Rain, the great paint killer!!!

[prchrman]

Having owned Ford products all my life and pulling for them at races and such I am having a change of heart. I have been very careful as not to do anything that would void my warranty. I have oil changed at Ford dealerships every time, brake work and everything done at their place. Have pitting of my paint on the hood, trunk and top. I talked to my local Ford dealership back in October and he said no problem just take it to a body shop and have it looked at but I wanted to wait until winter was subsiding. He said it was a hassle to get paint stuff approved but he would try. I think well I will take it back to my dealer where purchased because he is the one who made the money off the sale so he could have the hassle. I take it in last Friday and he sends me to the Caddy dealership because they do not have a paint shop. I take it over and call the sm at Mercury place and they denied my claim because they said it was acid rain. I told him I did not know that I had to buy a garage when I purchased the car. He said there was nothing he could do, which I do not believe. I told him I bought a $20,000 honda 4 years ago and it had sat in the same drive way for 4 years and this $35,000 MM (premium type car not bottom ender) for only 1 year and the honda still did not have any signs of paint issues. When I purchased the car it had some sand scratches on the hood and they buffed them out, this is where the most of the pits are. I asked him if buffing did not make the paint thinner (which I know it does) and he says no because if they had made it too thin it would have spider webbing and it the buffer had went through it would have white spots. Then he tells me how he have got 32 years experience in this stuff. I do not care how much experience he has I want my car fixed. I bought the car believing Ford knew how to paint cars and knew it rains in North Carolina. This is not my fault. I waxed it at least every 2 weeks before the problem appeared so it is not like I did not take care of the car, but we should not have to wax or wash or anything to keep the paint from pitting. He said take it to another dealer that had a body shop and see if they would fix it but not to say he said so. I called the Ford line 1-800-392-3673 and they were no help, zero, zilch, nada, nothing. The lady says if it is not a factory defect they can not do anything any, the dealership was their eyes and ears so they had to trust them. I believe the sm just does not want to fool with this. I say the 36 month bumper to bumper is a rip off. I am not trying to be dishonest or dupe Ford out of money. Right is right and wrong is wrong and they are just plain wrong. If this does not get resolved I will never buy another Ford product, every! If a Honda's paint can hold up I believe the MM's paint should be able to do the same and even out perform it. You might say don't blame Ford, save it, I called their hot line and they were no help. I am going to take it to a dealer who has a body shop and see if they will help. Dishearted, disgusted and down right mad!!!!

[dwasson]

Don't let this go. There is always another level to escalate to. Zone reps are charged to save the manufacturer money, save the dealer money, and help the customer, in that order. If your zone rep is less proactive he concentrates on the first two charges and ignores the last. Mention the Marauder forum and tell them that you have already told us all about this and ask them what they would like you say in follow up.

[merc406]

Do what d say's ^^ and get your printer going and copy the paint problems and remedies down. Their should be a half a book here .
They'll put you off until they see your really serious, the squeeky wheel gets the grease........

[MENINBLK]

Zone reps are charged to save the manufacturer money, save the dealer money, and help the customer, in that order.

Zone Reps, or Field Service Managers, do not do anything to save the Dealership money.
Your dealership gets reimbursed for any warranty work it does.
They get reimbursed poorly also...
Your dealership is Ford's last concern.
Your dealership is a Service Center, just like Joe's Service Center or Bob's Service Center.
The difference is that they SELL vehicles directly from the manufacturer,
and they are trained on how to SERVICE and REPAIR these vehicles according to the Manufacturer's Standards.

Your dealership has the unfortunate advantage here, because they are stuck as your middle man to the manufacturer.
And it is unfortunate that FORD is our manufacturer.
Since FORD has been sued by so many individuals, and has be plagued by so many recalls, and the Firestone fiasco,
FORD is looking to cut its losses everywhere possible.

What you need to do is to ask your dealership to get a Field Service Manager to come out to see your Marauder.
They visit their area dealships about every two weeks.
Find out when they will be there next, and make an appointment to see them.
If your dealership REFUSES to make the appointment, just ask them if you need to call FORD CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE to get an appointment made.
They will shutup and make your appointment because the last thing they want is a Customer Assistance case opened on them.

Take your car to every paint shop in your area, and get from them, IN WRITING,
what the cause of your paint problem is, and how much to cure the problem.
EVIDENCE OF MANUFACTURER DEFECT is all you need to get approval.
When you hand over to the FORD FSM a fist full of estimates,
they will have no choice but to approve your claim.
Your dealership will NOT be involved at this point.

You will be told how much FORD will reimburse you for correcting the defect.
Take that figure, get your car repainted, and submit the bills to your dealership for reimbursement.
Reimbursement can take 2 - 4 weeks.

The most important advice I can give you is...

Stay Calm, Be Confident, treat your Dealership as if they were your best friend,
and NEVER be afraid to ask questions or challenge decisions.

I had a 1998 Contour SE Sport (24V Duratec V6 ATX).
It lost it first ATX at 31,000 miles.
ATX was serviced at Ford's recommended interval.
All Service was done at my dealership.
No one else ever touched this Contour.

Replacement ATX FAILED at 81,000 miles. (50,000 miles later)
Dealership could not do anything for me because my Extended Warranty was expired,
and the FORD REMAN ATX only came with a 3yr/36k mile replacement warranty.
My dealership had no authorization power to approve anything.
So we go to the FSM...

FSM tells me that a 1998 Contour with 80k miles is an OLD CAR.
I told him that Ford's REPLACEMENT ATX only had 50,000 miles on it,
and it should have NEVER failed.
It was serviced MULTIPLE times, yet I still have a bad ATX.
I even mentioned to him that I was a moderator on the CONTOUR.ORG website,
and that I was in charge of the TRANSAXLE forum.
I told him of the numerous complaints and failures of this ATX on the forum,
and I was prepared to hand him evidence of design flaws,
that would lead to the reason for the failure, as well as statements from PROMINENT FIGURES
from corporations that have a hand in the R&D of the CD4E ATX,
and how they correlated with my ATX failure.
FSM ignored these facts and stood by the 80,000 mile OLD CAR decision.

I wrote a letter to BILL FORD @ Ford Executive Park.
I sent him a copy of EVERY SERVICE INVOICE for the Contour.
One of Mr. Ford's Assitants called me.
Not even Mr. FORD would talk to me.
They agreed with the FSM and basically told me I was SOL.

I wasn't looking for complete replacement, I was only asking for some assitance.
If FORD had only payed for HALF of the repair, I would have been happy,
but I didn't even get that.
The second replacement FORD REMAN ATX ran me $2,500.

So I swore I would never buy another FWD car again, if it was a FORD Vehicle.

[Macon Marauder]

willie,

I'm sorry to hear about the hassle you're facing. I used to think I was one of the lucky ones with no paint issues. Now that my MM is about 16 months old, I know that's not the case. I haven't talked to the dealer about it yet. Not sure what I'm going to do...

Logan's repaint looks AWESOME. I've seen Todd's (TAF) in person and it looks great too - but his wasn't warranty work. IF (a big IF IMO) I get Ford to agree to repaint mine, I wonder if it would look better or worse? Seems there are both pro and con sides on this site regarding repainting.

In '86 my dad bought a new Tbird Turbo Coupe. I bought one a little later (an '87) from another dealer. Soon, the clear coat started to flake off of the roof on both cars. Ford said "acid rain" and that GA was one of the most "acidic" acid rain locations in the country.

Dad's dealer repainted his roof anyway and it looked great. My dealer wouldn't do anything. I still have the car, and the paint is terrible! It looks dirty when freshly washed and waxed.

I don't want my MM to end up like that. But I don't want the hassle of weeks without my car and the potential of it looking worse in the end.

What's a guy supposed to do?

[prchrman]

My car was made in 08/02...so go figure...acid rain or not there are lots of cars without pits...acid rain did not start in 02 or 03 and other people are making paint that is not piting...I do not give up easily and that's for sure because I've got more time than money...not ready to cry calf rope yet...and being a Ford fan it just kills me that honda can do better paint on a crv than I got on a Marauder...was looking at buying an escape or a liberty...well this has made my mind up...willie

[TAF]

Logan's repaint looks AWESOME. I've seen Todd's (TAF) in person and it looks great too - but his wasn't warranty work. IF (a big IF IMO) I get Ford to agree to repaint mine, I wonder if it would look better or worse? Seems there are both pro and con sides on this site regarding repainting.

What's a guy supposed to do?I can tell you this...the guy over at Team Collision (the body shop for Team Ford here in Atlanta) lays down the BEST paint I think I have EVER seen. Bring it up here, (down here for you Willie) and I'll hook you up with the Manager, and let them take a look. I know Bob (67435animal (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/member.php?u=1216)) had his hood, roof and rear decklid painted there and he can attest to the skills as well.

[woaface]

Paint troubles don't scare me from getting a Marauder...the second I can, I will.:D :up: :rock: :beer:

[Smokie]

Willie I am truly sorry your dealer is jacking you around. I am having my car repainted not by the dealer that sold me the car, but by my local Ford dealer that I have been doing bussiness with for 30 years. At no time did they fight me, the dealer is the one that tells the factory what the problem is and they will be paid for the work by the factory. The dealer gets paid for the work, so I don't understand why the acid rain story, I have pictures of my damaged paint and will post them if you need them, Javier.

[67435animal]

I had my hood and roof repainted because of the white spots plus my rear bumper cover replaced and painted because of poor paint ALL UNDER warranty; now the paint looks great.

I have a great dealer (Team Collision in Marietta as Todd has told you). I bought the car at an LM dealer but Team Ford services it and does all the warranty work. They told me up front what they could do under warranty and what would be my nickel. No arguments; just the straight goods. I did have their guys do some more work for me at my expense because it was my fault.

Keep pushing and what's right will happen for you.

Bob

[CRUZTAKER]

First off, pleeeease don't take the following in a bad way.

The poor paint, scratches, and blems from the factory should absolutely be covered by the warranty. Blems found up until the magic 12,000 mile mark should also be covered.

But....paint issues as a result of sap, bird poop, and acid rain once you have had possesion of that vehicle for a reasonable amount of time are on YOU or YOUR insurance company. Regardless of how much you wax, it's gonna happen from time to time, and it's not the dealer, nor the manufacturers fault.

I'll admit a better paint job helps, such as grandpa's black AUDI S4, it'll take anything and buff out. But my wifes lincoln, my fiat, and several of my former gm's and ricers were victoms of some nasty bird poop, sap, and acid rain. These marks if not caught IMMEDIATELY, are permanent and un-buffable. I detailed cars for many years, and know many tricks to removing some of the worst blems. Original quality paint helps, but sometimes the foreign matter is just too volitale and burns the finish.

There for, yes, you should have a garage if you don't find natures elements acceptable.

[TripleTransAm]

I agree with Barry to an extent... however, I found bird poop to be instant death for my Marauder's finish no matter me using the whizz-bang cure-for-all-ills eat-your-heart-out-KITT molecular-bonded-shell Zaino products (instructions followed to the T, multiple-coats included).

Does this mean our MM's finish is ultra-weak? While I believe this to be true, I have to wonder if choice of WAX/polish has a great deal to do with this. My WS6 sported several trophy bird poops over a month or two, during the past summer (why didn't I wash it off? Long story... PM me if interested). The car has been waxed with Mothers products since new. Result: no visible damage. None. In the case on my MM, 2 hours of bird poop contact was enough to result in serious finish damage.

So I gotta ask... what kind of polish / wax products were you using?

[bugsys03]

I had the teflon put on before I took delivery and so far my paint is bulletproof except for a couple of rock chips, car washes, bird droppings are no problem. 1 year old still looks like new.:)

[kurly]

In an early thread, I talked about my problem!
Bird "guano" is killer! Until I got my black Marauder, I had no idea how devastating that goo was. :uzi:

[frdwrnch]

I responded to your pm before reading your post. It sounds like you already did what I suggested. I also have this issue but my car is 18 months old w/only 6K miles on it. While it stays under a car port w/a cover now, I did not have the carport constructed until 4 months after I got my car. I figured the 4 coats of Zaino would have given me the "state of the art "protection they claim but alas, it didn't. I may have pursued it more but I don't have a great deal of faith in our painter and was afraid it may end up worse. I hope they follow up w/you. Good luck.

[marauder307]

Sorry to resurrect this thread...but I've discovered the same set of problems on my car.

Some research here on the site leads me to believe that I've been a bit blind...I too now have the pitting problem on the hood and roof surfaces; haven't looked closely at the trunk yet, but I expect to find some there as well. For the last 6 months, it's always looked "dirty" even after washing; I attributed that to the fact that it's just a black car and subject to looking cruddy VERY quickly after washing. Evidently I was wrong.

I'm faced with some additional complications: One, I've had the car through a STL winter---the dealer knows this and will probably try to use it as grounds for getting over on the situation. Two, the car's got a fair amount of visible rock damage on all of the leading-edge surfaces (front bumper cover, outside rearviews, A-pillars, grille, hood), and the dealer will probably use that too. Three, the IMU is still on strike here in STL, so I couldn't get a factory shop to take care of it anyway...which might work to my advantage if I can get a dealer rep to simply look at the car and agree to let an outside body shop handle it. To that end, I've already taken the car to West Coast Customs here in town; they offer a type of polycarbonate paint which they advertise as using on motorcycle helmets/aircraft/and other such objects. After looking over the car, they've given me a calculated estimate of about $1000 to take the front bumper cover and outside RVs off, to be stripped and repainted with the pc paint, and then wetsand the rest of the car, followed by a Teflon recoat/buff/wax/something or other. For the rock chips on the hood, the carwash scratch on the roof, the scratch on the rear bumper cover, and the tar-goo flail-marks on the DS rear fenderwell, they've said they'll mound up some touchup paint on those areas at some point in the wetsanding process, and then make sure to cover it with the Teflon. I don't really understand the intricacies of the process, but that's what it sounds like.

With the pitting going on, is it a good idea to wetsand? It seems to me like that would make the problem worse... :dunno:

[MENINBLK]

Have you tried to CLAYBAR the Marauder yet ???

Wally World now sells the Meguiar's Clay Bar kit.
Get one and try it out before you do ANYTHING !!!

[89VERT]

I'm not sure that Clay would work in this case and I'm a big believer in this product .

Clay , typically only takes off bonded contaminents.

[deerejoe]

The painting of metal surfaces requires the metal to be free of all clinging particles...whether those particles be dust, filings or whatever.
If the surface to be painted is NOT TOTALLY clean and free of particles it will impede the paints ability to anneal to the surface without visible blemish.

Pitting is another matter.
It can occur due to many conditions...from bird droppings through rock impacts.
Any acidic substance; removed immediately or after the fact can leave its mark, however slight it may appear. Some birds particularly consume substances that contain indelible coloration (berries, insects, etc.) and acids which penetrate the paint coat immediately and if in the sun will literally 'bake' into the finish.
Rubbing the 'spot' in an effort to remove the tarnish tends to force the acid further into the paint.
Acid(s) therefore can be compared to etching or blending the harmful substance with the paint.
Note that not all bird droppings have detrimental effects on paint if removed quickly and without abrasive motion.

Surface prep and condition prior to paint application is extremely important to having a blemish free result.
Paint 'booths' must be of advanced design (clean and ventilated) to create a proper atmosphere for painting.
In addition, the time required for proper 'drying' must be in an atmosphere totally free of any ambient particles which could mar the freshly painted surface.

How well these required conditions are accomplished makes all the difference in the final results.

We all shudder at the high cost of re-paint thats done right.
But when one considers the steps that have to be taken to assure a top quality finish; you begin to see the difficulty in turning out mass produced paint jobs without 'blems'.

As for those owners (of MMs) that reply that their (OEM) paint is great...well, I would hasten to add that 'great' is in the eye of the beholder.
Viewed under glass, few (OEM) paint jobs, if any, are without some 'blem'.

Unfortunately, or other wise, some colors just accentuate a blemish.
Black happens to be just one of them!!

Polish it...keep her clean...sit back in the drivers seat and enjoy all the other less obtrusive delights the MM has to offer.
Life is all too short as it is....

[Silver_04]

I spent all of my college internships in automotive paint processes and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night so I'm obviously an expert on this :) j/k. Anyhow, based on what I learned at my internships it just seems to me that the paint is too thin and too soft on the MM. Having a dark car just worsens the matter because the paint gets so hot and is stressed more. The clear coat on my MM scratches at the slightest provication, which tells me it is not very durable and I have some really odd paint wear at the bottom edge of the left rear door sill...the paint is very thin there on my car.

I'd recommend for those of you having problems to get your paint thicknesses measured; basecoat and clearcoat. In the meantime, bug all of the body shops, Ford dealers included, to see what Ford specs for factory paint thicknesses. There are also hardness specs the paint has to pass. Ask for those as well.

But, just to get an idea what you're up against, Ford is all too familiar with how to spin paint problems. LINKY (http://www.3rdcoa.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/htmlopinion.asp?OpinionId=1205 2)
The read is a bit long, but it has a lot of info and gives one an idea how to approach this matter. Anyhow, I like the following quote...
" Ford's paint expert inspected Dunayer's truck and concluded that the paint was suffering from the effects of acid-rain damage and stone chipping. "
Jeez, that must be the Ford failed paint creed.

Good luck to all of you with paint issues.

[marauder307]

Well, it looks like there may be a happy ending to this story. Due to unusual circumstance, I actually found a Ford (not L-M) dealer in STL that is operating; apparently their shop operates under a different local chapter of the IMU, signed a different contract and is operating at 110% capacity right now to take up the slack from the rest of the non-functioning shops. The body shop manager came out, took one look at the car, and said, "Yep. Seen this before...Ford has a problem with their Black." Points at a 2-yr old F150 sitting nearby. "Having to redo that one under warranty as well. We'll fix the hood, trunklid and roof; when would you like to bring it in?" I'm scheduled in for the first week of November. I'll see if I can convince 'em to do the top surface of the front fascia as well; I'm wondering how they'll color-match the tops of the fenders tho...

Bottom line, I didn't have to argue with 'em at all. They're gonna do it, and I worked it all out in about 15 minutes. We'll see how well this works out... :up:

[MaLo03]

I see a lot of us are having paint issues. I thought it was only me.
I been complaining about my paint so long now and that 800 customer service # is a joke. We need to get organized. Has the words "CLASS ACTION" come to mind?