values

[steve fox]

Guys, I wish you to consider a point of view related to the resale value of our MM. Although the cars meet the traditional criteria for rising resale pricing such as realtive rarity, unique style/performance and established enthusiast community, the MM seems to have resisted much price appreciation.
I suggest we may be a large part of the reason. Denigration and carping about any posted pricing seems commonplace. Instead of suggesting a proposed value is too low we nearly always say the opposite. Many marginally interested MM owners and prospective owners look to enthusiast sites prior to a decision to buy or sell for some direction on price and value. We seldom recognize their perusal. They do not register or post, only observe.
If we, as enthusiasts, demonstrate our value for the MM by continually supporting lower pricing, many will expect this. Consequently some may buy a nice car a bit cheaper but give it back if they ever sell or trade up.
I think we can influence the price appreciation of the MM by encouraging members to hold the line on their cars value at a higher level than we have supported previously. Over time all our cars will benefit from the esteem we give them now.

[GAMike]

Guys, I wish you to consider a point of view related to the resale value of our MM. Although the cars meet the traditional criteria for rising resale pricing such as realtive rarity, unique style/performance and established enthusiast community, the MM seems to have resisted much price appreciation.
I suggest we may be a large part of the reason. Denigration and carping about any posted pricing seems commonplace. Instead of suggesting a proposed value is too low we nearly always say the opposite. Many marginally interested MM owners and prospective owners look to enthusiast sites prior to a decision to buy or sell for some direction on price and value. We seldom recognize their perusal. They do not register or post, only observe.
If we, as enthusiasts, demonstrate our value for the MM by continually supporting lower pricing, many will expect this. Consequently some may buy a nice car a bit cheaper but give it back if they ever sell or trade up.
I think we can influence the price appreciation of the MM by encouraging members to hold the line on their cars value at a higher level than we have supported previously. Over time all our cars will benefit from the esteem we give them now.

Well said Steve:2thumbs:

[SC Cheesehead]

So, if we all band together and start saying our cars are worth at least $20,000, they'll start selling for that, right? :rolleyes:

http://www.mikeonads.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/supply_demand_11.JPG

When people start knocking down our doors to get at the cars, maybe selling prices will start to climb, until then, see above.

"Economics? 'Supply and Demand.' That's it." - Father Guido Sarducci

[MOTOWN]

I just dont think a very small handfull of hardcore gearheads will dictate what some one will pay for a MM

Just my 02 cents

[SC Cheesehead]

I just dont think a very small handfull of hardcore gearheads will dictate what some one will pay for a MM

Just my 02 cents

EXACTLY!

Selling price is dictated by what the market will bear.

If we look back to 2003 -2004, one of the reasons NEW Marauder sales weren't higher was that many potential buyers considered them overpriced.

Don't get me wrong, if I would ever decide to sell my car I'd like top dollar for it, too, but being a realist, asking $20K for it doesn't mean that's what I'll get for it, even if everybody on this site said it was worth it.

The selling prices for our cars will track to a bell shaped curve:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Standard_deviation_diagram.svg/325px-Standard_deviation_diagram.svg .png
A small percentage of cars will sell really cheap due to condition or mileage, or a highly motivated seller. Another small percentage will sell for a very high price due to excellent condition or a highly motivated buyer.

The rest will sell for a price set by the market, within a defined range (i.e. "book value") which is based in large part on perceived value, uniqueness, and availability; basic principles of economics. And as you so aptly stated it, it's very doubtful that, "a very small handfull of hardcore gearheads will dictate what some one will pay for a MM." ;)

[Haggis]

An object is worth only what someone is willing to pay.

[MMBLUE]

An object is worth only what someone is willing to pay.


True, very true. For instance Steve, after quietly looking and having many people contact me about the sale of their MM to me as in my thread. http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77085 I have found a price that I would pay for your car. Of course, it is what the market will bring, hence supply and demand. It is however a bit more than our previous discussions. Yet these others of which I speak of, have the S/C already installed and operational. I say to you, if your actually willing and ready to sell, I have an offer for your MM. Realisticly, it is worth to a person what a person is willing to pay. So if you wish to entertain my offer, send me a PM or an email.

As far as the topic of discussion, you bring up a good point, but we really don't have control of the thousands of beat to hell MM's out there.

My .02

[sailsmen]

New Rule issued by the President of MercuryMarauder.Net -

"Recognizing the Organization of Marauder Price Fixers, (OMPF), desire to price fix from this point foward no Marauder will listed, advertisted, traded, etc. for any amount less than the Original Mfg's List Price, (OMLP), a/k/a Sticker Price.

Sale of a Marauder for less than the OMLP will result in sanctions against said member.

Sanctions will be enforced by no knock warrants and / or seizures issued by SWAT Teams.

We are pleased to announce Mr. Fox has been selected to buy the first Marauder under OMPF for OMLP."

[SC Cheesehead]

New Rule issued by the President of MercuryMarauder.Net -

"Recognizing the Organization of Marauder Price Fixers, (OMPF), desire to price fix from this point foward no Marauder will listed, advertisted, traded, etc. for any amount less than the Original Mfg's List Price, a/k/a Sticker Price.

Sale of a Marauder for less than the OMLP will result in sanctions against said member.

Sanctions will be enforced by no knock warrants and / or seizures issued by SWAT Teams.

We are pleased to announce Mr. Fox has been selected to buy the first Marauder under OMPF for OMLP."

Oh dang, Billy, things are getting serious.... ;)

[sailsmen]

Oh dang, Billy, things are getting serious.... ;)

As an owner the price only matters when you sell it, borrow on it or in some cases when you total it.

[SC Cheesehead]

As an owner the price only matters when you sell it, borrow on it or in some cases when you total it.


True, that. Found that out the hard way when the DTR got wrecked back in '05.

[Da Dark Jedi]

True, that. Found that out the hard way when the DTR got wrecked back in '05.

Makes you wonder about the value of our cars now, if the worst (TOTALED) happens. I perfer higher resale, but other owners who value their cars think the same. Buy a use car at new car price, have a wreck 6 months later what a finacial nightmare. I think Ins Co only gives replcement value on 3 years or less.

[RF Overlord]

We are pleased to announce Mr. Fox has been selected to buy the first Marauder under OMPF for OMLP."OMG!! That's AFU....

[SC Cheesehead]

Makes you wonder about the value of our cars now, if the worst (TOTALED) happens. I perfer higher resale, but other owners who value their cars think the same. Buy a use car at new car price, have a wreck 6 months later what a finacial nightmare. I think Ins Co only gives replcement value on 3 years or less.

^^^^I think you're right on that.

As for your comment, "Buy a use car at new car price, have a wreck 6 months later what a finacial nightmare..." that's exactly what I've been referring to with alignment to established market values (i.e. "Blue Book"). We may THINK or WANT our cars to be worth more than book value, and because they basically are limited production may have some higher intrinsic value for us, but the bottom line is the market (e.g. buyers, insurance companies, et al) is going to control their ACTUAL worth.

Like it or not, if KBB or NADA sez a clean '03 or '04 MM is worth "X," that's what it's worth under normal market conditions, hence my examples in Post #5. There will be the occasional low priced opportunity, and a few that sell for high $, but the majority of our cars will sell within a given price range.

What it comes down to is opportunity cost.

As a seller: If I think my car is worth substantially worth more than indicated market value (Blue Book), am I willing to forego sale of it at a lower cost (i.e. pass up the opportunity to acquire cash for it) because I place higher value on holding out for my asking price than acquiring cash?

As a buyer: Do I want to buy a car for a substantially higher price than indicated market value (Blue Book) to acquire something I value more than the cash in hand, or the potential to purchase alternative goods with that cash; or, am I willing to take the risk that paying more for the vehicle than market value will be worth it in the event of theft, damage, etc.?

Opportunity cost is a basic principle of economics. The principle applies to our cars, houses, appliances, our jobs, anything that requires exchange of items of worth between to parties (e.g. cash for goods; our time and effort for a paycheck). As Gordon pointed out, "[it's] only worth what somebody's willing to pay for it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

[Merrill]

The only thing I disagree with, when you have a Marauder
you can never "trade up".

[Ozark Marauder]

What do you think? Fair? or am I all wet? :D

1/3 MSRP + (KBB high - KBB low) = Sale

1/3 MSRP + (KBB high - KBB low) + (1/3 total value of added performance parts) = Sale

OZ

[SC Cheesehead]

What do you think? Fair? or am I all wet? :D

1/3 MSRP + (KBB high - KBB low) = Sale

1/3 MSRP + (KBB high - KBB low) + (1/3 total value of added performance parts) = Sale

OZ

In theory, that's reasonable, but again, what's the perceived value of the performance parts to both the seller and the buyer? If the seller and the buyer are aligned, then, yup, SALE.

That's the whole concept of negotation, reaching the point where opportunity cost balances for both parties in a transaction. (If "I won't take a penny less than 'x'" = buyer's offer" or "I won't pay a penny more than 'y'" = seller's asking price; then the outcome equals sale.)

[Baaad GN]

I think I put this on one other post but will add it here to. when a dealer buy's a car he hopes to make $2 MIN -5,000 dollors on a car otherwise it's not worth his time etc to acquire it.
Last week a 04 DTR with 75,504 was bought at $9,100.00 at Manheim Chicago auction. I didn't see the car so I have no idea of the condition.
I need a car and I'm looking to pic up a 2011 Mercury GM with 20,000 miles in the next month or so, their average price run's in the $14-15,000 range. Just the average mercury GM in the 04 year with 70,000 miles is $4,000 to $6000 but you can't get the extended warrenty. So in a way your cars are holding some value but I guess they cost a lot more new than a standard GM.

[Shaijack]

Darn Rex I need to listen to you more. You bees smart. Sell Marauder, you will burn in hell for that. Trade Marauder you will do worst than burn in hell. You will marry a ugly woman that can't cook and don't want sex. She will have her family move in with you after they quit their jobs and you have to support them.

[Marauderman]

All I know is if it should ever come time that I need/should have to sell my MM , well, I 'm gonna be looking out for those fellers in Bib-Overhauls smoking cigars----they are the ones looking to add to their stable ---cause they seem to have more money than sense--------------......

[Shaijack]

Tom for a minute I thought you were talking about me but I don't smoke cigars or wear bib-overhauls. That was close. lol

[ntd]

True, very true. For instance Steve, after quietly looking and having many people contact me about the sale of their MM to me as in my thread. http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77085 I have found a price that I would pay for your car. Of course, it is what the market will bring, hence supply and demand. It is however a bit more than our previous discussions. Yet these others of which I speak of, have the S/C already installed and operational. I say to you, if your actually willing and ready to sell, I have an offer for your MM. Realisticly, it is worth to a person what a person is willing to pay. So if you wish to entertain my offer, send me a PM or an email.

As far as the topic of discussion, you bring up a good point, but we really don't have control of the thousands of beat to hell MM's out there.

My .02

No offense to you but your offer as well as others is the reasons my car will stay with me. People looking to buy a turn key supercharged car on the cheap is :bs:, I wish you good luck, try and do it yourself for the $ your offering :lol:. I feel bad for the people that need to sell the market full of broke ass buyers

[SC Cheesehead]

Darn Rex I need to listen to you more. You bees smart. Sell Marauder, you will burn in hell for that. Trade Marauder you will do worst than burn in hell. You will marry a ugly woman that can't cook and don't want sex. She will have her family move in with you after they quit their jobs and you have to support them.

Do I at least get a chance to pick two out of the three? :o ----> ;) --->:D

[B.C. Bake]

I'm not sure about all this......if somebody wants something bad enough they will pay "to a point that is ". A gentleman offered me what I considered allot of money for mine but I had no intention of selling what so ever but he kept insisting on a sell.:confused: He was a German guy and actually bout a 1981 datsun 200zxs from me cash in his pocket and was insisting on the mm. Oh well not selling. ;)

[MMBLUE]

No offense to you but your offer as well as others is the reasons my car will stay with me. People looking to buy a turn key supercharged car on the cheap is :bs:, I wish you good luck, try and do it yourself for the $ your offering :lol:. I feel bad for the people that need to sell the market full of broke ass buyers


No offense taken. I actually was really close to just pulling the trigger on your car. I infact, like yours the best with the hair dryer version S/C. I was disappointed when you took her or sold her off the market. I'm just not that excited about owning another Black MM. Had a Blue for over 2 years and this black one for over 4 years as DD's. The next one I get will be a fun cruser and weekend cruzer not the DD. I'll leave that up to the my current Blk MM. Let me know if you decide to put her back up. :burnout:


As for the pricing of all our MM's like I said before, it's what the buyer is willing to pay and how bad they want it of course. Keep in mind, it's hard for a MAJORITY of people to just cough up 15-20K. As banks won't give you a loan on a car that old. Unless you the seller have financing available, private sellers unfortunately have it the hardest to sell a car to a private party.

[Bruce Wayne]

FOR SALE 2003 MERCURY MARAUDER Canadian edition 185,500 kilometres $18,500.00 firm

[SC Cheesehead]

FOR SALE 2003 MERCURY MARAUDER Canadian edition 185,500 kilometres $18,500.00 firm


Ummmm, shouldn't this be in the F/S section? :confused:

[sweetair]

This is a very interesting topic. I've watched over the years as our MM's have been sold at some very low prices. It does disappoint me to see this.

I have a question for the group. Does anyone have collector insurance on their Marauder? I do. If so, what value have you determined it is worth? I'll let you know mine is valued at 25K. I dare someone to total it on me. I'll be pissed as all hell but at least I'll almost get what I paid for it when it was new. Collector insurance has some limits like what mileage I can put on her/year. She is not my DD so this is not a problem.

I hope the Marauder holds it's value and only goes UP in value.

[ntd]

This is a very interesting topic. I've watched over the years as our MM's have been sold at some very low prices. It does disappoint me to see this.

I have a question for the group. Does anyone have collector insurance on their Marauder? I do. If so, what value have you determined it is worth? I'll let you know mine is valued at 25K. I dare someone to total it on me. I'll be pissed as all hell but at least I'll almost get what I paid for it when it was new. Collector insurance has some limits like what mileage I can put on her/year. She is not my DD so this is not a problem.

I hope the Marauder holds it's value and only goes UP in value.

Never really looked into collector insurance how much do you pay if you don't mind me asking and who are you using?

[steve fox]

Auto owners. Defined value policy supported by appraisal. It helps to have several other cars insured with them simultaneously, a clean driving record, no at fault claims and maybe a friendly agent.

[Odinson]

Good point on the 'no trade up' aspect. That's it folks this was the last body on frame car. Nothing new will come out. Try doubling or tripling your torque in a unibody and you'll end up with modern art. This design has it's advatages.

Marauders are end of the road for KISS. Totally inelastic supply.

[B.C. Bake]

This is a very interesting topic. I've watched over the years as our MM's have been sold at some very low prices. It does disappoint me to see this.

I have a question for the group. Does anyone have collector insurance on their Marauder? I do. If so, what value have you determined it is worth? I'll let you know mine is valued at 25K. I dare someone to total it on me. I'll be pissed as all hell but at least I'll almost get what I paid for it when it was new. Collector insurance has some limits like what mileage I can put on her/year. She is not my DD so this is not a problem.

I hope the Marauder holds it's value and only goes UP in value.

Good one, I'm going to talk with my agent about this "see how mutch".:)

[Bradley G]

I just plugged in KBB Private seller value on the 2004 has 119500 and it claims less than 10 grand excellent condition.
Since I just spent almost half of that on a new paint job, I guess I'll keep her a little while yet.:P

[BUCKWHEAT]

So, if we all band together and start saying our cars are worth at least $20,000, they'll start selling for that, right? :rolleyes:

http://www.mikeonads.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/supply_demand_11.JPG

When people start knocking down our doors to get at the cars, maybe selling prices will start to climb, until then, see above.

"Economics? 'Supply and Demand.' That's it." - Father Guido Sarducci

Can you re-do the curve? Our economics reflect a fixed to declining-only supply curve. Like land they ain't makin' any mo mm's. The price curve would reflect our historical reality that over the first, say, 10 to 15 years, the daily driver value of an MM drops in the face of new technology. Maybe we are there now. That would infer a declining Price curve with a floor at some point when collector status overtakes daily driver value.

Since price is a derivative, not an input, can we make the value go up sooner if each of us buys another MM and we hoard them for a while? Where's Shaijack when we need him?

[SC Cheesehead]

Can you re-do the curve? Our economics reflect a fixed to declining-only supply curve. Like land they ain't makin' any mo mm's. The price curve would reflect our historical reality that over the first, say, 10 to 15 years, the daily driver value of an MM drops in the face of new technology. Maybe we are there now. That would infer a declining Price curve with a floor at some point when collector status overtakes daily driver value.

Since price is a derivative, not an input, can we make the value go up sooner if each of us buys another MM and we hoard them for a while? Where's Shaijack when we need him?

That's a standard supply and demand model, the intersection point will move depending on changes in shifts along either of the curves. Your points on MM economics are spot on. As an earlier poster noted (and as you have supported with your "land" comparison) is the MM supply is inelastic; but at this point in time, demand is not high enough to drive the convergent point further along the price (value) axis. At some point in the future our cars may acquire collector status, at which point economic theory suggests they will command (and receive) a higher selling price; but we ain't there yet.

Once again, the dynamic of opportunity cost will drive transactions. Sellers will hold out until the cash/goods offered in exchange for their cars exceed the second alternative (i.e. hold onto the car).

Buyer will pay asking price because perceived value of owning a Marauder exceeds his/her second alternative (holding onto the cash, or using it to purchase something else).

LOL on Shaijack. :D Maybe he and a couple other folks can buy up all existing inventory of Marauders and become a cartel to control future pricing... ;) ------> :D

[jstevens]

I think some of these will hold value depending upon mods installed.

I do not believe a stock vehicle is better than a modded one for value.

[guspech750]

Just food for thought. For people looking to finance any car that typical banks won't finance. There are collector car finance companies out there. One that I worked with is Woodside Credit. I used their services while almost buying a Saleen from a private owner summer of 2011. And at a rate of only 3.7% for a used car.

There's options for people. Most don't want to do any leg work.


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

[Bruce Wayne]

The price of my MM has risen since this thread started, I am now asking 19K. !85,500 km