Friday the 13th engine problems...help?!

[a_d_a_m]

(this is for my '03 300A with 108k, changed at 3000-4000k with full synthetic regularly, driven 'spirited' and occasionally run at the strip)

A few days ago I noticed a tick that seemed to increase with RPM (only heard it while parked though). Car ran fine, oil smelled/looked good, no power loss or MPG loss. Went away rather quickly. Drove the car another day, no problems.

Started the car today and drove 4 miles to the gas station with no issues whatsoever.

After putting gas (93) in the tank, I started the car to find it running very rough - I mean you can feel the shudder under acceleration. No 'tick' sound but the exhaust sounds bad, I can't describe it any better than that. Drove it a half mile down the road and checked for anything under the hood obviously wrong. Nothing.

Finished my 4 remaining miles to work, during which I could feel the shudder and had noticeable power loss while climbing a freeway overpass. Parked the car, noticed the smell of burnt oil but no smoke from the tailpipe. Shut it off immediately.


During my whole trip: no CEL, oil pressure gauge (while fake) read as having pressure



Based on a few searches I've done, I've heard everything from:
-bad COP
-bad MAF
-bad crank position sensor
-bad TPS
-bad O2 sensor
-the engine's toast


Anyone? Buellllller?

[Blackened300a]

Sounds like you popped a spark plug out. Mine started as a tick too, the smell is combustion gases escaping through the plug hole.

[a_d_a_m]

Plugs were changed less than 2000 miles ago...and torqued properly. Hope not.

[breeze]

Having the same problem. Put pulled all cops out were working but put a new one in fron AutoZone and felt better. Shudder barely felt, throttle response felt better. Sounded better so I went as nd ordered all new cops from Sparta.

[babbage]

My vote would be cops/plugs too. Take all of the plugs out and see if any were loose etc.

Good luck.

[Blackened300a]

Plugs were changed less than 2000 miles ago...and torqued properly. Hope not.

Pop off the coil covers, I'm pretty certain that's the issue. It's possible some threads were damaged from the last removal and the plug worked its way out. Worst case scenario is burnt valve on the 7&8 cylinder but I don't think you'll get a tick from that happening. I also drove 15 miles with the plug popped out and no CEL but loss of power and hesitations.

[a_d_a_m]

Okay, that'll give me something to chew on anyway. Though I'm wondering why I wouldn't hear the sound more under the hood?

I'm calling AAA and having it towed home.

[Blackened300a]

Another thing to look for is oil down in the plug holes caused by a bad cam cover gasket. The hole may be full of oil and causing a misfire, but the ticking makes me believe it's a popped plug.

[a_d_a_m]

Just replaced those gaskets too! :D

[Curless]

Bad cop, go thru them slowly you'll find it.

[a_d_a_m]

While waiting on the tow truck, I pulled the coil cover on the passenger side. All plugs intact. Didn't have time to do the driver's side.

Gotta tell ya...doesn't look right leaving on a tow truck. :(

[RubberCtyRauder]

Sorry to hear about your Marauder, Adam...Sorry, I can't offer any diagnosis other than what has been mentioned..Hope it turns out for the better!!

On a side note, ever hear of anything good, bad about RDP Motorsports in Perry? If you know anything, you can just pm me, not meaning to derail the thread

[tbone]

http://www.am-autoparts.com/cart.html

I have these in 2 cars and they are great.

[a_d_a_m]

http://www.am-autoparts.com/cart.html

I have these in 2 cars and they are great.
"Your cart is empty, you can start shopping by selecting your vehicle from the drop-downs above." :confused:

[a_d_a_m]

On a side note, ever hear of anything good, bad about RDP Motorsports in Perry? If you know anything, you can just pm me, not meaning to derail the thread I'll just post here.

My dad had them install an Eibach suspension kit (the full deal, adjustable and all that garbage) on his Mustang. Price was good, though they were a little slow on install and we had to call them a couple times to get updates. I think they took 10 days longer than they said they would.

Barry (CRUZTAKER - no longer posts here) had them do some tuning on his Marauder and found them to be pricey and take forever. His car had some issues going in, from what I remember.

If you had an LX-platform Mopar, I'd absolutely recommend them - that's about all they do.

[kmac]

had same problems with my old engine, ran extremley rough obviously missfiring. went through all the steps, coils, plugs, time-sert but problem continued. one day i was driving to school and i hear a ping and i figured it was a blown out spark plug. ended up being a valve. very frustrating problem

[EMAS]

What brand of spark plugs did you use? I used to use Autolite almost exclusively but they are now made in China and I had a few fail so they caused a miss in just a few thousand miles.

[a_d_a_m]

Motorcraft.

[Spectragod]

I had a Motorcraft plug have the insulator break, and slid down around the tip of the plug, causing an obvious misfire.

[sailsmen]

Could be a bad injector. I had an intermittenly bad one for 3 years.

[a_d_a_m]

Those will be on my list of things to check when I get a chance. Unfortunately, I work tomorrow and have a scheduled trip Saturday night through Tuesday night.

I'll try tearing into things on Wednesday.

Just got home from work and moved the car into the garage. While idling (rough) I unplugged the MAF. Within 10 seconds, the car stalled. Once plugged back in, the car idles (again, rough) and does not stall.

Never waited for it to get up to operating temperature, but when I shut the car off, I noticed that the exhaust smelled like it was running rich.






This just ain't right...
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/575818_716800928421_1706017187 _n.jpg

[CameronVic]

Could be a bad injector. I had an intermittenly bad one for 3 years.Exactly what I was going to suggest. I put some injector cleaner in one time (Which I'll never do again) and I believe it cleaned the tank, and not the injectors. Dislodged some sediment, and it ruined the 1 and 5 injectors.

I was however getting a CEL and when it kept misfiring on 1 and 5, I swapped the injectors with 2 and 6, and the misfire followed the injectors, and figured out it was the injectors. I replaced all 8 and the problem went away.

If it's not your COPs Adam, I bet some high roller has some old slightly used stockers that they'd let you try out.

[a_d_a_m]

Something to consider, though the burnt oil smell when I parked the car at work is disconcerting.

I will be unable to wrench on the car until at least Wednesday.

[Blackened300a]

Something to consider, though the burnt oil smell when I parked the car at work is disconcerting.

Thats why I'm thinking you popped a plug. If you go through the plugs and nothing looks abnormal and you dont have any oil in the cam cover holes, then a compression test is in order to make sure you didn't burn a valve. I hope it's something minor.

[a_d_a_m]

Thanks - again, will be a few days before I can even bother with it, but I will make sure to post results and some pictures if there is engine carnage.

[a_d_a_m]

UPDATE: the car has thrown two (well, three, read on) codes - a P1000 and a P1235. I believe the P1000 is probably related to the fact that the car has not been driven enough to cycle the code out; I cleared both with my Xcal2 and they came back instantly - though no CEL was found.

This is what I can tell you about the car after a day of wrenching:

1. The car is making good compression, everything's at or slightly under 180.
2. All plugs are intact, threaded properly, and not fouled. Color looks absolutely perfect for their young age.
3. All COPs are in working order.
4. Fuel filter was dirty, but not too bad. Replaced with a new Motorcraft filter; did not remedy the issue.
5. Fuel is just that - FUEL. It was suggested that perhaps I had some water in my tank; after a good amount of time sitting, the clear glass o'gas I had was 93 octane top to bottom.
6. Fuel pressure reads at 31psi at idle, and holds pressure when the car is shut off. When giving the car gas it stumbles but will raise RPMs (and the idle normalizes a little bit), fuel pressure stays right around there. I didn't get it much over 3500 for fear of causing damage to the car.
7. When removing the fuel pressure sending unit plug (or whatever the little F'er on the fuel rail is), the car will run as it was before. It does throw a P0193 under this circumstance, which does not return when the code is cleared and the plug is reset.
8. When removing the MAF, the car will run for a few seconds before stalling.
9. When removing the camshaft position sensor plug, the car continues running.
10. I have removed the tune from the car and it still does this; we can rule out a tune issue.



Under none of these circumstances was I able to generate an actual CEL. Just the P1000 and the P1235.

Ideas?

[RacerX]

I was thinking number 5 after having a similar issue a couple years ago. My baby don't do Shell gas after that. Can't hurt to put some unleaded high octane race fuel in it or add some ISOHEAT.

[a_d_a_m]

...one other thing to consider:

The fuel pump is audible when I turn the key to "on". If I cycle it 4 times, the car starts regularly and idles normally for 2-3 seconds before going back to stumbling.

If I don't cycle the key on/off, it is difficult to start (extended cranking) and stumbles when it does start.

[a_d_a_m]

Anyone?

Slow White got totaled out by the insurance company today so I am without a running vehicle (well, I'm borrowing one, but I don't own one I mean).

[Marauder6887]

Sounds like your fuel pump is going. what kind of noise and how loud?

[a_d_a_m]

Fuel pump makes the same noise it's always made, and is sending 30psi to the rails (well within normal range), so I find it doubtful that it'd be the pump - that is unless I'm misunderstanding something.

[RacerX]

30psi at idle??? Does it fluctuate or stay at 30?

[Marauder6887]

im pretty sure the fuel psi should be closer to 39 psi at idle.

[Blackened300a]

You can have 100psi, if you don't have enough volume your still starving the engine. Likely a fuel pump issue.

[scruff]

if you still have 30psi at wot its not a fuel pump issue ,did you check all the spark plug wells to make sure theres no water or moisture getting in there?

[a_d_a_m]

if you still have 30psi at wot its not a fuel pump issue ,did you check all the spark plug wells to make sure theres no water or moisture getting in there? Yessir, no water or moisture.

[a_d_a_m]

Car is going into the shop on Tuesday.

I'm at the end of the line as far as what I can actually diagnose in my garage and nothing from here or CVN has gotten me any closer. :(

[scruff]

crappy let us know what the shop says

[a_d_a_m]

Update from the shop:

Exhaust was unbolted at the manifolds to ensure that the cats weren't plugged - they weren't - car still runs like crap.

The P1235 code was cleared at the shop and has yet to return, indicating that the fuel pump driver module appears to be okay. The car tripped a code indicating the car is actually running lean (even with 30psi at idle), though I can't remember what the OBD code number actually was.

At this point, the mechanic believes this to be a fuel issue only, nothing more major.

[a_d_a_m]

update:
Upon further review, there is oil getting through to the exhaust manifold on the left side of the motor. Waiting on a leakdown test and another compression test to see what in the hell is going on.

[Blackened300a]

update:
Upon further review, there is oil getting through to the exhaust manifold on the left side of the motor. Waiting on a leakdown test and another compression test to see what in the hell is going on.

Did you have startup smoke?

[a_d_a_m]

None whatsoever.

[a_d_a_m]

The car is making good compression, everything's at or slightly under 180. Or not.
Apparently the compression tester we borrowed from VatoZone was completely F'd up. The compression numbers the shop got are as follows:

1 - 240
2 - 237
3 - 237
4 - 235
5 - 240
6 - 175
7 - 175
8 - 0

[Spectragod]

Or not.
Apparently the compression tester we borrowed from VatoZone was completely F'd up. The compression numbers the shop got are as follows:

1 - 240
2 - 237
3 - 237
4 - 235
5 - 240
6 - 175
7 - 175
8 - 0

Oh boy, that's a problem. I wish there was something I could say that would be encouraging.

[Blackened300a]

Or not.
Apparently the compression tester we borrowed from VatoZone was completely F'd up. The compression numbers the shop got are as follows:

1 - 240
2 - 237
3 - 237
4 - 235
5 - 240
6 - 175
7 - 175
8 - 0

0? That could only mean valves are stuck wide open or warped that they aren't seated. Did you hear it thump out the exhaust or intake when it ran? Did he perform the test a few times to be certain?

[a_d_a_m]

Talked to Zack and he is pretty confident that it's valve seats.

The engine's always had a thumpy exhaust, but yeah, I guess it kinda made that noise too.

He said to unplug the #8 injector if I have to drive it...which I don't.

[BUCKWHEAT]

(this is for my '03 300A with 108k, changed at 3000-4000k with full synthetic regularly, driven 'spirited' and occasionally run at the strip)

A few days ago I noticed a tick that seemed to increase with RPM (only heard it while parked though). Car ran fine, oil smelled/looked good, no power loss or MPG loss. Went away rather quickly. Drove the car another day, no problems.

Started the car today and drove 4 miles to the gas station with no issues whatsoever.

After putting gas (93) in the tank, I started the car to find it running very rough - I mean you can feel the shudder under acceleration. No 'tick' sound but the exhaust sounds bad, I can't describe it any better than that. Drove it a half mile down the road and checked for anything under the hood obviously wrong. Nothing.

Finished my 4 remaining miles to work, during which I could feel the shudder and had noticeable power loss while climbing a freeway overpass. Parked the car, noticed the smell of burnt oil but no smoke from the tailpipe. Shut it off immediately.


During my whole trip: no CEL, oil pressure gauge (while fake) read as having pressure



Based on a few searches I've done, I've heard everything from:
-bad COP
-bad MAF
-bad crank position sensor
-bad TPS
-bad O2 sensor
-the engine's toast


Anyone? Buellllller?

I was getting the valve noise on start-up and at low rpm operation. I swithched out of the Mobil 1 to good old Ford Semi-syn OEM oil. Noises went away. WOT operation was the same with both Mobil 1 and Ford semisyn.

[a_d_a_m]

Since December '08 and 86k miles (has 105k now) the car has had 3k full-synthetic changes with FL820S filters.

The car was cared for properly before that, but I think it got conventional for the first 80k (2nd owner had it for 6k before realizing it was too slow, and bought a G8 GXP).

[a_d_a_m]

Right now I'm all swimmyheaded and trying to figure out what my next move should be.

With the Marquis being totaled, and me still waiting to hear what's going on with that, I've gotta make the DD the #1 priority. I will probably replace that car with a similar one in terms of cost and condition ('04 MGM LS, nice shape, 94k when it was wrecked).

As far as the Marauder is concerned, I've got a few options.
1. Sell it as-is. I think I could get $4k easy in this market, maybe $5k. Instant cash. Maybe buy another (running) Marauder and just have ONE car (a Marauder) as my daily.
2. Fix current motor. Money's tight and I need a daily driver first, so this might be something that goes on the backburner for a bit. With zero compression on #8, I am skeptical but Zack seems to think it is still the valve seats; since I know nothing about these cars I'm inclined to just agree with him...but...who knows?
3. Save up and just buy a reman motor, drop it in, send the core back.
4. Save WAY up (probably would take 2 years to get all the money I need to get started) and actually go for a full build on the car (Coyote).

#1 and #2 seem most viable at this time...

[a_d_a_m]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=67104
^Zack saves the day even though he's banned.