Firestone Firehawk Wide Oval AS

[Bob Emess]

I'm looking for info on the rear wear pattern of these 245/55R18 103W Firestones. In my case, the BFG's have a significant center wear situation, leading to shortened tire life. By bumping the pressure up to 44-45 psi tire life has been improved. Now, I have a question for those running the new Firestones and who had a center wear situation with BFG's - have you found the Firehawks to be subject to this center wear?

Bob Emess

[8UWITH6]

44psi is too much pressure for your tires/car. The reason why you are getting center tread wear is because of the over-inflation. Put them back down in the 30's where they belong and it will reduce that type of tire wear. Brand of tire is irrelevant. HTH

[Mr. Man]

44psi is too much pressure for your tires/car. The reason why you are getting center tread wear is because of the over-inflation. Put them back down in the 30's where they belong and it will reduce that type of tire wear. Brand of tire is irrelevant. HTH
Actually some have found slightly higher pressure in the BFG's helps. Basically the center strip in the BFG's is way to soft and wears much faster than the rest of the tire no matter what you try.

The Firestone's are fairly new to the scene and I'm not aware of anyone who's tried them yet.

[8UWITH6]

Well then, when the BFG's that are on my car do that, I will let you know how the Firestone's do :)

[rkk]

Bob,

while I don't have info on that Firestone tire, I can attest that my last 2 sets of BFG's suffered from the dreaded center wear you are describing.

Fortunately, as other members have pointed out, they steered me in the direction of putting on Nitto 420S tires (in the Rear only of course) that are just slightly wider, i.e. 255/55/R18 and although I have only put 11K on them, seem to address the issue.

- Rob

P.S. - With only 10mm wider, they mount perfectly on stock rims.

[eric jones]

I just put on a full set of the Firestone Wide Oval's. Total price was about $760.00, only had them about a month and the first thing I noticed was that they are a little noisy. No big deal (I just turn up the music) but other than that I'm happy. They have a nice tread pattern and have done well in the rain but we will see how they wear compared to the BFG's.

[Mr. Man]

I just put on a full set of the Firestone Wide Oval's. Total price was about $760.00, only had them about a month and the first thing I noticed was that they are a little noisy. No big deal (I just turn up the music) but other than that I'm happy. They have a nice tread pattern and have done well in the rain but we will see how they wear compared to the BFG's.
Are they the new all-season tires or the original Wide Ovals?

[eric jones]

Are they the new all-season tires or the original Wide Ovals?
They are the new all season wide oval's

[Bluerauder]

44psi is too much pressure for your tires/car.

Agreed +1 ^^^^. Max tire pressure on the sidewall is listed as 45 psi. Tire experts recommend never to exceed 90% of the Max. That means that 40-41 psi should be the limit on the OEM BFGs. I run 38 in the rears and 35 up front. Seems to work for me. 21K is about the average for my rear tires; but I swap 'em out at about 4 mm when they start to enter the RED zone. 36K on the fronts without ever a sign of edge wear.


Basically the center strip in the BFG's is way to soft and wears much faster than the rest of the tire no matter what you try.

The BFG tire compound is the same across the entire tread. Not sure where you dig up this ^^^^^ bad information.

Center wear on the rear BFGs has been an issue since day one. Original tires pressures shown on the door sticker and gas flap for the '03 MM was 32 psi all around. In '04 this was changed to 35 psi all around for improved wear. 35 seems to be OK on the fronts. I have pushed my rears to 38. Some on here run as high as 40. Don't know of many who exceed 40.

[Ozark Marauder]

I just put on a full set of the Firestone Wide Oval's. Total price was about $760.00, only had them about a month and the first thing I noticed was that they are a little noisy. No big deal (I just turn up the music) but other than that I'm happy. They have a nice tread pattern and have done well in the rain but we will see how they wear compared to the BFG's.

Wow, I had the exact opposite impression, they were a lot quieter than the BFG's.

OZ

[bhenderson]

I have Cooper ZEON RS3-A on the back of my Marauder right now. Had them for about a year and they seem to be wearing ok. The only reason I bought them was the local tire dealer I normally go to could not get the GForce in 245/55ZR18. In fact they told me Goodrich was going to stop making GForce in that size. I don't know if that is true or not. Someone here may have better information.

Anyway, the Coopers seem to be working fine. The car rides the same and no noises. It will be interesting to see if they wear the same as the GForce. I still have GForce on the front, but will need to replace soon. I will probably install Coopers there as well.

[Mr. Man]

Agreed +1 ^^^^. Max tire pressure on the sidewall is listed as 45 psi. Tire experts recommend never to exceed 90% of the Max. That means that 40-41 psi should be the limit on the OEM BFGs. I run 38 in the rears and 35 up front. Seems to work for me. 21K is about the average for my rear tires; but I swap 'em out at about 4 mm when they start to enter the RED zone. 36K on the fronts without ever a sign of edge wear.



The BFG tire compound is the same across the entire tread. Not sure where you dig up this ^^^^^ bad information.

Center wear on the rear BFGs has been an issue since day one. Original tires pressures shown on the door sticker and gas flap for the '03 MM was 32 psi all around. In '04 this was changed to 35 psi all around for improved wear. 35 seems to be OK on the fronts. I have pushed my rears to 38. Some on here run as high as 40. Don't know of many who exceed 40.
First on a positive note BF Goodrich says this tire has a 6yr warranty.

I didn't say it was a different compound, I said the center section wears faster than the rest of the tire. That leads me to believe it might be softer. What else could it be? Ms.D's tires have a good 10K left on them but the center section is down to the bottom of the adjoining grooves. I keep them at 35-6lbs. I think any reasonable person could conclude based on all the negative feedback the KDWS gets on the Marauder the center section might be different than the rest of the tire.

[Bluerauder]

First on a positive note BF Goodrich says this tire has a 6yr warranty.

I didn't say it was a different compound, I said the center section wears faster than the rest of the tire. That leads me to believe it might be softer. What else could it be? Ms.D's tires have a good 10K left on them but the center section is down to the bottom of the adjoining grooves. I keep them at 35-6lbs. I think any reasonable person could conclude based on all the negative feedback the KDWS gets on the Marauder the center section might be different than the rest of the tire.

Actually, you did say it was softer in the center strip. Here is some historical info from 2005 and 2007 below. 35-36 psi in the rears for the OEM BFGs will not fix the center wear. That is why I bumped mine to 38 psi. Others have gone higher to 40 psi. This has been widely accepted here since 2005.

Posted in a thread from April 2007 >>>> http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35011&highlight=tire+expert



*RE: RE: ???Center wear on rear KDWS's
by TireNerd2
February 23, 2005 8:28PM


Nope. The KDWS does not have a softer compound in the middle of the tread. The KDWS uses a single tread compound across the entire face of the tread. Center rib tread wear can be caused by many things. However, take it from me as a Tire Designer (6 years) and Ex-Test Driver for BFG (6 years), rear wheel drive, high horsepower, and high torque applications that exhibit accelerated center rib wear usually benefit from INCREASING cold inflation pressures. Now I know absolutely everyone in the public domain will tell you accelerated center rib wear is caused by over inflation, but believe me it's also caused by under inflation on the 'driven axle'. So in a sense both situations lead to center rib wear depending on whether the axle is being driven or not i.e. whether the tire experiences an engine driving torque or not. Adding some air to the rear axle of the Marauder in this example will stabilize the contact patch and help it maintain its shape better by keeping more rubber on the road under a driving torque. Essentially, if a driven axle tire is under inflated when it experiences a high driving torque, the leading edge of the contact patch is forced into the road and the trailing edge of the contact patch is 'pealed' up (you can watch dragster tires do this when they stage at the line). When this happens the unit contact pressures increase at the leading edge of the contact patch, which increases contact stresses and accelerates wear. The centerline of the contact patch just happens to be the location of highest contact pressures and so exhibits the highest wear rate. I know this may sound odd - and I know maybe counter to what you've heard BUT adding air reduces center rib wear in higher horsepower applications by stabilizing the contact patch shape. Keep in mind O.E. inflation pressures are a comprise by the manufacturer for ride and handling and not optimized for tire wear life. So add at least 5 to 7 psi cold to the rear axle tires and the KDWS wear life should increase.

[Mr. Man]

Well if what that guy says is true it hasn't significantly reduced tire wear on a Marauder as the flight of our owners to other tire manufacturers will a test.

I checked out BFG's site on the KDWS and looked at their review page. Aside from a few disappointed folks most people in the first 50 or so gave the KDWS a very good or excellent wear rating. Many of those folks drive Mustangs and the KDWS was OE on some of them. The Mustang is as you know is a solid axle rear wheel drive sort of porker weighted car that should exhibit similar tire wear characteristics as the RWD solid axle though it be heavier MM. So why are people in other cars getting much better wear performance than us? Air pressure seems unlikely. Perhaps the tire just isn't designed for such a heavy car.

[8UWITH6]

Lots of good info here. But center tire wear is almost always pressure related. I was a little taken back by the loud comment on the Firestones as they are a really great tire for the price. I have mine sitting upstairs at work for when the BFG's wear out on my DBP as I work for Bridgestone Retail Operations. Unfortunately the BFG's are still at 9/32nds so unless I start doing some burnouts I have at least 10 or 20K miles to go. After reading this thread I will pay attention to my tire wear on my car (just had it aligned) and for reference I run my pressures at 30-32psi.

[CBT]

I'm looking for info on the rear wear pattern of these 245/55R18 103W Firestones. In my case, the BFG's have a significant center wear situation, leading to shortened tire life. By bumping the pressure up to 44-45 psi tire life has been improved. Now, I have a question for those running the new Firestones and who had a center wear situation with BFG's - have you found the Firehawks to be subject to this center wear?

Bob Emess

I would put wooden wagon wheels on my Marauder before I would go back to BFG's. Wooden wheels would probably last longer and get better traction in the rain.

[Gryphonzus]

I have been running 40 PSI on my rear tires for years now. The center wear was reduced quite a bit since I have been doing this. I got this information from a post on this site years ago. Someone spoke to a reresentative from BFG and they said to run that pressure in the tires.

[eric jones]

Lots of good info here. But center tire wear is almost always pressure related. I was a little taken back by the loud comment on the Firestones as they are a really great tire for the price. I have mine sitting upstairs at work for when the BFG's wear out on my DBP as I work for Bridgestone Retail Operations. Unfortunately the BFG's are still at 9/32nds so unless I start doing some burnouts I have at least 10 or 20K miles to go. After reading this thread I will pay attention to my tire wear on my car (just had it aligned) and for reference I run my pressures at 30-32psi.
I'm no tire expert but I think they are a little louder, unless its my rearend (the car's):) making noise.

[8UWITH6]

I'm no tire expert but I think they are a little louder, unless its my rearend (the car's):) making noise.

LOL. Hopefully not.

[bhenderson]

Since the front an rear are not the same size, not being able to rotate the tires will increase the wear.

[Bluerauder]

Well if what that guy says is true it hasn't significantly reduced tire wear on a Marauder as the flight of our owners to other tire manufacturers will attest.

Much of the so-called "flight" to other tire brands was initially caused by the frequent non-availability of the BFG 255/50/18 KDWS size. I guess it depends on what you consider "significant" as far as reduction in tire wear. Tire pressure change will not get you from 20K miles to 25K miles (a 25% increase). It may buy you about 10% or about 2,000 to 2,500 miles more. The best I have done on OEM rears was 21K. That beats the 15K that I got out of the GoodYear Eagle F1s. Yes, some/many folks were not happy with 15, 20, 25K miles and went with other brands for a variety of reasons..... but availability even within the first couple years was a big issue. Seems we were burning up the rears at twice the rate of BFG estimates/production. Go figure. :burnout:



I would put wooden wagon wheels on my Marauder before I would go back to BFG's. Wooden wheels would probably last longer and get better traction in the rain.

I completely understand that some people just do not like the OEM BFGs. Personally, I have never had a problem with them (wet or dry traction) and I lay on them pretty hard. In fact, I think I got better wet traction from the BFG KDWS than the GoodYear Eagle F1s despite the ratings. And I certainly got better wear out of them (21K vs 15K). Replacing my rears at 21K average has never been an issue for me. Not so for many. In fact, I am on the 5th set of rears now; but only the 3rd set of fronts.

When I can't find the BFG rears, I'll probably switch over to Nittos. Until then, I like how my car handles with the BFGs KDWS. This position probably puts me in the minority. :flamer:

[stevengerard]

I have been using the Firestones for 6 months now - WAY, WAY, quieter than the BFGs! So far wear is way better, wet traction is way better and snow traction is unbelievable compared to the cruddy BFGs - just my impression.

[Mr. Man]

Much of the so-called "flight" to other tire brands was initially caused by the frequent non-availability of the BFG 255/50/18 KDWS size. I guess it depends on what you consider "significant" as far as reduction in tire wear. Tire pressure change will not get you from 20K miles to 25K miles (a 25% increase). It may buy you about 10% or about 2,000 to 2,500 miles more. The best I have done on OEM rears was 21K. That beats the 15K that I got out of the GoodYear Eagle F1s. Yes, some/many folks were not happy with 15, 20, 25K miles and went with other brands for a variety of reasons..... but availability even within the first couple years was a big issue. Seems we were burning up the rears at twice the rate of BFG estimates/production. Go figure. :burnout:




I completely understand that some people just do not like the OEM BFGs. Personally, I have never had a problem with them (wet or dry traction) and I lay on them pretty hard. In fact, I think I got better wet traction from the BFG KDWS than the GoodYear Eagle F1s despite the ratings. And I certainly got better wear out of them (21K vs 15K). Replacing my rears at 21K average has never been an issue for me. Not so for many. In fact, I am on the 5th set of rears now; but only the 3rd set of fronts.

When I can't find the BFG rears, I'll probably switch over to Nittos. Until then, I like how my car handles with the BFGs KDWS. This position probably puts me in the minority. :flamer:
I would bet many here didn't have an issue with the handling capability of the BFG and I would be one of them. For an A/S tire I thought they were a pretty good tire but the wear issue is what has me looking elsewhere for the next set. The Mustang guys are getting 30K+ out of theirs and 16K out of a properly cared for set of rears on Paula's Car is just not acceptable. So I will try something else. Paula has picked the Nitto Motivo as her next try as it resembles the BFG. Hope they are good as they have the stock sizes.:)

[stevengerard]

By the way, I also beat the Firehawks (and the car) at Gingerman and they handled the course better than the BFGs ever did

[Bluerauder]

.... and 16K out of a properly cared for set of rears on Paula's Car is just not acceptable. So I will try something else.

Bump up the pressures on the rears to 38-40 psi range and she may be able to get up to 20K from the BFGs. Like I said, I get 21K consistently with 38 psi. If you are looking for a 30-35K replacement cycle, I suspect that you are looking at a different brand and possible one that is NOT a performance tire. You'll sacrifice something to get the mileage increase. JMHO.

[Agent M79]

Sorry, but how does and oval tire, wide or otherwise, even fit on a round rim?

.

.

.

.

Derp!

[Mr. Man]

Bump up the pressures on the rears to 38-40 psi range and she may be able to get up to 20K from the BFGs. Like I said, I get 21K consistently with 38 psi. If you are looking for a 30-35K replacement cycle, I suspect that you are looking at a different brand and possible one that is NOT a performance tire. You'll sacrifice something to get the mileage increase. JMHO.
Going to try Nitto's A/S Motivo. 40K warranty on the size that fits the MM. I believe they are Z rated. W-rated has a 45K warranty but doesn't come in the 245.

[lifespeed]

Much of the so-called "flight" to other tire brands was initially caused by the frequent non-availability of the BFG 255/50/18 KDWS size. I guess it depends on what you consider "significant" as far as reduction in tire wear. Tire pressure change will not get you from 20K miles to 25K miles (a 25% increase). It may buy you about 10% or about 2,000 to 2,500 miles more. The best I have done on OEM rears was 21K. That beats the 15K that I got out of the GoodYear Eagle F1s. Yes, some/many folks were not happy with 15, 20, 25K miles and went with other brands for a variety of reasons..... but availability even within the first couple years was a big issue. Seems we were burning up the rears at twice the rate of BFG estimates/production. Go figure. :burnout:




I completely understand that some people just do not like the OEM BFGs. Personally, I have never had a problem with them (wet or dry traction) and I lay on them pretty hard. In fact, I think I got better wet traction from the BFG KDWS than the GoodYear Eagle F1s despite the ratings. And I certainly got better wear out of them (21K vs 15K). Replacing my rears at 21K average has never been an issue for me. Not so for many. In fact, I am on the 5th set of rears now; but only the 3rd set of fronts.

When I can't find the BFG rears, I'll probably switch over to Nittos. Until then, I like how my car handles with the BFGs KDWS. This position probably puts me in the minority. :flamer:
I agree with you! I ran Firestone Wide Oval AS last time as the BFG KDWS were unavailable. I'm going to buy another set of BFG today. I was briefly contemplating the Nitto Motivo third option, but read a comment on here that described them as "more floppy than the BFG". I hate floppy in a tire more than anything. :mad2:

[Zack]

Firestone Wide Ovals are the best tire I've ever installed, on anything Ive ever driven.

And 70 bucks cheaper a piece.

[Baconbit]

I have the Firestone Firehawk Wide Oval AS on my car as well since Zack recommended them and I love them. The handling is great and the tire wear is awesome.

[Ozark Marauder]

same here, Firestone Firehawk Wide Oval AS, No defects noted..............

OZ

[slickster]

love the way bfgs felt very solid. went nitto 255 55 felt sloppy

[lifespeed]

The new BFGs are on and road force balanced. They are the firmest most precise sidewall of our limited choices, an excellent drivers tire!

My Firestones were not shot by any means, especially in the front. The Firestones provide decent handling, and the tread wear is a little better. But ultimate feel and handling it is BFG hands down. :D

[8UWITH6]

Update on Wide Oval AS on the DBP. 15k miles and treads are still 8 and 9/32nds no edge wear no center wear.

[lji372]

Update on Wide Oval AS on the DBP. 15k miles and treads are still 8 and 9/32nds no edge wear no center wear.

Your driving that car too much IMHO

[8UWITH6]

Better than letting it sit and waste. As Zack would say its just a car ;) :beer: