2005 Mm

[bigjon]

Has anyone heard 100% if there is going to be a MM after 04 or not?! I am just really curious... as I am sure everyone else is. If there is not I do not know what I am going to do. I am trying to convince my wife to let me get one, but I will have to wait until 05 to get my new car... aaaarrrghh!

[SergntMac]

There are facts, and there are stories..."Rumors."

It's a fact that Steve Babcock, the one person inside L/M most responsible for the production of the Marauder, has informed many of us, in person, "face to face" that the Marauder will cease production at the end of 2004 production. Personally, with my own ears, I have heard Steve announce this twice now, the last time was during our MM Roundup, Ennis Texas, last September.

The stories floating around here do not have a face, name, or, credible public appearance supporting them. If you trust "I know a guy who has a cousin..." stuff, you should be able to order your 2005 MM next August 1st.

To paraphrase Inspector Harry Callahan, "feel lucky, dude?"

[Petrograde]

^^^What SergntMac Said^^^

Hey BigJon,... all is not lost. if you have to wait til '05, no prob. You still should be able to pick up an '04.... at a much better price.

Tom

[MarauderMark]

I thought i read somewhere about an svt model maybe for 05 or 06. not sure though.

[Smokie]

Jon, do not expect an 05' model. However an 04' in 05' would make both you and your wife very happy, hang in there.;)

[MERCMAN]

^^^What SergntMac Said^^^

Hey BigJon,... all is not lost. if you have to wait til '05, no prob. You still should be able to pick up an '04.... at a much better price.

Tom
Possibly an '03 if you are REALLY lucky :bounce: :bounce:

[TooManyFords]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... I hope they discontinue the Marauder! I want mine to be more than just a fast CV. Because it carries the name "Marauder", I want it to mean something and carry on the traditions that bave been established.

There will be plenty of mods available in the future to keep our cars "fresh". We'll be competing with these for a long time coming.

John "getting in his flame retardant suit"

[jfclancy]

:D
Has anyone heard 100% if there is going to be a MM after 04 or not?! I am just really curious... as I am sure everyone else is. If there is not I do not know what I am going to do. I am trying to convince my wife to let me get one, but I will have to wait until 05 to get my new car... aaaarrrghh!

Per the Manager of John Eagle LM who according to Cruzer sits on some Ford R & D panel ....(second Cousin To...) YES and a detuned 330HP S/C model will be "available" as an option. Now bear in mind this was before he went to Detroit in Jan. SOOO IMHO probably maybe is as good as it gets.

Joe Clancy :D

[Donny Carlson]

:D

Per the Manager of John Eagle LM who according to Cruzer sits on some Ford R & D panel ....(second Cousin To...) YES and a detuned 330HP S/C model will be "available" as an option. Now bear in mind this was before he went to Detroit in Jan. SOOO IMHO probably maybe is as good as it gets.

Joe Clancy :D
I have news on this, too.
I went by to talk to the service manager at Champion about how displeased I was with his service departments inability to align my Marauder. He was very nice about it, and though I still don't 100% buy his explanation, we did have a good conversation about the car, modding it, and what is coming down the road. First, he cautioned me not to mod it until it was out of warrantee (natch), but then, he said, go for it! He was very interested in doing the work for me, saying he and his mechanics could handle any mod I wanted, except dyno tuning (and aligning, obviously). Cool! He said soon there would be available "a supercharger kit" through the dealership.

I bought the demonstrator of the F&I Manager, and he was and is a real lover of the car. I went to see him this afternoon after talking to the service manager, and asked him if he had heard anything about a supercharged 2005 MM. He said "Absolutely! Last week we recieved information about the car, which will be available later this year or this fall. It is definitely gonna happen." I told him if that's true, put me down for one. He grinned, and said, "You bet. You can have the first one we order!" "I'm not kidding. I want one" "I'll call you the as soon as I hear when you can order one, but something tells me you're gonna know that the same time I will." Big grins all around.

Whoa! This may be pure :bs: , but if not, I'm going to have the first one off the lot!!! YEAHHH!!!

[woaface]

Whoa!

Did someone call my name?!:coolman:

Sucks the Marauder might make it to CarandDriver TV in 20 or 30 years when they do those little skits on cars from the past. :depress:

[marauder307]

I would like to refer readers to my previous thread here

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7608

[SergntMac]

I would like to refer readers to my previous thread here http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7608
Thanks, 307, read it all again. Let's look at the opening question one more time.

Has anyone heard 100% if there is going to be a MM after 04 or not?!

As I posted earlier, yes. I have heard exatcly this from a LM executive, first in May 2003 in Dearborn, MI. and again in Sep. 2003 in Ennis Texas. In May, I was in the company of 25-30 MM owners. In Texas, maybe 100. Steve Babcock said it to us all. It's over. Done. Enjoy what you have. Y'all can believe what you want, but this is 100 percent to me.

How salesmen and service managers seem to know more, and with such certainty, perplexes me. It's sad to think that a rumor, however strong or credible, can circulate so convincingly, but that's our nature is it not. Truth weighs in, and the rumor is always a pound heavier. This is a problem for me because there are no LM names associated with this rumor, just a few winks, nods and "you bets."

The meeting in May of 2003 with Mr. Babcock took place at the first Trilogy Motorsports open house at their headquarters in Dearborn. The Trilogy #1 was present, along with the first set of widened wheels, and a few misc. hot rods. One of the guests was Mr. Babcock, who explained a lot about the brith and development of the 2003 Marauder, and also announced it's demise at the end of the 2004 production run. The explanation given at that time, was L/Ms need to comply with federal regulations taking effect with MY 2005, which could not include the Marauder. I've picked up more 411 about this, but I will derail myself by explaining that here, and I wish to move on to a specific point.

Also openly discussed, was Trilogy's marketing plan. It was early in their program, but the plans were solid and welcomed. Jerry Barnes introduced Lidio and announced that once purchased, the Trilogy kit could be installed by Lidio at his Mt. Clemmens race shop. There was something else in the works, that was not announced, clearly anyway, because it was in development at that time.

I drove up to this meeting with Zack and Mark (N40GL) and on the 4 hour trip home, we collected all all our individual conversations of the day and drew some conclusions. We posted that here, each of us with our own personal spin on the 411. This upset a few members here, as if we were leaking a secret. It dipped to the "name-calling" level and I never got that, but what else could I conclude after hearing that Trilogy was continuing to market a supercharger kit with plans for expansion, while the automobile it's made for has been given an expiration date?

Well, back in May of 2003, I could see only three possibilities. 1) Supercharger option for the 2004 MM. 2) Supercharger kit sold and installed through authorized L/M dealers. And 3) Supercharger kit available through the Ford Racing catalogue. Have I overlooked any other possibilities? I think not.

The 2004 FRPP catalogue came of 1 Dec. 2003, no S/C kit for the Marauder. Our engines are available under the Mach I lable, and our Megs tips are offered too, but as Megs tips. There is no mention of Marauder anywhere in this exciting catalogue. So, I called FRPP in Dearborn and spoke with the man responsible for the magazine. I'm sorry now that I did not record his name, but he politely, and firmly, told me that "nothing from Lincoln Mercury would ever appear in my catalogue." I asked why and he stated "It's not a Ford."

You know, he's right. As it was explained to me by Steve Babcock, and mentioned numerous time in pre-release articles about the MM, L/M may be a member of the FMC family, but it operates as a distinctly individual automobile manfacturer. They do their own design, and build their own cars. Yeah, it's not a Ford. Neither is a Jaguar.

So, down to two possibilities. Trilogy continues to produc kits and handling it's own distribution. My count here is there may be as many as 25-30 kits in circulation, but I think that's about to grow. If I recall my notes correctly, last May Jerry Barnes was aiming much higher than retailing 25 kits and 10 builds. Much higher. 35 units would not begin to cover the cost of his CAD/CAM design, let alone return the cash investment into the custom built parts. Perhaps this is why two dealerships a gazillion miles apart, both seem to have learned the words supercharger and Marauder, and now use them in one sentence. Gearing up for the release to L/M parts departments? I'd say this is more than just a possibility now, it's likely.

Lately, there has been talk on this board of a 2005 SVT re-release of the MM in supercharged trim. Sure, anything is possible these days. I may come back here by lunch and read "It's here!" But, it was announced by Ford last October, that SVT was tooling down for two years, and it's next project due of in 2007 has been assigned. You can order just about everything SVT offers from the 2004 FRPP, except the donor Focus, which should keep us all busy for the next two years. However, I do not believe SVT will ever touch a MM, remember, it's not a Ford.

My personal disclaimer: I have no inside information to leak to y'all, I'm just collecting the facts and adding them up. But, I've been a fact collector for 28 years now, and I've done fairly well in that role. If it turns out I am half right, my blessing to Jerry Barnes and Trilogy, we all know how hard he as worked on his project. If I have exposed something earlier than planned, that was not my intent. If I am dead wrong on all counts, I'm cool with that. This is all just IMHO, and it's what I see coming our way under the L/M banner.

I'll speculate on one other thought, cops cars. A lot of money went into the R&D of the 2003 Panther frame, the '04 MM has it's own frame number now. With the Crown Vic atttracting so much begative attention the last two years, Ford cannot afford to loose any more of the public safety/public service market. We could see our beloved MMs in 2005, yes. But, remarried now, changing names, relocating to other regions, and leaving this life behind her. This allows Fleet to shoulder it's way back into the salesroom, with proven designs and tested upgrades, and a frame with a clean NHTSB rap sheet. Again...IMHO.

I like yellow, my 2005 would be one badazzed cab...

[Donny Carlson]

I like yellow, my 2005 would be one badazzed cab...
Mac's Livery Service.:P

[Donny Carlson]

After thinking about Mac's post, and reading more on this on other threads, here is my $0.02.

I am leaning towards the "no 2005 MM" camp. If there is a supercharged MM, and this is a big IF, then it will be the only MM version produced in 2005, probably available mid model year. My gut feeling is that there will probably not be a factory supercharged MM, though I sure would like to own one.

I do believe that the Trilogy kit or something similar will be offered to existing MM owners through Mercury dealers. Since Ford Racing won't touch the name because it's a Mercury, then I think those in the Mercury ranks who support this car have arranged for owners to have their dealer install this mod. This makes sense to me. So, wonder what it's gonna cost? And what else is included in the kit? Tranny upgrade? PCM reflash? This could be interesting.

At the end of the day, even if NONE of this comes to fruition, we still have the great good fortune of being able to select from a good choice of perfomance mods and who does them. So, the way I see it, we've already won and anything else is just more gravy.

[rumble]

Thanks, 307, read it all again. Let's look at the opening question one more time.


As I posted earlier, yes. I have heard exatcly this from a LM executive, first in May 2003 in Dearborn, MI. and again in Sep. 2003 in Ennis Texas. In May, I was in the company of 25-30 MM owners. In Texas, maybe 100. Steve Babcock said it to us all. It's over. Done. Enjoy what you have. Y'all can believe what you want, but this is 100 percent to me.

How salesmen and service managers seem to know more, and with such certainty, perplexes me. It's sad to think that a rumor, however strong or credible, can circulate so convincingly, but that's our nature is it not. Truth weighs in, and the rumor is always a pound heavier. This is a problem for me because there are no LM names associated with this rumor, just a few winks, nods and "you bets."

The meeting in May of 2003 with Mr. Babcock took place at the first Trilogy Motorsports open house at their headquarters in Dearborn. The Trilogy #1 was present, along with the first set of widened wheels, and a few misc. hot rods. One of the guests was Mr. Babcock, who explained a lot about the brith and development of the 2003 Marauder, and also announced it's demise at the end of the 2004 production run. The explanation given at that time, was L/Ms need to comply with federal regulations taking effect with MY 2005, which could not include the Marauder. I've picked up more 411 about this, but I will derail myself by explaining that here, and I wish to move on to a specific point.

Also openly discussed, was Trilogy's marketing plan. It was early in their program, but the plans were solid and welcomed. Jerry Barnes introduced Lidio and announced that once purchased, the Trilogy kit could be installed by Lidio at his Mt. Clemmens race shop. There was something else in the works, that was not announced, clearly anyway, because it was in development at that time.

I drove up to this meeting with Zack and Mark (N40GL) and on the 4 hour trip home, we collected all all our individual conversations of the day and drew some conclusions. We posted that here, each of us with our own personal spin on the 411. This upset a few members here, as if we were leaking a secret. It dipped to the "name-calling" level and I never got that, but what else could I conclude after hearing that Trilogy was continuing to market a supercharger kit with plans for expansion, while the automobile it's made for has been given an expiration date?

Well, back in May of 2003, I could see only three possibilities. 1) Supercharger option for the 2004 MM. 2) Supercharger kit sold and installed through authorized L/M dealers. And 3) Supercharger kit available through the Ford Racing catalogue. Have I overlooked any other possibilities? I think not.

The 2004 FRPP catalogue came of 1 Dec. 2003, no S/C kit for the Marauder. Our engines are available under the Mach I lable, and our Megs tips are offered too, but as Megs tips. There is no mention of Marauder anywhere in this exciting catalogue. So, I called FRPP in Dearborn and spoke with the man responsible for the magazine. I'm sorry now that I did not record his name, but he politely, and firmly, told me that "nothing from Lincoln Mercury would ever appear in my catalogue." I asked why and he stated "It's not a Ford."

You know, he's right. As it was explained to me by Steve Babcock, and mentioned numerous time in pre-release articles about the MM, L/M may be a member of the FMC family, but it operates as a distinctly individual automobile manfacturer. They do their own design, and build their own cars. Yeah, it's not a Ford. Neither is a Jaguar.

So, down to two possibilities. Trilogy continues to produc kits and handling it's own distribution. My count here is there may be as many as 25-30 kits in circulation, but I think that's about to grow. If I recall my notes correctly, last May Jerry Barnes was aiming much higher than retailing 25 kits and 10 builds. Much higher. 35 units would not begin to cover the cost of his CAD/CAM design, let alone return the cash investment into the custom built parts. Perhaps this is why two dealerships a gazillion miles apart, both seem to have learned the words supercharger and Marauder, and now use them in one sentence. Gearing up for the release to L/M parts departments? I'd say this is more than just a possibility now, it's likely.

Lately, there has been talk on this board of a 2005 SVT re-release of the MM in supercharged trim. Sure, anything is possible these days. I may come back here by lunch and read "It's here!" But, it was announced by Ford last October, that SVT was tooling down for two years, and it's next project due of in 2007 has been assigned. You can order just about everything SVT offers from the 2004 FRPP, except the donor Focus, which should keep us all busy for the next two years. However, I do not believe SVT will ever touch a MM, remember, it's not a Ford.

My personal disclaimer: I have no inside information to leak to y'all, I'm just collecting the facts and adding them up. But, I've been a fact collector for 28 years now, and I've done fairly well in that role. If it turns out I am half right, my blessing to Jerry Barnes and Trilogy, we all know how hard he as worked on his project. If I have exposed something earlier than planned, that was not my intent. If I am dead wrong on all counts, I'm cool with that. This is all just IMHO, and it's what I see coming our way under the L/M banner.

I'll speculate on one other thought, cops cars. A lot of money went into the R&D of the 2003 Panther frame, the '04 MM has it's own frame number now. With the Crown Vic atttracting so much begative attention the last two years, Ford cannot afford to loose any more of the public safety/public service market. We could see our beloved MMs in 2005, yes. But, remarried now, changing names, relocating to other regions, and leaving this life behind her. This allows Fleet to shoulder it's way back into the salesroom, with proven designs and tested upgrades, and a frame with a clean NHTSB rap sheet. Again...IMHO.

I like yellow, my 2005 would be one badazzed cab...

Sarge, I too was in Ennis when SB told us of the certain demise of the Marauder with the 04 model year. He said, if I remember, that the reason was that in January of 05 new Federal emission regulations were going into effect and that in order to comply with them the accelerator linkage of the Panther platform would be redesigned to "drive by wire." Since the Marauder used the 32 (edited) valve engine with a different throttle body setup, it would necessitate a separate and evidently expensive program that Ford was not willing to do. Makes since. OK?
Now the real interesting thing that he also said was that the Marauder had reached the production numbers to put the program in the black (no pun intended). If these are both true then what would keep some real car guy in the FMC company (not Steve Babcock cause he's not doing the MM anymore) from getting the bean counters to reconsider the fate of this thing? What, just suppose for a minute, that they said "why not use the 16 (edited) valve motor with a S/C making 335 HP like we were going
to do originally? The body mods specific to the Marauder are no problem and since we will have the drive by wire for a 4.6 16 (edited) valve the basic configuration is done"
Now this is all just idle speculation but some time it's fun doing "What Ifs"

Whada ya think Sarge?

[studio460]

At the risk of some inaccuracy in recalling Jerry Barnes' previous posts right here on this very board, here is what I recall . . .

1. According to Jerry Barnes of Trilogy Motorsports, Ford Racing approached Trilogy (not the other way around) about including the Trilogy supercharger kit in the 2004 Ford Racing catalog. It never made it into the 2004 catalog due to the complexities of how they would "package" the required EEC retune.

2. Jerry had confirmed in a post here that Ford was in discussion with Trilogy about the rumoured factory-supercharged, Trilogy-equipped '05 Marauder, which may or may not be produced.

I would surmise that an factory-installed, Trilogy-enabled '05 Marauder may be possible, but that we may never know if it's a go until the latest possible decision point at Ford.

P.S. The above information I believe was all posted AFTER Ennis.

[SergntMac]

Sarge, I too was in Ennis when SB told us of the certain demise of the Marauder with the 04 model year. He said, if I remember, that the reason was that in January of 05 new Federal emission regulations were going into effect and that in order to comply with them the accelerator linkage of the Panther platform would be redesigned to "drive by wire." Since the Marauder used the 24 valve engine with a different throttle body setup, it would necessitate a separate and evidently expensive program that Ford was not willing to do.
You have the valve count coming up shy, unless you're suggesting a V-6 configuration for '05. That's okay, because I remember the announcment in Ennis, but not the "drive by wire" cause, and this is probably my fault. By the time we got to Ennis, I had heard the announcement already, and I may have been distracted from the finer points of the announcment. Momentary slips of memory are acceptable at my age, however, "drive by wire" will be here in 2005, I've seen some F-150 samples in testing. So, this "cause" fits as good as any of them, I guess it's not so important to me to know an exact cause of death for the MM, but rather that it is dead as we know it.


Now the real interesting thing that he also said was that the Marauder had reached the production numbers to put the program in the black (no pun intended). If these are both true then what would keep some real car guy in the FMC company (not Steve Babcock cause he's not doing the MM anymore) from getting the bean counters to reconsider the fate of this thing? What, just suppose for a minute, that they said "why not use the 8 valve motor with a S/C making 335 HP like we were going to do originally? The body mods specific to the Marauder are no problem and since we will have the drive by wire for a 4.6 8 valve the basic configuration is done"

Now this is all just idle speculation but some time it's fun doing "What Ifs"

Whada ya think Sarge?
8 valves now? Man, that's a severe decontent LOL, but I get your point.

I posted what I think, rumble, my essay here is my best, and honest, speculation of the facts I have at hand. I agree though, that anything can happen, and we will be the last to know. Yes, '03 sales put the Marauder in the black, and every '04 sold is sold with profit for L/M. But, that was only half the problem we faced while watching '03 sales grow. Once the sales proved the consumer interest, we knew we would see an '04.

I don't like playing with "what if" stuff, but I consider honest speculation of known facts acceptable. It's kind of like being on Jury Duty, no one knows the truth with any exact precision, and you have to measure the facts as they presented to you, and make a decision from there.

We knew in Ennis that Steve Babcock wasn't involved with the MM anymore, but at that point in time, who would be? There were no more decisions to make about the MM anyway, right? I'm happy Steve has moved on, but who can name his replacement? Doesn't this say something about the MM's future?

I'm not trying to make any major argument out of this, I'm only trying to answer the man's question. I think I have, though I admit it's all speculation, and anything can happen, and happen tomorrow. Therefore, though some disargee with me, I can't be wrong. Neither can they be wrong. The Jury is still out, we'll have to keep watch for their return, yes?

[jfclancy]

At the risk of some inaccuracy in recalling Jerry Barnes' previous posts right here on this very board, here is what I recall . . .

I would surmise that an factory-installed, Trilogy-enabled '05 Marauder may be possible, but that we may never know if it's a go until the latest possible decision point at Ford.

P.S. The above information I believe was all posted AFTER Ennis.

Not trying to continue /start an argument just wishing to post statements made in good faith, In the Post North Texas Marauders January meeting comments by Cruzer, Sonny from John Eagle L/M confirmed a 2005 with an available S/C. NOW not sure who exactly Sonny is but Logan and Cruzer seem to know him quite well. Again this was THIS year not some time in the last Year, but we all must understand these things are fluid and subject to change wait and see would still be the watch word for me.

Joe Clancy

[rumble]

Sarge,
Duh! My brain must be numbed by years and years of sniffing gasoline fumes.
Of course your correct, it's 16 valves, 8 cylinders.

[SergntMac]

Jerry had confirmed in a post here that Ford was in discussion with Trilogy about the rumoured factory-supercharged, Trilogy-equipped '05 Marauder, which may or may not be produced.

I missed reading this post, I'll poke around here and see it I can find it. If you happen to know the shortcut, I'd like to catch up on this news.

Okay...I found this, and I see how so many have been confused on the topic. It's dated two months ago, hopefully we can get an update?

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6497

[nslatin]

I just read a column in my local paper (Newsday) that indicated a much different idea. The guy (Jim Mateja, Chicago Trubune) was saying the CV will become fleet sales only, but the L/M GM may still be available for retail sales. That would leave the door open for the MM to continue.

The number looked like:
CV retail 15K-18K units
CV fleet 60K-80K units

GM mostly retail >86K units.

A glimmer of hope.