Raising Fuel Octane??

[Marauderjack]

Well Guys & Gals....

I have my "Flame Suit" zzzzzzzzzzipped!! :flamer:

I was talking to the "Oil Guy" in the Motor City and he said an age old way of improving effective octane is to add a small amount of 30W Non-Detergent motor oil!!?? :confused: He says the larger oil molecules slow down the flame front and do a good job reducing pinging and as a side effect provide upper cylinder lubrication!! :o

I was thinkin that some of the California folks would like to try this to see if it helps their 91 octane "Winter Gas"?? :rock:

It is recommended that you add between 0.5 oz. to 1.0 oz. per gallon?? :confused:

Give it a try.....Can't hurt nuttin' ;).....

Marauderjack :D

PS: I'm Ready.... :flamer:

[jfclancy]

Well Guys & Gals....

I have my "Flame Suit" zzzzzzzzzzipped!! :flamer:

I was talking to the "Oil Guy" in the Motor City and he said an age old way of improving effective octane is to add a small amount of 30W Non-Detergent motor oil!!?? :confused: He says the larger oil molecules slow down the flame front and do a good job reducing pinging and as a side effect provide upper cylinder lubrication!! :o

I was thinkin that some of the California folks would like to try this to see if it helps their 91 octane "Winter Gas"?? :rock:

It is recommended that you add between 0.5 oz. to 1.0 oz. per gallon?? :confused:

Give it a try.....Can't hurt nuttin' ;).....

Marauderjack :D

PS: I'm Ready.... :flamer:
:beer: Good Theory However when I was in LALA land AKA ca.
someting about a $10,000.00 fine for doing something like this, What the hell it is YOUR money.

Joe Clancy :beer:

[Marauderjack]

OUCH........How will they know?? :confused:

Marauderjack :(

[RF Overlord]

OK, jack, you asked for it: :D

Under NO circumstances should you add motor oil to your gasoline... :nono: The "oil guy" at Motor City needs his head examined. :shake: Motor oil will LOWER the octane rating of gasoline...that's one reason why old oil-burners knock and ping, and why you end up using premium in them... :down:

I won't even go INTO the environmental impact of this silliness... :eek:

[FordNut]

I would advise against it. But if somebody were to try it, I would suggest using 2-cycle oil rather than motor oil. Risks are present in many areas, such as clogged injectors, fouled plugs, ruined catalytic converters and O2 sensors, and excessive emissions.

[MarauderMark]

isn't that the same as adding sugar in ur tank so exhaust smells sweet?

[jfclancy]

OUCH........How will they know?? :confused:

Marauderjack :(

Again based on personal expierance Spot checks and roaming roadblocks,
they, CARB, have state Police do these. They actually have the ability to monitor your emissons as You drive close. no stopping required.

Joe Clancy

[Marauderjack]

THOSE BOOGERS!!!! :uzi:

Marauderjack :D

[CRUZTAKER]

I was curious why you wouldn't merely use the product called 'octane booster'?
But then I got to thinking, maybe that stuff isn't as easy to find or perhaps illegal out there (cali)....we can just go up to the local autoparts store and choose from over a dozen kinds. I have used 106 boost before.

I did however learn soomething. I didn't know folks used to add oil to their gas....interesting. Not for me, but interesting none the less.


edit: I didn't notice your sig M.J., your'e not in cali....why not use the octane boost then?

[RF Overlord]

I was curious why you wouldn't merely use the product called 'octane booster'?

Perhaps because most OTC octane boosters are worthless. When they talk about raising the octane a certain number of "points" they are actually talking about TENTHS of a point. Shell did a study on octane boosters and found that the very best added only about 2½ "honest" points...I'm looking for a link to that study now; when I find it, I'll edit this thread to include the reference.

I tried using 104+ Octane Boost in my Gran Sport, which requires 99 octane fuel...it did little or nothing...

[deerejoe]

Back in my boat racing days (late 80s), I briefly used a product called 'Fuel Lead' made by Performance Lab. With all the mfgr. disclaimer labels, I was never comfortable using the product. It was NOT legal for street use...and the product was extremely dangerous to handle. Because of this, I eventually switched to 101 LL AvGas.

I cannot say how many points of increase in octane it made but 1 pint of product to 20 gallons of gasoline was the mix ratio. Whatever the increase, it was more than adequate to run my 600+HP Chrys. hemi pickle fork hydro.
My engine builder said it required a minimum of 95 (leaded) octane.
The engine was a basic 1969, 426 cid Hemi, completely machined/modified for a marine application.
It was capable of 150mph quarter mile runs.

[Marauderjack]

Hey Guys & Gals......

I found this on another site and thought y'all might be interested!!


Formula #1 - Toluene
R+M/2.........114
Cost...........$2.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.2 Octane
20%...........96.4 Octane
30%...........98.6 Octane
Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, i.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.

Formula #2 - Xylene
R+M/2.........117
Cost...........$2.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.5 Octane
20%...........97.0 Octane
30%...........99.5 Octane
Notes: Similar to Toluene. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, i.e. from 92 to 92.3. Usually mixed with Toluene and advertised as *race formula*.

Formula #3 - Methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether (MTBE)
R+M/2.........118
Cost...........$3.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.6 Octane
20%...........97.2 Octane
30%...........99.8 Octane
Notes: Oxygenate. Very common in octane booster products. Has lower BTU content than toluene or xylene, but oxygenate effect makes the gasoline burn better and produce more energy.

Formula #4 - Methanol or Ethanol
R+M/2.........101
Cost...........$0.60 - $1.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.3 Octane (Methanol)
10%...........94.7 Octane (Ethanol)
20%...........Not Recommended
Notes: Methanol is wood alcohol. Ethanol is grain alcohol and found in Gasohol in 10% ratios. Both alcohols are mildly corrosive and will eat gas tank linings, rubber and aluminum if used in excessive ratios. Main ingredient in "Gas Dryers", combine with water.

Formula #5 - Isopropyl Alcohol and Tertiary Butyl Alcohol
R+M/2.........101
Cost...........$0.60-$1.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.5 Octane
20%...........Not Recommended
30%...........Not Recommended


Marauderjack :pimp:

[merc406]

It seems like we go over this subject once a month on the FE Forum, with the conclusion that the only way to be sure of higher octane is to buy Racing Gas, wherever you can find it. Around here it's 3.98 per gallon, I know I mix it with the prem. I buy. Aviation fuel won't work in cat. equip cars, which is my second choice, it is sold only to you if you have gas can's with you, and not all airfields will sell it to you, and even with that fuel it's wise to mix with prem. fuel.

[jspradii]

It seems like we go over this subject once a month on the FE Forum, with the conclusion that the only way to be sure of higher octane is to buy Racing Gas, wherever you can find it. Around here it's 3.98 per gallon, I know I mix it with the prem. I buy. Aviation fuel won't work in cat. equip cars, which is my second choice, it is sold only to you if you have gas can's with you, and not all airfields will sell it to you, and even with that fuel it's wise to mix with prem. fuel.
I've been using 100LL avgas for some time in mine, and I haven't had eny problems with the cats. But then I have replaced them twice with exhaust system upgrades. I'm getting the 100LL for $1.95/gal. Considering unleaded premium is at $1.70 or better, it's not a bad price.:banana2:

[RF Overlord]

I've been using 100LL avgas for some time in mine, and I haven't had eny problems with the cats.

Jim, you're right, for only 25 cents a gallon more you can 100 octane fuel, that SOUNDS like a good deal...but unless your motor is heavily modified with increased compression, advanced ignition timing, or altered valve timing, that high an octane rating is simply going to waste. Also, the cats won't disintegrate overnight...the small amounts of lead in 100LL will slowly poison the cats until they no longer do their job, but you may never notice until the car fails emissions inspection somewhere down the road.

Also, running gasoline that contains any amount of lead in a street-driven car is illegal...

[TripleTransAm]

They won't necessarily fail in the manner that they become ineffective, though... most cats usually fail in the manner that they become plugged! That means that the owner will usually be forced to endure months of scratching his/her/its head over why the car is sluggish and is running slightly hotter. Then eventually it starts to chug now and again, and run much hotter. And then it will damn near stumble on a regular basis, and occasionally overheat. If they're lucky, someone will guess that a cat is plugged up in time to save the heads or gaskets from the effects of overheating.

LL Av gas is just not worth it... not for our compression ratios. (the LL stands for Low Lead... not NO lead).

[SergntMac]

None of this makes any sense to me, y'all got this all ******ed up, eh?

Nevermind me, maybe I'm all ******ed up here.

I thought about turning my MM into a Suzuki, just to see what may happen, but I couldn't do it. It's been my habit, since my first "my car" a very long time ago, to add a pint of rubbing alcohol to my full gas tank when sub-zero temps were expected. I'm not sure how this worked, other than to say that my fuel lines never froze up. I have explained to others that this alcohol absorbed the water in the tank that may be present, and helped my cold morning starts. Now it looks like y'all are mixing custom gas, and I cannot support this.

Good luck to y'all, eh?

Add oil to your gas...Bought a lawn mower, did ya?

[CRUZTAKER]

Well all I know is this time I learned something. I will never put any higher octane fuel in my MM than what I had my Diablo chip programmed for....ever.

What a waste on all that race fuel. And I'll never buy booster in a can again either. As far as mixing fuel....if I can't drink it, I ain't mixin' it:rasta:

[TripleTransAm]

I take my 94 octane shaken, not stirred...

[jspradii]

Jim, you're right, for only 25 cents a gallon more you can 100 octane fuel, that SOUNDS like a good deal...but unless your motor is heavily modified with increased compression, advanced ignition timing, or altered valve timing, that high an octane rating is simply going to waste. Also, the cats won't disintegrate overnight...the small amounts of lead in 100LL will slowly poison the cats until they no longer do their job, but you may never notice until the car fails emissions inspection somewhere down the road.

Also, running gasoline that contains any amount of lead in a street-driven car is illegal...
Well, my motor is running nitrous (right now 125 hp shot) and as soon as it's bored and stroked, it'll be a 200-250 hp boost. Now, I'm afraid that with theover pressure the nitrous causes, I am not wasting my money by running higher ocatane gas in it, to avoid detonation. And my MM just runs better on 100LL. At the track I run 117-120 when I can get it, for the same reasons. Cheap insurance against detonating. But, at $5.00/gal, it's far too steep for any other application than racing. Additionally, the only time I put the cats on the car are when I'm getting it inspected. In the last 15 years, not one state inspector in Louisiana has ever looked at more than the brakes, lights and horn. I've never had one even inquire about the emissions system, let alone look at it. I guess here in LA we just don't get queer over EPA regs (except maybe in New Orleans), and we certainly aren't California (thank God). Using leaded gas is illegal in street machines? My....if I'd only known!!!!!!!......:eek:

[TripleTransAm]

Interesting approach to feeding a nitrous motor. Usually most folks address the detonation issues due to power-adders by tweaking the fuel delivery (ie. add more fuel to avoid lean detonation). You're the first I've heard to take the higher-octane approach.

[jspradii]

Interesting approach to feeding a nitrous motor. Usually most folks address the detonation issues due to power-adders by tweaking the fuel delivery (ie. add more fuel to avoid lean detonation). You're the first I've heard to take the higher-octane approach.
The increase in fuel delivery is one aspect, and a given. VP and Sunoco both, just to give two examples, formulate high octane fuels (leaded and unleaded) specifically for nitrous applications. For street use, I agree that anything over 94 octane is probably not of any additional performance value, but I blend mine half and half with avgas on the street (for about a 96-98 octane read), and I've never had a detonation problem on or off the track.:up:

[studio460]

Marauderjack:

Great post! I've heard a lot of the Audi S4/RS6 guys talking about using Toluene as an octane booster on a regular basis. These are the guys that spend $10-20K upgrading their turbos. Could you post the source of that information please? I'm in California, and lemme tell ya, our 91-octane "premium" SUCKS!

[RF Overlord]

Well, my motor is running nitrous (right now 125 hp shot) and as soon as it's bored and stroked, it'll be a 200-250 hp boost. Now, I'm afraid that with theover pressure the nitrous causes, I am not wasting my money by running higher ocatane gas in it, to avoid detonation. And my MM just runs better on 100LL. At the track I run 117-120 when I can get it, for the same reasons. Cheap insurance against detonating. But, at $5.00/gal, it's far too steep for any other application than racing. Additionally, the only time I put the cats on the car are when I'm getting it inspected. In the last 15 years, not one state inspector in Louisiana has ever looked at more than the brakes, lights and horn. I've never had one even inquire about the emissions system, let alone look at it. I guess here in LA we just don't get queer over EPA regs (except maybe in New Orleans), and we certainly aren't California (thank God). Using leaded gas is illegal in street machines? My....if I'd only known!!!!!!!......:eek:

Well, I guess using nitrous does count as being heavily modified, so using higher octane fuel IS beneficial in your case... :D

And if LA has no emissions certification program and you are unconcerned about the legal and environmental impact of running leaded fuel and removing your cats, then I guess it doesn't matter... :down:

[Marauderjack]

NBC....

That has been posted numerous times on www.FordMuscle.com and I think it was from a Chevron guy in California. It is common practice for oil companies to dispose of excess Benzene, Toluene and Xylene in motor fuels (up to about 30%)!! Interesting since Benzene is a known carcinogen!!! :confused:

If they couldn't get rid of these compounds in this way they would have to pay to incinerate them since demand for them is way down.....I guess it's WHO YOU KNOW in DC!!! :nono:

Also keep in mind that your car will perform best and give you the best fuel mileage with fuel octane that allows it to ping slightly on hard acceleration....Anything above that is wasted $$$'s and actually hurts performance!! :(

When I find the exact post I will add a link here. :up:

Marauderjack :pimp: