tune 4:10 gears running with traffic got 25mpg on 2 tank fills and 23 mpg on the others. lost mpg when i put the eaton on!! may be my driving!! much more fun to drive now.

Same problem here.

I'm blaming it on the 39 lb injectors and the BAP... ;)

[EMAS]

If you are running at that speed that much 4.10 gears may not be the best choice for you. It will decrease your MPG and it will increase the wear on the engine as it will turn more revs per mile. With 4.10 gears and that much driving at that speed I'd definitely do the transmission tailshaft bushing pressure lube modification. Here is a good write up with pics. http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/99-04/114139-tailshaft-lube-mod-write-up.html or you can buy one already done. This is one of the better I've seen since it includes a braided stainless steel line for plug and play action. http://www.ebay.com/itm/AODE-4R70W-4R75W-Tailshaft-Lube-Mod-Kit-/320646612484?item=320646612484&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/AODE-4R70W-4R75W-Tailshaft-Lube-Mod-Kit-/320646612484?item=320646612484&vxp=mtr)Off the top of my head though I'm not sure if the one pictured is the correct length for the Marauder or not. Here is someone that offers both. http://www.blueovalchips.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=74

[fastblackmerc]

If you are running at that speed that much 4.10 gears may not be the best choice for you. It will decrease your MPG and it will increase the wear on the engine as it will turn more revs per mile. With 4.10 gears and that much driving at that speed I'd definitely do the transmission tailshaft bushing pressure lube modification. Here is a good write up with pics. http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/99-04/114139-tailshaft-lube-mod-write-up.html or you can buy one already done. This is one of the better I've seen since it includes a braided stainless steel line for plug and play action. http://www.ebay.com/itm/AODE-4R70W-4R75W-Tailshaft-Lube-Mod-Kit-/320646612484?item=320646612484&vxp=mtr
Give me a break!

I've had my 4.10's installed for over 60k miles. Never had a problem with the transmission tailshaft. If you run at over 120MPH for long periods of time I'd definitely do the tail shaft lube mod and get an MMX or carbon fiber driveshaft.

I just ran my Marauder at 80MPH for a total of 4 hours and no problems at all. I do that at least once a month.

As stated previously you'll lose 1-2 MPG and yes the engine will turn 200 - 300 RPMs faster, your not going to wear the motor out.


BTW... the Marauder uses the long tailshaft.

[guspech750]

Sure I lost MPG's since the 4.10 install. And sure I lost even more MPG's since my Eaton swap(foot to the floor:))

Let's face it. If you want to save gas. By a bicycle.

It's all about SPM's!!!

I get about 1,000 Smiles Per Miles when I drive my MM!!
That's what is all about:burnout:


---
- Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[Blackened300a]

If you are running at that speed that much 4.10 gears may not be the best choice for you. It will decrease your MPG and it will increase the wear on the engine as it will turn more revs per mile. With 4.10 gears and that much driving at that speed I'd definitely do the transmission tailshaft bushing pressure lube modification. Here is a good write up with pics. http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/99-04/114139-tailshaft-lube-mod-write-up.html or you can buy one already done. This is one of the better I've seen since it includes a braided stainless steel line for plug and play action. http://www.ebay.com/itm/AODE-4R70W-4R75W-Tailshaft-Lube-Mod-Kit-/320646612484?item=320646612484&vxp=mtrOff the top of my head though I'm not sure if the one pictured is the correct length for the Marauder or not. Here is someone that offers both. http://www.blueovalchips.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=74


I have over 50K miles since I went with 4.10's and never had a issue driving 80+ MPH over 700 miles to MV7 and MV8, plus all my local driving.

[scareylincoln]

Thanks to all!

[mrjones]

I've got one with 4.10s and one with 3.55s. If I were you, I'd get the tuner from Lidio first and see how you like it. You can easily have him include the tune for 4.10s with your tuner. If you're unhappy with just the tune then you can have the gears done and just install the tune for the gears. It will take all of 5 minutes. I'm betting that you will be VERY impressed with just the tune. I did the gears first on mine, and then bought the tune. If I had it to do over again, I would just have gotten the tune. Good luck with the mods. You will enjoy it whether you do one or both!

[ace7]

Hey MM world,
This forum is awesome. Im a newby to the MM world. My car is with Lidio as we speak getting a beefed up trans and tune. I'm really considering getting 4.10 gears, but im really not sure what to do. Need help~!!!!!!! Is it really that noticable diff with the gears? Does the gears change over all effect and durability of the car, with daily driving?

[guspech750]

Hey MM world,
This forum is awesome. Im a newby to the MM world. My car is with Lidio as we speak getting a beefed up trans and tune. I'm really considering getting 4.10 gears, but im really not sure what to do. Need help~!!!!!!! Is it really that noticable diff with the gears? Does the gears change over all effect and durability of the car, with daily driving?

4.10's = more Wreeeeeeeeedom!!

You can't go wrong getting them. They were originally supposed to come installed from the factory. But jagbag non-car enthusiast changed that. Plus millions (:lol:) of other Marauder owners have changed over to 4.10's with no issues and love them.

I love my 4.10's. The off the line get up and go is sweeeeeeeet!!


---
- Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[MrBluGruv]

Give me a break! I've had my 4.10's installed for over 60k miles. Never had a problem with the transmission tailshaft.

Definitely agree here. I bought an MMX driveshaft from DR when I did my gear swap. Even neglecting the incompetence on DR's part for that transaction, I feel that was the most honest waste of money I made in my MM. I am hesitant to even fully believe what is said about it now, unless I can get some reputable source to tell me otherwise, and of course a source other than DR (a big part of why I kind of don't believe why I would've needed it in the first place.)


Hey MM world,
This forum is awesome. Im a newby to the MM world. My car is with Lidio as we speak getting a beefed up trans and tune. I'm really considering getting 4.10 gears, but im really not sure what to do. Need help~!!!!!!! Is it really that noticable diff with the gears? Does the gears change over all effect and durability of the car, with daily driving?

You know, I hate to be critical on a new person, since I don't want you to feel unwelcome, but did you even read anything that was posted in this thread before you posted in it?

You should find all the info you need about your question with the exception of someone explicitly telling you whatever it is you specifically want to hear if you go back and read them. Driveability, fuel economy, engine wear, fun-factor, etc....

The one thing I will say that I don't think anyone else has said (possibly because my experience may not have been the same as everyone else), is that my 4.10 Marauder ran almost neck-and-neck with a 3.55 Marauder from a roll. From a dig there is a pretty significant difference, but if you are the type that likes to partake in roll racing, THAT may be a serious reason to not do 3.55 rear gear (because frankly I don't think it'll really help all that much). Maybe someone else can chime in to that effect as well, or maybe someone can tell me I just had bad luck....

[guspech750]

The one thing I will say that I don't think anyone else has said (possibly because my experience may not have been the same as everyone else), is that my 4.10 Marauder ran almost neck-and-neck with a 3.55 Marauder from a roll. From a dig there is a pretty significant difference, but if you are the type that likes to partake in roll racing, THAT may be a serious reason to not do 3.55 rear gear (because frankly I don't think it'll really help all that much). Maybe someone else can chime in to that effect as well, or maybe someone can tell me I just had bad luck....

One thing I do miss from not having 3.55's is the bigger down shift from 3 to 2 gear while driving at highway speeds.


---
- Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[ace7]

Definitely agree here. I bought an MMX driveshaft from DR when I did my gear swap. Even neglecting the incompetence on DR's part for that transaction, I feel that was the most honest waste of money I made in my MM. I am hesitant to even fully believe what is said about it now, unless I can get some reputable source to tell me otherwise, and of course a source other than DR (a big part of why I kind of don't believe why I would've needed it in the first place.)



You know, I hate to be critical on a new person, since I don't want you to feel unwelcome, but did you even read anything that was posted in this thread before you posted in it?

You should find all the info you need about your question with the exception of someone explicitly telling you whatever it is you specifically want to hear if you go back and read them. Driveability, fuel economy, engine wear, fun-factor, etc....

The one thing I will say that I don't think anyone else has said (possibly because my experience may not have been the same as everyone else), is that my 4.10 Marauder ran almost neck-and-neck with a 3.55 Marauder from a roll. From a dig there is a pretty significant difference, but if you are the type that likes to partake in roll racing, THAT may be a serious reason to not do 3.55 rear gear (because frankly I don't think it'll really help all that much). Maybe someone else can chime in to that effect as well, or maybe someone can tell me I just had bad luck....

Im still learning how to navigate through this mass of info. Thanks for the insight. No pun taken. Im just trying to learn as much as possible about the MM. Hopefully i can find some local club around the Metro DTW. Thanks once again:beer:

[babbage]

Definitely agree here. I bought an MMX driveshaft from DR when I did my gear swap. Even neglecting the incompetence on DR's part for that transaction, I feel that was the most honest waste of money I made in my MM.


The one thing I will say that I don't think anyone else has said (possibly because my experience may not have been the same as everyone else), is that my 4.10 Marauder ran almost neck-and-neck with a 3.55 Marauder from a roll. From a dig there is a pretty significant difference, but if you are the type that likes to partake in roll racing, THAT may be a serious reason to not do 3.55 rear gear (because frankly I don't think it'll really help all that much). Maybe someone else can chime in to that effect as well, or maybe someone can tell me I just had bad luck....

Yep, you had bad luck. You got 4.10's and 'drove it like you stole it' (without a proper break-in) and not surprisingly blew up your rear end and transmission. You never recovered, had problems, was never the same and you sold your MM.

[ctrlraven]

I've got one with 4.10s and one with 3.55s. If I were you, I'd get the tuner from Lidio first and see how you like it. You can easily have him include the tune for 4.10s with your tuner. If you're unhappy with just the tune then you can have the gears done and just install the tune for the gears. It will take all of 5 minutes. I'm betting that you will be VERY impressed with just the tune. I did the gears first on mine, and then bought the tune. If I had it to do over again, I would just have gotten the tune. Good luck with the mods. You will enjoy it whether you do one or both!

This^

Get yourself the tune first and see how you like that. If you need something more than add gears down the road.

I waited around for 3 years to put gears in my car mainly cause I was worrying about other parts of the car but after having stock gears for so long and then changing to 4.10s I can appreciate and enjoy the noticeable difference in performance they offer. I do about 60 mi round trip x5 everyweek, sometimes I take the Marauder and it makes passing ppl a whole lot easier and funner. :lol:

[scareylincoln]

Going with the tune and putting the rear end on the back burner for now. Thanks to everyone for the input! This is hands down the best forum I've ever been involved with.

[jstevens]

Im still learning how to navigate through this mass of info. Thanks for the insight. No pun taken. Im just trying to learn as much as possible about the MM. Hopefully i can find some local club around the Metro DTW. Thanks once again:beer:

Go to motorcitymarauders.com

I've had a NA MM with 4.10's and now a S/C'd one with 3.55's.

It depends on your plans, if you are going to remain NA, do the 4.10's.
Noticeable from a dig.

[MrBluGruv]

Yep, you had bad luck. You got 4.10's and 'drove it like you stole it' (without a proper break-in) and not surprisingly blew up your rear end and transmission. You never recovered, had problems, was never the same and you sold your MM.

Yep, rear gears was why my transmission broke. :shake:

Get a clue guy.

[Shaijack]

4:10's for President. I never go anywhere without them.

[BCMARAUDING]

I'm in the same boat as others thinkin about a tune from Lidio and 4.10's (Does anyone know if Lidio has a package for both?)

My 03 Marauder has 75k on it, any thing else I should be considering?

[SC Cheesehead]

Give Lidio a call, he can sell you an xCal tuner with tunes loaded for both 3.55 and 4.10 gears as well as the gears.

http://www.alternativeauto.com/03-04_Marauder.html

Or you can order the gears through Sparta
http://spartaperformance.com/

or FRPP, and just get the tuner through Lidio if you prefer to go that route.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField= 13229

[BCMARAUDING]

Thanks SC! I'll give him a call.

[clintons4]

Yep, you had bad luck. You got 4.10's and 'drove it like you stole it' (without a proper break-in) and not surprisingly blew up your rear end and transmission. You never recovered, had problems, was never the same and you sold your MM.


You don't need to "break in" gears. Its BS. If they are installed right you will have no issues. Let the :argue: begin....

[babbage]

You don't need to "break in" gears. Its BS. If they are installed right you will have no issues. Let the :argue: begin....

You are smarter than all of the people at Richmond Gea (http://www.richmondgear.com/)r (may want to call them)


BREAK IN
A new ring and pinion installation, especially a high numeric ratio with new bearings, can cause an excessive heat buildup in the rear end and cause softening of the gear teeth and bearings if a break in is not performed.
Street vehicles should be driven at normal street driving speed for approximately 10 miles, then stop and let cool for 30 minutes. Do this 2 to 3 times. Towing vehicles need approximately 200-300 miles of normal street driving before being used for towing.
On circle track race cars make approximately 6 to 8 laps at slow speed, then let cool for 30 minutes. Make 6 to 8 more laps at slow speed, then 2 to 3 laps at full speed, the let cool again for 30 minutes.
Drag cars need only an initial run-in since they are driven short distances and heat is not normally a problem with proper lube and backlash allowance.
NOTE: If after the above break in is performed, overheating of the rear end is suspected, repeat the final portion of the break in procedures.


There are thousands of more examples -- check with ANY ring and gear manufacturer and they'll tell you to break in new gears and they'll tell you why. Or you can go with just some dumb random guy on the internet who proclaims 'you ain't gotta'

[clintons4]

You are smarter than all of the people at Richmond Gea (http://www.richmondgear.com/)r (may want to call them)

Ok, I am sure that someone else will agree with me. Just curious what would need to be "broken in" if the install was within specs? Please let me know. I am not being a dick. Just curious what would happen if they were installed correctly and "not broken in"

[clintons4]

BREAK IN
A new ring and pinion installation, especially a high numeric ratio with new bearings, can cause an excessive heat buildup in the rear end and cause softening of the gear teeth and bearings if a break in is not performed.
Street vehicles should be driven at normal street driving speed for approximately 10 miles, then stop and let cool for 30 minutes. Do this 2 to 3 times. Towing vehicles need approximately 200-300 miles of normal street driving before being used for towing.
On circle track race cars make approximately 6 to 8 laps at slow speed, then let cool for 30 minutes. Make 6 to 8 more laps at slow speed, then 2 to 3 laps at full speed, the let cool again for 30 minutes.
Drag cars need only an initial run-in since they are driven short distances and heat is not normally a problem with proper lube and backlash allowance.
NOTE: If after the above break in is performed, overheating of the rear end is suspected, repeat the final portion of the break in procedures.


There are thousands of more examples -- check with ANY ring and gear manufacturer and they'll tell you to break in new gears and they'll tell you why. Or you can go with just some dumb random guy on the internet who proclaims 'you ain't gotta'


And FYI Richmond Gear or any other manufacturer posts this disclaimer as a CYA only. They don't need 15 year old dildos coming back to them because they installed it with a 3/8 drive Harbor Tool set saying their gears blew up their diff. If you have ever installed any R&P you would know you did it the right way and would have confidence in your work.

[stevengerard]

get the tune first and enjoy it, but the 4:10s made a difference, 4.10s a 3500 converter and a supercharger made even a bigger difference:banana:

[whitey]

breaking in gears, not breaking in gears.....somebody is saying to break them in for a reason. break in gears: its not hard to do, and it definatly won't hurt to do it.--dont break in gears: its not hard not to break them in, but it may hurt you if you don't do it.

[MM2004]

OK.

I'll chime in here.

My wrench that installed my 410's, drove mine easy for a couple miles immediately after the install to ensure the fluid made it's way through the entire rear-end.

Then...

Several WOT's from a dig and never looked back.

I never went thru a break in period and my wrench also said it wasn't necessary.

Now, I cannot speak for cars puttin' down big numbers, but in my situation, and gears installed more than a year ago, they are as quiet as a church mouse and no issues whatsoever.

;)

Mike.

[justbob]

4.10's are such a cute choice.:D

Mines going in on the 31 st. For 4.30's! (Then probably go back a week later for 4.10's :rolleyes: )

[SC Cheesehead]

4.10's are such a cute choice.:D

Mines going in on the 31 st. For 4.30's! (Then probably go back a week later for 4.10's :rolleyes: )

Ask Marauderman about that...;) ------> :D

[guspech750]

4.10's are such a cute choice.:D

Mines going in on the 31 st. For 4.30's! (Then probably go back a week later for 4.10's :rolleyes: )

:lol:


---
- Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[scareylincoln]

Taking the next step, 4.10's. I'm now at 133k. What needs to be considered, where to order the parts and where to do the install in the Miami, Ft. Lauderdale area? Thanks!

[SC Cheesehead]

Taking the next step, 4.10's. I'm now at 133k. What needs to be considered, where to order the parts and where to do the install in the Miami, Ft. Lauderdale area? Thanks!


Bunch of good leads here:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/search.php?searchid=4481146