annoying starting problem - rough running after cold start

[scolazz]

So earlier in the week, I went to move my car, and it barely started up. Struggled to catch, and when it did finally start, the whole car was shaking and it was running real rough. I let it run a minute, stopped and started it a few times (though it didnt want to), and it finally ran smooth and I got the car moved.

Next day it happened again. The battery was 10 years old (orig. to the car), so I had that replaced. Everything has been great for a few days, started right up in the mornings, ran out shopping, no problems.

This morning, went to go to the post office, and the same thing happened. The car barely turned over and when it did catch and run, it was real rough. Blipping the throttle to 3k, it would then stall and die. After a few times of this, it started and ran fine. I was able to get to the post office (2 mile drive) no problems, and in the parking lot it started right up just like normal. So it only seems to happen after sitting for a while I think. This may not be relevant, but I got a new job working from home so I'm not driving it nearly as much as I used to, but it still gets started and run for errands/groceries a few times a week. And it used to be fine letting it sit around all weekend without starting, so this problem is new.

Any thoughts? I'm wondering if I have a short somewhere draining the battery, but I really have no clue?

[martyo]

It's a ten year old battery in the cold weather of MA not holding a charge.....

Replace it.

I am not saying that that is what is causing teh rough idle problems but it can cause the slow to start condition.

[scolazz]

It's a ten year old battery in the cold weather of MA not holding a charge.....

Replace it.

I am not saying that that is what is causing teh rough idle problems but it can cause the slow to start condition.

i did replace the battery :) I happened again today with the brand new one :(

[martyo]

Check for codes.

[whitey]

Check your new battery's voltage, car off. Post it up. Then do it with the car running and post up what you find. Im going to sat its your alternator or a bad battery. If the alternator is fine, you likely have a slow draw/short thats draing your battery, or you have a bad battery to begin with.

[scolazz]

Unfortunately, I don't have a multimeter or anything to test it with. The guy that replaced the battery did test the alternator and do a 'drain test', and they both tested ok with whatever tool he used to test them. It *was* a AAA guy, but he seemed to have a clue. More than I do on these matters anyways :)


I've been doing some reading around the nets - apparently a 'fuel filter check valve' or bad fuel pump/clogged filter may cause this? Car sits around, fuel drains back into the tank, causing a rough start after sitting. Does this seem plausible?

[fastblackmerc]

Take it to a FLAPS and have the charging system checked out.

[scolazz]

Take it to a FLAPS and have the charging system checked out.

AAA checked it out for me, it all passed - drain test, charging system test, starter test, all looked OK. The battery tested OK, but was drained. But the battery's light was going red occasionally so I had it replaced just to be safe.

Gotta be a short somewhere, the more I think about it, but the drain test was OK (0.28A drain)?

[fastblackmerc]

Clean the MAF.

Clean the IAC.

Clean the throttle body.

Check the wire harness behind the cam cover on the drivers side, make sure its not rubbing on anything.

[scolazz]

Clean the MAF.

Clean the IAC.

Clean the throttle body.

Check the wire harness behind the cam cover on the drivers side, make sure its not rubbing on anything.

Hmm, throttly body...my gas pedal has been a bit sticky lately...hmmm

Unfortunately, I'm looking at about 24-40" of snow today and tomorrow, so these will have to wait :(

Edit - just checked the wiring harness, that looks OK. Looked around the engine compartment - what I *think* is the PCV valve (front of the passenger side cam cover) is all sticky and covered in oil. Might that be contributing?

[fastblackmerc]

Hmm, throttly body...my gas pedal has been a bit sticky lately...hmmm

Unfortunately, I'm looking at about 24-40" of snow today and tomorrow, so these will have to wait :(

Edit - just checked the wiring harness, that looks OK. Looked around the engine compartment - what I *think* is the PCV valve (front of the passenger side cam cover) is all sticky and covered in oil. Might that be contributing?

Is the check ball inside the PCV loose when you shake it? If not replace it and remember to take the plastic elbow off the old one.

Are the PCV rubber connections tight and not leaking? If they are not you could have a vacuum leak causing the problem.

[scolazz]

Is the check ball inside the PCV loose when you shake it? If not replace it and remember to take the plastic elbow off the old one.

Are the PCV rubber connections tight and not leaking? If they are not you could have a vacuum leak causing the problem.

good point. its snowing pretty hard now (and I'm supposed to be working :banana2:) so I'll check this when I can, but looking at it, it doesn't look too pretty. oil all around it.

[whitey]

Possibly a cracked PCV line?

[fastblackmerc]

Possibly a cracked PCV line?

Would probably run *****y all time with a cracked hard line or rubber connector.

[scolazz]

Would probably run *****y all time with a cracked hard line or rubber connector.

Yeah, it only runs *****y in the morning after sitting overnight. I have no clue what the problem actually is, but I'm leaning either towards a short somewhere, or a fuel delivery/filter/check valve type issue.

this morning after sitting all night, it barely started and ran like crap. But, I drove the 2 miles to the post office, and it started right up in the parking lot. And i just now ran outside and it started up completely fine after sitting for 3 hours this morning....and it sat from 7am until 9pm yesterday, and started right up last night.

:confused:

[L.Mark]

Mine had done a similiar thing... almost wouldn't start and got some shudder out of it. But then ran like a scolded dog. Also did it while sitting at a light several times. And those times the amp meter dropped to @10-11. Wonder if it's the same thing?

[scolazz]

did you do anything to fix it? I'll keep an eye on the voltage next time it happens, probably tomorrow afternoon after this snowpocalypse blows by.

[scolazz]

just a followup - we got 30+ inches of snow last night. Started the car this AM, it seemed to be sluggish starting up, but it ran fine after a slow start. After running for 20 minutes, I moved the car to snowblow the driveway, and it started right up normally when I had to move it back into the driveway...

[L.Mark]

It's done it about 3 times total, but not in awhile. Thinking of taking it to Ford and have them check it out. Figure I could get some use out of the Extended Factory Warrenty I bought. If they find the prob, I'll let you know what they found.

[scolazz]

I just want to follow up - it appears replacing the battery fixed the issue. That one time I thought I had the problem, I'm chalking up to me being paranoid on an especially cold morning where it may have started a little slower than usual. It's started up great since then, several times. So, I'm calling this closed for now :)

[fastblackmerc]

I just want to follow up - it appears replacing the battery fixed the issue. That one time I thought I had the problem, I'm chalking up to me being paranoid on an especially cold morning where it may have started a little slower than usual. It's started up great since then, several times. So, I'm calling this closed for now :)

Glad you got it fixed! :banana2:

[scolazz]

FML

You know, I almost didnt post my 'it's fixed' message so as not to jinx myself, but I did.

Anyways, just went to run to the store, and sure enough, rough start. It wasn't that bad - started right up, just ran rough, the car was shaking a bit while idling, both in and out of gear. After a minute, I said 'screw it' and headed out. Car was fine after that, and fine when I started it up in the store parking lot and the drive home.

So its only on cold starts that it runs rough and shakes. I guess I'll schedule some time with my buddy to get the IAC/MAF/throttle body cleaned and see if that helps.

GRRRRRR

[L.Mark]

Did you watch the amp gauge?? Did it flutter around10-11?

[Bruce Wayne]

change fuel filter, hope this helps

[scolazz]

change fuel filter, hope this helps

Yeah, Im going to get this scheduled along with the MAF/IAC/TB cleaning.

Started find this morning after sitting 24 hours, so the problem is intermittent. I'll get it fixed eventually :)

[vegasmarauder]

You might try this. On the cold start up. Bafore actually starting it, cycle the key from off to on (not start) about 5-6 times leaving it in the on position for 15 seconds to time out the fuel pump. Sometimes you can actually hear the pump sound like it is running slow.

Then try to start it. If it starts and runs fine, the system is not maintaining pressure overnight. It usually throws a low fuel pressure code and the CEL comes on, but I have seen one MM do it with no codes.

First fix is new fuel filter. By the way, never use a chinese made filter. I saw a low pressure reading with a test guage and changed the filter that was appeared to be recently changed. Even though I could blow air through it, it would not allow enough pressure to flow. That car would sputter out on long hard acceleration.

If the 5-6 cycle test solves the problem but it is still there with a new filter, then the pump is bad. They are variable speed pumps and as they get old they sluggish and don't respond fast enough to build up pressure.

Just some shade tree diagnostics to try before heading to the shop.

[8UWITH6]

Sorry guys a fuel filter will not do what you are describing. I assume you do not have a check engine light on. Even if you dont you can take it to a reputable shop and have them verify fuel pressure, and missfire counts. Your computer is smart enough to store missfires in Mode 6 on the scanner. Sounds like you might possible have a ignition coil dropping out. Dont rule out a possible fuel injector issue as well. What I am getting at is that if you dont have access to a good scanner and time to diagnose it then it might be best for a professional to look at your car. The diagnostic fee is usually about 100 dollars but its worth it to find out exactly what will fix the vehicle. Or you can just keep throwing parts at it.............. which I would not suggest :)