Horsepower Estimates and Opinions

[tbone]

Opinions on horsepower please.

At the Crank:
Factory 302
SW Headers 45 ?
Zack Tune 25 ?
JLT 10 ?
Steeda Pulleys 10 ?
______
392 ?

At the Rear Wheels:
392
Less Gear Loss -78 ?
2800-3200 TC 35 ?
4.10 Gears 20?
MMX Driveshaft 5 ?
______
369 ?

Don't flame me, just want opinions. I'm gussing here.:confused:

[sailsmen]

I have seen Stock MMs on a Dyno Jet ~242RWHP. Assuming Ford is accurate with the crank HP Dyno Jet at 302 that means ~60HP in drive train drag.

Some use a % which is incorrect.

In most cases TC, Drive Shaft and 4:10s are not going to have a measurable effect +/- on RWHP.

[SC Cheesehead]

I have seen Stock MMs on a Dyno Jet ~242RWHP. Assuming Ford is accurate with the crank HP Dyno Jet at 302 that means ~60HP in drive train drag.

Some use a % which is incorrect.

In most cases TC, Drive Shaft and 4:10s are not going to have a measurable effect +/- on RWHP.

^^^^^ Agreed ^^^^^^^

Gears and a TC will improve responsiveness on the low end due to multiplication of torque, but won't add any HP.


Not certain you'd see a 45 hp gain with headers on a NA car, especailly if the rest of the exhaust system is stock. As for the CAI, the factory air box was designed by Roush and actually flows very well, the CAI will give you more noise han power, IMO. I'd say maybe 5 hp.

I'd estimate 5-7 hp from the pulleys, and (just a guess here) 18 to 25 hp from the tune.

[babbage]

Opinions on horsepower please.

At the Crank:
Factory 302
SW Headers 45 ?
Zack Tune 25 ?
JLT 10 ?
Steeda Pulleys 10 ?
______
392 ?

At the Rear Wheels:
392
Less Gear Loss -78 ?
2800-3200 TC 35 ?
4.10 Gears 20?
MMX Driveshaft 5 ?
______
369 ?

Don't flame me, just want opinions. I'm gussing here.:confused:

Doesn't add up. The best N/A cars (excluding BBS etc) have just over 300 at the wheels and about as much torque. Just get on a dynotune and see.

[Bradley G]

you guessed too high! 30-40 total, tops!:P

[ctrlraven]

Gears and driveshaft add ZERO power. Being NA headers will net you 20-25rwhp most likely.

We have almost the same mods and I was 289rwhp/313tq before adding UDP with about 140-150k miles on the motor. I don't have headers but from my stock manifolds back is all 2.5" stainless mandrel.

[RacerX]

you guessed too high! 30-40 total, tops!:P
Bingo! Some of us didn't listen to others and had to find out for ourselves how hard it is to gain hp na. 1+1+1 does not always equal 3 when you add all the power adders up together. ;)

[Bradley G]

Yeah like sometimes 1 + 1+ 1 = minus one, I hate it when that happens!
Bingo! Some of us didn't listen to others and had to find out for ourselves how hard it is to gain hp na. 1+1+1 does not always equal 3 when you add all the power adders up together. ;)

[Blackened300a]

Opinions on horsepower please.

At the Crank:
Factory 302
SW Headers 45 ?
Zack Tune 25 ?
JLT 10 ?
Steeda Pulleys 10 ?
______
392 ?

At the Rear Wheels:
392
Less Gear Loss -78 ?
2800-3200 TC 35 ?
4.10 Gears 20?
MMX Driveshaft 5 ?
______
369 ?

Don't flame me, just want opinions. I'm gussing here.:confused:

Around 290rwhp and around 310 torque with that combo. High 13 second car in good air.
Converter makes it feel like another 30 horsepower by putting you in the power band from a dig and the 4.10s just makes it feel peppy by keeping the RPMs up a bit higher when cruising. Driveshaft does nothing for performance, just adds a higher critical speed over stock. I have a few more mods then you and dynoed at 296rwhp and 308rwtq. This was all before I installed headers and a full 2 1/2" exhaust. I was also dynoed with a short runner intake which will be repaired very soon and reinstalled.

[tbone]

Hmmmm....a little disappointing. I thought it would be more.
The car feels fast as hell. Especially after the headers. :burnout:

[Bradley G]

I told you last time I drove your car,... it's a freak :beer:
Hmmmm....a little disappointing. I thought it would be more.
The car feels fast as hell. Especially after the headers. :burnout:

[tbone]

I told you last time I drove your car,... it's a freak :beer:

:lol::lol:

[Mr. Man]

Gears and drive shaft add ZERO power. Being NA headers will net you 20-25rwhp most likely.

We have almost the same mods and I was 289rwhp/313tq before adding UDP with about 140-150k miles on the motor. I don't have headers but from my stock manifolds back is all 2.5" stainless mandrel.
While the basic premise of this statement is true would a carbon fiber drive shaft result in higher rwhp, not crank hp? Less rotational mass would seemingly result in less parasitic drag thus creating slightly higher numbers over an aluminum or steel drive shaft?

Discuss.................

[sailsmen]

I think there are too many variables inorder to measure same on todays dynos.

[sailsmen]

Hmmmm....a little disappointing. I thought it would be more.
The car feels fast as hell. Especially after the headers. :burnout:

That is becuase it is. My MM 8 years ago on street tires and fully dressed Chip, UD Pulleys, 4:10, Denso, Thermostat
Stage II Trans, 3,000 Stall, Cobra Exhaust
0.193 1.966 5.686 8.768 80.03 11.452 13.743 98.33



From an old post;
"Watched the Speed Channel last nite Muscle car shoot out. Legendary Motor Cars took the following vehicles as they came from the factory and here's what they did in 1/4 times;
1969 GTO Judge Stage 3 - 14.090
1970 Chevelle LS6 - 13.953
1970 Buick GS Stage 1 -13.960
AMX 390 GoPack - 14.848
1969 429 Boss Mustang - 13.743
1969 Hurst Olds - 13.828."

I drove/rode in a lot of these cars and car that ran in the 13's was very fast.

# YEAR/MODEL ET/MPH ENGINE HP TRANS GEAR SOURCE
1 1997 Viper GTS 12.05@116 V10 450 six-speed 3.07 MM 8/97
2 1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 four-speed 3.54 CC 11/65
3 1990 ZR1 Corvette 12.8@113.8 LT5 350 375 six-speed 3.45 MT 4/90
4 1966 Corvette 427 12.8@112 L72 427 425 four-speed 3.36 CD 11/65
5 1969 Road Runner 12.91@111.8 440 Six BBL 390 four-speed 4.10 SS 6/69
6 1997 Hurst/Firebird 12.99@103.11 350 350 automatic 3.42 MCR 4/5 97
7 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.10@107.12 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 3.54 CC 11/69
8 1992 Viper RT/10 13.1@108 488 V10 400 six-speed 3.07 CD 7/92
9 1970 Chevelle SS454 13.12@107.01 454 LS6 450 four-speed 3.55 CC 11/69
10 1969 Camaro 13.16@110.21 427 ZL1 430 four-speed 4.10 HC 6/69
11 1997 Corvette 13.20@109.3 350 LS-1 345 six-speed 3.42 MT 5/97
12 1997 SLP Camaro SS 13.20@108.8 350 LT4 330 six-speed 3.42 MT 2/97
13 1990 Pontiac Firehawk 13.20@107 350 350 six-speed 3.54 CD 6/91
14 1968 Corvette 13.30@108 427 6V 435 four-speed 3.70 HC 5/68
15 1970 Road Runner 13.34@107.5 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69
16 1970 Buick GS Stage I 13.38@105.5 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70
17 1996 Camaro Z28 SS 13.46@106.48 350 LT-1 310 six-speed 3.42 MCR F/M 96
18 1969 Charger 500 13.48@109 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 4.10 HR 2/69
19 1973 Trans Am 13.54@104.29 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73
20 1969 Corvette 13.56@111.1 427 L88 430 automatic 3.36 HR 4/69
21 1969 Super Bee 13.56@105.6 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
22 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 four-speed 3.91 HC 9/69
23 1970 Challenger R/T 13.62@104.3 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69
24 1970 Torino Cobra 13.63@105.9 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
25 1968 Biscayne 13.65@105 427 L72 425 four-speed 4.56 SS 4/68
26 1995 Mustang Cobra R 13.67@102.82 351 300 five-speed 3.27 MCR A/S 95
27 1964 Polara 500 13.70@107.37 426 4V 365 four-speed 3.23 HC 2/64
28 1996 Corvette GS 13.7@105.1 350 LT-4 330 six-speed 3.45 RT 2/96
29 1969 GTX 13.70@102.8 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69
30 1987 Buick GNX 13.70@102 231 Turbo V6 300 automatic 3.42 HR 4/87
31 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69
32 1971 Road Runner 13.71@101.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71
33 1971 Cuda 13.72@106 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71
34 1971 Corvette 13.72@102.04 454 LS6 450 four-speed 3.36 CL 8/71
35 1971 Super Bee 13.73@104 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70
36 1968 Hurst/Olds 13.77@103.91 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
37 1968 Firebird 13.79@106 400 HO 335 four-speed N/A HR 3/68
38 1967 Corvette 13.80@108 427 6V 435 four-speed 3.55 HR 5/67
39 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80@104 Boss 351 330 four-speed 3.91 MT 1/71
40 1966 Satellite 13.81@104 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 3.54 CD 4/66
41 1969 Coronet R/T 13.83@102.27 440 4V 375 four-speed 4.10 SS 4/69
42 1968 Cyclone GT 13.86@101.69 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68
43 1969 Nova SS 396 13.87@105.1 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69
44 1969 Shelby GT-500 13.87@104.52 428 CJ 335 four-speed 3.91 SS 9/69
45 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 13.88@95.84 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69
46 1962 Corvette 13.89@105.14 327 FI 360 four-speed 4.10 HR 1/62
47 1969 Barracuda 13.89@103.21 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69
48 1969 Mustang Mach I 13.90@103.32 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
49 1967 GTO 13.90@102.8 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67
50 1970 Trans Am 13.90@102 400 RA 345 four-speed 3.91 HR 2/70
Legend: CC=Car Craft, CD=Car and Driver, CL=Car Life, HC=Hi Performance Cars, HR=Hot Rod, MCR=You have to ask?, MM=Mopar Muscle, MT=Motor Trend, SS=Super Stock
http://www.musclecargarage.com/50fastestmusclecars.html

[Chayton]

^^^^^ Agreed ^^^^^^^

Gears and a TC will improve responsiveness on the low end due to multiplication of torque, but won't add any HP.


Not certain you'd see a 45 hp gain with headers on a NA car, especailly if the rest of the exhaust system is stock. As for the CAI, the factory air box was designed by Roush and actually flows very well, the CAI will give you more noise han power, IMO. I'd say maybe 5 hp.

I'd estimate 5-7 hp from the pulleys, and (just a guess here) 18 to 25 hp from the tune.

wow, I've never heard of that before! Whats your sources? not that I don't believe you but I think thats really interesting!

[SC Cheesehead]

wow, I've never heard of that before! Whats your sources? not that I don't believe you but I think thats really interesting!


Among others, Steve Babcock...