Help needed - check engine light

[duhtroll]

Hi all -

Once again I seek your wisdom.

My check engine light stayed on yesterday on my way home from work. Checked the fuel cap, checked around with my limited knowledge of things "looking and sounding right," and could find nothing wrong. Car runs fine (though it was out in the coldest weather it had ever been in all day yesterday - this is too much a coincidence for me to think it's unrelated).

Took into dealer this AM. They can find nothing wrong physically and tell me it is due to my programming. (dyno tune with stage I package last Aug.) Something to do with one of two sensors being misplaced or missing in the programming. (cannot remember which ones he said) I asked how this could happen when the programming took place 5 months ago and the light just came on yesterday, and he was at a loss as to what to tell me.

I told him to drive the car and let me know if he could explain it better after that, and he said everything seems fine, but the light will not go off and they can't clear it. (they don't ever drive the thing unless I ask them to - not sure if that's good or not). I told them they are not allowed to touch my chip. I will probably send it in to Dennis tomorrow AM.

I can't believe that the programming would have allofasudden failed yesterday, though the chip might not be taking to the cold very well (those things do fail from time to time).

One other thing I noticed, my rpms were approximately 100 lower than normal (not enough to make me think the chip had totally failed, but I noticed a very slight difference when I was driving home).

Any ideas on this?

I have the service manual, and cannot find anything that might be relevant, but maybe I just don't know where to look.

Thanks for any help offered!

-A

[jfclancy]

[QUOTE=duhtroll]Hi all -

Once again I seek your wisdom.

My check engine light stayed on yesterday on my way home from work. Checked the fuel cap, checked around with my limited knowledge of things "looking and sounding right," and could find nothing wrong.

Not a wrench myself but as You did not mention.... Did you check fuel filter/air filter? just my .02

Joe Clancy :)

[Smokie]

They engine light should have generated a code or more, they should have told you what code came up. Here's a couple of suggestions.

1- Disconnect battery for about 5 minutes and see if light returns.

2-Disconnect battery and remove chip and use without chip, see if light returns.

[duhtroll]

It turns out it was simply moisture in the PCM. The tech put some sealant on it to hopefully prevent this from happening again.

Then they told me it wasn't covered under warranty. (since I have a chip)

I asked if the moisture would have still been there if there were no chip, and he said "probably, but it would not have caused a problem because that part of the PCM would not have been used without the chip."

I paid the bill and left, knowing I can dispute the bill with my CC company if need be.

Now I need opinions on this. I think they are giving me a line of :bs: again.

All he did (as per Dennis Reinhart's recommendation) was remove the cpu and chip and wipe them down and put them back in. Then he tested it to make sure it worked (no light on) and sealed it. Told me that (including the test drive I asked him to do) was 1.5 hours labor, which made the bill right around $100. I think they are going to get a call from me on warranty work every time the window trim "doesn't look right" if this is how they are going to treat me.

What he said made sense, but I'm not so sure that this shouldn't have been a warranty claim.

What do you guys think? Should I be making a call to the manager tomorrow AM?

In any case, watch the moisture and maybe you chip users should put some silicone in to seal things off to prevent this problem.

Thanks,
-A

[bugsys03]

I would forget about it or you will end up on "the list" and either no one will accept warranty work except your selling dealer or they will be taking a hard look at all your mods and deny or try to deny any warranty work:(

[Smokie]

Let it go, my suggestion is to use a dealer for all your needs, make friends with service writer and mechanics, they can cover anything under warranty if they want to. Relationship with the right people is the key.:D

[junehhan]

I agree, just let it go and be nice and thank these guys for the work they did. Anyone who likes to mod their car, really needs to make as many friends as they can at the dealership. You want these guys to be your friend, because they have the ability to really make any car enthusiast's life miserable if you piss them off. In fact, I would personally start by calling them up tomarrow and thanking them for the great job they did finding the condensation build up..............

[LincMercLover]

1.5 hours to do that?!?! Someone works pretty damn slow... I could pull mine, pull it apart, "wipe it" in less than 10 mins. Now the testing procedure, who knows what that entails, but can't take more than 30mins. Reinstall, MAYBE 5 mins. Inspection, 5 mins. The test drive was pretty much useless, as it can take days for a Check Engine trouble code to reappear on something such as that. I know my A/F ratio trouble code with the new MAF (before programming) would take about 2-3 days to re-trip after clearing. So, round it out to MAYBE an hour... Well... I hope ya got a tank of gas outta the deal at least... Never had such a problem with mine and it's been in single digit degrees for a couple days. Do what you want with it, but I'd show anger... Hell, I already pissed off my selling dealer over them ripping my seat, and I don't think my new dealer likes me too much either (Long story... but I wanted my car back "after hours" which was 5 mins after they closed when I told them I'd be there for sure.). I don't really care cause if the car breaks, I'm not going to let someone put in the same kinda parts that already failed once, and I rarely have ever had to take a car in for petty stuff.

[Bigdogjim]

Tuff call? Yeah I say so. At this point after what I read here. I stop by next day with a box of donuts. Remember you are paying for what they know. Not what they did. You got of a "jam" for a $100.? A lot of money? Yes? No? Not in my book. I'm stuck somewhere in the middle.

Next day donuts and smiles........................ .................

[RF Overlord]

Sorry, LML, but I have to go with the others on this...$100 for 1.5 hrs of dealer labour is not out of line these days, and like bigdog said, a box of donuts can buy a whole lot of goodwill...people remember silly little gestures like that...

[martyo]

[A] box of donuts can buy a whole lot of goodwill...people remember silly little gestures like that...
Thank god Todd is away and won't see this post for a while. He would never, ever agree that a box of donuts is a "silly little gesture." To him, a box of donuts is his whole world.

[SergntMac]

At first read, I'm thinking "just like a dealer, see the mod and back away rather than give things a look-see." But, reading it again, I think they did their best to help a customer with something that wasn't their responsibility.

Warranty? Ummm...Well, the warranty system works with a bunch of trouble codes and repair authorizations, I suppose one of our resident wrenches could explain it better. But, where do you find a trouble code for moisture on a chip? Without a repair authorization number, the dealer doesn't get paid for his time.

I didn't try donuhts, I bribed them from day one. My favorite wrench and the SM got tipped out front. Now when I need something checked, I have their full attention, and I replenish that as needed. Did they same thing with the salesman when I bought my first MM. Once I decided I was going to buy an MM, I gave him a c-note cash and told him to shave the BS. He did. This may not be for everyone, but it works for me.

[FordNut]

I would also say the dealer probably did you a favor. He could have easily refused to work on a chipped car and also reported it so that your drivetrain warranty was voided.

[TooManyFords]

Alan,

If this is the dealer we have in common, may I recommend Witham Ford over by Crossroads? I'm pretty sure Deery will not get my business in the future.

John

[duhtroll]

This pretty much sums up what I have been feeling.

Yes, I am glad they did the work for me, but the moisture was in the CPU, not on the chip. I don't so much mind the $100 if I feel it is warranted. After all, if it is something that I did then it's my responsibility. I just was on the fence as to whether moisture on the CPU - chip or no chip - would be my problem.

The story is that the moisture would have still been there, but "that part of the PCM" would not have been used without the chip. So I paid it. It made sense. I just wanted to know if anyone here had their :bs: - o - meter go off when they heard the story.

I did think 1.5 hours of labor was a bit much, since the guy is a senior master tech, so he costs more than others. He should have been able to do it much faster. I was at work, and if I had the car with me I might have done it myself - but I didn't.

They have already received donuts from me after the stage I install. But remember this is also the group that told me just a few weeks ago that Nite Shades invalidates my warranty on my tail lights. That tells me they are going to try to make me pay for every claim if they think they can get away with it. No more donuts just yet.

So I will go with the recommendations here, which is where I was leaning in the first place. I will let this go, but I will continue to watch things very, very closely.

BTW John - I have heard some very dismal things about Witham's. The one time I took a car there it came back in bad shape (several years ago). Maybe the LM dealership in Waverly?

Thanks all,
-A

[jfclancy]

I did think 1.5 hours of labor was a bit much, since the guy is a senior master tech, so he costs more than others. He should have been able to do it much faster. I was at work, and if I had the car with me I might have done it myself - but I didn't.

Not sure how Your dealer works it, my younger brother is very good mechanic up in the Philly area who works for a dealer. He gets paid on "book time" that is to say they have a book that says how long a job should take and they charge by that instead of the time it really takes. So 1.5 hours does seem reasonable evan if it really took him less time. Lots of luck I for one do not buy the argument the moisture would not have hurt anything that is :confused: goofy to me as I have been fixing electronics since 1965 and never have found a case where moisture is good. Just my .02 worth
Joe Clancy

[LincMercLover]

Sorry, LML, but I have to go with the others on this...$100 for 1.5 hrs of dealer labour is not out of line these days...
I don't disagree with that. $100 for 1.5hours is about right. What I'm disputing is the actual time spent on the car, time it should have taken, and the time documented. That is where I'd put my agrument with them.