Big brakes, finally

[lifespeed]

I have finally worn through my heat treated rotors and ceramic pads. Actually took about 55K miles, with 3 - 4 rotor machinings along the way. Tires are worn too, so the time is right to pull the trigger on the Big Brake upgrade.

Is TCEPerformance still the best when it comes to the proper setup? I plan on getting 14" front, 13" rear, with the aim of maintaining the proper front/rear balance using the stock proportioning built into the ABS.

I read he recently revised the front kit for better wheel clearance. Does this mean the spacer is now thinner? Anybody have experience or knowledge of the change in offset that results, factory wheel offset numbers (is the factory wheel correct resulting in 0 scrub radius?), replacement wheels that will fit the TCE kit while keeping the factory offset, etc? I once had a Crown Victoria where the offset was wrong by less than 0.5" and the result was completely unsatisfactory, so I am pretty concerned about getting this right.

Also noticed that I have to pull the axles to install the rears with a spacer (?) behind the mounting plate or something. I figure with 100K miles this would be the appropriate time to also change the pinion seal, gasket, and limited slip clutches. Maybe axle bearings too. Any comments on this?

[Krytin]

I figure with 100K miles this would be the appropriate time to also change the pinion seal, gasket, and limited slip clutches. Maybe axle bearings too. Any comments on this?

Can't speak from experience on the rest but YES on the above. You may want to just pick up the rear axle/bearing set from Dorman - they come w/tone ring installed, bearing/seal and a complete set of oem lugnuts if you order the Marauder specific part. Runs about $100/axle and fit/run perfect.

[J.bo]

When you put the 14" kit on make sure you post some pics of the install. You may be the first to try it out.

[DOOM]

Wilwoods are the only company that makes a front and rear kit for the marauder!

I have the front kit and love them! :up:

[lifespeed]

Can't speak from experience on the rest but YES on the above. You may want to just pick up the rear axle/bearing set from Dorman - they come w/tone ring installed, bearing/seal and a complete set of oem lugnuts if you order the Marauder specific part. Runs about $100/axle and fit/run perfect.

Thanks for the tip. Maybe I should just switch to 31 spline axles and side gears at the same time. You know, for towing durability and the future hotrod engine. I'm starting to see some project scope creep here . . . :D

[lifespeed]

Wilwoods are the only company that makes a front and rear kit for the marauder!

I have the front kit and love them! :up:

Any info on how they differ from TCE? Obviously TCE uses Wilwood calipers, but the devil is in the details.

Link?

[Krytin]

Thanks for the tip. Maybe I should just switch to 31 spline axles and side gears at the same time. You know, for towing durability and the future hotrod engine. I'm starting to see some project scope creep here . . . :D

Unless you're planning on more than 450 RWHP the 31 spline axles would be overkill IMHO.

[Krytin]

Any info on how they differ from TCE? Obviously TCE uses Wilwood calipers, but the devil is in the details.

Link?

TCE sells the Wilwood kits on this site.

[guspech750]

I love my Wilwoods.

[boatmangc]

My understanding is TCE builds the kits for our cars, Wilwood doesn't build kits for MMs.
TCE takes the calipers and makes them fit. At least for the rears.

[boatmangc]

The new TCE big brake kit is in it's infancy and I am not sure that anyone has purchased a set, I talked to Todd about a set of the new ones just before I had family health issues and had to backpedal.
My understanding is that the new Big Brake kit will JUST clear the stock wheels,
If so that's the kit for me. I will go without (Or just use the original TCE kits) before replacing the MM wheels.
But if you are not building more power, why not just replace the set you had wear out after 55K, add TCE brakelines and keep right on going.
My car is in the 12s and with the TCE lines, good rotors and Hawk pads it stops fairly well.
But Wilwoods will be my next expensive mod to the MM

[lifespeed]

But if you are not building more power, why not just replace the set you had wear out after 55K, add TCE brakelines and keep right on going.
My car is in the 12s and with the TCE lines, good rotors and Hawk pads it stops fairly well.
But Wilwoods will be my next expensive mod to the MM

During the five years I have owned the car I have never been happy with the brakes. In 55K miles I have had to machine the front rotors 3 times and the rear rotors twice. They probably could have used it even more often. They warp far too easily and are undersized garbage, IMHO. This was with Command Automotive (http://www.commandautomotive.com/) cryo-treated rotors and Hawk pads.

I will likely upgrade engine output at some time in the future, but the brakes need replacing now.

I'll have to talk to Todd about his new kit.

[HBTMD]

I never thought there was anything wrong with my brakes until I took a test drive in a Challenger SRT-8 with Brembo brakes. What a big difference:bows:

Best Regards / Howard

2003 MM orig owner, 35,000 miles, Original Factory Brakes, Rinehart tune, SS inserts, Kenwood GPS & Stereo.

[Comin' in Hot]

I never thought there was anything wrong with my brakes until I took a test drive in a Challenger SRT-8 with Brembo brakes. What a big difference

Agreed!!!!! My dd MM has the 14" Baer setup up front and they have tons of stopping power this plenty to spare in an emergency. When I get in my DBP MM, I feel like I have to push the brakes through the floor just to stop.

[MOTOWN]

Agreed!!!!! My dd MM has the 14" Baer setup up front and they have tons of stopping power this plenty to spare in an emergency. When I get in my DBP MM, I feel like I have to push the brakes through the floor just to stop.

I have the 14" BAER kit as well nite and day difference!:banana2:

[Todd TCE]

Thanks for the props guys.

To clear up some confusion; the kit is not a Wilwood kit. It's a TCE kit using, in part, Wilwood calipers and pads. We produce our own hats, a few other items and have custom rotors (required in part due to the necessary fit of the caliper) and hoses etc. made for the car. While others have inquired with Wilwood about the kit they simply refer you back to me. In fact given the low nature volume of the kit and complexity of fit they declined to move forward on an inquiry about the CV and bumped it back to me also.

The 'new' kit is not really so new...I believe there are 2 full 14" front kits in service at this time from years past. The issue with that one was that it was fit with 1.25" wide rotors and required a shallower hat. That in turn moved the rotor center line and the caliper body 'outward' more closer to the wheel. That's bad in Marauder land.

The updated version (of yet to be completed) is a narrow 1.10 casting of 14" which will then use the same hat offset. The caliper body is also slightly narrower than the current model for even more room. The bad news is that 14" discs are more costly as are the radial mount calipers and the required conversion bracket. *Yet still less than dedicated full blown radial mount parts.

The other good news is that it will be "possible" for 13" kit owners to convert. "Practical" to do so? Yeah...maybe not as it will prove costly.


http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/images/FNSL6.jpg


http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/900/950/950-250-6309.jpg

[ctrlraven]

I'm looking forward to buying a red 13" kit in the next several months.

[Todd TCE]

I'm looking forward to buying a red 13" kit in the next several months.

But I was looking forward to selling you one today! :lol:

[ctrlraven]

But I was looking forward to selling you one today! :lol:
I mean yeah you can sell me one today but it will be a little while until you get any money. I can write you an IOU like right now! :lol:

[Accumulator]

While others have inquired with Wilwood about the kit they simply refer you back to me. In fact given the low nature volume of the kit and complexity of fit they declined to move forward on an inquiry about the CV and bumped it back to me also....

Speaking of Crown Vics, do you have a Big Brake Package that'll fit behind '03+ 17" steelies?

[Todd TCE]

Speaking of Crown Vics, do you have a Big Brake Package that'll fit behind '03+ 17" steelies?


By definition; no. If the steel wheel clears the stock caliper to the same extent that the Marauder wheel does then you could infer that the clearance to my kit would be roughly the same.

My guess is that the steel wheel is not as brake friendly (unfriendly really) as the Marauder is making the need for a spacer even greater.


It's not that the car cannot be fit with big brakes. That's very doable. The issue on the CV is that it cannot be done with the stock wheel. Or without the need for a hefty spacer. And honestly I don't see a huge $1500 front big brake market for that car even if it didn't need $1000 in new wheels and tires. Now if I'm wrong and someone wants to step up and ask me to do them a 14" W6A, $2100 kit that's certainly not an issue. After speaking with a variety of folks however I think the desire is a $700 front kit- one that's greatly improved over stock. It would sell very well. And I'd agree. But it's just not going to work that way. If it did; I'd already be doing it!

[Accumulator]

By definition; no. If the steel wheel clears the stock caliper to the same extent that the Marauder wheel does then you could infer that the clearance to my kit would be roughly the same.

My guess is that the steel wheel is not as brake friendly (unfriendly really) as the Marauder is making the need for a spacer even greater...

Right, that's what I'm figuring too, just wondered if you'd ever tried doing it for anybody.




It's not that the car cannot be fit with big brakes. That's very doable. The issue on the CV is that it cannot be done with the stock wheel.
Or without the need for a hefty spacer...

Right, and a) I need to run the stock steelies, and b) I'm not interested in a big spacer.


And honestly I don't see a huge $1500 front big brake market for that car even if it didn't need $1000 in new wheels and tires. Now if I'm wrong and someone wants to step up and ask me to do them a 14" W6A, $2100 kit that's certainly not an issue..

If the clearance is there with the stock steel wheels, I'd understand about having to compensate you generously for your time and effort. We'll see....that "if there's clearance" bit is the kicker though; if it's a deal-breaker then that's that.

I had to go with aftermarket wheels to fit your brakes on a 9C1 a few years ago. Worth it, but I just can't go that route this time.

[Todd TCE]

The answer to the $M question is as follows:

Using the aluminum steering knuckle off the Marauder, and factoring it to be the same as the brother CV knuckle-

17" steel wheel will require 3/8" wheel spacer for the TCE Marauder kit.

An optional caliper (used on the 14" kit) will require only 1/4" spacer. @ $200 up charge. (additional caliper and bracket expense)

Wheel spacers and or longer wheel studs required will not be offered by TCE.

[SC Cheesehead]

Unless you're planning on more than 450 RWHP the 31 spline axles would be overkill IMHO.


^^^^^ What he said.

[Accumulator]

Todd TCE- Thanks for that additional info.

What's *your* opinion on running the spacers? As in, "would you if it were your car?"

I've sorta shied away from the whole idea but I know that others run them (and more than 1/4" ones too).

We *are* assuming about the knuckles, huh...and you know what that can lead to!

[bugsyc]

how many times can the stock rotors be turned or cut???

[Todd TCE]

I'd prefer not to get into quoting the pros and cons to wheel spacers. Like you I've used them when necessary and had no issues. But depending upon how thick they are you may need them to be produced 'hub centric' to support the wheel. If not the wheel is 'stud centric' and supported/located by only the stud circle. *Which will need to be reworked with longer studs.


I was going to say that. ^^^

[fastblackmerc]

how many times can the stock rotors be turned or cut???

Until they are too thin.

It all depends on how much has been taken off previously.

[Accumulator]

Todd TCE- Yeah hub-centric is the way to go period IMO, I just hate to open that potential can of worms as any issues that *did* arise would come after I'd written the big check. Might be "one in a million chance", that I'd have any problems, but if it happens, well you know...

At least you've actually looked into this enough to know what's called for so now I know more than I did previously, so thanks again for the info.

[HBTMD]

Well, after all of the information here on the Marauder Board, I pulled the trigger and purchased a brand new Baer 14" front Brake kit for my 2003 Black MM. :banana2:

It should arrive within the week.

All I have to do is find a good mechanic in the Las Vegas area to install it.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. :beer:

Howard in Fresno & Las Vegas

Orig Owner 2003 MM in Black with 35,000 miles
Reinhart tune
Reinhart K&N Cold Induction
SS Inserts
Kenwood GPS and Stereo

[MOTOWN]

Well, after all of the information here on the Marauder Board, I pulled the trigger and purchased a brand new Baer 14" front Brake kit for my 2003 Black MM. :banana2:

It should arrive within the week.

All I have to do is find a good mechanic in the Las Vegas area to install it.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. :beer:

Howard in Fresno & Las Vegas

Orig Owner 2003 MM in Black with 35,000 miles
Reinhart tune
Reinhart K&N Cold Induction
SS Inserts
Kenwood GPS and Stereo

I have the same kit, make sure you order a set of the TCE SS brake lines, they really enhance the Baer kit you will be glad you did!:banana:

[HBTMD]

Thanks for the info. I took your sage advice and ordered a set of SS Brake lines from TCE. :beer:

They seem to be on sale for about $160 a set. That is less expensive than conventional brake lines on ebay.:banana:

Best Regards

Howard

[MOTOWN]

Thanks for the info. I took your sage advice and ordered a set of SS Brake lines from TCE. :beer:

They seem to be on sale for about $160 a set. That is less expensive than conventional brake lines on ebay.:banana:

Best Regards

Howard

Make sure you have your seatbelt on when you hit the brakes!, after i got mines bleed the Midas techs got a good chuckle out of me becoming familiar to the new stopping power!:banana: Excellent choice!

[tallpaul]

I have the I can't afford the big brake brake kit from the factory and it works o.k.:(

[HBTMD]

I am back in Vegas now.

Heading over to Catskill Automotive in Henderson tomorrow to have my Baer front brake kit and 4 TCE stainless steel brake lines installed. :banana:

Regards / Howard :beer:

[HBTMD]

Just had the superb maechanics at Catskill Automotive in Henderson, Nevada install my Baer 14 inch front brake kit and TCE SS brake lines. :bows:

What a wonderful improvement in brake performance and feel.

Well worth the cost of the kit, SS lines and Master Mechanics Labor.

Now the MM brakes are as marvelous as the engine,transmission and other high performance parts of the car. :banana:

I will be in Henderson & Las Vegas for the next 6 days. Wave if you see me.

Regards / Howard :beer:

Original owner 2003 Black MM 35,000 miles
Baer 14" front brake kit
TCE SS Lines
Reinhart tune & Cold Air Intake
SS inserts
Kenwood GPS & Stereo

[MOTOWN]

Sounds like your pleased with your brake upgade enjoy!

[boatmangc]

Make sure you break them in correctly.

[HBTMD]

I have been driving around Las Vegas and Henderson since yesterday to brake in my new Baer 14" front brake kit.

I was driving down a major road in Henderson at the 55 mph limit. Suddenly, without warning some #&!**# Hole drove through a stop sign just to the right of me. :flamer: :argue: :eek::eek:

I instinctively slammed on the brakes and prayed. The antilock brakes started to pulsate and I stopped just in the nick of time.

I doubt I would have fared so well with the original equipment police interceptor brakes. :bows:

Baer came through in a trial by fire. :bows::bows::bows::banana::ban ana::banana:

Regards / Howard

Orig Owner 2003 Black MM 35,000 miles
Baer Front Brake Kit
TCE SS Brake Lines
Kenwood GPS & Stereo
Reinhart Tune & Cold Air Intake
SS Inserts