Dyno Numbers!

[Logan]

I came back from the dyno this mornin', I'll post my sheet up later today, but my numbers are 437rwhp and 417rwtq on the stock Trilogy conservative tune and the big pulley.

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/1DSC01743.jpg
http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/watermark.php?file=500/1DSC01738.jpg

[jfclancy]

I came back from the dyno this mornin', I'll post my sheet up later today, but my numbers are 437rwhp and 417rwtq on the stock Trilogy conservative tune.
WOOOOOHOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You still going to be in AUTORAMA Thurs?

Joe Clancy

[Haggis]

WhooHoo, Great to hear Logan. Are you planning any more mods in the near future? Good luck, now go out and smoke some ricers!! :up:

[MAD-3R]

WhooHoo, Great to hear Logan. Are you planning any more mods in the near future? Good luck, now go out and smoke some ricers!! :up:
So Logan,
Will you car be avalable to test this weekend? Or is it behind the velvet rope?

[Logan]

WhooHoo, Great to hear Logan. Are you planning any more mods in the near future? Good luck, now go out and smoke some ricers!! :up:
I'm really note sure that I SHOULD be going much faster in this thing... I probably will, but lets just say, for now...I'm satisfied. Time to switch back to bling bling stuff.

Joe, Yep, starting getting the car ready tonight for Autorama...

[Logan]

Mad, it'll be behind the velvet rope until Sunday night around 6pm... :) You've got my number right?

[MAD-3R]

Mad, it'll be behind the velvet rope until Sunday night around 6pm... :) You've got my number right?
Yeah... I got your number.... I think...

[TAF]

Nice #s Logan?:up:

I might almost take back what I put in yesterday's PM...:lol:

[SergntMac]

My word, most impressive, Logan. Congrats.

You're rolling over at what, 7 grand? Cool!

AFR looks a tad, ummm..."weird," but not enough to worry more about. May I invite Manny to take a peek here?

[woaface]

Mad, it'll be behind the velvet rope until Sunday night around 6pm... :) You've got my number right?:bs: :bs: :bs: You KNOW you're gonna run out of milk and orange juice before that!

[Logan]

AFR looks weird because with the stall, we're not able go to WOT until we're cruising at moderate throttle above 3000rpm, so we "cruise" up to 3800rpm or so in 3rd, stab the crap out of it and the AFR adjusts correspondingly. In short, it's all good...

[MI2QWK4U]

Thats nice Logan...very nice.

[Bigdogjim]

Congrats!!!

Well planed out

Great numbers!!!!!

[SergntMac]

AFR looks weird because with the stall, we're not able go to WOT until we're cruising at moderate throttle above 3000rpm, so we "cruise" up to 3800rpm or so in 3rd, stab the crap out of it and the AFR adjusts correspondingly. In short, it's all good...

Yep...Nice job! One badazzed MM for sure.

[jgc61sr2002]

Logan - Congrats . You sure built a winner. :up: :beer:

[Marauderjack]

Logan,

Congrats on the Trilogy install and the power you're making!!! :eek:

I've always wondered what a blower does to effective engine and drive train life and I know it has a lot to do with how you treat it?? :(

Does generating this much power take the potential for 200K trouble free miles to 75K or less before major internal surgery?? :bigcry:

Just curious.....Any thoughts from the experts?? :cool4:

Marauderjack :pimp:

[Logan]

Jack, I'll say this. If you're not into the boost, all the supercharger is doing is making your engine a much more efficient air pump. Proof is in the gas mileage. Mine when UP dramatically. N/A, I was getting about 210-220 miles to the tank, I now easily run 240-250 miles to each tank.

I have to think that running 10lbs of boost on a motor with 10.25:1 compression is not the smartest thing in the world to be doing and will lower life expectency, but with the shorter stroke of the motor, the rods and bottom end can take more punishment than you would expect. So, who knows. No one is running around in a 100000 mile supercharged marauder.

I certainly have planned to blow up my motor at some point, as I'm more aggresive with it than most would be, but at the same time, I run a conservative tune and will hopefully get to the point where I replace the short block with a built block because I want to, not because it tossed a bearing or chucked a rod...

Either way, the old addage is very true...

If you ain't prepared to pay, then you shouldn't come out to play. :pimp:

[Lidio]

Logan those are some great looking numbers at the RW’s. I’m sure that if the converter where locked or tighter it would have easily produced a few percent more at rear wheels.

The A/F ratio is a little lean at the top of the pull though. But if a tailpipe type sensor was used, I’ve seen these show a lot leaner then the type I like to use which has to go directly into the exhaust as close to the manifold or header collector as possible.
Plus some of that slightly leaner mix could also be linked to having such a higher flowing exhaust system. To my knowledge you have the only Trilogy set up with a full, high flow exhaust with long tube headers.

I would guess that the A/F is actually in the mid 12:1 area once it gets passed 3500 rpms. As long as the intercooler is working correctly and the octane is there it should be fine but it’s not quite as conservative as I like to see if it is indeed in the mid 12’s.
We can tweaks this obviously.

I make all blower applications typically run in the 13.5 to 14 to 1 A/F ratio at mid to low rpms until they really start to rev up. This makes them cleaner and easier on fuel consumption under moderate driving conditions. But when the power and the revs come up I try to richen them up a lot more. The timing does more damage then any thing when its off. The A/F ratio being a little off will not burn it down as easily as the timing will.

Have fun!!!

[Logan]

Lidio, you're right, it was a tailpipe sniffer (Which they were having problems with to begin with, they had to blow the lines out just to get it to read, so I'm REALLY not placing much stock in their AF numbers).

I'll be most likely pulling the convertor out. It drives fine and launches like a mother, but ultimately, it's overkill on this motor, with the gears and low and grunt the Eaton is making, the convertor flashing at 31-3200 is kinda counter-productive (That is, unless you're into really big burnouts :) )

[MAD-3R]

SMOKEM' IF YA GOTEM'!! :bounce: :burnout:

[2003 MIB]

Sooooo Logan,

Are you coming out to play on the 21st? I'll bring the camera...
-Dan

[Logan]

Dunno yet. Quite honestly, I don't have tires yet, and I simply cannot hook off the line... I'd prefer to wait until I had some meat in the rear...

I've dyno'd, so I know the power's there, but I want the circumstances to be right before I go posting timeslips otherwise certain people like to start talkin' smack... :)

[2003 MIB]

Dunno yet. Quite honestly, I don't have tires yet, and I simply cannot hook off the line... I'd prefer to wait until I had some meat in the rear...

I've dyno'd, so I know the power's there, but I want the circumstances to be right before I go posting timeslips otherwise certain people like to start talkin' smack... :)I see and I understand. My Mama says that the higher the monkey climbs the tree, the more folks see his azz...

[Lidio]

In responce to Marauderjack


I agree with Logan on the engine life expectancy.

I found that any motor especially the 5.0L’s and the 4.6L’s both iron and aluminum blocks will easily handle 8-10psi for a very long time. I know this sounds redundant coming from a tuner… but it’s the tune above all that dictates how long it will last. Of course over all abusiveness and lack of maintenance dictates it as well, but the tune will ruin a lot of parts long before wear and tear and poor maintenance will.

Adding 8-10 psi of boost to a typical V-8 is no big deal. This usually adds about 90 to 140 at the rear wheel’s of a typical 4.6L 2-valve Mustang GT for example.

If the octane is right and it’s NEVER… and I mean NEVER, NEVER, NEVER spark knocked or detonated when being raced or beaten then the life expectancy can be quite long.
Much higher levels of boost even when not detonated eventually lead to problems any way because of the volatility of high boost applications, like 20psi plus and aggressive compression ratios etc…

But certainly milder street set-ups like Eaton’s, Paxton’s, Vortech's etc. When they’re kept around an honest 8-10psi with truly conservative tunes that offer a nice gain at the rear wheels not overly high, unrealistic numbers…. These easily go up to 100K miles on the odometer. Even with the non forged pistons.

The most I’ve seen go wrong on high mileage modern Ford V-8s that have been boosted for a long, long time but not spark knocked, is they start to show signs of ring wear. This will show up as excessive oil consumption or higher then normal crankcase pressures… where like the dipstick pops out a little when the engine is raced or more then normal crankcase venting at the valve cover breathers etc… When a late model Ford V-8 with its non forged pistons breaks one or two pistons with a blower, it was detonated plain and simple and/or lean too. Not over heated cylinders or the lack of a forged piston. Plain and simple lack of a conservative tune or lack of proper octane!!

I’ve said this before here and on other forums and in the tuning section of my web sight.

Tuning write-up on Alternative auto's site (http://www.alternativeauto.com/tuning/tuning_philosophy.html)

There are a lot of tuners who make adding blowers to street cars look bad. They unknowingly tune over aggressively to satisdify their customer and their own ego’s. Only to lead to engine failure… in a very short time quite often I might add, and then a short block sale right after. I’ve lost track of how many late model Mustangs and other Fords we’ve super charged in the last 10 years that are still going strong and driven all the time. Not show cars that just goof off on a chassis dyno every now and then… true street cars that get beaten a lot. Trilogys #1 car is a fine example of how a conservative tune on a blower street application can go a long time with out issue. Yes its only been about a year, but its over 26K miles and unexplainable abuse since that engine GOT BOOST.

Thanks

[Smokie]

Logan congratulations on your new blower, it's putting out some serious power to the ground, question: when you install the trilogy package is the rev. limiter removed ? I noticed that the graph goes to nearly 7k and the Lidio video also goes to 7k.

[Lidio]

Smokie

The rev limiter is not removed; it’s usually bumped to about 6600rpm. On the cars that have 4.10s and bigger I tend to set it at about 7100. This is not a problem for the short block or the valve train on the 32V MM motor. '96 and newer Cobras (except the '03 and up Cobra) always had the limiter at 7100rpms.

Yes the MM doesn’t have a steel crank (like the Cobra 4.6’s) but it is well contained with in a 6-bolt main cap block and although it’s not steel it can take the revs no problem.

The reason I make the limiter higher on the 4.10+ MM's and even Mustangs is; the WOT 1-2 shift can not always be accurately set with big rear gears and lots of HP added. It tends to be off as much as 200-400rpm when it shifts it’s self at WOT depending on whether or not you stabbed it from a role or a flat out dead dig.
I've never been able to nail this but I do get it close. On most MM's with Trilogy blowers the optimal shift point seems to be about 6100ish. I can nail this every time if you only stab it from a dead stop and the tires don’t spin at all. But from let’s say a 25-30 mph role you nail it and it is forced to down shift back to 1st, they tend to want to upshift back up to 2nd at a little higher rpm then as if it were at a dead stop punch.

Like it might from a role go into 2nd at about 6400rpm not 6100. This is the reason I bump the limiter higher out of the way so you have less of a chance of bouncing off of it from these rolling 1st gear upshifts.

The blowers with the stock 3.55s have been very good about the 1-2 shift consistency.

Bigger rear gears seem to make this problem come out the most. Then more power added to the engine and looser converters can make it get even worse. I've seemed to be able to for the most part get the 1-2 WOT shift to happen at about 6100-6300ish over all. This problem really doesn’t happen during the 2-3 shift.

Thanks

[Smokie]

Thank you Lidio for the prompt and detailed explanation. :D

[woaface]

Oh...I get it, I saw the pics in the gallery...behind red velvet. Gotcha.

[Ross]

Let's see, Logan should be able to make it from Dallas to Indy in about an hour and a half now! Great numbers, Logan!