Locking Differential

[Haggis]

I was watching "HorsePower TV" this afternoon on they showed this locking differential. Has anyone ever heard of this product or used it on one of their vehicles before? It is different than the ECTED by AuburnGear that was the topic of another Thread. This one is completely machnical in operation as opposed to being electronicly controled. Wouldn't that make this differential better for normal everyday driving and occassional track applications. This is something that I would be interested in for my Marauder, please post your opinions good or bad.

Let the debate begin! :flamer:



http://www.powertrax.com/locker.htm

[BillyGman]

I believe that if it's called a "locking" rear end, then that implies that it's like a "Detriot Locker" which is strictly for the track since it locks the rear end so that both right and left wheels have full power to them equally all the time. And that makes it difficult to make turns since one wheel has to turn a greater number of times while the vehicle is negotiating any turn. In other words w/a locking rear end there are no factory type clutches that enable the full torque to be transferred to the wheel on the outside of a turn.

However, there are different versions of a "locking' rear end on the market now. I don't know about the one you've mentioned, but I've seen on the www.summitracing.com website different set ups that are called "spools" which give your car the best of both worlds. They lock the rear end completely while going straight, so that there is better traction, and the ability to launch straight coming off the starting line at the track, while at the same time, they unlock while going around a turn w/out making a loud ratcheting noise like some "Lockers" do. I hope this helps.

[TAF]

Wasn't this recent thread about something similar?

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=104773#post10 4773

[BillyGman]

Wasn't this recent thread about something similar?

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?
p=104773#post104773 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=104773#post10 4773)

I believe he's speaking of a Locker that is fully mechanical, and w/out a switch like the one in that thread. Apparently this Auburn company makes both kinds.

[TAF]

Gotchya, Billy my friend. The details of this is outta my league...just thought I remembered something similar.:coolman:

[BillyGman]

Gotchya, Billy my friend. The details of this is outta my league...just thought I remembered something similar.:coolman:

maybe you and I should stick to the GT. ;) ooooops,,,there I go again. I can't help it........it just seems to keep coming out of me "uncontrolaBilly"!!!!!

[Haggis]

Yes, what I posted is a mechnically controled Locking Differential which locks up to provide tourque to both wheels when going straight, but will unlock automaticaly when you go into a turn.

I thought this was interesting and wanted all of your opinions comparing the Powertrax to the Auburn which is electronicaly controled.

[BillyGman]

well if you're comparing it to the Auburn one in that other thread, then perhaps TAF had the right idea by suggesting that you pose this question in that same thread cuz you might get more responses in there.

[FordNut]

Mechanical lockers can be used on the street, as I have used a Detroit Locker in my truck for over 10 years. There is a downside, however. The Detroit Locker is a very strong locker and the ratcheting mechanism requires a lot of force to release. So you always get two-wheel burnouts. But when cornering it is common that the inside tire squalls because it requires less force to break the tire's traction than to release the ratcheting mechanism. And when it does release it is common to feel a loud bang and shifting motion in the rear end. Some of the other mechanical lockers are not as severe in the releasing mechanism so the noise and shifting motion is not as noticeable. The Auburn mechanical unit is supposed to be this way and maybe the Powertrax system is too.

Never use a spool on the street. It will lock the two axles together solidly and will eventually break an axle. It is also very difficult to drive on curves with a spool.

The OEM traction lock and any other system that uses clutches will eventually wear out the clutches. If it still keeps a good posi effect after 50k mi, you're very lucky.

The air operated systems provide a solid spool type lockup when you want it, but operate as an open rear end when switched off. Therefore you have to know when you want posi and it's not good for cornering when activated so it's not very good for road-racing applications.

The electrically operated system has a lot of potential if the releasing mechanism (clutches, cogs, whatever) are strong enough to provide a good locking effect without wearing out like clutches do in the OEM posi. It sounds like it could be automatically activated instead of user-controlled so that is another plus. But it's new so somebody has to try it out. Wasn't long ago that clutches in torque converters were unheard of and electronic circuits were not installed in trannys, so why wouldn't it work?

[FordNut]

This was on the page that the link took me to:

In some vehicles, you will hear a light clicking noise as the gears are overrunning themselves and allowing the wheels to differentiate in a turn. This is normal of most lockers on the market today. We recommend the Lock-Right for vehicles that are primarily driven in severe driving conditions or are used for recreational off-road. For vehicles that are driven daily or require more mainstream application, the Powertrax No-Slip Traction System offers a quieter and smoother performance. Please see the No-Slip Traction System page.

Then the No-Slip page opens with:

The Powertrax No-Slip Traction System is the latest design in traction adding differential technology. It combines the smooth operation of a limited-slip differential, with the traction performance of a locking differential.

So maybe this would be a good option. Who's gonna go first?

[BillyGman]

Hmmmm........... some good info there FordNut. I wish this thread came up BEORE I did that last ring & Pinion gear change on my MM. :rolleyes:

[TripleTransAm]

The OEM traction lock and any other system that uses clutches will eventually wear out the clutches. If it still keeps a good posi effect after 50k mi, you're very lucky.

:eek: Are you referring specifically to a Ford OEM system or any clutch-based limited slip diff in general? I'm more used to seeing 100k+ mi out of such systems (mostly F-bodies, some large GM cars too)... 50k mi lifetime would greatly p*ss me off, I can tell you that! I think I need to have a talk with my Ford tech about this... if my limited slip gives up the ghost at 50k mi, there'll be one ticked off Marauder owner at their doorstep throwing a pile of diff parts around in a rage, I can promise you that.

Jeez, even my '78 T/As factory original diff still grabs solidly at 110k mi... too solidly, time to change the fluid, it seems ("clunk clunk clunk" around tight corners).

[Haggis]

Thanks FordNut that is the info that I was looking for. I am new to this modding of cars thing and read the other post on the Auburn gear. After seeing the PowerTrax on TV I wanted a professional opinion on the two.

At this time I am not ready to go out and put one on my car, but who knows maybe in the future. For daily driving it would be great if it gives us more straight line torque to both wheels when we want to play and automatically disengages in turns.

So which one would be better the electronic diff. by Auburn or the machnical one by PowerTrax??

Thanks again, any more opinions?

[gonzo50]

I was watching "HorsePower TV" this afternoon on they showed this locking differential. Has anyone ever heard of this product or used it on one of their vehicles before?
I saw the same show and it's a limited slip differential, this is the link to it:
http://www.horsepowertv.com/schedule/

[FordNut]

:eek: Are you referring specifically to a Ford OEM system or any clutch-based limited slip diff in general? I'm more used to seeing 100k+ mi out of such systems (mostly F-bodies, some large GM cars too)... 50k mi lifetime would greatly p*ss me off, I can tell you that! I think I need to have a talk with my Ford tech about this... if my limited slip gives up the ghost at 50k mi, there'll be one ticked off Marauder owner at their doorstep throwing a pile of diff parts around in a rage, I can promise you that.

Jeez, even my '78 T/As factory original diff still grabs solidly at 110k mi... too solidly, time to change the fluid, it seems ("clunk clunk clunk" around tight corners).

My experience has been that after about 50k the Ford limited slip starts to slip (as in open diff) more than limit (as in posi). But no funny noises, it just starts to do one-wheel burnouts more frequently. Maybe it's a short lifespan due to my driving style. If anybody else could comment it would be nice info.

[FordNut]

Thanks FordNut that is the info that I was looking for. I am new to this modding of cars thing and read the other post on the Auburn gear. After seeing the PowerTrax on TV I wanted a professional opinion on the two.

At this time I am not ready to go out and put one on my car, but who knows maybe in the future. For daily driving it would be great if it gives us more straight line torque to both wheels when we want to play and automatically disengages in turns.

So which one would be better the electronic diff. by Auburn or the machnical one by PowerTrax??

Thanks again, any more opinions?

At this point I would go for the mechanical one, at least until some test results are posted here on the electronic one. But somebody's gotta go first to get any test results, right? Tag, you're it!

[TripleTransAm]

My experience has been that after about 50k the Ford limited slip starts to slip (as in open diff) more than limit (as in posi). But no funny noises, it just starts to do one-wheel burnouts more frequently. Maybe it's a short lifespan due to my driving style. If anybody else could comment it would be nice info.

Oh man...

Oh well, thanks for the info... I think...

[FordNut]

I heard that one of the Team Ford guys was installing one of these electrically operated posi units. Any updates on performance?

[woaface]

Think this would fit an MM?

http://www.adtr.net/shop.php?page=drivetrain

[BillyGman]

Think this would fit an MM?

http://www.adtr.net/shop.php?page=drivetrain

sure, as long as they list one for a Ford 8.8" rear. there's another heavy duty rear end part (a differential) that is claimed to provide hi-performance traction.......it's sold in the Summitracing catalogue and ebsite, and is made by Eaton.

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=search.asp&type=bykeyword&searchtype=both&part=eaton&x=11&y=9

[RCSignals]

The "Powertrax No-Slip Traction System" is supposed to be a nice compromise between a traditional "limited slip" and a "locking" system.

I have no experience with the Powertrax No-Slip Traction System , but they seem simple enough, and being a mechanical system may be an advantage.


I wonder if it will ever be necessary for a Ford 9" in a highly modified Marauder?

[BillyGman]

The "Powertrax No-Slip Traction System" is supposed to be a nice compromise between a traditional "limited slip" and a "locking" system.

I wonder if it will ever be necessary for a Ford 9" in a highly modified Marauder?

If what will be "neccessary"??? A Ford 9" rear in a Marauder, or a Powertrax set-up in a Marauder that already has a 9" rear?

if you mean the latter, to my knowledge the advantage of having a 9" rear is because of increased durability that the 9" offers. But having a 9" rear wouldn't neccessarily mean better traction than an 8.8" rear that the marauder originally comes with. therefore, I believe that there still would be an advantage to having a Powertrax or similar set-up in a 9" rear IF they are offered for those rears.

[RCSignals]

Sorry to confuse you Billy. My ford 9" comment isn't necessarily related to the Powertrax comment, although I guess could be.
Just thinking out loud.

What I mean is, with the way some of the Marauders have been and probably will be modified for increasing output (TAF), I wonder if it will become necessary for someone to install a Ford 9" differential replacing the 8.8.

The 8.8 is a proven stout unit, but not as stout as a good 9".

[BillyGman]

AAAHHHHH!!! What's Todd got up his sleeve for his marauder that he hasn't told me about? I'll have to call him to see if he will talk!!!!

Anyway, Thanks for the explanation RC. I didn't quite understand what your question was. But yes, I agree that the Ford 9's are much better. i guess that's common knowledge. My guess would be that this would be an expensive upgrade (however a diserable one no doubt). Weather that's needed? that's a good question. maybe we should hope and wait for more replies to your question.

but let me add that the only one here that I know about who has had serious rear end problems w/their marauder is MAC, and he told me that it was due to them using the stock ring gear bolts over again after the gear change instead of the case hardened ones that come w/the ring & pinion gear sets.

[martyo]

I heard that one of the Team Ford guys was installing one of these electrically operated posi units. Any updates on performance?

You would have to ckeck in with Todd. Too bad he is not around....

[darebren]

to be clear, don't we already all have limited slip? i have never noticed any one wheel burnouts. so we are talking about a better limited slip out there, that if going straight will lock as well?

[FordNut]

to be clear, don't we already all have limited slip? i have never noticed any one wheel burnouts. so we are talking about a better limited slip out there, that if going straight will lock as well?
Yes we already have limited slip. The one-wheel burnouts due to the traction-lock unlocking occasionally happen to me but not enough to think about repairs at this time. As I said earlier in this thread,


My experience has been that after about 50k the Ford limited slip starts to slip (as in open diff) more than limit (as in posi). But no funny noises, it just starts to do one-wheel burnouts more frequently. Maybe it's a short lifespan due to my driving style.

And on the subject of 9" rears, they are much stronger, but also much heavier. That will increase unsprung weight and negatively impact handling.

The point of my bringing this thread back up to the top was to find out about the electrical locking posi. I would have thought it would be unreliable until I found out how strong and reliable the electrical locking clutch is in the torque converter. Now I think it may be a good thing for the rear end but would like to hear a first-hand report.

[Haggis]

The point of my bringing this thread back up to the top was to find out about the electrical locking posi. I would have thought it would be unreliable until I found out how strong and reliable the electrical locking clutch is in the torque converter. Now I think it may be a good thing for the rear end but would like to hear a first-hand report.


Thanks for reviving the thread Fordnut. I had forgotten about it, since my money went to other mods and a trip to Flordia recently. Guess I will have to start looking into it again.

If you or anyone else hears of ant updates on the locking diff. please poat the findings and I will do the same.

[Dan]

As some of you know I am the President of a 4 wheel drive rock crawling club. As such I have learned quite a bit about traction devices in the last few years so hopefully I will have something constructive to add to this thread.

Fordnut gave a very good description of the various types of lockers. The user will have to determine what use he wants for his car prior to installing one.

There is a selectable locker not mentioned that will work in our cars. It is called the ARB air locker. Hundreds of 4 wheelers who give them tremendous amounts of abuse will swear by them and, because our cars already have an OBA (on board air) set up all one has to do is buy the locking unit.

If you are truly a gear head you may want to look into posi kits that offer modifiable clutch packs. BMW rally cross guys have been doing this for years. What they do is they pull their locker and tighten or loosen it up by changing the internal components that create the locking action. In doing so they can get the right amount of differential. On a straighter track they might want less differential, on a more curvy track they might want more differential.

The Powertrax no slip system is a proven system and is what our sport calls a "lunch box" locker. They are easy to service and easy to install. I had a bad experience with one and blew it up. They warrantied it for me. I would blame the installer for the failure and not the unit.

One of the founders of that company has started his own company and has made a superior locker to the PowerTrax. It is called the Aussie Locker and is found at aussielocker.com. In my not so humble opinion the Aussie Locker is going to give better all around performance than that Powertrax. Reiews from the field say that is has the most positive locking action with the least "bang" when it slips into its open mode. I am planning to convert my IFS front end to a solid front end. When I do I am going to buy the Aussie Locker.

As far as the strength of the 8.8 vs the 9 the 8.8 has proven itself to be all but equal to the 9". Using my rock crawling truck as an example, I have an ARB air locker and 5.13:1 gears in the pumpkin. I am running on 35" tires. I have been on 45º climbs with wheels spinning, caught traction and never had an axle break. Many of the harder core rock crawlers put the 8.8 in their rigs. For strength, durability, servicability, cost and parts availability it is the best solution for cars like ours. There are exceptions to every rule, of course.

My driving is oriented toward highway and light to light driving. Mostly straight stuff. I did not buy the MM for the twisties. If I want a slalom car I will go buy a GTI, and MG or a Mini. That being the case I would probably install the ARB in my car after the Trilogy SC goes in. This will guarantee me the traction I need for even dual rear wheel traction starts without interfering at all with what little cornering that I do.

I hope that this helps.

Best,

Dan

References: http://www.jonfund.com (the 4X4 club)
http://www.aussielocker.com (the Aussie Locker)
http://www.therangerstation.com (tons of 8.8 info there)
http://www.arbusa.com (ARB Air locker)
http://www.powertrax.com (the Lock Right locker)

NOTE: The reason I would choose an Aussie Locker for the truck and an ARB for the car has to do with the different restrictions placed on the install by the fact that in one instance it is a rear locker and in another it is a front locker.

[BillyGman]

Dan, that sounds like some good info to me. Thanks guy!!!

[BillyGman]

I just contacted the company, and the Aussie Locker is NOT available yet for the Ford 8.8" rear which is what we have in our Marauders.Furthermore, the Aussie locker is primarily for an open rear end, and if you want to install it in a Limited slip "Posi" or "Trac-LOK" rear like we have in our Marauders, then a whole new differential carrier must be purchased and installed just to accomodate the Aussie Locker.

The powertrax "no-slip" system is available for the Ford 8.8 rear, but NOT the Powertrax "Lock-right" system. However, it looks to me that the "Lock-right" system wouldn't be as desireable for the Marauder anyway because it isn't as quiet as the latest Powertrax design which is the "no-slip" one.

Furthermore I just downloaded the installation manual, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that the installation of the Powertrax locker is very simple, and doesn't even require any ring & pinion gear set-up to be performed. Infact the carrier doesn't even have to be removed. However that's provided that you don't have 4.56 gears like I do, since the removal of the cross shaft pin w/that ratio is impossible due to the increased thickness of the 4.56 ring gear. So I would have to remove the carrier from the housing in order to press off the ring gear in order to remove the cross shaft pin. But others who have the 3.55's, the 4.10's or the 4.30's would enjoy a very simple installation of the powertrax system in their Marauder. Very interesting.

[MI2QWK4U]

For what its worth, my factory Posi went south after a bad burnout, must have gotten one Nitto wetter than the other in the water box...one tire caught mid burnout and that was that. I have since replaced it with an Eaton Limited Slip Differential if I remember what Lidio said correctly. The difference is immediate and noticable. Burnouts are better and more consistant, which is what hurt me last time at Milan, no posi, no good burnout equals unprepared Nittos equals traction problems which gave me ****ty 60' times on that day. Here is how important it is....I had a best ever 60' time last year on my street tires when my posi was still ok. If I recall, on street tires at 405 RWHP I had a best 60' time of 1.7. A couple weeks ago i was on my Nitto 305s with 440 RWHP without heating up the Nittos properly I had traction issues off the line that got me a 60' time of 1.9, so its easy to see that in certain applications a good solid posi is a must have....

[BillyGman]

Were you able to drive the car home after that happened at the track?? As far as the Eaton posi goes, I'm sure that it's an improvement over the stock differential, However the nice thing about the Powertrax Locker, is that it actually requires less labor to install since the differential carrier doesn't need to be removed and replaced, and therefore no Ring & Pinion set-up is required. Furthermore it is my understanding that Locker systems such as the powerTrax one, provide more traction than any posi or "Limited slip" system like the stock or the Eaton system do.

[Dan]

Thanks aren't necessary although they are appreciated. You're welcome! I try to give back when I can.

I am sorry that I used all 4X4 references in my post. I hope that some of the info is still useful.

Best,

Dan

[MI2QWK4U]

Were you able to drive the car home after that happened at the track?? As far as the Eaton posi goes, I'm sure that it's an improvement over the stock differential, However the nice thing about the Powertrax Locker, is that it actually requires less labor to install since the differential carrier doesn't need to be removed and replaced, and therefore no Ring & Pinion set-up is required. Furthermore it is my understanding that Locker systems such as the powerTrax one, provide more traction than any posi or "Limited slip" system like the stock or the Eaton system do.


When the stock posi goes, you just dont get equal burnouts, you could drive it just fine, I did for a couple of months without any problems. I checked with Lidio, he installed a Heavy Duty 28 spline Eaton Limited Slip Posi. I have never heard of Powertrax, I just went with a proven well known Eaton setup that I shouldnt have to touch again.

[BillyGman]

I'm not knocking the Eaton differential in any way. The Powertrax system is offered by the Richmond gear company which is a very well established and well known gear company that manufactures rear end Ring & Pinion gear sets, as well as heavy duty transmissions and has been doing so for a long time. The Powertrax system has also been sold by Summit Racing for years. It's a locker type unit which from what I hear, those type of units are more geared for serious racing. In the past the Locker rear units were all very noisy while driven on the street during left and righthand turns. but it's my understanding that these powertrax systems give you the best of both worlds. Locked axles during straight line launches for optimal traction, along w/relatively quiet operation around turns on the street. From what I've been reading about Locker units such as the Powertrax system, I don't think you would ever have to worry about one tire going through the water box, and one tire not going through it. Because w/a locker, both tires would spin anyway. BTW, I'm beginning to think that unless we have a locker in the rear end, then even w/drag radials it would be a better idea to simply avoid the water box and perform the burnout on the side of it on the dry pavement so that there would be no concern w/one of the tires not getting wet.

The only thing that will lock your left and right axles together better than a Locker such as the powertrax, is a spool or a mini-spool, which simply bolts your two axles together as if they're all one axle. However, spools are for drag racing only and cannot be used in cars that are driven on the street since they provide no differential action at all for turning. They're for straight line driving only.

I've never used one of thse Powertrax systems, but Powertrax is nothing brand new. So I'm sure that you would hear of them amongst drag racing circles. Thanks for your explanation of what happened to your Marauder's stock differential.

Dan, the info you gave was great. It made me aware of what's available, and what the differences are. And that's important, because what I've learned over the years is that you have to do your homework to find out what's best for you, and for your car. You cannot rely on the word nor the suggestions of anyone who has something to sell you. At the very least, you have to read and be aware of all their competitors' claims, so that you atleast are aware of both, or all sides. Talking to their customers about the products in question always help to get to the bottom of things too. Thanks again Dan.

[BillyGman]

However, there are different versions of a "locking" rear ends on the market now. I don't know about the one you've mentioned, but I've seen on the www.summitracing.com website different set ups that are called "spools" which give your car the best of both worlds. They lock the rear end completely while going straight, so that there is better traction, and the ability to launch straight coming off the starting line at the track, while at the same time, they unlock while going around a turn w/out making a loud ratcheting noise like some "Lockers" do. I hope this helps.

I want to point out to everyone that this quote of mine that I've taken from the begining of this thread indicates that I was mistaking about "Lockers" and "spools". In my above quote I got that info kinda backwards. Like I've already pointed out in my previous post, "Spools" and "Mini-Spools" lock-up the two axles together full time, and can ONLY be used for straight-line driving at the dragstrip, and NOT on the street at all.

For the best traction possible provided by a rear end on the dragstrip, while at the same time enabling the car to be driven on the street around turns, you want the "Locker" type products. The draw back to SOME of them is the ratcheting noises that can bve heard while driving through turns. But as I've also pointed out in my previous post, the Powertrax "No-Slip" Locker is suppposed to be very quiet while at the same time still providing just as much Locking of both left and right axles together during straight-Line driving for the best traction possible. I just wanted to clear that up to avoid confusing anyone.

[FordNut]

Anybody try one of these electric lockers yet?

It would be neat to install a dash trim panel and switch from a MM with t/c in a '03 300A and use the t/c switch to control the locker.

[martyo]

Anybody try one of these electric lockers yet?

It would be neat to install a dash trim panel and switch from a MM with t/c in a '03 300A and use the t/c switch to control the locker.


Hang in their Brian. Soon ernough it will be done.

[sovapid]

the Powertrax "No-Slip" Locker is suppposed to be very quiet while at the same time still providing just as much Locking of both left and right axles together during straight-Line driving for the best traction possible.

I have a No-Slip locker in a 99 Wrangler with 33" tires. "very quiet" is relative to other lockers. It is quieter than a Detroit Locker, but it does make quite a bit of noise in turns. Anyone driving your car who didn't know to expect the clicking/racheting sound would think that something was broken. I'm sure it would not be as bad in a Marauder compared to an open Jeep due to the sound insulation.

I wouldn't hesitate to put one in my car. It does change how the vehicle drives, especially when appling power in a turn. I forget exactly which way it goes (so i may have this backwords), but in a normal differential the power will go to the outside wheel in a turn. In a locker, the power will go to the inside wheel. This is really noticable in a short wheelbase lifted Jeep.

[BillyGman]

There are two different "PowerTrax" lockers now offered by Richmond gear. Their latest one is the one that I was talking about. Their original Powertrax Locker which is still offered is called the "Lock Right" system, and it is louder than the newer one. Are you sure that the one in your Jeep is their latest one?


Here's a link to their webpage that lists the two links for them in the yellow letters......

http://www.powertrax.com/

[paul hersom]

I don't know if this will add anything here but a buddy of mine just bought an '04 Mustang Mach 1 and we noticed on his window sticker it specifies a locking differential as opposed to the lim. slip on our Mms. Same basic engine. The only one I really knew well was a posi on my '68 442. That chattered a bit at low speed but functioned perfectly.

[BillyGman]

I believe that Ford calls it a "Locking" rear end if it isn't an open rear ("open" meaning power to one side). Ford doesn't use the term "Posi". That's a General Motors term. Are you sure that your Olds had a Locker from the facory? I've never heard of that, but I don't claim to be an expert on the subject either.

[sovapid]

There are two different "PowerTrax" lockers now offered by Richmond gear. Their latest one is the one that I was talking about. Their original Powertrax Locker which is still offered is called the "Lock Right" system, and it is louder than the newer one. Are you sure that the one in your Jeep is their latest one?


Here's a link to their webpage that lists the two links for them in the yellow letters......

http://www.powertrax.com/

I havent been reading over here for a while.....

Yes, my Jeep has the newer design, not the original Lock Right. It appears that Richmond has changed the name from NoSlip to PowerTrax. The Lock Right and NoSlip were original made by a company called PowerTrax. About a year and a half ago, PowerTrax went out of business and Richmond bought the design from the defunct company.

If you look at the url for the PowerTrax, the file name is still NoSlip:

http://www.powertrax.com/noslip.html
Sean

[BillyGman]

Okay then. Thanks for that info. :up: