TCE 14" Brakes Installed

[Logan]

In short, WOW! My Marauder stops like a Indy car. :up:

Todd custom fit me a set of 14" rotors and Wilwood 6 piston calipers and I couldn't be happier with the results!

Like they say though, a picture is worth a thousand words.


http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=503/1DSC01736.jpg

[dailydriver]

Nice! :up:

[FordNut]

Those look great. Was it a simple bolt-on? Did you do a write-up on the install? At one time I thought there was a problem with fitting the 6-pistons with stock rims. Apparently that issue was resolved? Any shims behind the wheels? If so, how thick? Come on, we gotta have all the details.

[jgc61sr2002]

Logan - A very nice looking setup. :up:

[Logan]

There's an 1/8" Stainless Steel wheel spacer behind the stock rim. Other than that, there's really not much to write about because it's just that straight forward an install.

My only advice is to have a grinder handy as some minor grinding is requirement for fitment.

[teamrope]

I'll trade ya mine for yours :D

[Marauderman]

Good for you Logan!

The bigger system is need for better stopping power--as the OEM's just were not the ticket--especially when you go S/C...it looks different than my Baers but I'm sure they are to you as mine is to me--JUST WHAT YOU NEED WHEN YOU WANT IT!! -Period! :up: :banana:

[RCSignals]

what has to be ground? the caliper?

[Fourth Horseman]

Logan, those look great. Did you not go crossed-drilled on purpose? Or are they and I just can't see it in the pic?



...it looks different than my Baers but I'm sure they are to you as mine is to me--JUST WHAT YOU NEED WHEN YOU WANT IT!! -Period!
Marauderman, I'm sure you covered this all previously and I've forgotten so please forgive me. But how big are the rotors on your Baers? Do they make a set for the rear wheels as well? I know it's probably silly, but for aesthetic reasons I really don't want to do the fronts without the rears as well.

[jfclancy]

In short, WOW! My Marauder stops like a Indy car. :up:

Todd custom fit me a set of 14" rotors and Wilwood 6 piston calipers and I couldn't be happier with the results!

Like they say though, a picture is worth a thousand words.


http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=503/1DSC01736.jpg

Do it Whoa as good as it GO? :cool: :cool4: :D

Joe Clancy

[TAF]

Marauderman, I'm sure you covered this all previously and I've forgotten so please forgive me. But how big are the rotors on your Baers? Do they make a set for the rear wheels as well? I know it's probably silly, but for aesthetic reasons I really don't want to do the fronts without the rears as well.I'll chime in here for Marauderman...

Baer Brake kit for the Marauder comes with:

14" Front Rotors - Drilled, slotted & zinc washed
2-Piston Calipers (standard is black) you can also get powdercoated or polished
11" Rear Rotors - Drilled, slotted & zinc washed

NOTE: Kenny Brown also has custom-made, braided, stainless-steel brakelines for our car using the Baer brakes.

Here are pics of mine from the gallery:

Front...
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showphoto.php/photo/1192/size/big/password//sort/1/cat/503

Rear...
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showphoto.php/photo/1193/size/big/password//sort/1/cat/503

Front with tire removed...
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showphoto.php/photo/1190/size/big/password//sort/1/cat/500

Front with calipers powdercoated red...(these are Glassman's and Marauderman's are the same)
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showphoto.php/photo/598/size/big/password//sort/1/cat/506

Mac's polished calipers (my favorite...but I couldn't afford these)...
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/showphoto.php/photo/450/size/big/password//sort/1/cat/2


I hope this is helpful. These are available through Kenny Brown.
BTW...your brakes look GREAT Logan!!!!:up:

[Todd TCE]

Logan has currently the one and only kit of this type.

This is a 14 x 1.10 package intended for the stock wheel. This was an exercise in seeing if we could fit the package into the stock wheel. Minimal wheel spacer was used as on the 13.1" kit.

This fit requires some minor grinding of the cast alum upright or spindle housing to clear the back side of the rotor. Could be done with a hand file in fact.

The reason for the 'one off' nature of this kit is that it uses a very narrow 1.18 rotor (1.18 being the minimal thickness, not 1.10). In part this is the reason for a NO DRILL policy on this part. The walls of the rotor are much thinner than I'd wish them to be. This due to the rotor having started life in a much thicker application and then being cut down to fit the requirements of this package. This in turn produces a narrow 'cheek' or wall rotor with exceptional venting properties.

Next came the caliper fit to the rotor. Being this rotor was cut down from 1.25 to 1.18 the thickness of the rotor was at its minimum, BUT it was also larger than the standard caliper could accecpt for the 1.10 rotor! Soooo, we then fit the wider 1.25 caliper to the 1.18 rotor and properly spaced it on the rotor for this application.

The 'TRUE' 14" kits are going to be 14 x 1.25 and use the CORRECT caliper application: the BSL6 for the 1.25 rotor. This however will result in a final product which will stand proud from the kit above more and thus compromise the spoke clearance much more than what Logan has. As stated in my forum this package will NOT clear the stock wheels.

This brings us to the final question on everyone's mind: can you purchase the kit Logan has for the stock wheels? Yes and no. I'll produce one like it only upon special request. It is NOT what I'd consider 'track worthy' by design givne its rotor. The proper 14" kit however is a fantastic and improved package.

Lastly, the rear kit (the one and only at this time too) is here and waiting for someone to help with final fit ON THE CAR. I've done about all I can do on bench mock up and it's time to move forward on it. Lots of folks have spoken about the need or desire for this one and the opportunity is here for the taking.

Thanks for listening!

[Fourth Horseman]

I'll chime in here for Marauderman...

Baer Brake kit for the Marauder comes with:

14" Front Rotors - Drilled, slotted & zinc washed
2-Piston Calipers (standard is black) you can also get powdercoated or polished
11" Rear Rotors - Drilled, slotted & zinc washed


Thank you, TAF, that's exactly what I needed to know. They look great, and I agree the polished calipers look fantastic. Wish we could get slightly larger rear rotors and new calipers back there as well, though.

Thanks for the 411, TAF!

[Logan]

The only issue I had with the Baer kit was that's it's still a two piston design. I love the look of it.

You should feel the force that these 6 piston calipers put out, it's incredible.

[MDC-1]

These are the kind of brakes you'll need to do SERIOUS open track driving @ IRP Road Course. Stock Marauder brakes won't last long trying to slow down a 450-rwhp, 4500-lb Marauder from 130 mph to 90 mph to make IRP Road Course's turn 1 lap after lap for 30-minute hot track sessions.

For best results, I'd get a set of DOT-approved braided stainless-steel brakelines, Porterfield R4E endurance race pads (fr/rr) and Motul Racing Brake Fluid (dry boiling point ~600 F). These items are probably available @ Kenny Brown. Check with Brad Grissom, I'm sure he'll hook you up. Cheers :)


In short, WOW! My Marauder stops like a Indy car. :up:
Todd custom fit me a set of 14" rotors and Wilwood 6 piston calipers and I couldn't be happier with the results!

Like they say though, a picture is worth a thousand words.




http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=503/1DSC01736.jpg

[Todd TCE]

Thanks for the commnets Manny, but I'll go you one better.

The hoses are included in the front kit as are the rears with the rear kit.
Pad options are much more plentifull than the R4s, which are decent, but we can do better yet. Full pad line is shown on my web page or on the WW site.

As stated however; THIS kit is NOT track worthy as you see it. The "REAL" 14" kit is. Logan has the one off narrow rotor 14 and has been told not to plan on track days for now. (he'll be doing some wheel shopping first)

You are right on the money on the comments on repeated stopping. This is where thermal management comes in to play and the value of such parts really shine.

Everyone wants more hp....I'm always the last one to get a call....lol

[Marauderman]

Thank you, TAF, that's exactly what I needed to know. They look great, and I agree the polished calipers look fantastic. Wish we could get slightly larger rear rotors and new calipers back there as well, though.

Thanks for the 411, TAF!

Fourth--I'm glad Todd jumped in cause I was busy with my family and all grandkids from out of town this weekend....

All your replies are great info for your review and although ours are of the 2 piston type--the larger rotor, drilled and slotted features add a great deal of similar stopping power ..... after all, this is what each is looking for ---so it's more or less of preference and look at some point too....either WILL DO the job.....I know I love mine--just a simple touch and the nose dives....not like the OEM's....but once you get "up there " in power you need more /better braking ....you don't need to necessarily have the S/C level----

My recommendation is stage I- then brakes - then what ever you want next--cause after the first mod --you will eventually get to the "level" where those brakes you up graded to eariler was more than the right move--more of a blessing!!! Good Luck...........Tom ...... and Thanks Todd

[Logan]

Drilling & Slotting a rotor helps exhaust gases escape, but it's mostly aesthetic, I'd put alot more faith in the extra 4 pistons I have over the baer kit thank you kindly...

Nevermind the 1.25" rotors I'll be getting shortly will be drilled too, so....

I love the polished Baer's, but am really sold on the 6 piston Wilwood...

[MDC-1]

Fourth--I'm glad Todd jumped in cause I was busy with my family and all grandkids from out of town this weekend....

All your replies are great info for your review and although ours are of the 2 piston type--the larger rotor, drilled and slotted features add a great deal of similar stopping power ..... after all, this is what each is looking for ---so it's more or less of preference and look at some point too....either WILL DO the job.....I know I love mine--just a simple touch and the nose dives....not like the OEM's....but once you get "up there " in power you need more /better braking ....you don't need to necessarily have the S/C level----

My recommendation is stage I- then brakes - then what ever you want next--cause after the first mod --you will eventually get to the "level" where those brakes you up graded to eariler was more than the right move--more of a blessing!!! Good Luck...........Tom ...... and Thanks Todd
Track enthusiasts worry about tires, brakes, suspension before worrying about rwhp. The old addage about "whoa-power" matching the "go-power" is absolutely imperative for open track driving :)

It's great to know there are MM forum vendors touting quality braking products for hi-hp MMs.

RE the Porterfields. I've had great success with the "endurance" compound. But then again, my car only weighs 3000 lbs with a 240-lb fat-ass "nut" behind the wheel LOL :)

Cheers and keep up the great work!

[Logan]

I used the Porterfields on one of my Lightnings, I loved them, them worked great.

[John F. Russo]

Logan
I have 14 in Baer brakes on my front wheels. I have a two piston style and you have a six piston style. What are the pros and cons of each?

______________________________ __________________________
2003 Dark Blue Pearl 300B (Canadian) (reversed traction control,
mini spare, trunked 6 disc CD changer,clock-in-the-radio,
heated front seats, hood light)
-Born 12/10/02; converted new then used 2/28/03
-16,000 miles
-18.5 mpg at a steady speed of 80 mph
-Stock transmission (upgraded with Performance Automatic
clutches and band after stock tranny failed in 8,800 miles)
-Wheel locks (Ford)
-Badgeless front grille by “Zack”
-Zaino waxing; RainX
Kenny Brown: 6th “Signature Series” conversion (450 hp) Born
3/28/03 (first drove it)
-Vortech supercharger (5 to 9 psig boost)
-377 RWTQ
-4.10 gears
-Baer front brakes 14 in. two piston, vented rotors
-MMX Driveshaft
-Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3 Precision, triple disc, P/N469018-3
-Ford Racing Stud and Girdle
-Pirelli P-Zero Asimmetrico (front 255/45ZR18 99Y;rear
255/50ZR18 102Y)
-Dead pedal
-FordChip
-One coil of each front stock spring removed to produce
the “same” effect as an Eibach spring
-Ground clearance: 5 in.
______________________________ ___________________________
1961 Ford Galaxie, 2 dr. Club Victoria, 390CID, 375hp, 4 barrel (gone)

[MDC-1]

Harder to collapse 6 pistons to change pads?

[TAF]

4 more things to possibly go wrong? ;)


Logan
I have 14 in Baer brakes on my front wheels. I have a two piston style and you have a six piston style. What are the pros and cons of each?
Actually...for a more detailed (and serious response) John...go here...http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=99291#post992 91

You'll find a good (and fair) response from Todd @ TCE.:up:

[John F. Russo]

4 more things to possibly go wrong? ;)


Actually...for a more detailed (and serious response) John...go here...http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=99291#post992 91

You'll find a good (and fair) response from Todd @ TCE.:up:


Thank you for the help

[Todd TCE]

Pad changes are pretty down and dirty. Pull the bridge bolt, push back one pad; don't use the screwdriver (which I know you will- do as I say, not as I do!) and change out one pad at a time. Re fit bolt.

That being said, where are the guys who wanted 'front and rear' kits all hiding?
The way it's looking right now, if the rear kit in the shop doesn't generate some interst soon it's going to be the only one ever produced.....I rose to the challenge and need a working test fit owner for it.

[HotrodMerc]

Todd, i would like to clarify one item not mentioned in any of the brake changes discussed here, to not assume the wrong thing:
apparently there is no need to change out the master cyl. or booster to do 13" or 14", 4 or 6 piston caliper changes?
I just ask because i'm new to Marauders, and have had problems in the above area in my '90 5.0.
Also, since i am ignorant of the stock Marauder rotor sizes, would you please tell me what they are? (I had assumed they were the 13"/11.9" Cobra type brakes, apparently not?) Thanks!

[Logan]

Memory serves, they're like 12" front's and 10 or 10.5" rears.

[jgc61sr2002]

HotRodMerc - Welcome aboard. You came to the right place nice folks and good info. Your question was answered by the one and only Logan the founder of this great site. :up:

[Todd TCE]

Looks like I'm late to the table huh? Sorry.

There is no need for a mc change in this set up.

The change to the six piston caliper reduces piston area slightly for improved pedal feel, the rotor goes up in diam and the pads allow for some 'tuning' as I say in the overall balance.

Stock bias as I have it comes in at 70/30.
The TCE 13.1 is a respectable 70-73% front depending upon temp.
The TCE 14 with same pad 73-76% front.

When combined with the proposed (and yet unsold <!>) rear kits, the bias can be brought back to near factory.

In fact, I can pretty much make this animal do about anything we want it too. There's some real opportunity here for those who might consider road racing the car!

In short; the pedal is solid, the rotor capable, the options many, or as the kids say: it rocks.

[woaface]

Todd knows how to sell something eh!!!

[junehhan]

Pad changes are pretty down and dirty. Pull the bridge bolt, push back one pad; don't use the screwdriver (which I know you will- do as I say, not as I do!) and change out one pad at a time. Re fit bolt.

That being said, where are the guys who wanted 'front and rear' kits all hiding?
The way it's looking right now, if the rear kit in the shop doesn't generate some interst soon it's going to be the only one ever produced.....I rose to the challenge and need a working test fit owner for it.


Todd, what does your rear brake upgrade setup include, and how much will it run for?

[Todd TCE]

Todd, what does your rear brake upgrade setup include, and how much will it run for?

Conversion to four piston FSL calipers on 13 x .81 rotors. Pads, hoses, brackets, yada, yada.

Copied from the TCE forum section:
****************************** **********************
The rears will be 13 x .81DV (using the same rotor as the Impala) and be offered with the BSL caliper while I can still get it. When this caliper is depleated from Wilwood inventory things may get a bit tougher to 'match' the look of the billet fronts. But we'll take it one step at a time.

The kit will include; new hats (drums) and Directional Vaned 13" rootrs, BSL calipers and the user friendly Q pads. Also of course; hoses and hardware. The kicker is the replacement of the factory mounting plate and its 'core return policy' of exchanging the one on your car now. This will add a REFUNDABLE $300 to the kit price too.

Base price of the kit is set. Cost: $1479 plus rotor finish options. I'm sorry it's higher than I'd anticipated but it's simply due to amortizing the costs of the mounting plates to get the kits rolling. These suckers are costly at about $130 each. I'll need to run at least thress sets to rotate into inventory, that's about a grand out of pocket. The parts will be on an exchange basis and your fellow owner may well be waiting on YOU to return the cores to me for the next kit.

I'd really like to gauge interest on this one again. The rears are simply going to cost more than the fronts due to the complexity. I'm willing to offer the FIRST one to a qualified owner/buyer/installer who can assist in giving me some solid feedback for a modest discount price. If you are interested now's the time to call. When I run three final kits and they are on the shelf the price will hold firm.

[martyo]

Toddd: Is there any value to you in a set of stock discs (front and rear) that have about 3,000 miles on 'em?

[Todd TCE]

I don't fish. :shot:

(sorry, couldn't resist, lol. No use for them)

[HotrodMerc]

Thanks Todd, Logan & Co. Todd - do you use an adjustable proportioning valve? After i finally put one on my 5.0 i realized that i could have probably helped, if not solved, the problem of firm pedal but not much stopping power, with the SVO type mc which came with my SSBC 10" rear kit, or, better stopping power but not enough pedal with the stock mc. The adjustable prop. valve helps with the stock mc in place, but have not tried it with the large mc.
- Might the front brakes of the MM's be the same as on the '97-'98 and later F-150's? Thanks, Joe

[Todd TCE]

Thanks Todd, Logan & Co. Todd - do you use an adjustable proportioning valve? After i finally put one on my 5.0 i realized that i could have probably helped, if not solved, the problem of firm pedal but not much stopping power, with the SVO type mc which came with my SSBC 10" rear kit, or, better stopping power but not enough pedal with the stock mc. The adjustable prop. valve helps with the stock mc in place, but have not tried it with the large mc.
- Might the front brakes of the MM's be the same as on the '97-'98 and later F-150's? Thanks, Joe


Can't answer the q on the F150 parts. You'd have to help me on that one. And if so it's hardly that relevent. Unless you can find the rears are the same and the factory proportioning is the same then the overall balance of the car vs the truck is just a shot in the dark.

There's no need in my mind for the fit of a prop valve. The kit does not elevate the rear brake % to a point where a reduction would be warranted. That's of course all a prop valve does; limits rear pressure relative to that of the overall input pressure.

If you feel there's something missing in this please feel free to speak up. I can't say much for your experience with the former parts so it's hard to compare the entire package you had.

[junehhan]

That's honestly a little more than I would have anticipated, but you can never have too much braking power. I'm curious who will be the first person to get this kit, since i'm very curious what kind of results you can expect with it.

[FordNut]

- Might the front brakes of the MM's be the same as on the '97-'98 and later F-150's? Thanks, Joe
I checked Lightning brakes out, thought it may be an easy way to get bigger brakes. Bolt pattern is different, so it wouldn't work. Also looked at Cobra brakes, the rotors are too thin for the big heavy MM.

[Todd TCE]

That's honestly a little more than I would have anticipated, but you can never have too much braking power. I'm curious who will be the first person to get this kit, since i'm very curious what kind of results you can expect with it.

If you are referring to the rears, yes they are pricey. But this is due to the complexity of what it takes to do it as well as the value of the inventory to stock it based roughly on what I might sell. Just buying the backing plates alone makes this a costly thing to put into service. That's why the $300 core charge- I want the old ones back.

Worth it? Pretty hard to say really. The rears will never net the gains of the front. The tuning goes way up when you can use real brake pads however. That's a big plus. The added thermal capacity is nice too, but not as important as up front would be.

Lastly, well it makes a damn nice looking package.
:beer:

[junehhan]

Well, yes the appearance may be worth it alone. If you have just about done every mod that you can do for now, a 13 inch rear upgrade conbined with a 13 or 14 inch front with 2, 4, or 6 piston calipers will like mighty nice! However, what about the master brake cylinder?

[Todd TCE]

"However, what about the master brake cylinder?"

Haven't we covered this already?

[junehhan]

Todd, as you stated, the master brake cylinder would be fine with a front upgrade, but would it be sufficient if you did a front and rear brake upgrade?

[pacammer]

Guys and Gals,

I use the 6 piston Wilwoods up front and 4 Piston Wilwood superlites on the rear of my 1965 1000 hp racing Cobra. There is no better or reliable setup. I have no fade, great tracking, perfect reliability and it is very easy to change pads. I live 20 min. from Pocono Int. Raceway. I usually drive the Cobra to the track with street pads in the calipers, at the track with simple tools I install racing pads. At the end of the day I do the reverse. Other brand brakes are also very good but believe me there is none better than the Wilwood setup discussed above. I run solid vented rotors for strenght. My self and NASCAR have found this to be best. I know it is not fashionable to be missing gas slots and cross drilling but ventilation is the key for running hard on a track. For less demanding performance applications slots and cross drilling works. For now my DTR MM is getting the KVR treatment. When a front and rear Wilwood kit is fully developed, I will change out the calipers.

[Todd TCE]

To coin a phrase from another company; balance is the key.

Just becaus you put a four piston caliper out back does not mean that you have a grossly unbalanced set up. Depending upon the parts in use, AND the parts in the front being paired with, you can achieve the same overall bias of stock. Or if you prefer increase or decrease the effectiveness of one end of the car.

From my calculations you have the exact same bias with my 13 as you do now. And with the 14s only a small favor of the fronts. With the rear kit added the stock %s are retained.

What, why, how? Can't be! Trust me it does work this way if you plan properly. But there's FOUR pistons dude, and the stock rear only has ONE. Yes, that's correct but the area is what matters. On floating calipers you measure one side, on fixed calipers you measure one side also. Trust me.

[Krytin]

Todd,
I liked the picture of the rear brake packge you emailed to me. Budget concerns make me have to pass on the front and rear conversion right now. I am still going to set up the dial indicator on the rear to try and get some #'s on axel float - most likely next weekend. Will email the #'s when I have them. Thanks again for your tiime on the phone!
Paul

[Todd TCE]

Help like yours makes the work rewarding too. Thanks.

[Todd TCE]

Reminder to everyone:

Free shipping (continental USA) on front kits through the end of the month.
That's about $50 off and I might cut you a bit of a deal on some rotor options also.

[David Morton]

Looking very trick. Good job guys.

I must say this though. How much do the rotors weigh? This is not because I'm looking for a weight savings. To the contrary, thermodynamics says we are converting the kinetic energy of the moving car into heat when we brake. We do that by rubbing pads against the rotor, heating it up. So if the rotor is more massive, it will absorb more heat before it reaches the point of temperature where no pressure in the world against those pads will slow the car any more.
The holey rotors cool off faster after a braking event so they work better for those short but hard and frequent braking cycles of circuit style racing. But you do pay a price by reducing the mass of the rotor, so they heat up faster too. For me (on the street) the best bet is the heavier the rotor the better. It's gonna be that one time I need to go from 150+ to a dead stop, now, and as a physics junkie I know massive rotors are the only chance I have to make that happen.
I like the idea of the thread starter on this one. Sorry to find they had to cut down the rotors. Maybe an aluminum spacer with fins could be fitted inside the wheel and used as a heat sink, a la something my Pentium 4 chip is doing this very moment.
Just a thought.

[Todd TCE]

13.1 x 1.10 rotors come in about 15lbs. Less hats.

14 x 1.25 can be upwards of 19lbs. Less hats.

There comes a point of too much of a good thing.

The 13s are not 1.25 due to wheel fit only. Or they'd be the 1.25s also. Just as the overly popular and proven ones on the SS. Granted; 14" and 1.25 is more bragging rights than common sense.

[David Morton]

13.1 x 1.10 rotors come in about 15lbs. Less hats.

14 x 1.25 can be upwards of 19lbs. Less hats.

There comes a point of too much of a good thing.

The 13s are not 1.25 due to wheel fit only. Or they'd be the 1.25s also. Just as the overly popular and proven ones on the SS. Granted; 14" and 1.25 is more bragging rights than common sense.
I will defer my pad and pencil physics proofs to real experience, of course. It's just that my last job turning wrenches was on a bus fleet and we never cut down those drums. Always new and for the reasons I stated before.

Why do you think more mass in the rotors can be too much of a good thing? What process do you think your experience has revealed to you that the textbook hasn't taken into account?

I'm not being sarcastic. I know all too well that sometimes there are things that don't work well when they should on paper. Ususally it's the old "All things being equal" and in the real world they aren't equal. I value your opinion.

[Todd TCE]

Too much mass becomes harder to turn, harder to stop and my of a gyroscopic effect on turning also. Some see this as a negative.


As for proportioning, I cannot speak for the specifics of all the inner workings of the ABS system on this vehicle. Howeve ABS is fully retained and functional on aftermarket kits. Using ABS however to help an imbalance system is a band aide of sorts and not one I support. Proper caliper, rotor and pad selection much more effective.


This isn't a school bus so the mass is less. It goes a bit faster and handles a little better! What's the root of your questions here anyhow? If you prefer larger, more mass rotors that's fine. You simply can't have them with stock wheels.

[HwyCruiser]

By all means get the 14"s, but IMHO unless your planning on running some serious road courses or such the 13.1" x 1.1" front Street Sport setup won't leave you wanting for more...

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=503/1594Wilwood_c1-med.jpg

BTW, a local modder / tuner that installs another performance name left and right thats also popular around here took a spin in my MM and gave the Wilwoods a big :up:

- JD

[Todd TCE]

Yes, and no, but....

You can't do stock wheels on the 14s. Yes, Logan can. He's special! I don't wish to produce another one like it. NOT track worthy.

The 14s will be 1.25" wide and not the standard 1.10 version. Different calipers, different spacing. Different wheels. You'll need about 3/8" over what you have now on this set up.

Really for track use (I mean REAL track use) I'd do a 13 with 1.25 rotors and the full size six pot or the four pot FSL. Both would however take up even more room than eithe of these above. That's why you don't read about them. Never say "can't" that's the way I look at it.

[David Morton]

Too much mass becomes harder to turn, harder to stop and my of a gyroscopic effect on turning also. Some see this as a negative.


As for proportioning, I cannot speak for the specifics of all the inner workings of the ABS system on this vehicle. Howeve ABS is fully retained and functional on aftermarket kits. Using ABS however to help an imbalance system is a band aide of sorts and not one I support. Proper caliper, rotor and pad selection much more effective.


This isn't a school bus so the mass is less. It goes a bit faster and handles a little better! What's the root of your questions here anyhow? If you prefer larger, more mass rotors that's fine. You simply can't have them with stock wheels.My question root has to do with my basic inquiry about the weight of the rotors. Sure, wheel size is dictating rotor maximum diameter but I disagree with the notion that an extra 4-5 lbs. of weight there will make much of a difference in either being harder to stop(?) or gyroscopic disadvantage. The wheel/tire assembly itself dwarfs the rotors effect due to much higher gyroscopic force from the much higher weight and greater diameter. Just off the top of my head I would guess the force would be 20 or 30 times greater than a 19lb 14" diameter rotor. At 14", 15 lbs. + 4lbs = negligible effect.

I still stand by my original statement as I haven't heard anything yet to convince me that less mass in the rotors is better for stopping power. All I'm saying is that I want as much rotor mass as I can get with my stock wheels. Hey, I don't have any real complaints with the car as it is now. But I've yet to put the first 1000 mi. on it yet.

As to your comments about balance and proportioning, of course a balanced system is best. Why have more power (and weight) in the rears than the car can use? And that's in relation to the fronts capacity. The proportioning valve built inside an energizing-type ABS system is there as a failsafe in the case of an electrical or mechanical system failure that would disable the ABS. On a functioning system, the valve/motor assembly is essentially providing computer assisted proportioning to all four wheels.

[Todd TCE]

Thanks for the input.

You asked for the info and I provided it. Whether you agree or disagree is entirely up to you. I simply gave you the facts of the whys and hows.

If you feel the 19lbs rotor more suites your needs that's great. You're wanting it, I'm offering it. I'll be waiting to hear from you today to get started putting it together for you. I'm hear to please.