Doh! New water pump at 10,400 miles

[Fourth Horseman]

Been smelling coolant lately whenever I pull into my garage. Visual inspections didn't show any leaking but the coolant level had dropped a bit in the overflow bottle. Two days ago I noticed coolant on the floor and quite a bit missing from the bottle. I was also hearing cavatation in my heater core. I had thought maybe there was just some air in the system from having my thermostat replaced. Nope. It was from losing coolant. By today it was leaking out of the water pump in impressive quantities.

Warranty replacement took a couple of hours and I'm back on the road. No big deal, water pumps are an easy replace. My only gripe is that it happened with less than 11,000 miles on the clock.

Points to my dealership for letting me supervise the removal and replacement in the work area. Never had them offer that before. The mechanic was an older gentleman and did a nice job.

Anyway, don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I thought I'd take a moment to share my continued annoyance at Ford quality. In <11,000 miles I've had: leaking power steering hoses, improperly mounted sub woofer, defective throttle cable (which lead to a stuck throttle at highway speed), popping/squeeking right-rear body mount, and now a bad water pump. None of these are show-stoppers, but they continue a trend I saw in my '97 T-Bird V8 Sport, and are kind of a bummer. I'm really glad I bought the extended warranty. I have a feeling I'm going to need it. :)

[TAF]

Shoot that thing!!!:uzi:

Man..I can't believe you've had something else go wrong...by the time your warrantee is up...you're going to have a brand new car again.:up:

[Bigdogjim]

Look on the bright side:) Dealership is working with you:)

Trust me it means a LOT!!!

[sailsmen]

Sorry to hear. I am convinced that Ford cut back on quality after they recaptitalized and the firestone tire debacle.

What is your build date?

I had a '97 Grand Marquis for 4 years and 55+K miles with the following problems all fixed under warranty;
air bag leak, replaced air bag
drivers door sag, wacked the hinge to fix
trans slippage, fixed with better trans fluid.

The paint, leather and carpet quality on the GM were better than the MM.

Fortunately a very short list for the MM in 18k;
bad air bag wire connector
squeaky seat
balky reverse shift - fixed it'self

For the 2001 E150 in 40k;
2 bad COP (coils)
1 bad fuel pump
1 bad trans
front brake pads lasted 14K miles resulting in ruined rotors, replacement pads lasted 26k miles
1 bad steering colum bearing
trans is exhibiting same symptoms, ssupect it will be replaced soon

[merc]

Look on the bright side:) Dealership is working with you:)

Trust me it means a LOT!!!

As usual Big dog you are very right. My relationship with the dealer has made my Marauder experience worth the time and money. Even today I was in for service and my Service Manager asked, “When do you want to schedule an appointment to put those Kook headers on”. Man oh man, a Mod friendly Service manager. I must have died and was resurrected in Mercury Heaven. :bounce:

[TripleTransAm]

Warranty replacement took a couple of hours and I'm back on the road. No big deal, water pumps are an easy replace. My only gripe is that it happened with less than 11,000 miles on the clock.


You're experiencing the fallout from having had your car in a body shop, that's all.

The fine dust from the sanding that goes on in a body shop gets EVERYWHERE and will do a number on alternators, water pumps, and/or power steering pumps in short order. Every car I've ever had in a body shop for whatever little job that took more than a day has munched one of the above items within a year (usually within the first 4-6 months, actually).

Keep an eye on the rest of your rotating assemblies under the hood over the next few months... alternator whine, power steering screech, etc. If nothing goes within the next few months, you should be good to go.

[Fourth Horseman]

You're experiencing the fallout from having had your car in a body shop, that's all.


Really? How could the dust get into the cooling system? I could understand maybe the alternator, but a closed, presurized system? I will definitely do as you suggest and keep a closer eye on things under the hood, but I must admit that I'm a bit skeptical about this.

As to my dealer, they're most definitely NOT mod friendly, but they've been good to work with otherwise. Being allowed back in the shop was great. I'd have helped the mechanic if I wasn't afraid of being a pain in his arse while he was working on my baby. :)

[TripleTransAm]

Really? How could the dust get into the cooling system?


Not into the cooling system itself, but into the tight spots where the seals would be. The action of the rotating parts against the seals with this dust in the picture will eat the seals up. A weeping water pump is usually indicative of the seals having gone south... that's usually how water pumps fail and begin to leak out of that hole. (Unless you are a black 1987 GTA... in that case, you fail by clacking up a g*damned storm under the hood, and allowing the pump shaft to actually rock a significant amount when human hands tug at it side to side, all the while not leaking ONE BIT of coolant, just to p*ss off your owner with a nice surprise).

A co-worker of mine recently had some body work done on his otherwise immaculate 1985 Mercedes 300D, in order to address some minor rust bubbles on the lower valence and to address some missing damaged clear coat on the hood. Knowing about the dreaded body shop dust issue, he took great pains to shield these components as much as he could, and washed the daylights out of his engine once the car was done. No deal... 6 months later it was a new water pump for him too.

Edit: of course, one should never discount the possibility that it was plain and simple component failure... it's just that I've seen the trend so clearly thus far.

[merc406]

Never heard of that one before tta, but anything is possible, I guess.

[Mark McQuaide]

You're experiencing the fallout from having had your car in a body shop, that's all.


Wow...The wife's Mountaineer had to have the hood repainted due to vandalism, and for months now the alternator makes a loud RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR sound. Interesting.

[Marauderman]

Been smelling coolant lately whenever I pull into my garage. Visual inspections didn't show any leaking but the coolant level had dropped a bit in the overflow bottle. Two days ago I noticed coolant on the floor and quite a bit missing from the bottle. I was also hearing cavatation in my heater core. I had thought maybe there was just some air in the system from having my thermostat replaced. Nope. It was from losing coolant. By today it was leaking out of the water pump in impressive quantities.

Warranty replacement took a couple of hours and I'm back on the road. No big deal, water pumps are an easy replace. My only gripe is that it happened with less than 11,000 miles on the clock.

Points to my dealership for letting me supervise the removal and replacement in the work area. Never had them offer that before. The mechanic was an older gentleman and did a nice job.

Anyway, don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I thought I'd take a moment to share my continued annoyance at Ford quality. In <11,000 miles I've had: leaking power steering hoses, improperly mounted sub woofer, defective throttle cable (which lead to a stuck throttle at highway speed), popping/squeeking right-rear body mount, and now a bad water pump. None of these are show-stoppers, but they continue a trend I saw in my '97 T-Bird V8 Sport, and are kind of a bummer. I'm really glad I bought the extended warranty. I have a feeling I'm going to need it. :)

Sorry to hear about this --and your T-Bird--- Don't know if it's just the un-luck of the draw or what --but I'm at 11K and no problems --maybe I just can't hear them over the S/C music in the cabin....That's all I can hear now anyway--so it's up to visual from now on---as for the T-Bird--wife has same car and w/42K on her and a stage 1--NO problems so far......wish you the best !!! Tom

[Rep12]

Been smelling coolant lately whenever I pull into my garage. Visual inspections didn't show any leaking but the coolant level had dropped a bit in the overflow bottle. Two days ago I noticed coolant on the floor and quite a bit missing from the bottle. I was also hearing cavatation in my heater core. I had thought maybe there was just some air in the system from having my thermostat replaced. Nope. It was from losing coolant. By today it was leaking out of the water pump in impressive quantities.

Warranty replacement took a couple of hours and I'm back on the road. No big deal, water pumps are an easy replace. My only gripe is that it happened with less than 11,000 miles on the clock.

Points to my dealership for letting me supervise the removal and replacement in the work area. Never had them offer that before. The mechanic was an older gentleman and did a nice job.

Anyway, don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I thought I'd take a moment to share my continued annoyance at Ford quality. In <11,000 miles I've had: leaking power steering hoses, improperly mounted sub woofer, defective throttle cable (which lead to a stuck throttle at highway speed), popping/squeeking right-rear body mount, and now a bad water pump. None of these are show-stoppers, but they continue a trend I saw in my '97 T-Bird V8 Sport, and are kind of a bummer. I'm really glad I bought the extended warranty. I have a feeling I'm going to need it. :)


Well, this post was the straw that broke the MM's back. I've been researching the MM for a few weeks now. Even been to several dealers, drove a few MMs, got prices and picked a color. But - there was a nagging feeling about the whole thing...and you know why? I've been reading the posts at this web site and honestly there are too many problems with this car, that's why. From bad paint to hard start and all in between, the cars quality has issues. Well, Ford...I should have known. I've had 3 BMW's in the past twenty years, from a 320i to a 318i to a 535is and not one of them were plagued with the problems these brand new MMs have. I drove all three of them to the 200,000 mile range (the 535i had 267,000) and basically put gas in the them and changed the oil and tires. Nothing, nada, was ever an issue. Just drove 'em.

So, farewell MM owners and I wish you all well and good luck with your beautiful MMs. And thank you, Logan, for this site. It helped me to decide to wait for the new 645i.

Adios,

Dave

[MM03MOK]

So, farewell MM owners and I wish you all well and good luck with your beautiful MMs. And thank you, Logan, for this site. It helped me to decide to wait for the new 645i.

Adios,

DaveDave, let me just say that for every issue some owners have had, there are many more owners that haven't had issues - any issues. With over 1,400 Members, only 184 have posted 100 or more times. Of that 184, it's a very small percentage that post about issues. There are hundreds that never post at all.

Even in sub-zero weather, my car has started daily on the first try - EVERY TIME!! Now that you've done your research through this site, you are all the more savvy a consumer. Don't let the stated issues with some cars stand in the way of owning such a remarkable automobile! Just my .02c. :D

Bunny!!

[bugsys03]

you can probly buy 2 MM's for what that beemer will cost, at least you can still drive 1 while the other is in the shop:beer:

[Marauderman]

Dave, let me just say that for every issue some owners have had, there are many more owners that haven't had issues - any issues. With over 1,400 Members, only 184 have posted 100 or more times. Of that 184, it's a very small percentage that post about issues. There are hundreds that never post at all.

Even in sub-zero weather, my car has started daily on the first try - EVERY TIME!! Now that you've done your research through this site, you are all the more savvy a consumer. Don't let the stated issues with some cars stand in the way of owning such a remarkable automobile! Just my .02c. :D

Bunny!!
I agree^^^^^^^^^^^^^ as said above--and my post before that earlier------should have made her point even more clear-----I'm not so sure the research stated was ----research--cause we all know the MM is overall w/o problems--we are just pickey.............

[jgc61sr2002]

Dave - Sorry to see you go. Most of us MM owners have had no problems at all. Because of this great site there is a total informational exchange. IMO You weren't sure what type of vehicle you wanted and have decided to use the problems that some have had not to buy the Marauder. But to each his/her own. Good luck. Just my two cents. :rock:

[TripleTransAm]

I've had 3 BMW's in the past twenty years, from a 320i to a 318i to a 535is and not one of them were plagued with the problems these brand new MMs have.


Dave, I hope you're still around to read this reply.

If you were lumping the Marauder with BMWs as a candidate for purchase, you're probably not going to be happy with the car. I don't intend this to be an insult, but you would probably be in here some 1-2 months down the road after your purchase of a new MM and would be complaining of:


Excessive exhaust rumble
overly stiff ride
overly large dimensions, making it hard to park
harsh downshifts from 4th gear (OD) to 2nd at highway speeds
no DVD navigational system with voice control
No built-in phone integrated with the steering wheel controls
power windows that require pushing a button to actuate
etc.


Like I said, please don't take this harshly. But you're not a potential MM owner... you were looking at it for all the wrong reasons.

In a month, my ultra-reliable Civic will go away, leaving me with my MM as the all-purpose vehicle. I've been very vocal about my problems with this vehicle, and things should be smooth-sailing from now on. Truth is, I've been seduced by the car's personality... if you're looking for a BMW, you wouldn't be in tune with this personality. Best to move on, and save yourself the hassle of having to sell the car 2 months into ownership at a huge loss to yourself.

And with regards to the new BMW, I wish you luck. Word on the street is not good regarding late model quality. I hope you never have to submit your new Beemer to the hands of a body shop man, you might find BMW alternator and water pump seals to be equally allergic to putty dust. Try to be nice when b*tching about that on the BMW board.

[Fourth Horseman]

Not into the cooling system itself, but into the tight spots where the seals would be. The action of the rotating parts against the seals with this dust in the picture will eat the seals up. A weeping water pump is usually indicative of the seals having gone south... that's usually how water pumps fail and begin to leak out of that hole. (Unless you are a black 1987 GTA... in that case, you fail by clacking up a g*damned storm under the hood, and allowing the pump shaft to actually rock a significant amount when human hands tug at it side to side, all the while not leaking ONE BIT of coolant, just to p*ss off your owner with a nice surprise).


Wow. Well, I guess I just underestimated how fine the dust is. Not that the water pump was a big deal, but all the same I wish I would have hosed down the engine compartment and flushed my cooling system as soon as I got it back. Next time I have any work done I'll do that for sure, just to be safe.

Thanks for the info, TTA!

[rumble]

So, farewell MM owners and I wish you all well and good luck with your beautiful MMs. And thank you, Logan, for this site. It helped me to decide to wait for the new 645i.
Adios,
Dave[/QUOTE]


Interesting comment. Having previously, several years ago, been a Fixed Ops manager at a BMW franchise I can tell you this, I have many fine friends that drive BMWs and many fine friends that drive Marauders and my wife drives a twin turbo Audi A6. One thing that stands out is these people are looking for different things in their cars. 3T's
is correct, you have no business driving a Marauder. Believe me you'll be much happier if you go back to your BMW. No offense my friend but my experience with many fine BMW owners tells me that you probably "won't get it" with the MM.
Happy trails.

[Fourth Horseman]

So, farewell MM owners and I wish you all well and good luck with your beautiful MMs. And thank you, Logan, for this site. It helped me to decide to wait for the new 645i.

Well Dave, I certainly didn't mean to scare you off. For what it's worth, I think it's an overall quality problem with Ford and not just the MM. Or maybe I'm just the most unlucky SOB on the planet, even though I'm religious about maintaining my vehicles and don't push them 1/2 as hard as some people I know (and some on this board, I'm sure).

Many people here have experienced no problems at all. So I think you should consider that.

Also worth consideration: Even with the handfull of troubles I've had with the car (and with my previous Ford car) I would still buy this car again. There's just simply nothing else out there like it. And all of the problems I have had are fairly petty. I've never had anything that I would consider serious. Annoying? Yes. Serious? Not at all. Hell, I could have changed the water pump myself, I was just too lazy, and that's what a warranty is for, right? :)

Am I a Ford fan? Nope. Not any more. But I am a MM fan. To the end. :)

Anyway, I certainly respect your decision. Good luck with whatever you choose to drive!

[Haggis]

I have at this time have expericenced no problems with my Marauder. Then again mine is not a daily driver and yes I have less then 2500 miles on her. But, I am also taking steps to prevent potential problems from happening after reading what some of the other Marauder owners have expericened.

Take this second how ever you will. I live in the D.C. area and I see BMW drivers everyday and if that is the crowd you want to belong to then fine. My mother always told me if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything. Well Good-bye.

To all my fellow Marauder Euthanists I do apologize, but if he wants a Beemer over a Marauder as Steve says:

Like I said, please don't take this harshly. But you're not a potential MM owner... you were looking at it for all the wrong reasons.

[kurly]

I love my Marauder! :banana2:
Not a day goes by that she doesn't get a look or praise.
If she has warts, I will gladly take care of them!
I am a Sr Eng Cost Analyst at Bosch, and have numerous complements from my German friends and associates as well as everyone else.
She is so :cool4: cool!

[Fourth Horseman]

Hey, sorry for the downer thread, team. Guess I got a little b*tchy there.
:nono:

I should say that, assuming TTA is correct and my water pump failure was body-shop related (and I certainly can't discount that possibility), then the only problems I've had with my car were all assembly related. As my car was one of the first that rolled off the line, that is likely the cause. In future if I ever buy a brand new vehicle model I'll wait half a year to a year before I purchase. Better to let the assembly folks work the bugs out first.

Anyway, sorry if I came off too negative earlier.

[Redster]

I don't think you can compare the MM to the bimmers. They are two different things. Can you find a bimmer with the same performance plus the room of the MM for under 30K? I don't think so.
Hey, I love my Audi, but I don't try to compare it to the MM.

[Haggis]

Anyway, sorry if I came off too negative earlier.

No problem, you have every right too be down. But, you know how to deal with it. Every one will have a problem with their car, whether it is a small problem or a major one no matter what the make. All we can do is take steps to prevent the the ones we know about from happening and hope that if something does happen that it will be covered under warranty.

[TripleTransAm]

Well said, Haggis.
Silencing ourselves out of fear of scaring off a potential buyer would be a disservice to the Marauder community. The collective experience within the group serves as a safety net for us all, and for future owners. Think of it this way... we're keeping Ford honest. No more "sorry sir, they ALL do that" or "that's normal behaviour" or "you've put too many miles on your car in a short time". Strength in numbers. We paid for our right to expect eventual perfection and our right to complain when we haven't received it.

Anyone who is truly interested in learning about this automobile will see the positive posts and not only the negative ones. And there is no shortage of the positive ones on this site!

[Merc-O-matic]

No 645i here!
Mercury Marauder stays....even though
I would have liked the clock in the dash
and a full-sized spare. :rasta:

Gotta Love It!

[gilby04]

I wonder why a BMW owner would bother to research a MM ?
I wonder if a MM caught the eye of a BMW owner ?
I wonder if a BMW owner was dissatisfied with BMWs ?
I wonder why a BMW owner would deliberately bid us adios ?
I wonder what's on the mind of a BMW owner ?
I wonder way too much !

[sailsmen]

My family has owned the following BMW's, I over saw the maintenance and repairs on all of them;
1972 2002 purchased from a family friend and coworker
1975 2002 purchsed new
1977 535 purchased new
1980 528 purchsaed new
1979 320 purchased new.

I was an active member of the BMW club, rebuilt a 4 cylinder and a 6 cylinder. Performed numerous performance mods, all done by me.

The best was the 1972 2002.

The metallic paint on all the BMW regardless of how much wax you did or did not use completely crazed with in 2 years. The aluminum heads on the 5 series cars with thermo reactors cracked on a regular basis, as in every 6 months. Popping the clutch would always result in the guibo coupling shattering, which is a rubber drive train dampner. The electronic fuel injection would fail on an annual basis.

The a/c compressors would fail with in 2 years. They were so lousy a company sold a replacement kit which consisted of a different design and mfg.

They were fun to drive but always in the shop. We also owned Olds at this time, although boring they didn't mechanically fail. Yes some of the trim would fall off on the olds and the latches didn't allways close right but they always got you there and back.

Two enthusiast friends purchased new 540. The blocks have been replaced on each of them very 25k miles. Both sold them after the 2nd block replacement.

Another friend bought a 750i, plagued with so many electronic gremlins it would rarely run right and sold it to a used car dealer. Turns out this was a common occurence for a large run of the 750i due to a chaffing wiring harness that chaffed all along it's length.

One bought another BMW, but the 6 cylinder variety and will not commute with it due to a concern over a lack of durability.

Point being BMW are fun to drive when you can drive them.

[RCSignals]

You're experiencing the fallout from having had your car in a body shop, that's all.

The fine dust from the sanding that goes on in a body shop gets EVERYWHERE and will do a number on alternators, water pumps, and/or power steering pumps in short order. Every car I've ever had in a body shop for whatever little job that took more than a day has munched one of the above items within a year (usually within the first 4-6 months, actually).

Keep an eye on the rest of your rotating assemblies under the hood over the next few months... alternator whine, power steering screech, etc. If nothing goes within the next few months, you should be good to go.


that's exactly what I was thinking

[sailsmen]

"Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:29 am Post subject: Z4's without problems

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, It would have scared me to death had I found this site before I took delivery of my car......With the problems that seem to be arising. As it is I have found the car to be without problems (other than the alarm issue which I have reported here already). The car is everything I wanted and expected it to be. I know with only 2000 miles on the clock there is still time for problems to show, but so far everything fits, works and sounds right.

So for you guys and girls out there who are waiting for delivery or are planning to order.....don't despair."

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:12 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Z4TT - you make a very good point which needs to be repeated now and again. A forum is a natural collecting point for problems with a car. This is natural because when things are going fine people seldom make a point of telling people so. However, when people have problems they will obviously share these in order to get good advice on fixing the problem. There is nothing wrong with any of the above - but folks waiting for their cars to arive and prospective buyers should keep this in mind. The number of satisfied customers FAR outweighs unsatisfied ones - as indicated clearly in the poll carried out recently. Of course this statement is not meant to belittle those suffering with car problems.
Cheers,
Z4ce"

Above from the BMW z 4 forum. I read thru a number of threads, they report the same type of problems we report here, namely known issues with a known fix.

A BMW 6 series hasn't been released yet and the price will be over 2x the MM.

[rookie1]

So, farewell MM owners and I wish you all well and good luck with your beautiful MMs. And thank you, Logan, for this site. It helped me to decide to wait for the new 645i.

Adios,

DaveSauerkraut burning foreign piece of ...........

sorry, couldn't help myself.

[RCSignals]

Well said, Haggis.
Silencing ourselves out of fear of scaring off a potential buyer would be a disservice to the Marauder community. The collective experience within the group serves as a safety net for us all, and for future owners. Think of it this way... we're keeping Ford honest. No more "sorry sir, they ALL do that" or "that's normal behaviour" or "you've put too many miles on your car in a short time". Strength in numbers. We paid for our right to expect eventual perfection and our right to complain when we haven't received it.

Anyone who is truly interested in learning about this automobile will see the positive posts and not only the negative ones. And there is no shortage of the positive ones on this site!


well said

Anyone who bases his decision on buying a car on what is posted on the internet only, shouldn't buy the car anyway.

[Fourth Horseman]

well said

Anyone who bases his decision on buying a car on what is posted on the internet only, shouldn't buy the car anyway.

...or probably anything else, for that matter.

[EbonyMarauder03]

Quality isn't what it should be, not for a car in this price range. I've just turned over 9,100 on my 2003 and have had the following:

Noise/vibration from the frame....took 3 trips to find an extra body bushing.

Squeaking driver's seat....going for second trip now to replace the lumbar, also found a chaffed wire harness to the side air bag while apart.

I only have 2 original lights on the front of the car, the rest succumbed to water intrusion

This weekend on a very thorough vacuuming I found 3 bolts under the passenger seat. Lord only knows where they were slated to go.

When it goes in for the lumbar replacement I'm going to have them check the engine noise. I know it's oil has been changed frequently since I get it done with the warranty work.

Quality used to be job one but it ain't no more. We at the dealer level keep telling Ford to change their ways because we see it everyday with customers like you who paid a lot for your cars. It's more necessary for us enthusiasts that buy the special cars they produce like Marauders, Cobras and Lightnings.

[hitchhiker]

Well, this post was the straw that broke the MM's back. I've been researching the MM for a few weeks now. Even been to several dealers, drove a few MMs, got prices and picked a color. But - there was a nagging feeling about the whole thing...and you know why? I've been reading the posts at this web site and honestly there are too many problems with this car, that's why. From bad paint to hard start and all in between, the cars quality has issues. Well, Ford...I should have known. I've had 3 BMW's in the past twenty years, from a 320i to a 318i to a 535is and not one of them were plagued with the problems these brand new MMs have. I drove all three of them to the 200,000 mile range (the 535i had 267,000) and basically put gas in the them and changed the oil and tires. Nothing, nada, was ever an issue. Just drove 'em.

So, farewell MM owners and I wish you all well and good luck with your beautiful MMs. And thank you, Logan, for this site. It helped me to decide to wait for the new 645i.

Adios,

Dave
HOW FRENCH ARE YOU? NEWER BMW'S ARE JUNK!

TAKE YOUR BMW, YOUR BRIE, AND YOUR WHINEY A** DOWN THE ROAD!

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: