J@S Vampire Knock Control System

[RacerX]

Anyone ever use one of these and how do you like it.

http://jandssafeguard.com/VampirePage/Vampire.html

[dmjarosz]

Ive never tried it but I sure want to know how that magic purple box knows which cylinders are knocking when our cars only have 2 knock sensors mounted to a one-piece cast aluminum block...

And Im not really sure I want my cylinders firing at different times...

[droppointalpha]

My guess?
The wiring indicates the system taps in at two points:
1) Knock Sensor
2) Individual coil supply power lines

By tracking which cyclinders are firing against when the knock sensor signals a knock, the system can identify which cylinder actually "knocked". On paper, sounds logical.

Now, as far as retarding individual cylinders... I'm curious if at several thousand RPM, a meaningful differential in timing would actually induce some sort of undesired stress on the engine...

[RacerX]

Your engine is always under "undue stress". Your cylinders are never exactly at the same compression ratio, same spark advance, etc. Electronics can figure out exactly what's going on within a millisecond or within a single degree of crank rotation now days. Would be nice insurance for 17+psi and some N2O thrown in the mix. ;)

[MitchB]

Well, let me ask you, what's wrong with the factory knock retard? I doubt you would be able to get the J&S to perform nearly as well as the factory setup.

Mitch

[03sport007]

I think it's a cool system. I'm guessing its light years ahead of the factory system. If/when I got big time I see it in my future. They love it over on SVTperfomance.

[Vortech347]

Meh, More electric things to go wrong. If the car is knocking, it hasn't been tuned properly.

[JohnnyP]

Vampire with Snow water/methanol, installed by Autobahn Power on a 2006 Mini Cooper.

They also installed a 16% pulley, increasing boost 3-4 psi. ECU was not re-tuned.

The factory knock controller ignored some inaudible knock, but the Vampire takes over and retards only the knocking cylinders.

Their customer has been running the combination for three years, but they just got around to making this clip:

http://www.youtube.comwatch?v=tjA8xiP d3SU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjA8xiPd3SU)

[burt ragio]

If that gizmo ain't the cats meow I like it. But I am confused. First we grind down the two oem knock sensors for a lower intake s/c mod. Then we spend more money for a new electronic knock sensor gauge ? My question is with the go pedal mashed to the floor wheels smoking wife screaming all at the same time trying to keep the car between the lines what gauge are you staring at rpm, a/f, boost, speedo or knock sensor ? These guages should have built in buzzers. I also need a compliant co pilot to monitor the gauges.

[JohnE]

The factory computer has much better knock control than this thing can do. It's all in a proper tune guys.

[JohnnyP]

Carrying the thought further, you must believe the Marauder knock system is better than that in the Siemens ECU supplied in the '06 Mini Cooper.

[JohnE]

The Siemens PCM is probably much better than the EEC-V. Ford switched to them as well after production of the marauder. However, an add-on system is not able to correct spark in real time, without side effects. Knock control needs to be integrated into the powertrain controller to be done right.

[TooManyFords]

All knock detection systems are reactive, and the vampire system appears to do exactly what it claims it does. I've looked into the system and spoke with the developer and the theory is sound. There is test data to back it up. However, I am not one to run my motor on the edge like that all the time. I would use it as a tuning tool; find the edge where it starts to kick in and then back off till it no longer appears to affect the tune. Where it really helps is when you have questionable fuel in your system for whatever you tuned for. Raise your hand if you've ever gotten a tank of 87 instead of the labeled 91. This is where the Vampire would pay for itself.

[JohnE]

29994

Here's the factory knock sensor installed on an iron block. Initially blower noises are causing false detection. I'll see if I can tune them out.



If a piggy back cuts spark or fuel when in closed loop fuel, expect some issues.



John

[RacerX]

The factory computer has much better knock control than this thing can do. It's all in a proper tune guys.
Not really. You need to consider that the Ford PCM sees engine pinging and pulls global timing. This system listens to each individual cylinder and will pull timing on just that cylinder and just enough to prevent any detonation. It's really slick.

[JohnnyP]

Autobahn just posted another clip, this one on an Eclipse. They cut the run short when their radar detector went off:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUy3EvyxNqI&feature=plcp

Looks like they are in "Retard All" mode, versus individual cylinder retard.

The gauge shows one LED flashing a lot. That's a new feature I added to the software that shows when knock retard is disabled.

It turns on the 5th LED if it sees more than five inches of vacuum or less than 1750 RPM. It also turns on if there is a fault, such as no trigger from one of the coils, or if it detects an internal short in one of the coil drivers.

More than five inches vacuum disables the unit to prevent false retard due to piston slap on decel or light loads.

JohnP

[JohnE]

Both Marauder year model EEC-V's have the ability to do individual cylinder knock control. There's a switch in the calibration. However, the 04's do a better job with dual sensors.

[RacerX]

Both Marauder year model EEC-V's have the ability to do individual cylinder knock control. There's a switch in the calibration. However, the 04's do a better job with dual sensors.
Gotcha. CPS (crank and cam sensor) must be able to tell which cylinder is firing at the time of knock or pre-knock condition. I stand corrected. :beer:

[JohnnyP]

No cops this time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy79EiscsEw

Autobahn said they are in individual cylinder mode.

Knock retard is disabled below 1750 RPM or if there is more than five inches of vacuum. Updated software turns on the 5th LED when knock retard is disabled.

Looks like it's blinking in the video but that's related to the frame rate.

[boatmangc]

Mercury Verado outboards (s/c) inline 6 cylinders have 2 knock sensors and can and does retard timing per individual cylinder.
I see a lot of what was once 91-93 octane fuel that was not stabilized and that has set in a boat in 90+ degree weather vented to atmosphere for 6 months that shouldn't run a lawn mower
I can watch timing fluctuate 12-14 degrees at 6000 RPMs between cylinders.
If it wasn't for this feature I would be doing a lot of rebuilds.
Works really well. I wouldn't doubt this one at all but like toomanyfords said I would only use it as a tuning aid.

[bugsyc]

It sounds like a great tuning tool as well as a safety tool.Sounds like just the thing for nitrous users. The price is a bit high but,like the man says....if it stops one detonation and saves your motor,it's worth it..considering buying one.

[bugsyc]

Both Marauder year model EEC-V's have the ability to do individual cylinder knock control. There's a switch in the calibration. However, the 04's do a better job with dual sensors.
If that's the case,why do we have motors detonating???

[JohnnyP]

Four year old thread on modularfords about it. One of the SCT tuners talks about the problems Ford had getting it to work:

http://www.modularfords.com/f10/knock-sensor-88805/index2.html#post1128942