GM is headed for bankruptcy AGAIN!!

[MERCMAN]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/15/general-motors-is-headed-for-bankruptcy-again/

[tbone]

Government Motors was doomed from the start.

I used to care. Now I bid them farewell.

[fastblackmerc]

Let only the strong survive.

[sailsmen]

President Obama - "So now, I want to do the same thing with manufacturing jobs, not just in the auto industry, but in every industry." "So now, I want to say what we did with the auto industry, we can do it in manufacturing across America."

Ain't it fun to spend other peoples money?

[Rockettman]

The unfortuate thing with this (if it happens), is the workers. Their families. Their savings. That's allot of people that the government doesn't care about.

[breeze]

Lmao should of bought a FORD

[FastMerc]

The unfortuate thing with this (if it happens), is the workers. Their families. Their savings. That's allot of people that the government doesn't care about.
You actually think the dam govt gives a dam! GM invested in the wrong direction in some ways should have waited till back on their feet! Some of threr autos are way to expensive.Our govt just doesnt get the fact nothing will change unless the masses go back to good paying jobs nuff said!

[Kickingwing519]

Like my old vic bumper sticker said "fight socialism, buy a ford" GM did some things right, the gan.national, chevelle, the f-bodys, but its bout time they throw in.the towel

[SpartaPerformance]

The unfortuate thing with this (if it happens), is the workers. Their families. Their savings. That's allot of people that the government doesn't care about.


Hopefully at some point they will be absorbed by Ford, Chrysler or perhaps even some foreign car companies that assemble cars here.

[guspech750]

I say Oh well. If they fail. They fail. I don't own a GM nor do I really want one.

Hmmmmm. Ford Corvette? :lol:


Sent from my iPhone
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[Bigdogjim]

Obama filled the top jobs at GM with loosers from other Federal job, what did you expect.
I just read a report that the bailout in progress will cost the American taxpayers 25 billion now. I say turn off the lights, lock the doors.

Ford can step up and build cars American's want:up:

[jerrym3]

Go Nissan/Datsun, BMW, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai, Audi, Mercedes, and all those other non USA auto makes from other countries!!

How I wish we still had Mercs, Oldsmobiles. Pontiacs, Plymouths, etc, but we decided a long time ago that it was "cooler" to buy a foreign brand, didn't we?

Was the American alternative that bad that we jumped on the foreign bandwagon?

Me? I've never bought, or even looked at, a foreign brand, and I never will, so I guess I'm, once again, in the minority.

[TFB]

I see the article as whining about one specific model when GM has several others that are good sellers... Chevy & GMC combined(and like it or not they are the same thing), always outsell the F series, Ford can claim best seller only for that reason...

[MarauderMike]

Their big problem is that 90% of their car loans (made by GM affiliate Ally) are to people with a credit score of 660 or lower, and 50% of those loans are to people with a credit score of less than 550. Sounds awfully familiar to how the housing mess got started with the government pushing (blackmailing) lending institutions into making loans to people who could normally not qualify let alone the ability to repay the loans.

[babbage]

Obama filled the top jobs at GM with loosers from other Federal job, what did you expect.
I just read a report that the bailout in progress will cost the American taxpayers 25 billion now. I say turn off the lights, lock the doors.

Ford can step up and build cars American's want:up:

Right now, the federal government owns 500,000,000 shares of GM, or about 26% of the company. It would need to get about $53.00/share for these to break even on the bailout, but the stock closed at only $20.21/share on Tuesday. This left the government (really we the people!) holding $10.1 billion worth of stock, and sitting on an unrealized loss of $16.4 billion.

Obama is such an idiot with no business experience.

[RF Overlord]

The line between domestic and foreign is very blurred. I just saw a show about a "zero landfill" factory in Indiana...or Illinois...that built the complete car, from big rolls of sheet steel to finished product.

It was a Subaru factory. The parent company may be Japanese, but the workers are American. I don't know how to feel about this...

[sailsmen]

What is currently draging down the stock price is Opel. The Gov't declined Magna's offer to buy a majority interest for ~$700MM.
The only reason why GM got bailed out in the way it did was because of the UAW.
We now know the Treasury lied to Congress when it told Congress it gave no instructions to the Pensions Benefits Guarrantee Corp about the 20,000 Non-union Delphi employees pension. Under a freedom of info request emails show the Tres told the Pension Benefits Guarrantee not to back the non-union workers pensions. As a resutl they lost 70% of their pensions.
IT is clear this was to send a message to all the non-union auto workers.

[Bigdogjim]

It was a Subaru factory. The parent company may be Japanese, but the workers are American. I don't know how to feel about this...

The profits for the cars/trucks/SUV buikt in the USA go to the home company to re-invested there. Yes they do employ American workers.

So I guess it's not really a black/white or right/left or good/bad thing:confused:

[Bigdogjim]

Right now, the federal government owns 500,000,000 shares of GM, or about 26% of the company. It would need to get about $53.00/share for these to break even on the bailout, but the stock closed at only $20.21/share on Tuesday. This left the government (really we the people!) holding $10.1 billion worth of stock, and sitting on an unrealized loss of $16.4 billion.

Obama is such an idiot with no business experience.
Which is pretty much what I said 25 billion give or take a few million:rolleyes:

[MrBluGruv]

You know how if the U.S. economy failed, it would be catastrophic for the entire world, not just North America?

I think that if GM failed, it would be catastrophic for the entire U.S. car market, not just previous and current GM buyers, and especially from a consumer stand point.

Even if you don't like GM, it's kinda to a point where I don't think you should wish they no longer exist.



Also, another Forbes article linked from the original one posted:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2012/08/16/leadership-not-another-bailout-will-fix-general-motors/


I realize I'll probably get flamed for this no matter what, but I'm really not trying to GM-fanboy here...

[sailsmen]

You know how if the U.S. economy failed, it would be catastrophic for the entire world, not just North America?

I think that if GM failed, it would be catastrophic for the entire U.S. car market, not just previous and current GM buyers, and especially from a consumer stand point.

Even if you don't like GM, it's kinda to a point where I don't think you should wish they no longer exist.



Also, another Forbes article linked from the original one posted:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2012/08/16/leadership-not-another-bailout-will-fix-general-motors/


I realize I'll probably get flamed for this no matter what, but I'm really not trying to GM-fanboy here...

About GM you couldn't be more wrong.
Many a company has gone thru bankruptcy. Our entire economic system is based on the rule of law. Both lenders and borrowers must know what the rules are and that the Gov't will enforce them equally.
As a result of GM and AIG there are no rules. We are no different than Mexico, where Gov't picks the winners and losers.
No economic system in the history of man has prospered where failure is not allowed, where Gov't picks the winners and the losers.
I live in South LA where the main economic driver is Oil and Gas. The Oil and Gas business is a boom and bust business. I have seen many a company go bankrupt. Some are liquidated, most survive.

[MrBluGruv]

About GM you couldn't be more wrong.
Many a company has gone thru bankruptcy. Our entire economic system is based on the rule of law. Both lenders and borrowers must know what the rules are and that the Gov't will enforce them equally.
As a result of GM and AIG there are no rules. We are no different than Mexico, where Gov't picks the winners and losers.
No economic system in the history of man has prospered where failure is not allowed, where Gov't picks the winners and the losers.
I live in South LA where the main economic driver is Oil and Gas. The Oil and Gas business is a boom and bust business. I have seen many a company go bankrupt. Some are liquidated, most survive.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they should be bailed out. In fact, I believe the first bailout is responsible for them not really making any progress (just like all the analysts said would happen). What I do believe needs to happen is they actually get a clue and pick up the pieces in the right way.

I guess I should be more clear actually: a restructuring bankruptcy might be good for them, but for GM as an entity to no longer exist at all, ever? I think that'd be a bad thing in the long run. Maybe they can rise from the ashes as something better than what they've become, but make no mistake: I am DEFINITELY not pro-bailout.

[sailsmen]

Sorry I misunderstood you.
In many cases incompetent companies come out of bankruptcy with little debt and have an advantage over well run companies who are paying all their debt.

GM's 18% market share will not evaporate. The other auto mfgs will sell more cars in a more efficient manner which reduces the cost to the consumer.

The perfect example is Ford vs GM. Would not Ford like the opportunity to get the same "deal" GM got? Or as the President said all manufacturing!

I say BLANK GM, the shinning example of a corrupt Gov't and the marquee' of a Nation in decline. GM = Crony Capitalism.:mad:

[Mebot]

The profits for the cars/trucks/SUV buikt in the USA go to the home company to re-invested there. Yes they do employ American workers.

So I guess it's not really a black/white or right/left or good/bad thing:confused:

Precisely what I was going to say. Buy American & the bottom line profits go back to the US & injected into our economy. However it's the foreign car manufacturers that employ US citizens. Yes American citizens are working at the foreign plants but the sales of these cars go back to Germany, Korea, Japan, etc..

even though US car manufacturers are built outside US I still would buy American to see that sale boost our economy, not Japan or somewhere else

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[Joe Walsh]

That writer seems to be enthralled with VW.
Maybe he hasn't experienced some of VW's noted quality control problems, or their infamous electrical gremlins.
Passats and Tiguons plagued by these problems.
I used to love VWs....of course they were indestructible Beetles....but now I wouldn't buy one!

And as for GM.....Obama will NEVER let them go under....at ANY cost...he has his political career staked to their survival.

Heck, it's only more taxpayer's money....:o

[tbone]

Obama is so proud of supposedly "saving" GM and Chrysler. They still can't turn a profit, and the cost to taxpayers for each job "saved" is hundreds of thousands of dollars. It was simply payback to the unions for installing him in office. Period. End of story.

[guspech750]

Obama is so proud of supposedly "saving" GM and Chrysler. They still can't turn a profit, and the cost to taxpayers for each job "saved" is hundreds of thousands of dollars. It was simply payback to the unions for installing him in office. Period. End of story.

Yo Tom. Last I saw, Bush too gave GM almost 20 billion in loans. Was that to help the unions too? I didn't think so.


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[vkirkend]

You actually think the dam govt gives a dam! GM invested in the wrong direction in some ways should have waited till back on their feet! Some of threr autos are way to expensive.Our govt just doesnt get the fact nothing will change unless the masses go back to good paying jobs nuff said!

Auto workers do have good paying jobs. Management needs to design and make a vehicle the public wants. Everytime I see a Camaro I see fail.... The Malibu they talked about in the article has been made smaller to it" is s detriment. GM needs to clean it"s management staff and hire some engineersfrom Toyota or Nissan.

[MrBluGruv]

Auto workers do have good paying jobs. Management needs to design and make a vehicle the public wants. Everytime I see a Camaro I see fail.... The Malibu they talked about in the article has been made smaller to it" is s detriment. GM needs to clean it"s management staff and hire some engineersfrom Toyota or Nissan.

The thing that sucks about the new Camaro (from a performance standpoint) is that it's not a huge improvement over the 4th gen Camaros. The LS3 is a fantastic engine, just like the LS1 was (and still is really), but the newer Camaro is SO DAMNED HEAVY it's unreal, and puts the 4th gen at almost the same hp/lbs ratio. I'll leave aesthetics alone in this one, as I see just as many new Camaros on the road as I do new Mustangs and new Challengers, of all trim levels.

That's one thing I'd have to give the author of the original posted article though: he hit the "nothing new here" problem with GM right on the head.

[justbob]

Good money? In whose eyes? Some of you would freak if you saw what I make as a union Plumber.

So all those mortgages on the buildings, property tax, the countless automated machines and computers, the fine people who service all that, maintenance, and oh yeah, miss management has ZERO to do with their failure? I could go on and on here.

Please...



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[guspech750]

Good money? In whose eyes? Some of you would freak if you saw what I make as a union Plumber.

So all those mortgages on the buildings, property tax, the countless automated machines and computers, the fine people who service all that, maintenance, and oh yeah, miss management has ZERO to do with their failure? I could go on and on here.

Please...



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Hmmmmm. Maybe we should start hiring plumbers from Japan and China then right Bob?





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[whitey]

Hmmmmm. Maybe we should start hiring plumbers from Japan and China then right Bob?





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Dont worry, the hispanics are already doing that.......ask me how I know:mad2:

[tbone]

Yo Tom. Last I saw, Bush too gave GM almost 20 billion in loans. Was that to help the unions too? I didn't think so.


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Yo Joe - He shouldn't have done it either. But Obama did owe the unions favors. Do you deny that Democrats and unions are in bed together?

[justbob]

In bed meaning financial backing and votes? Then yes. Oh but wait, that means that anyone who has voted Democrat or even worse supported them financially is also in bed with them 😱

That's one BIG azz bed! 👀


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[sailsmen]

Did Bush violate the Law by placing preferred creditors at the back of the line and making unpreferred creditors, the UAW and the Gov't, preferred creditors? Did Bush illegally give 20% of GM to the UAW?

Then Obama has the gaul to critize the banks for not lending money! How can they when Obama can just nullify their loans???

[guspech750]

Yo Joe - He shouldn't have done it either. But Obama did owe the unions favors. Do you deny that Democrats and unions are in bed together?

They are all in bed together. They all do what they have to do to get ahead. They all suck.


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[jerrym3]

Yo Joe - He shouldn't have done it either. But Obama did owe the unions favors. Do you deny that Democrats and unions are in bed together?

TBone, in all seriousness, I want to personally thank you for not trashing the name of the President of the United States in your last few posts.

Maybe there's still hope that we can exist as a country of Americans with varied opinions.

As far as paying back favors, isn't that what all poiticians have done for decades?

Do we really believe that all the contributions to politicians and their causes. left or right, are done without expecting something in return?

As for unions in particular, my dad came from Italy when he was a very young boy. He never even graduated grammar school. (He used to joke how
5th grade was the happiest three years of his life.) But, he was a good man with a good work ethic.

He got a decent paying Steelworkers job with Alcoa Aluminum, saved money, bought a house, and we lived a little bit of the American dream. (I also worked for Alcoa for a while.)

Eventually, Alcoa moved out of Jersey to cheaper surroundings in Pa, and he lost his job. (I lost my job too. Then, I wound up with a Ford/UAW job as a parts "picker-packer" until I got my BS degree at nights.)

So, he was forced to become a truck driver/snow plower/odd jobs guy for a local County Park making a lot less, but I was of working age, so I did what I could to help out.

Did unions get too strong? Absolutely.

I pi**ed off my neice's husband, a police officer, when I told him that I can afford to pay him when he works; but, I can't afford to pay him, and his replacement, when he retires. Same goes for my son-in-law, who is a Federal Air Marshall.

As a young supervisor in a ILGWU shop in the early 70's, the union rep threatend me to "play ball" with him, or ten workers would swear that I hit him, and I'd be out of a job.

His parting words, "hey, I hear your having your first child. Congrats!" Nice guy.

But, especially here in very expensive North Jersey, there has to be a happy medium. We can't shift decent, not great, paying jobs overseas and expect people to live on peanuts.

People with decent paying jobs pay taxes. People making wages that can just about make ends meet either pay very little taxes or nothing at all.

And, unemployed people collect unemployment, for a while, but even that "gravy train" ends.

Being 100% honest, I don't have an answer.

[sailsmen]

The only answer is to reduce the size of Gov't.

In the past 10 years Fed spending has doubled and State spending has increased 70%.

In 2o years Fed spenbding will equal 100% of GDP. Then what???

[tbone]

TBone, in all seriousness, I want to personally thank you for not trashing the name of the President of the United States in your last few posts.

Maybe there's still hope that we can exist as a country of Americans with varied opinions.

As far as paying back favors, isn't that what all poiticians have done for decades?

Do we really believe that all the contributions to politicians and their causes. left or right, are done without expecting something in return?

As for unions in particular, my dad came from Italy when he was a very young boy. He never even graduated grammar school. (He used to joke how
5th grade was the happiest three years of his life.) But, he was a good man with a good work ethic.

He got a decent paying Steelworkers job with Alcoa Aluminum, saved money, bought a house, and we lived a little bit of the American dream. (I also worked for Alcoa for a while.)

Eventually, Alcoa moved out of Jersey to cheaper surroundings in Pa, and he lost his job. (I lost my job too. Then, I wound up with a Ford/UAW job as a parts "picker-packer" until I got my BS degree at nights.)

So, he was forced to become a truck driver/snow plower/odd jobs guy for a local County Park making a lot less, but I was of working age, so I did what I could to help out.

Did unions get too strong? Absolutely.

I pi**ed off my neice's husband, a police officer, when I told him that I can afford to pay him when he works; but, I can't afford to pay him, and his replacement, when he retires. Same goes for my son-in-law, who is a Federal Air Marshall.

As a young supervisor in a ILGWU shop in the early 70's, the union rep threatend me to "play ball" with him, or ten workers would swear that I hit him, and I'd be out of a job.

His parting words, "hey, I hear your having your first child. Congrats!" Nice guy.

But, especially here in very expensive North Jersey, there has to be a happy medium. We can't shift decent, not great, paying jobs overseas and expect people to live on peanuts.

People with decent paying jobs pay taxes. People making wages that can just about make ends meet either pay very little taxes or nothing at all.

And, unemployed people collect unemployment, for a while, but even that "gravy train" ends.

Being 100% honest, I don't have an answer.

It's ludicrous to me that liberals are now preaching not to trash the president and the office in general, but when Bush was in charge, nothing, and I mean NOTHING was off limits.:beatnik:

We can all exist with conservatives criticizing Obama and making fun of him. Besides, it's well deserved.

[duhtroll]

:lol::lol:

Bullsh**.

Go find the threads all of "us" started that were whining about Bush. Count them.

Then compare all of the ones whining about Obama, liberals, etc. since long before Obama was even nominated, much less elected.

Heck - how many political threads were started at all by the 6 or so liberals out of the thousands of members on here?

Then talk. It will take you 5 minutes to learn how wrong your statement is.

There are anti- Bill Clinton threads on this forum and he was gone two+ years before this forum existed. There are plenty of anti-Al Gore posts and he never won the presidency. Every high profile Democrat in the last 15+ years has had their turn being trashed on this forum.

I'll bet without looking that the word "Bush" is mentioned in more threads by conservatives complaining about liberals trashing him, then there are in actual threads trashing him.

This message brought to you by reality. Now back to your regularly scheduled irrational hatred.

Tbone - I see a join date of 2009 on your profile. Maybe you had another profile before, but even if you didn't you have some reading to do about the history of this forum.



It's funny to me that people are preaching not to trash the current president, but when Bush was in charge, nothing, and I mean NOTHING was off limits.:beatnik:

[tbone]

:lol::lol:

Bullsh**.

Go find the threads all of "us" started that were whining about Bush. Count them.

Then compare all of the ones whining about Obama, liberals, etc. since long before Obama was even nominated, much less elected.

Heck - how many political threads were started at all by the 6 or so liberals out of the thousands of members on here?

Then talk. It will take you 5 minutes to learn how wrong your statement is.

There are anti- Bill Clinton threads on this forum and he was gone two+ years before this forum existed. There are plenty of anti-Al Gore posts and he never won the presidency. Every high profile Democrat in the last 15+ years has had their turn being trashed on this forum.

I'll bet without looking that the word "Bush" is mentioned in more threads by conservatives complaining about liberals trashing him, then there are in actual threads trashing him.

This message brought to you by reality. Now back to your regularly scheduled irrational hatred.

Tbone - I see a join date of 2009 on your profile. Maybe you had another profile before, but even if you didn't you have some reading to do about the history of this forum.

I'm not talking about this site Einstein. I'm talking about the nation as a whole. Get a grip.

PS You are not clever in the least, so stop patting yourself on the back.

[duhtroll]

1) Since when is this site responsible for or beholden to the rest of the nation? And why are you bringing your anger from your anecdotal "rest of the nation" here?

2) OK, fine. Prove that the rest of the nation's liberals trashed Bush more than the Conservatives are currently trashing Obama.

What's that?

Oh yeah, you can't. There is so much more information out there that one person couldn't possibly fathom, that to even make the statement is pretty ludicrous, to use your word. But sweeping generalizations based on your own internal anger RULE! :laugh:

So again, why are you bringing it here? You are perpetuating rather than solving the problem.

So stop talking out your a** and people will stop telling you that you are full of hooey.

One need not be clever to point out complete fabrication.


I'm not talking about this site Einstein. I'm talking about the nation as a whole. Get a grip.

PS You are not clever in the least, so stop patting yourself on the back.

[guspech750]

In reality. It's us versus them, the government. People need to get over this BS Republican/Democrat thing. There should be no parties. Parties divide and when that happens we are not as strong. Just like what this Presidency has done more than past Presidents. It's time to get together...................... .... FK it. Just preaching to deaf ears. Carry on gents.


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[justbob]

In reality. It's us versus them, the government. People need to get over this BS Republican/Democrat thing. There should be no parties. Parties divide and when that happens we are not as strong. Just like what this Presidency has done more than past Presidents. It's time to get together...................... .... FK it. Just preaching to deaf ears. Carry on gents.


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Totally agree. Why preach shat that you have NO control over? Some people just get worked up over the dumbest possible things. Politics? There has to be soooomething better to argue about? Something that you may just actually be able to whine about and win.. How about thinking more simple and sticking to bad wait staff, wet newspapers, or the neighbors dog crap hitching a ride on the westerly winds and invading your personal nose space? I prefer battles that have an outcome.


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[PonyUP]

Totally agree. Why preach shat that you have NO control over? Some people just get worked up over the dumbest possible things. Politics? There has to be soooomething better to argue about? Something that you may just actually be able to whine about and win.. How about thinking more simple and sticking to bad wait staff, wet newspapers, or the neighbors dog crap hitching a ride on the westerly winds and invading your personal nose space? I prefer battles that have an outcome.


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Amen and to quote Forrest Gump

"and that's all I have to say about that"


The Ice Bucket Approves of this message

[sailsmen]

Do you mean "Death of a President" released in 2006 filmed as a documentary about the assasination of President Bush including actual footage of President Bush?

From the AP -
"updated 9/1/2006 2:16:19 PM ET
Print
Font:





LONDON — A British television network plans to broadcast a dramatic, documentary-style film about a fictional assassination of President Bush, the network’s head said Thursday.

The program uses actors and digital manipulation of real footage to show a fictional account of Bush being gunned down after delivering a speech in Chicago, Peter Dale, the head of More4, told a news conference.

“Death of a President,” also scheduled to be shown at the Toronto Film Festival in September, focuses on all those linked to the pretend crime — including nearby anti-war protesters, suspects, Secret Service guards and investigators, Dale said.

More4, which is the digital offshoot of Britain’s Channel 4 network, plans to show the program on Oct. 9.

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The White House declined to comment on the network’s announcement, saying it would not dignify the program with a response.

“It’s an extraordinarily gripping and powerful piece of work, a drama constructed like a documentary that looks back at the assassination of George Bush as the starting point for a very gripping detective story,” Dale told reporters.

“It’s a pointed political examination of what the war on terror did to the American body politic,” he said.

Dale said he expected the film would upset some, but defended it as a sophisticated piece of work.

“It’s not sensationalist, or simplistic but a very thought-provoking, powerful drama,” he said. “I hope people will see that the intention behind it is good.”

“Death of a President” is directed by Gabriel Range, whose 2003 TV movie “The Day Britain Stopped” showed what might happen if the country’s transportation network ground to a halt."

[sailsmen]

Susan Roesgen CNN: Bush as Hitler vs. Obama as Hitler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WQbNaXJ8Pw

[sailsmen]

By PATRICK H. CADDELL AND DOUGLAS E. SCHOEN

During the election campaign, Barack Obama sought to appeal to the best instincts of the electorate, to a post-partisan sentiment that he said would reinvigorate our democracy. He ran on a platform of reconciliation—of getting beyond "old labels" of right and left, red and blue states, and forging compromises based on shared values.

President Obama's Inaugural was a hopeful day, with an estimated 1.8 million people on the National Mall celebrating the election of America's first African-American president. The level of enthusiasm, the anticipation and the promise of something better could not have been more palpable.

And yet, it has not been realized. Not at all.

Rather than being a unifier, Mr. Obama has divided America on the basis of race, class and partisanship. Moreover, his cynical approach to governance has encouraged his allies to pursue a similar strategy of racially divisive politics on his behalf.
The 'Beer Summit': President Barack Obama, right, and Vice President Joe Biden, left, have a beer with Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr., second from left, and Cambridge, Mass. police Sgt. James Crowley in the Rose Garden of the White House, July 30, 2009.

We have seen the divisive approach under Republican presidents as well—particularly the administrations of Richard Nixon and George W. Bush. It was wrong then, and it is wrong now. By dividing America, Mr. Obama has brought our government to the brink of a crisis of legitimacy, compromising our ability to address our most important policy issues.

We say this with a heavy heart. Both of us share the president's stated vision of what America can and should be. The struggle for equal rights has animated both of our lives. Both of us were forged politically during the crucible of the civil rights movement. Having worked in the South during the civil rights movement, and on behalf of the ground-breaking elections of African-American mayors such as David Dinkins, Harold Washington and Emanuel Cleaver, we were deeply moved by Mr. Obama's election.

The first hint that as president Mr. Obama would be willing to interject race into the political dialogue came last July, when he jumped to conclusions about the confrontation between Harvard Prof. Henry Louis "Skip" Gates and the Cambridge police.

During a press conference, the president said that the "Cambridge police acted stupidly," and he went on to link the arrest with the "long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately."

In truth, the Gates incident appears to have had nothing to do with race—a Cambridge review committee that investigated the incident ruled on June 30 that there was fault on both sides.

Sen. Jon Kyl (R., Ariz.) has said the president told him in a closed-door meeting that he would not move to secure the border with Mexico unless and until Congress reached a breakthrough on comprehensive immigration reform. That's another indication Mr. Obama is willing to continue to play politics with hot-button issues.

Add in the lawsuit against the Arizona immigration law and it's clear the Obama administration is willing to run the risk of dividing the American people along racial and ethnic lines to mobilize its supporters—particularly Hispanic voters, whose backing it needs in the fall midterm elections and beyond.

As the Washington Post reported last week, two top White House strategists, speaking on condition of anonymity, have indicated that "the White House plans to use the immigration debate to punish the GOP and aggressively seek the Latino vote in 2012."

On an issue that has gotten much less attention, but is potentially just as divisive, the Justice Department has pointedly refused to prosecute three members of the New Black Panther Party for voter intimidation at the polls on Election Day 2008.

It is the job of the Department of Justice to protect all American voters from voter discrimination and voter intimidation—whether committed by the far right, the far left, or the New Black Panthers. It is unacceptable for the Department of Justice to continue to stonewall on this issue.

During the 2008 presidential campaign, Mr. Obama's campaign emphasized repeatedly that his minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, was being unfairly stereotyped because of racially incendiary sound bites that allegedly did not reflect the totality of his views. In the Gates incident and others, Mr. Obama has resorted to similar forms of stereotyping.

Even the former head of the Civil Rights Commission, Mary Frances Berry, acknowledged that the Obama administration has taken to polarizing America around the issue of race as a means of diverting attention away from other issues, saying: "the charge of racism is proving to be an effective strategy for Democrats. . . . Having one's opponent rebut charges of racism is far better than discussing joblessness."

The president had a unique opportunity to focus on overarching issues of importance to whites and blacks. He has failed to address the critical challenges. He has not used his bully pulpit to emphasize the importance of racial unity and the common interest of poor whites and blacks who need training, job opportunities, and the possibility of realizing the American Dream. He hasn't done enough to address youth unemployment—which in the white community is 23.2% and in the black community is 39.9%.

Mr. Obama has also cynically divided the country on class lines. He has taken to playing the populist card time and time again. He bashes Wall Street and insurance companies whenever convenient to advance his programs, yet he has been eager to accept campaign contributions and negotiate with these very same banks and corporations behind closed doors in order to advance his political agenda.

Finally, President Obama also exacerbated partisan division, and he has made it clear that he intends to demonize the Republicans and former President George W. Bush in the fall campaign. In April, the Democratic National Committee released a video in which the president directly addressed his divide-and-conquer campaign strategy, with an appeal to: "young people, African-Americans, Latinos, and women who powered our victory in 2008 [to] stand together once again."


President Obama's divisive approach to governance has weakened us as a people and paralyzed our political culture. Meanwhile, the Republican leadership has failed to put forth an agenda that is more positive, unifying or inclusive. We are stronger when we debate issues and purpose, and we are all weaker when we divide by race and class. We will pay a price for this type of politics.

Mr. Caddell served as a pollster for President Jimmy Carter. Mr. Schoen, who served as a pollster for President Bill Clinton, is the author of "The Political Fix" (Henry Holt, 2010).

[jerrym3]

It's ludicrous to me that liberals are now preaching not to trash the president and the office in general, but when Bush was in charge, nothing, and I mean NOTHING was off limits.:beatnik:

We can all exist with conservatives criticizing Obama and making fun of him. Besides, it's well deserved.

You are confusing being critical with being disrespectful. Critisize all you want.

And, since when do two wrongs make a right?

Where are we, in a playground?

He started it; no, He STARTED it; no, HE STARTED IT.........

Wonder how many would call Bush, Clinton, Cheney, or OBama disrespectful names to their faces? Would you?

It's so much easier when you sit in front of a screen with a mouse and keyboard and just hit the "enter" key anonymously, isn't it?

Regadless of who wins, I hope he succeeds.

[sailsmen]

President Clinton was Impeached and his Law License suspended. He admitted that he mislead the Public with his famous statement, "I did not have sex with that woman..".

Any President that was Impeached and had their Law License suspended and mislead the Public should be "bashed".

I do not want Obama to succeed with his plan for complete financial collapse to achieve "Social Justice" by income redistribution.:mad2:

[duhtroll]

OMG you are actually trying to convince. You really are.

Look dude, you can copy and paste until the server runs out of storage. It isn't going to change a thing.

You are demonstrating the entirety of pointlessness behind spewing hate on internet boards. You are convincing no one that didn't already agree with you, so that would be no one.

Or do you really think you are going to make me, jerry, kernie and anyone else read JUST ONE MORE copied post and think we are going to blink several times and say "WOW! That really opened my eyes! You are SOOOO right dude!"

Do you think we even read them?

Really?

You know what, I don't see much difference between Romney and Obama -- despite what R says you all know he is far more moderate than the party wants him to be. So I don't think the presidential race matters anywhere near as much as the Congressional races.

But I hope Obama wins just so you guys can stew for another 4. :bigcry:


President Clinton was Impeached and his Law License suspended. He admitted that he mislead the Public with his famous statement, "I did not have sex with that woman..".

Any President that was Impeached and had their Law License suspended and mislead the Public should be "bashed".

I do not want Obama to succeed with his plan for complete financial collapse to achieve "Social Justice" by income redistribution.:mad2:

[babbage]

Actually Salisman is pretty good with facts. I dislike Obama and the liberals even more after reading them.

[tbone]

1) Since when is this site responsible for or beholden to the rest of the nation? And why are you bringing your anger from your anecdotal "rest of the nation" here?

2) OK, fine. Prove that the rest of the nation's liberals trashed Bush more than the Conservatives are currently trashing Obama.

What's that?

Oh yeah, you can't. There is so much more information out there that one person couldn't possibly fathom, that to even make the statement is pretty ludicrous, to use your word. But sweeping generalizations based on your own internal anger RULE! :laugh:

So again, why are you bringing it here? You are perpetuating rather than solving the problem.

So stop talking out your a** and people will stop telling you that you are full of hooey.

One need not be clever to point out complete fabrication.

I did not once say this site is responsible for anything. I was speaking in generalizations. You led it here to this point. You can't tolerate and HATE anyone who disagrees with you. I thought liberals were so "tolerant". Apparently, you are not.

I did not say that liberals trashed Bush MORE than Obama, but it was much more vicious. My point is that when we do it, you guys cry like little babies. When you do it, it is somehow "justified".

Libs trashed Bush unmercifully. I don't have to prove a thing. If you were paying attention, you would know it's true. Watch and read more than MSNBC and the NY Times. I could point to a bunch of examples, and then you would deride me for pasting or quoting facts. You know, those pesky things called FACTS? Why don't you "prove" that I'm wrong? Oh yeah, YOU CAN'T!

I'm angry? READ your own posts, full of piss and vinegar, like most of your ilk.

You think you rule? OK, and I'm the Pope. Get over yourself.

[RF Overlord]

OK, this thread has been derailed by the usual culprits from "GM's bankrupt...again" to "let's bash the Presidential candidates".

Nothing to see here, folks...move along.