New build running way too hot Please help

[c_stauffer]

Hello all,
This is my first posting so please bear with me. I have a 03 that I just rebuilt with all new internals and it is running hot. The only original piece is the engine block. New everything else. I put it in the car and it fired right up. After it warms up under a normal driving load the temp goes to just below the red line. I have read & re read the procedure for burping & have burped the car 3 times now. The fan is coming on when it heats up, the thermostat is installed in the correct orientation (hat facing down in housing bulb facing up or to the engine (warm) side) The thermostat is opening because the lower hose on the driver’s side is getting warm. I read that if you open the burping plug after the car is properly burped you should notice coolant flow through the crossover pipe. I do NOT seem to observe any flow there. I had to limp it home the other day and had the heater on and it was blowing hot air. Then it started blowing cool air (ambient temperature). My friend was driving behind me and reported that I was blowing a little water from the passenger side underneath. I can assume that it was coming from the overflow tube as there are no leaks anywhere else. So what am I missing??? This car is my baby and it has been down for over a year with the rebuild. I'm so frustrated I almost contemplated trading it in. I'm leaning towards a water pump at this time. Anyone else have any ideas??
Please help!

[Curless]

You are air locked my friend...get a hold of a device like this...http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_50135_36/astro_pneumatic_ap_78585_coola nt_pressure_tester__.html

Or have a local shop that has one of these bleed it out for you.

[SC Cheesehead]

^^^^^ What Chris said; sounds like you need to burp.

Check out this link.

http://reischeperformance.com/refill.html

[JBFTech]

+1 on the tool, vacuum filling is the way to go. I've never had issues with air pockets or had to burp a cooling system after using my vac filler.


Sent from my SR-71 using Tapatalk

[c_stauffer]

test test My work computer is acting up too!

[c_stauffer]

I have ordered the Coolant Pressure Tester & Vacuum Fill Kit & it’s on the way. In the mean time I jacked the front of the car and burped it again. I ran it for about 45 minutes with the funnel in the crossover and a thermometer in the funnel. The water stabilized at about 190 degrees with the system unpressurized. I got a lot of air out of it. I let it cool and continued to monitor the funnel and never allowed the water level to go below the mid section of the funnel. I then let it sit overnight, checked it in the morning & had to add about 4oz of water. I am 99% sure that the car had no air in it. After work I installed the plug and went for a drive. It started to act like it was going to operate at normal temperature (across from the 20MPH mark) and after about 12-15 miles it started heading towards the H. I got it back home and the fan was on and it was blowing water out of the overboard line. I am still leaning towards a bad (brand new) water pump. A couple of questions... Should I see coolant flowing through the hole in the crossover when the car is idling at temperature with the plug removed??? Because I'm not. Are there any differences in the water pump you buy from Ford or an aftermarket parts warehouse? (This pump came from Oriely's) I greatly appreciate all of the advice.
Any other ideas??

Thanks

[Mike M]

Thermostat in backwards?

[c_stauffer]

Nope! Im on the second new thermostat. It is installed with the hat facing down and the pellet facing up in the housing. the pellet is the first thing that the return flow from the crossover tube sees in the system.

[c_stauffer]

Just an update for those interested. I believe that all the air is out of the system. She isn't blowing any water anymore but still seems to run hot. I can get it up and down the street a few times maybe 6-10 miles and the fan will kick on. I have convinced myself that it is the combination of a stroker kit, bored +.020, a little higher compression, with the factory thermostat installed, and a light dusting of black paint on the radiator on a new engine that is causing it to run towards the hot side. My next plan is to install a new radiator with a 180 degree thermostat in hopes that that will get me down to the correct operating temp. Any thoughts or comments??
Another note. My car is lowered 1" in the front. It seemed like after my last burp (when I was convinced I had all the air out) I put the nose of the car back on the ground & I got more air out of the upper hose. It was like jacking the car left just a little air somewhere in the radiator???

[Blackened300a]

Just an update for those interested. I believe that all the air is out of the system. She isn't blowing any water anymore but still seems to run hot. I can get it up and down the street a few times maybe 6-10 miles and the fan will kick on. I have convinced myself that it is the combination of a stroker kit, bored +.020, a little higher compression, with the factory thermostat installed, and a light dusting of black paint on the radiator on a new engine that is causing it to run towards the hot side. My next plan is to install a new radiator with a 180 degree thermostat in hopes that that will get me down to the correct operating temp. Any thoughts or comments??
Another note. My car is lowered 1" in the front. It seemed like after my last burp (when I was convinced I had all the air out) I put the nose of the car back on the ground & I got more air out of the upper hose. It was like jacking the car left just a little air somewhere in the radiator???

I disagree. Too many people with bigger bores without issues. Heres my experience, fill the overflow tank with the engine cold, make sure its up to the full line. Then with the nose of the car slightly higher then the rear, fill the crossover tube. If the level in the overflow tank raises as you fill the crossover tube then the thermostat is in backwards. Once the crossover tube is completely full, run the engine to operating temp with the plug slightly loose. You should see bubbles then just coolant. When the bubbles stop close the plug and open it every 30 seconds or so until all you see is just coolant. When this is complete, let the engine completely cool off for at least 2 hours, then open the crossover tube, top off if necessary. That should eliminate all air and any issues you may have. If for some reason this don't solve your issues, then I would shine a flashlight through your radiator to make sure its not completely clogged or take a closer look at the waterpump.

[SC Cheesehead]

I disagree. Too many people with bigger bores without issues. Heres my experience, fill the overflow tank with the engine cold, make sure its up to the full line. Then with the nose of the car slightly higher then the rear, fill the crossover tube. If the level in the overflow tank raises as you fill the crossover tube then the thermostat is in backwards. Once the crossover tube is completely full, run the engine to operating temp with the plug slightly loose. You should see bubbles then just coolant. When the bubbles stop close the plug and open it every 30 seconds or so until all you see is just coolant. When this is complete, let the engine completely cool off for at least 2 hours, then open the crossover tube, top off if necessary. That should eliminate all air and any issues you may have. If for some reason this don't solve your issues, then I would shine a flashlight through your radiator to make sure its not completely clogged or take a closer look at the waterpump.


^^^^^ What he said.

Trapped air can be a stubborn critter; had a similar issue with my car after the Eaton swap, and using the procedure described above finally got the last bit of air out of the cooling system.

[Curless]

The only other thing I have for you is a bad coolant temp sensor. Check your engines actual temp with a laser temp gun. Make sure its really running hot. If you tighten a sensor too tight you can damage it. Knock sensors are way more prone to this, but ti does happen.

[RacerX]

I didn't see anywhere in this thread that you revved the engine while you had the funnel in the cot. You will think all the air is out and when you blip the throttle, you will see air come out of the cot/funnel. Do this until it stops.

[MMBLUE]

i didn't see anywhere in this thread that you revved the engine while you had the funnel in the cot. You will think all the air is out and when you blip the throttle, you will see air come out of the cot/funnel. Do this until it stops.

+1 ^^^^^^^^^

[c_stauffer]

OK,
She was still running hot so I decided to remove the thermostat and check them in hot water. I have 2ea new thermostats one was sold to me as a 180 and the other one was said to be a factory 195. both thermostats began to open at the same time. The water was boiling as well. Water boils at sea level at what ?? 212 degrees. so neither of thes things were opening and allowing flow through the radiator. I let the car warm up at idle and it came up to the 20MPH mark which is considered normal operating temp with no issues at all. I drove the car and the longer I drove it the cooler it got. So now I'm thinking 160 thermo. any thoughts??
after I tool the thermo out it practicall burped itself and I only had to do it once. Thanks for all the help I feel like I can see the light at the end of the tunnle and go drive this thing with confidence.

[SC Cheesehead]

OK,
She was still running hot so I decided to remove the thermostat and check them in hot water. I have 2ea new thermostats one was sold to me as a 180 and the other one was said to be a factory 195. both thermostats began to open at the same time. The water was boiling as well. Water boils at sea level at what ?? 212 degrees. so neither of thes things were opening and allowing flow through the radiator. I let the car warm up at idle and it came up to the 20MPH mark which is considered normal operating temp with no issues at all. I drove the car and the longer I drove it the cooler it got. So now I'm thinking 160 thermo. any thoughts??
after I tool the thermo out it practicall burped itself and I only had to do it once. Thanks for all the help I feel like I can see the light at the end of the tunnle and go drive this thing with confidence.

One-sixty's too cool. The engines run best around 190 - 200, slightly cooler if your running advanced timing.

Are you data logging the temps or ae you using the factory gauge?

[Pat]

The selection of a temp for a thermostat has more to do that just keeping the engine cool. The temp also promotes efficient combustion. I would stay in the 180 degree range. Too cool and the computer will think something is wrong and start manipulating the engine's operating parameters.

I assume you didn't install the cylinder head cooling mod. Maybe another time.

[c_stauffer]

I did install the cooling mod when I was building the engine back up.
Could it be possible that I got 2 new thermostats bad from stock?

[babbage]

Correct tstat for a 4v Engine needs to have thermal bypass.

e.g. looks like this:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q55/MarcInHawaii/Reische170DegreeThermostat.jpg

Does yours?

[sailsmen]

The factory guage does not move until 235-240*.

[LANDY]

Run a Reische 170* tstat. If burped it will barely get to 200*f.

[screamn]

Run a Reische 170* tstat. If burped it will barely get to 200*f.

Big +1 on this t stat!!!!!!

[Mike M]

Run a Reische 170* tstat. If burped it will barely get to 200*f.

Me likey!!!!

[screamn]

Me likey!!!!

Make the switch......purchase and never look back!!!

It cost me a little bit more dinero but was well worth it.

[babbage]

170 stat for MM here:
http://www.reischeperformance.com/

Better than factory waterpump:
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/emp-ste50046l

[sailsmen]

Assuming identical flow a different Thermostat Temp does no increase the cooling capacity of the system.

[c_stauffer]

Well I ordered the 63$ thermo and compared the pic to the one that Oriely's Auto parts sold me. It dosen't have the bypass like the one I just purchased. I never should have thrown the factory one away for the sake of preventative maintenace. So I will install & burp then update you all as soon as I get it. I guess the lesson learned is just because the parts guy says it "fits" in a MM don't take it to the bank that it will "work" in a MM. Thanks again for all of the help. I'll update soon

[babbage]

Well I ordered the 63$ thermo and compared the pic to the one that Oriely's Auto parts sold me. It dosen't have the bypass like the one I just purchased. I never should have thrown the factory one away for the sake of preventative maintenace. So I will install & burp then update you all as soon as I get it. I guess the lesson learned is just because the parts guy says it "fits" in a MM don't take it to the bank that it will "work" in a MM. Thanks again for all of the help. I'll update soon

Glad I could help, you could also get the correct one at the ford parts counter. I made this mistake also way back when...

[c_stauffer]

Reische 170* Did it!!! Burped on the first time and no issues. Thanks again everyone for the help. Now I have to get it tuned...

[Curless]

Well I ordered the 63$ thermo and compared the pic to the one that Oriely's Auto parts sold me. It dosen't have the bypass like the one I just purchased. I never should have thrown the factory one away for the sake of preventative maintenace. So I will install & burp then update you all as soon as I get it. I guess the lesson learned is just because the parts guy says it "fits" in a MM don't take it to the bank that it will "work" in a MM. Thanks again for all of the help. I'll update soon



Once again we learn, OEM or high quality performance aftermarket whenever you can. They are more expensive because they are worth it.