MMR Head Porting

[ctrlraven]

Anyone use MMR for their head porting services?

[dohc324ci]

Yes shipping is gonna cost you though. Ask how much is shipping so you can factor in cost. I recieved the stage III port ill pull up and post up tonight. After the Giants win;)

[J-MAN]

Yes shipping is gonna cost you though. Ask how much is shipping so you can factor in cost. I recieved the stage III port ill pull up and post up tonight. After the Giants win;)

We see that game three hours earlier in Detroit. The Giants lost!

[MOTOWN]

We see that game three hours earlier in Detroit. The Giants lost!

LMAO!!!!:lol:

[MOTOWN]

Yes shipping is gonna cost you though. Ask how much is shipping so you can factor in cost. I recieved the stage III port ill pull up and post up tonight. After the TIGERS win;)

FIXED it bud;)

[LANDY]

Fox lake for porting. Even tho i dont recomend it unless your pushing over 20psi. Just do a 5 angle valve job and slap them back on.

[Vortech347]

My friend just had his 03' Cobra heads done there. The car made 575rwhp with a small 60 shot of nitrous and a ported eaton.

[dohc324ci]

Booom! 4-0!

[WhatsUpDOHC]

Booom! 4-0!
Epic.

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[djs2000mgm]

I believe they've stopped doing work on 4v heads.

[dohc324ci]

^^where did you get that info?

Goodnight Tigers! We will leave the lights on for you;) Barry Zito RBI? 5-0 Giants!

[burt ragio]

Fox lake for porting. Even tho i dont recomend it unless your pushing over 20psi. Just do a 5 angle valve job and slap them back on.

What is a 5 angle valve job ?

[Billy]

I believe they've stopped doing work on 4v heads.

Are you confusing MHS and MMR?

[Jeronimojc]

Fox lake for porting. Even tho i dont recomend it unless your pushing over 20psi. Just do a 5 angle valve job and slap them back on.

@Landy or anyone else, is the sense here then that the cost of porting heads and a 5 angle valve job (MMR approx $1500) doesn't provide enough bang for the buck even with say 10 to 16 psi of boost?

Old thread, I know. Thanks.

[Jeronimojc]

No comments?

Been doing some reading about this. If I understand things correctly, our heads already flow very well. The limiting factor is really in the cams. One would need to go with hotter cams to really take advantage of our engine's air flow potential. Porting heads may make sense for someone making some serious power (over 600HP), by then cams would likely be also part of the equation.

So I'll probably focus my mods to supercharging and forgo any porting, at least for the foreseeable future.


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[MOTOWN]

No comments?

Been doing some reading about this. If I understand things correctly, our heads already flow very well. The limiting factor is really in the cams. One would need to go with hotter cams to really take advantage of our engine's air flow potential. Porting heads may make sense for someone making some serious power (over 600HP), by then cams would likely be also part of the equation.

So I'll probably focus my mods to supercharging and forgo any porting, at least for the foreseeable future.


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Cams are not a good investment on a Marauder, none are made specifically for our cars, your looking at $1200 for just the cams, labor is going to be another grand (unless you can diy) and degree them.

This is why most just S/C, its the most cost effective go fast mod for the Marauder/Modular motor.

[Jeronimojc]

I hear you. I just didn't understand why other common engine mods aren't effective on our cars. Now I am starting to get it. Thanks!


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[cat in the hat]

I hear you. I just didn't understand why other common engine mods aren't effective on our cars. Now I am starting to get it. Thanks!


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Agreed. The cam and valve job were the first things you did on pushrod 302's. Picking the cam was the most important part of the build - you damn near built the whole car around the cam in those days IME.

[justbob]

Cams are a great choice once you've already S/C'ed and done all the exhaust upgrades and are bored with that. They can bring on some good added power when power is already being made.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[LOWBUCKMM]

Cams are a great choice once you've already S/C'ed and done all the exhaust upgrades and are bored with that. They can bring on some good added power when power is already being made.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

And they sound damn good also.

[justbob]

And they sound damn good also.


What he said!^ I really don't care if they do squat really. Sound alone was well worth the small cost!


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[Jeronimojc]

Cams are not a good investment on a Marauder, none are made specifically for our cars, your looking at $1200 for just the cams, labor is going to be another grand (unless you can diy) and degree them.


Guys, I've continued to wonder what is the limiting factor on our engines and I keep on thinking it goes back to the cams. Just to avoid tangents, most if not all of us agree that the best bang for the buck is going S/C. Back to cams; Messing with cams to me (a novice) is intimidating and seemingly too expensive for the potential HP gains. However, I spent a few hours browsing the mustang forums to see what the 03-04 guys are doing and I am starting to see a trend. It seems a powerful combo is S/C, 03-04 (NOT ported) heads, and 98 Cobra cams. What makes this more interesting is 98 Cobra cams are VERY affordable.

Why are 98 cobra cams not something we would be more interested in? I think torque may suffer somewhere in the low RPM range (?), but the total power gains may warrant the mod. Would love to get your thoughts on this.

Below is a setup that caught my eye.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/01/tevequ7e.jpg


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[Jeronimojc]

Sorry, maybe this should be a new thread. ?


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[massacre]

The B head Cobra cams are well documented, I'm sure some members here are running them in their C heads, I am ;)
Most here just slap on blower and go.

[Jeronimojc]

Just searched the site. Looks like you are very knowledgeable on the subject. Though for some reason some of your posts were deleted. Hope you don't mind if I PM you some questions.


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[justbob]

Meh. Go bigger.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[massacre]

Just searched the site. Looks like you are very knowledgeable on the subject. Though for some reason some of your posts were deleted. Hope you don't mind if I PM you some questions.

Back then I was one of the few in the Modular community that was degreeing cams, and I was publicly ridiculed here by the "experts" because degreeing cams was "a huge waste of time and money" :bs:
So I deleted my posts and now I just pretend to know nothing, it's just easier lol.

So sure PM me with any questions, I'll always try to help if I can. I've degreed a lot of cams and picked up power every time ;)

P.S. you don't lose power down low with properly degreed 98 Cobra cams.

[sflrainmaker01]

Dumb question, what heads does the Marauder use? I see "B" heads, "C" heads etc.

[massacre]

Marauders have C heads.

[sflrainmaker01]

Marauders have C heads.

So, from what I can tell, those are the same heads that came on the Mach1 and 03/04 Cobra.

[justbob]

So, from what I can tell, those are the same heads that came on the Mach1 and 03/04 Cobra.


Correct.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[massacre]

The '99-'01 Cobras and Continentals got C heads as well, but they have slightly bigger combustion chambers and intake/exhaust ports that don't flow quite as well as the '03-'04 heads.

[Spectragod]

The B head Cobra cams are well documented, I'm sure some members here are running them in their C heads, I am ;)
Most here just slap on blower and go.

I went with Crower's blower cams. Mine are not degree'd just dot to dot. :(

[massacre]

IIRC Bill (RacerX) is running Crower cams, I think he picked up some power but his were definitely degreed.

[clmrt]

http://www.modularheadshop.com/camdegree.aspx

I had to google. Not DOHC, but...

[cat in the hat]

WhatsUpDOHC is also running Crowers.

[MOTOWN]

Of all the members with aftermarket cams, who has seen an actual gain in hp?

[massacre]

You will see gains with '96-'98 Cobra cams if set up properly, no aftermarket needed.

[MOTOWN]

You will see gains with '96-'98 Cobra cams if set up properly, no aftermarket needed.

I have a set, just too lazy to install, and degree them!:mad:

[justbob]

Of all the members with aftermarket cams, who has seen an actual gain in hp?


Sorry, I really couldn't say as I swapped to a cobra block and added an average of 7#'s more boost at the same time as the cams. I have yet to get re dynoed after the full S.W. Treatment but without that added in I can say my numbers prior were 455/431 and now it's 461/487 so there was a big jump in torque from the combined combo of each. More boost the cause? Cams? Really couldn't say.

I can say I originally planned to degree them but worked literally up the minute of dyno and had to cut that corner. I can also say the cams were never intended for power but for sound alone. Any extra power was merely a benefit over the priority. I am quite positive that I way over did it in boost and I more or less left some ponies on the table due to heat, unported, lack of a good cooling method, and quite frankly inlet and design of the blower. When it goes back in with the Trilogy or the D-1 for that matter I plan to drop it off with extra pulleys/belts and address the cooling prior and see what works best. Maybe I can get her close to other members combos without cams to compare. Problem is different tuners alone will greatly affect a fair outcome to compare.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[Jeronimojc]

Cam swap HP gains? Take a look at the number of S/C 03-04 mustangs with stock heads and 98 cams and their gains. Compare these to similar setups with stock cams. The gains are significantly pronounced when cam swaps are accompanied with forged internals and high boost numbers. Perhaps an overly simplistic approach, but to me cam swaps appear to make a significant HP gain.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?837457-The-Official-Centrifugal-Pulley-Boost-Combo-Thread!!!



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[Spectragod]

Of all the members with aftermarket cams, who has seen an actual gain in hp?

No clue if I got a gain from the cams, 521 hp & 526 tq on a very conservative tune that I could drive across the country. It has enough power to merge on the highway, I can say that.:D

Maybe I'll get a wild hair and degree them, retune and all that, maybe a small 300 shot to go with it..... :rolleyes:

[MOTOWN]

Cam swap HP gains? Take a look at the number of S/C 03-04 mustangs with stock heads and 98 cams and their gains. Compare these to similar setups with stock cams. The gains are significantly pronounced when cam swaps are accompanied with forged internals and high boost numbers. Perhaps an overly simplistic approach, but to me cam swaps appear to make a significant HP gain.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?837457-The-Official-Centrifugal-Pulley-Boost-Combo-Thread!!!



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You cannot in any way shape or form compare a Mustang cam swap to a Marauder cam swap!

This is most common mistake made, these cams you speak of are designed , and built for a Mustang , and not a 4,400 lb Marauder with an automatic trans.

For a cam to show its intended gains, it has to be built for its application , not borrowed from a car thats 1000 lbs lighter , with a manual trans.

[Jeronimojc]

I highly respect your opinion. Custom cams would be great for sure, no doubt. The question is are degreed Cobra 98 cams an improvement from our stock cams even though they were designed for lighter vehicles? HP and TQ gains throughout the RPM range would suggest so. Hopefully someone can prove this with a before/after dyno chart. Until then, this is only hearsay and speculation on my part.


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[MOTOWN]

I highly respect your opinion. Custom cams would be great for sure, no doubt. The question is are degreed Cobra 98 cams an improvement from our stock cams even though they were designed for lighter vehicles? HP and TQ gains throughout the RPM range would suggest so. Hopefully someone can prove this with a before/after dyno chart. Until then, this is only hearsay and speculation on my part.


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I do believe the 98 cobra cams when degreed in properly will show an improvement over the stock cams , which are 03/04 cobra cams with less lift/duration than the 96-98 Cobra cams.

I have a set of the 96-98 Cobra cams laying around, maybe ill try them when i change valve springs.

[massacre]

Advancing the intake centerline in the Modular engines will promote torque production whether the engine is in a focus or a Grand Marquis station wagon.

The weight of the car has little to do with that, that's what rearend gears and good suspension are for. You always want more torque and HP if it's cheap, no matter how big or small the car is IMHO.

Another advantage of the 4v over the 2v is the ability to independently set the intake and exhaust cams' centerlines and change the LSA.
2v guys can't do that.

On the Corral it was dyno proven that the B head cams make great power all through the powerband, an increase up top with no loss down low.

[MOTOWN]

Advancing the intake centerline in the Modular engines will promote torque production whether the engine is in a focus or a Grand Marquis station wagon.

The weight of the car has little to do with that, that's what rearend gears and good suspension are for. You always want more torque and HP if it's cheap, no matter how big or small the car is IMHO.

Another advantage of the 4v over the 2v is the ability to independently set the intake and exhaust cams' centerlines and change the LSA.
2v guys can't do that.

On the Corral it was dyno proven that the B head cams make great power all through the powerband, an increase up top with no loss down low.

I agree with you for the most part , but the weight of a car is critical where cam selection comes into play (as does trans type), and its part of the reason most cams designed for a Mustang do not perform well at all in a Marauder the profiles would need to be totally different to achieve the same results in a heavier car.

[chief455]

Advancing the intake centerline in the Modular engines will promote torque production whether the engine is in a focus or a Grand Marquis station wagon.

The weight of the car has little to do with that, that's what rearend gears and good suspension are for. You always want more torque and HP if it's cheap, no matter how big or small the car is IMHO.

Another advantage of the 4v over the 2v is the ability to independently set the intake and exhaust cams' centerlines and change the LSA.
2v guys can't do that.

On the Corral it was dyno proven that the B head cams make great power all through the powerband, an increase up top with no loss down low.
As a rule of thumb, a camshaft designed for a lighter manual trans car, can be made to work in a heavier, automatic trans car by advancing the intake centerline, utilizing a stall convertor and steeper rearend gearing.
The changes will produce torque lower in the rpm band, and move the additional weight sooner off idle.
On the 4V motor I can only speculate this would still hold true, with possible further benefits from being able to retain the later exhaust valve events by keeping its centerline as designed, effectively widening the LSA, as massacre pointed out.
The wider LSA will create a broader power range, which the heavy cars typically like. The advanced ICL will start the power at lower rpm, which will get the weight moving sooner.
Still, camshafts will perform best when used in their intended application, as MOTOWN pointed out.
Reading camshaft design information from the leading manufacturers is extremely helpful in understanding the cause and effect of valve events.

[massacre]

Geezus you guys are killing me :confused:

Being able to adjust both cams independently means you can change the LSA of both banks to suit the car. Weight, size, age, color, day of the week, etc.
You can set the cam centerlines wherever you want.

"These cams" and "those cams" become much more similar when you have so much more adjustability.

[Chevyguy]

Geezus you guys are killing me :confused:

Being able to adjust both cams independently means you can change the LSA of both banks to suit the car. Weight, size, age, color, day of the week, etc.
You can set the cam centerlines wherever you want.

"These cams" and "those cams" become much more similar when you have so much more adjustability.

I gotta do this I have 96 cobra cams waiting

http://www.proweldperformanceparts.co m/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/4_6LDOHC2.jpg

[Jeronimojc]

I wasn't going to mess with cams, but found (and bought) these cobra 98 cams for $160. Now I am excited about the swap. Will degree and advance the intake. It will be a while before I get to it though. 39275


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[ctrlraven]

I wasn't going to mess with cams, but found (and bought) these cobra 98 cams for $160. Now I am excited about the swap. Will degree and advance the intake. It will be a while before I get to it though. 39275


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You'll need a few extra parts to go along with them

This is what info I was given from Todd "na svt"


Valve job, valve seats opened up, new seals, stock valves and mill them .030". You'll need the following:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-P9139/ 2ea
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-S790HP9/ 2 ea
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-51800505/ 1ea
Set the cams at 108/112