Disappointing track times at Edgewater....

[junehhan]

Hey guys, I went and visited Edgewater, the local dragstrip today, and was really depressed with what I ran in the 1/4 mile. I thought my car was faster than that, but I guess not. It was incredibly crowded, and I was only able to make a total of 3 runs since the entire park was like rushhour in the city. So many people showed up, that traffic backed up for 2 miles onto the street outside the strip which prompted a county Sherriff Deputy to have a talk with the track manager from what I understood. They also had a lot of trouble with the pit lane equipment, which caused them to shut it down for part of the day till they finally got a "union" electrician in as they called him. I ran on a full tank of gas, I weight 300lbs, and left my spare tire, jack, and other emergency roadside stuff I always keep as an emergency. Even though I arrived 30 minutes early, there was such a big crowd there that it still took me nearly 2 hours to get through the tech inspection.

I went up against 3 cars in the 3 runs I could get in, and went up against a automatic Taurus SHO, Honda Civic, and Mustang GT. What's embarrassing, is that I lost to all of them except for the SHO which I beat by only 5 thousandth of a second.

In my first run, I ran a 16.038 with a trap speed of 90.7mph, while the Civic Si next to me ran a 15.5@94mph

In my 2nd run, I ran a 15.45@92mph, while the SHO ran just a hair slower@89mph

In my last run, I only ran a 15.7@91.5mph while the Mustang GT ran a 15.008@94mph. The Mustang actually wasn't able to launch at all as he smoked his tires like crazy off the line.


I ran the 60ft in 2.2-2.4 seconds, and was able to launch just pefectly when I ran my fastest time of 15.45. I am a bit depressed as I thought I would have run much faster than this?

[junehhan]

I've got 5500 miles on my car now, so I guess it's also not like my engine hasn't broken in yet.........

[carfixer]

I ran mine in 55 degree weather, 1700 miles on the odometer, 1/2 tank of gas and I weight roughly 1/2 of you. My 60ft times are the same as yours. I ran a best of 14.9 at 95 MPH. My car was completly stock at the time. The weight difference is roughly 200 lbs all included. I wonder if that is the diff???

[junehhan]

I forgot to mention, I did see a Silver Marauder running down the strip, but it was crowded like a parking lot and I was unable to find the Marauder within the crowd of cars, even though I went looking for it after I finished my run. I missed it run since I was in a mad search for a restroom when it finally ran. What was neat, is that the CrownVic.net gang was there, including a very nice looking Stage 4 Kenny Brown Panther, although it was only able to run a 14.9 in the 1/4 mile on it's first run. On of their members came and gave me a CrownVic.net card and told me all about joining their online forum(which i'm already a member of), although I didn't tell him that since I was so depressed after my first run of 16.038.........

[junehhan]

Carfixer, it was 61 degree's today, and I always thought that 200lbs equaled roughly 2 tenth of a second in the 1/4 mile? Also, at 1700 miles, I imagine that your car probably still hadn't loosened up completely yet.

[TripleTransAm]

I've got 5500 miles on my car now, so I guess it's also not like my engine hasn't broken in yet.........


Don't know... if that was my car, I'd still be considering it unworthy of track time. I believe my MM had about 7000-8000 miles on it the first time I took it to the track, and it was not a busy day there at all. So I did not have the misfortune of having the car heat soak in the lanes while waiting for a run. My database says I was in the 15.1s and 15.2s most of the time, that summer day.

I say, wait for more mileage, a nice cool day, and not such a crowded day at the track. Also, pay attention to the gas you used, try other brands (and don't stick to the highest octane either... as long as it's above 91 octane, if you're stock consider trying it). Lastly, make sure you're not backing off too early on the run... happens often that some folks back off too quick not realizing they haven't crossed the finish line beam yet.

(and even when crossing the finish line, stay on it until you clear the last light beam... remember, you need 2 separate beams to be able to read speed, unless someone is pointing a radar at you! So tracks put a set of light beams before and after the actual finish line light beam... given that the track knows how far apart they placed the light beams, the distance between them divided by the time it took between each crossing gives the average speed through that distance, most likely the speed at the exact middle (ie. the finish line). Backing off prematurely results in too long a time between these beams, and you get an artificially low MPH).

[TripleTransAm]

Oh, one more thing... which I can't explain...

For some reason, my first runs of the spring on ANY car of mine are usually busts. Maybe it's the winter gas, maybe it's the fact my cars were stored all winter... dunno. I've pretty much given up running anytime before July. I remember one embarrassing spring session where my otherwise-13.4-capable WS6 couldn't get out of the 14s for all its worth. A few months later, all was back to normal... *shrug*

[Smokie]

junehhan, Your 60' times are right in line with mid to high 14 second runs, my best 60' is 2.249. I don't quite understand what happened after that. The very first time I ran it was 15.2 and it is not unusual for a new bonestock MM to run low 15's you have company there. You mentioned stuff in the trunk and full tank of gas....that did not help. You have 80 pounds on me but that should not account for a full second.

The long wait may have been a factor with engine and transmission temp. and maybe the weather was a factor. Try again with less junk in the trunk and less fuel. Your results will improve.:)

[BillyGman]

junhhan, I think you should go back to the track when you can(perferably soon before it gets warmer) and take some of that weight off your car. First, forget about running w/a full tank of gas. Plan on getting to the track w/less than 1/4 tank. That will reduce the overall weight about 80lbs right there. Also, take the spare and everything else out of your trunk. That might be another 100lbs.

That all adds up, and it WILL make a difference. You would be surprised. how much difference nobody can say for sure. But it WILL make a difference. You should also bring a tire pressure gauge w/youto the track, and inflate your front tires to 40psi when you get there(that will cause less tire drag) and deflate the backs to 23psi for better traction coming off the line(that's what I do). You might see a reduction in your 60' times that way. Also try turning off your O/D button. that reduced my ET's.

[TAF]

I went up against 3 cars in the 3 runs I could get in, and went up against a automatic Taurus SHO, Honda Civic, and Mustang GT. What's embarrassing, is that I lost to all of them except for the SHO which I beat by only 5 thousandth of a second.

In my 2nd run, I ran a 15.45@92mph, while the SHO ran just a hair slower @ 89mph (slower@89mph)
Well...I guess that answers the questions/challenges of a couple days ago...even on its WORST day...a Marauder can still handle the mighty SHO...:lol::lol:

You out there blue? ;)

[TripleTransAm]

Also try turning off your O/D button. that reduced my ET's.

You've got my attention...

Did you try back-to-back runs? I'm DYING to get cold hard proof that OD-on/OD-off does make a difference in performance, whether it be through improved shifting or perhaps some other obscure PCM-stimulus. Unless it's just something as silly as your car going into 4th before the end of the run, with OD on...

[BillyGman]

Yes....you guessed it. I just threw that in there for him to try while he was at the track. W/my car, because I have the 4.56 gears, I have a trap speed of 101MPH. That was my best trap speed, and all my other runs w/the O/D off was 100MPH. However, w/the O/D left on(on the same day) my trap speeds were 97MPH and 98MPH, and my ET's were 13.6 sec as opposed to consistent 13.5 ET's on that same day w/the O/D turned off.

I believe the real story in my case is that because of the 4.56's my car shifts into O/D at around 100MPH always as long as I have the accelerator pedal on the floor. And at the track that for me is exactly as I'm passing over the finish line. So leaving the O/D off for me helps avoid that lag that you get when the car shifts into O/D.

And that in itself might be the only reason for the better ET w/MY car.

[Silver_04]

I forgot to mention, I did see a Silver Marauder running down the strip, but it was crowded like a parking lot and I was unable to find the Marauder within the crowd of cars, even though I went looking for it after I finished my run. I missed it run since I was in a mad search for a restroom when it finally ran. What was neat, is that the CrownVic.net gang was there, including a very nice looking Stage 4 Kenny Brown Panther, although it was only able to run a 14.9 in the 1/4 mile on it's first run. On of their members came and gave me a CrownVic.net card and told me all about joining their online forum(which i'm already a member of), although I didn't tell him that since I was so depressed after my first run of 16.038.........

Junehhan-that was me running the other silver Marauder. I was there with the Crown Vic guys. My best today was 15.120.

Here are all of my specifics
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8357

I guess my weather info is a bit off...

[junehhan]

What I don't understand, is why I ran so much slower than you did, especially when my engine should be much looser since i've got a bit more miles. I even changed the oil yesterday and put in synthetic Amsoil 0w30. Steve, i'm pretty positive that I didn't let off the gas prematurely, because I made sure I was way past the 2nd line before getting off the gas each time. In fact, i'm shocked that I even had a 16 second run in there, as that's just slow. I had my front tire pressures at 37psi, and kept the rear at 35 since traction wasn't a problem for me. Out of curiosity, how many rpms were you using to brake torque off the line? On the 16 second run, I just mashed the gas pedal off the line and it just bogged and took forever to accelerate initially.

[Silver_04]

Each time I just sat there at idle until the third yellow-and then I mashed it. My ride never bogged and actually I got quite a bit of wheel spin which kinda shocked me.

[junehhan]

My fastest run, which was 15.4, was accomplished after a 1.25 hour cooldown, followed by leaving it off while in the staging lanes and just pushing myself down and turning the engine on only before it was my turn to turn into the racing lanes. In fact, when I floored the gas, the temperature guage still hadn't warmed up fully yet. Out of curiosity, how many rpms does everyone here hold at when brake torqueing before the tree turns green?

[Silver_04]

Wow, my fastest run was done in an opposite manner from yours. The car was driven for about 3 hours before the race and the MM idled almost the whole time before my first run because the traffic kept moving just enough to make me not want to turn it off and push. I did have the hood popped - not open though - just until I had to run. My temp gauge was pointed at approximately 19mph on the speedo. The traction control was off for the first run but I can't remember if I turned O/D off. I know O/D was off on the second run.

The car sat for a long time before the second run, but my temp gauge was pointed at approximately 19mph again by time I ran.

[greyghost]

The 4.6 motors love heat. When I had the Greyghost dynoed there was a 10 hp difference between the 1st run and the 6th run. The Ford tech said that these motors love heat, there not like the old 5.0s that you literally had to ice down the intake between rounds if you wanted your car to run to its potential. I am also looking at modifying the emmisions to reduce the amount of heat to the intake and see if that has an affect.

[BillyGman]

my Marauder runs 3 tenths of a second faster in the cold weather. So I don't agree that the 4.6L "loves heat".......

[martyo]

The 4.6 motors love heat.
Barry: Not sure I can agree with you on this one.

When I ran my car at MMville I in September I consistenly ran 14.2's.

When I ran my car in Atco, NJ in December I was down in the 13.5's.

In between I was running on some cool fall nights at Englishtown, NJ and was running 13.7's and 13.8's. In fact on one night I dialed in and 13.80 and the car cooled some much between passes that I break out with a 13.7 (not ot fear though, I left with a big ol' **** eating grin just from that pass).

The consensus on this site has always been that these cars love the cold (but hate the snow).

[Smokie]

I just mashed the gas pedal off the line and it just bogged and took forever to accelerate initially.
What you described sounds exactly like the transmission issue I had from a dead start....a nasty pause before car took off. Cure: reflash or chip.

One other possibility, do you baby your car a lot ? Do you have many WOT romps ? The PCM responds to and learns your driving habits, if you never drive it hard; then it responds softly...this may sound crazy but I believe it to be true.:)

[Silver_04]

Ah yes-a photo from Edgewater.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ctt9/images/GroupShotLeft.jpg

[TripleTransAm]

On the 16 second run, I just mashed the gas pedal off the line and it just bogged and took forever to accelerate initially.


Sounds exactly like what I was feeling on my summer runs, which pretty much alleviated itself during my cooler fall runs. Because of this difference, I thought it was due to timing, since I am still chipless so no change in timing routines. The cooler air must have made it harder to ping, hence no pulling of timing at the low end. The fact that you pulled a good run after a cooldown shows there is a temperature relationship here.

As I mentioned before, you should maybe consider trying again in the middle of summer, as a matter of practicing. You will get more realistic times then, and benefit from further break-in. In the meantime, it will also give you a chance to scope out a better fuel option... perhaps exchange notes with Silver_04 as to choice of fuel. Perhaps even fuel station as well! (yes, I have my set of 'favorite' pumps - all my best runs came from that station).

Then, come Fall, you'll have a true representation of what your car can do. (don't forget to address any valvetrain noise should you have any...)

[TripleTransAm]

I also don't agree about the 4.6 loving heat. Rather, the 4.6 doesn't "mind" the heat as much as previous engines.

With modern engines' use of composites, plastics and aluminum, heat 'soak' isn't as much of a problem. With older components, they would actually retain heat and transfer this to the intake charge. The result was a mixture that was less dense and hence lacking in power potential. The newer components don't soak up this heat from inside the engine bay, and the intake charge remains cooler and denser, with both greater power potential AND less chance of it pre-igniting (pinging) in the chamber (so you benefit from closer-to-optimum timing).

The effect is VERY noticeable. On summer track sessions, you'll see my LT1-equipped F-body brethren running a couple of lucky 13.9s after a long cooldown, then 14.0, then 14.2s then 14.4s and eventually giving up for another cooling session once they can't get out of the 14.6s. In the meantime, I've come off the highway with my composite-intake LS1 straight into the staging lanes and will run stuff like 13.6, 13.4, 13.5, 13.5, 13.4, 13.5, 13.5, 13.6, 13.6, 13.6, 13.5 etc. before going for a hot dog and Coke, then coming back for more 13.4s and 13.5s.

Heat is actually a necessity for a good combustion event. Too cool an engine and the combustion won't work right... so I guess the best way to say it is that the 4.6 is able to use heat to its best advantage, rather than succumbing to it as badly. But heat soak does eventually happen on the 4.6, as during my fall runs I shut things down on my MM once I began to see more 14.7s and 14.8s instead of the 14.6s.

[tetsu]

Here's another trick for your Marauder to eek out an extra tenth or so....

Do not idle while creeping up in the staging lane. Push it. Between runs, ice your intake to get the heat soak out of it then push it up the line.

On my car it seems to be worth a little more than a tenth.

With stock tuning, mine doesnt like heat.

[greyghost]

my Marauder runs 3 tenths of a second faster in the cold weather. So I don't agree that the 4.6L "loves heat".......
The motor runs better hot. That doen't mean that your going to have better times because the track is hot. I understand what you are sayiong and I agree with you. Cooler weather quicker times, hot or cold = slower times because the rubber can't hook up.

[junehhan]

Thanks guys for the suggestions and advice. I guess what i'll do, is go again, except during the summer this time and this time, i'll leave the spare tire and jack at home, as well as my toolbox, emergency roadside kit, backpack, coat, jacket, spare fluids, and whatever else that was in the trunk. I'll also go with between 1/4 to 1/2 a tank of gas this time. I'll probably take a cooler full of ice with me too, so I can ice down the intake and see if that helps. While I do go WOT once a day, i'm going to go WOT a lot more often to see if it will further loosen up the engine. When i'm not going WOT, yes I do baby it and drive like it's my baby. For my fastest run of 15.4, I did leave the hood up while in the staging lanes, and did push my car till it was my turn to run down the strip. In fact, the engine was still not running at normal operating temperature when I made that run, which is why i'm so disappointed that it turned only a 15.4 with a perfect launch. As far as gas goes, I generally have used Marathon, but i'm going to run on Shell V-Power(their premium grade) consistently to see if that makes a difference.

[TripleTransAm]

Why rush the break-in? Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I'd feel better about my break-in schedule just by driving it normally. If that includes a little WOT now and again, no biggie. But I just have a gut feeling that increasing the amount of abuse on a engine just to *loosen it up* will eventually come back to haunt you.

Just for kicks, I ran your best 1/4 mile trap speed through a little formula I keep in my back pocket (it's on a rather flat piece of paper so I hardly even notice it when I'm sitting). Comparing your engine's theoretical output with mine and assuming they were equal, it almost seems to indicate you had a difference of about 500 lbs over my car's race weight. Does this sound right?

I still think good gas, a vehicular diet and a little engine maturity will have you Marauding at the high 14s if not better, next time you're at a track on a cool day.

[TripleTransAm]

By the way, I have to add that on the whole, I can safely claim I baby my car 99% of the time. Of course, that 1% of the time I sometimes go psycho... but overall the car hardly sees the sweet side of 2000 RPM... unless it's on the highway in 4th!!!!

[junehhan]

I don't intend on abusing my car at all, but I will go WOT with caution a bit more often. I will use Shell V-Power for a while now, especially since this is a very high volume Shell where I constantly see exotics and very high priced vehicles constantly pulling in and out of. As far as the weight difference is, I don't see how it could add up anywhere near 500lbs though. I weigh 300lbs, so you can add that one up, my emergency roadside kit including all of my spare fluids should have been no more than 20-25lbs at most, and the spare and jack should be no more than 30-35lbs, right? My bookbag is about 20lbs, and I may have had an extra 40-50lbs of fuel than you. The weight of the coat and my Marauder jacket that finally came is probably not enough to count, although it's getting warm enough that I don't need either of those anymore. Providing that I weigh 100lbs more than you, that would mean I was carrying about 180-210 more lbs than you were, which probably made no more than 2 tenths of a second difference. With it being between 55-61 degree's at the dragstrip during the run, that's why i'm so bummed since i've got more miles than some of the fastest stock Marauders out there. Heck, i'm so bummed I just started listening to a Celine Dion CD that I pulled out of my storage room where I store junk that I don't use anymore.......... :)

[TripleTransAm]

Heck, i'm so bummed I just started listening to a Celine Dion CD that I pulled out of my storage room where I store junk that I don't use anymore.......... :)


DON'T DO IT! It's not worth it! ;)

Okay, so consider the added 200 lbs... possibly some dodgy fuel (likely, due to the softness of your launch)... and then subtract some newbie mileage -> I think you're in good shape for improved 1/4 times soon enough.

Again, referring to my little formula, engine output remaining the same (ie. using your same fuel) if you had removed those extra 200 lbs, you should have been looking at 93-94 mph trap speeds... possibly a 15.2 or better. With a meatier launch (ie. a little more aggressive timing), you'd be in the low low 15s or high 14s. With more break in mileage... well, time will tell.

Just enjoy the car... it will just keep getting better with age.

[woaface]

I just mashed the gas pedal off the line and it just bogged and took forever to accelerate initially.
The word "mashed" is such a slow word...like, potatoes or of the like. Try stab or something...the right mindset and some imaginary tunnel-vision might help:up:

I'm hoping to run less than 16.5 on mine. (Ooo baby!)

[junehhan]

Well, it's too late now, but it's amazing how among the female singers, her singing voice stands out. The tone quality, and vibrance is actually amazing. It's a shame that she started doing car commercials, out of anything, and especially for a company like Chrysler.

Thanks for the advice, and i'm just going to let it mature more and more. I may make another trip out to the track fairly soon on a less crowded day since there were so many people, that I couldn't experiment with various launch techniques. BTW, has anyone noticed that these BFG's are getting stickier and getting more grip as you put the miles on? I've noticed from just driving around on the streets, that they seem to be getting harder and harder to break loose from a stop light. I remember when I first got my car, that my tires could break loose almost all the time when I hit the gas pedal from a stop. Burnouts are also not as easy to do as they were when I first got the car.

[THE_INTERCEPTOR]

You've got my attention...

Did you try back-to-back runs? I'm DYING to get cold hard proof that OD-on/OD-off does make a difference in performance, whether it be through improved shifting or perhaps some other obscure PCM-stimulus. Unless it's just something as silly as your car going into 4th before the end of the run, with OD on...

When I turned O/D off, I picked up .2 in my 1/4 mile time. :up: