'04 Marauder Performance Chip and Trilogy Blower...

[Lidio]

Well I’m happy to announce that the ’04 Marauder chip for us so far is working out. Our local customer “MikesMerc” Was gracious enough to bring his car by for testing and it all looks good so far.

We tried a simple base program that firmed up shifts, disabled torque converter lock-up until it was in 4th gear at 63mph (this is one of our most noted and key features in our custom chips), raised the idle and that was all we had time for today. On Monday we’re going to see if we can find some power with the stock engine on the chassis dyno. And then let him go with the test chip for a few days and then it looks like he will be having us do a Trilogy blower on the car before the end of March. This will be the first ’04 we or any one has installed a Trilogy on.

At this time I see no other problem with the Trilogy on a ’04 other then the computer chip thing which it looks like we’re past now. The only physical thing I think we will deal with on ‘04s vs ‘03s is the ‘04s have dual knock sensors… We will simply relocate both of them and not just one as we do on the ‘03s.

In a nut shell by the end of March we should be able mail order or install Trilogy’s on ’04 MMs and we will be shipping our performance chip for the ’04 MM’s that are all stock or set up for 4.10’s in the rear axle.

More here on our Marauder chips (http://www.alternativeauto.com/misc/marauder_chip.html)


Thanks

[Zack]

Where do you move the knock sensors?

[Lidio]

On the '03 MM's we relocate it behind the passenger side cylinder head.

I know where this is headed ( I think ) so I’ll address it now for any one who will question this…

Just like on the ’03 Supercharged Cobra which by the way do not have knock sensors. We tune conservatively and safely with the Trilogy blower.

There is no room for the knock sensors under the intake when using the ’03 Cobra lower manifold on the Trilogy set up. So we relocate the sensors to the back of the cylinder heads. This does make them less sensitive to knocking… we know.

Just like the ’03 Cobra we recommend premium fuel and have not put the tune in the chip that comes with the Trilogy package on the very edge at WOT. As I’ve stated before in this forum and in a disclaimer that comes with the Trilogy kit. In almost these words; “The tune in the Trilogy supplied chip is conservative to accommodate various parts of the country and regional fuel differences”. As a result some will find that they can add a degree or two or more to their tune. We can’t be every where so we did the best we could using 92 octanes and so far all the mail order kits and self installs that have used the Trilogy supplied chip seem to be doing fine and not spark knocking. Even the California MM me and Jerry from Trilogy personally flew out to and tuned on 91 octane. That car ended up with virtually the same total spark as the rest of the blown MM we do.

A couple of my local install we’ve no doubt leaned on them a little because their simply a hands on type tune that I can push a little harder and see for my self what’s going on, and back off if needed. We don’t risk this edgyness with mail orders or do our best to avoid it.


Thanks

[Effster]

(qoute)There is no room for the knock sensors under the intake when using the ’03 Cobra lower manifold on the Trilogy set up. So we relocate the sensors to the back of the cylinder heads. This does make them less sensitive to knocking… we know.

hrm........myself and maurderer(bob) both drilled and tapped inside the valley to a new location.putting the knock sensor on the back of the head is useless because it will just pick up valve train noise.you might as well just shut em off.

[MikesMerc]

I went by Lidio's this morning so we could experiment with my 04 MM and some chip tuning. This was done mostly as a precursor to having the Trilogy kit installed.

As Lidio said, we were indeed short on time (spousal constraints...you know what I mean), so we were ony able to try the things Lidio noted above. After a few minutes to tweak the settings and flash the chip we were on our way for a little test spin.

All I have to say is Holy Cow! Just those few trans tweaks gave the car a much better feel. Gone is that irratating "early lock up" and that old "bog or downshift" on a heavy toe-in on the throttle. Anywhere from a dig to low highway speeds the responsiveness of the car is greatly improved. In addition, the slightly firmer shifts lend to a more positive seat of the pants feel when you get on it. It's a firm but not overly aggressive punch from the lumbar at the shift.

If this is any idication of where my MM performance road will lead, I'm in for a treat. I really wanted to stay away from the 4.10s and big stalls. I had that on my Mustangs, and that's just not my style anymore. I really want to keep the "muscular but refined" factory approach to the MM. I think its the perfect blend right now!

Edit- BTW, as was noted, the car will stay there for a few more days for some power tweaking and refining everything else. I'll pick it up Tuesday and drive it about 2 weeks before the Trilogy blower goes on. I should have a good indication of how the typical 04 normally aspirated tune works out by then. I'll be sure to update.

[Lidio]

I started this thread to announce the involvement and release of our chip for the ’04 Marauders with and with out a Trilogy blower. Didn’t want it to turn into a full blown “knock sensor” discussion, but I’ll do my best with this one.

What we do and don’t do with the knock sensors either with their physical location or tuning regardless of every ones opinions works for us and works very, very good. This is not an exaggeration. It’s out there on paying customers cars with no problems. Drilling new holes and reinstalling them in the valley is an option all of us considered but felt that it might be a job that was out of reach for some people and became out of the realm of being a bolt on kit. Plus I new that I would tune around them or with out them from the begining.

And as far as putting them in the cylinder heads picking up valve train noise….I’m sure this is possible, but where not dealing with solid lift cams here. Knock sensors are tuned for actual pinging not valve train clatter.
Plus I’ve monitored the timing on quite a few Trilogy equipped cars since the kits conception and have yet to see the timing do some thing I didn’t instruct it to do with the sensors being in the heads under any conditions.

Even if putting them in the cylinder heads is not perfect we don’t want to tune till the point of knock and then expect the computer to save the day all the time. I don’t ever want the tuning efforts I do to knock at all.

If knock sensors are so important why didn’t the ’03 Cobra come with any?? The ’03 Cobra is one of the baddest boosted things ever produced, and hhmmm no knock sensors??

Maybe with a responsible tune you just don’t need to worry about it I think. Some people make to much about tuning till the ragged edge and then just let the CPU handle the knock. On blower applications with non forged pistons it is truly like waling on egg shells, I try not to ever let them knock period!! Running the timing till the edge, knocking them and then letting the CPU pull it back is one to many for me with those pistons and boost. We have a large customer base with the junk stock pistons in countless mustangs with 4.6 two and four valves that are going strong with boost and no short block failures. Boosting the 4.6L in the Marauder (and making it run good and live) is nothing new to me at all in any way.
It’s the essentially the same motor I started boosting in the Cobras way back in ’96. It’s only tugging a few more pounds in the MM.

I have no problem with tuning certain application till the edge, when I’m asked to or with my own stuff. But as a recognized installation center for 14 years and an established tuner for almost as long, you tend to look at things concerning tuning with more conservativeness because of the volume of cars we tune. When a car leaves our facitly theirs no doubt theirs some power left in it. It’s no rumer about us. We try to tune for safety. On Mustang forums (which I don’t participate in much)…Stanger's always discus how our shop tunes for to much safety. And how vehicles have left our facility and gone to other “Hot Shot” tuner and found more power. As if I couldn’t add timing and lean it out too!!

Sorry if this seems defensive but we all have our opionion and mine have been earned with a satified customer base… not from one or two projects. Tuners that suck don’t make it for long in this business, so with out sounding kocky about it, I have to believe I've done some thing right till now?

This is more about our tuning procedures (http://www.alternativeauto.com/tuning/tuning_philosophy.html)

[MikesMerc]

Those of us who want a reliable "true" street rod tune appreciate Lidio's expertise. I've riden in 3 Trilogy blown cars as of today tuned by Lidio, and all were extremely hard hitters that ran with superb street manners.

I've had a good number of my own personal experiences with his shop and have had more than a few Mustangs built/blown/modded/tuned by Lidio over the years. I met him the first time when I just had gears put in my '86 GT in the spring of '89. He's tuned everything I've had since then from a basic bolt on 5.0, to a full-on, 480rwhp 13psi blower street/strip car. I have total confidence in him.

A car like the MM just begs for a roots type blower, and with Jerry and Lidio working together, I think the kit has been done well. When I've had an opportunity to talk to Steve Babcock (I work with his son, Brian, so I get to pick Steve's brain :up: ), we talked a lot about the Trilogy. And Lidio's Trilogy install was what he personally endorsed for me for the closest thing to what "the factory should have built".

Just my 2 cents on the previous "off topic" comments.

[SergntMac]

I started this thread to announce the involvement and release of our chip for the ’04 Marauders with and with out a Trilogy blower. Didn’t want it to turn into a full blown “knock sensor” discussion, but I’ll do my best with this one.
Maybe you're disappointed with the distraction, but I'm not. Never hurts to cover these things, sharing the 411 is important too. Nice job, thanks!

[junehhan]

Damnit with all of this blower talk :(

Must.........Not.........Void. ........Warranty!!! :)

This is a nice discussion, and if I finally lose my self restraint and "have" to have a blower put on my car, I would definately be interested in a conservative reliable tune rather than trying to eek every last hp out since it is my daily driver. The problem, is that I don't have a very high level of self restraint :(

[MikesMerc]

Heh heh...I said the same thing:)

I wouldn't void my warranty.
The MM made the perfect daily driver just as it sits.
I was over the whole "mod" scene.

That lasted about 5 seconds after Jerry took me for a ride in the Trilogy #1 car :burnout: The power, yet OEM feel to it, was amazing.

The car has about 1600 miles on it. I'm sure the blower will be on before it hits 2000. Oh well :D

[Lidio]

Mac....

It’s not at all a disappointment or a distraction... if it was; I wouldn’t have joined this forum as a supporting vendor. Just wears on the finger tips with the key board, and the noggin trying to be as detailed and as helpful as I can some times.
Hey, any news on your widened wheels?? Have you used them yet??



Junehhan….

If it helps any with letting go of that factory warranty, remember this, if you leave it stock… in the event of an engine failure, the factory warranty will only repair or give you back another boring 302HP engine that is already not cutting it in a 4500lbs car with two adults in it!!! Can you really live with that??;)
Or you could pretend you just hit 36K on the car. What’s the difference I say if you do it now or wait for the warranty to end. After 36K they won’t help and you’re in the same boat, and until then it can be tough on the nerves knowing what can be done to the MM to enhance its performance. Plus if you do mod the engine only the power train warranty will be most likely void. Not the rest of it like door locks, air bags, power windows etc.

From what I’ve seen most new Fords that are maintained won’t use the warranty on the power train any way. Its always chicken ***** stuff that needs fixing.

You want it... you know you want it!!! :pimp:

[junehhan]

Like I said, I have absolutely no self restraint, so you gotta stop tempting me! I do plan on making a visit up there when I finally decide what I want to do for the time being. Right now, i'm saving up for a set of long tube headers, x-pipe, and 4.10 gears along with a dyno tune which is why I want to make sure it's done right by someone respectable on this board.

[MI2QWK4U]

Like I said, I have absolutely no self restraint, so you gotta stop tempting me! I do plan on making a visit up there when I finally decide what I want to do for the time being. Right now, i'm saving up for a set of long tube headers, x-pipe, and 4.10 gears along with a dyno tune which is why I want to make sure it's done right by someone respectable on this board.

Keep in mind that Trilogy is hosting an open house the weekend of June 26. Might be a good time to pay a visit to the Detroit area, check out the open house and Lidio's shop in one trip, maybe get a dyno tune while you are at it! You wont regret getting the supercharger, I love mine and cant imagine the car without it. Anytime anyone wants to drive a Trilogy car, I am happy to toss my keys for a test drive......

[junehhan]

Keep in mind that Trilogy is hosting an open house the weekend of June 26. Might be a good time to pay a visit to the Detroit area, check out the open house and Lidio's shop in one trip, maybe get a dyno tune while you are at it! You wont regret getting the supercharger, I love mine and cant imagine the car without it. Anytime anyone wants to drive a Trilogy car, I am happy to toss my keys for a test drive......


That might be a good idea actually, although I better avoid test driving a Trilogy supercharged Marauder since i'll probably lose all sense of rationality and buy it...........so many temptations :(

What I like, is that Detroit is only about 4 hours away from me, and is the second closest Marauder tuner other than Kenny Brown.

[MI2QWK4U]

That might be a good idea actually, although I better avoid test driving a Trilogy supercharged Marauder since i'll probably lose all sense of rationality and buy it...........so many temptations :(

What I like, is that Detroit is only about 4 hours away from me, and is the second closest Marauder tuner other than Kenny Brown.


You can check in either the Trilogy forum or the Motor City Marauders forum for updates on the open house. The motor city crew will show you a good time and you will be sold as soon as you drive the car, and realize the smooth drivability and bone jarring power the cars have...almost like a jeckle and hyde!

[junehhan]

I think i'll pass on the test drive, but thank you...........

I know for a fact that i'll be sold on the Trilogy setup, which is why I have to pass on the test drive to keep myself from buying it. When I do supercharge, that will be the setup, but i'm very paranoid about the warranty.

[SergntMac]

Mac....

It’s not at all a disappointment or a distraction... if it was; I wouldn’t have joined this forum as a supporting vendor. Just wears on the finger tips with the key board, and the noggin trying to be as detailed and as helpful as I can some times. Hey, any news on your widened wheels?? Have you used them yet??
Yep, the wheels are on the street and performing well. Lot's of compliments on the welds too. Thank you, Lidio, another job well done.

[Ross]

At first I was worried about the warranty, too. Then, after I drove the Trilogy car at Ennis, I said "to hell with the warranty!" Now it's just finances that are keeping me from getting Trilogy/Lidio setup.