15.x 1/4 mile times. Why?

[Logizyme]

I'm sure this may have been discussed before, I did a quick search and could'nt find anything, excuse me if this is in the wrong catagory.

so stock marauder 1/4 mile times are said to be in the low-mid 15's

besides the obvious size and weight, why are these cars so slow compared to other 300hp cars?

acording to zeroto60times.com:

Marauder: 15.2
mach1 (auto): 13.7
mach1 (manual): 13.0
98 GS400: 14.1
03 WRX STI: 13.1
03 Evo VIII: 13.3

so is it just the size and weight? or something else also?

and my follow up question, what does it take(mod's) to get the marauder into the low 13's like the rest of these 300hp cars?

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

The weight and stock tune suck. The gearing isn't the best for the quarter either.

[DOOM]

These cars came seriously detuned from the factory!

Gas mileage was another factor. Everyone will tell you that the marauder should have come from the factory with 4:10 gears and not the 3:55's.

But if they went with 4:10's you would of had to pay a gas guzzler tax!

[yjmud]

mine bone ass stock ran 14.92

[RacerX]

Word on the street is that the guy zeroto60times.com chose to test drive the marauder weighed 482lbs.


Btw, before I did any mods on mine and took it to the track, I got my azz handed to me by a vic that was lightly modded. Never again!

[Joe Walsh]

Physics is physics:

HEAVY automatic sedan with highway gears and a little V8 that needs to rev to make decent power.

[Logizyme]

so, CAI, Tune, and gears(4.10/4.30) can get us into the 13's?

[Bluerauder]

... and my follow up question, what does it take(mod's) to get the marauder into the low 13's like the rest of these 300hp cars?

To get into the low 13's, you gotta put about 302-310 HP to the rear wheels (or about 355-365 at the flywheel). That will get you into the 13.27 to 13.40 range. You have to do just about every mod short of a SuperCharger to get there. Tune, 4.10 gears, exhaust, headers, CAI, high stall torque converter, etc.

Check out "03mmmonroe"s mods to get an idea. N/A car. He is at 13.404 @ 101.78 with 302 RWHP.

"Cruztaker" ran 13.27 @ 103.21 back in October 2004 as N/A and was never able to beat that record on a cold/dry night. He may have been closer to 305-309 RWHP; but his info is gone now. He went S/C back in 2009-2010.

"Joe Walsh" is at 12.919 @ 103.83 with his 5.0L Big Bore DOHC N/A, headers, hi-flow cats, and SS Magnaflows. He is at 325 RWHP.

There has been a challenge here for a couple years to get into the 12's as an N/A 4.6L car. Hasn't happened.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

As for your car comparisons, here's one ....

2003 Mach1. 3,380 lbs curb weight. 305 BHP. 11.08 lb per horsepower. Motor Trend says 13.88 (automatic) and 13.5 (5-speed manual)

2003 MM (Stock). 4,165 lbs curb weight. 302 BHP. 13.79 lb per horsepower. Somewhere in the 15.0-15.5 range.

2003 MM (w/Mods). 4,165 lbs curb weight. 365 BHP. 11.41 lb per horsepower. (Now much closer to the Mach1).

There's more to the story than this but the weight advantage of the Mach1, WRX and others you mentioned is a significant factor.

Get a supercharger if you want to get under 13 quickly.

[tbone]

Don't forget a high stall torque converter to get revs quickly and a custom tune for low and mid range big torque increases. I'm hoping to raise a few eyebrows this spring......

[UncleLar]

Physics is physics:

HEAVY automatic sedan with highway gears and a little V8 that needs to rev to make decent power.
X2
Still,not too shabby for a "Grandpa's car".

[ctrlraven]

Detuned is an understatement.

Next to the power increase for a diesel via SCT, the Marauder boast the most power increase from a tune for a NA Ford vehicle. Most owners can expect to see 20-25rwhp and 30-35rwtq increase (I think SCT used to claim 25rwhp/32rwtq increase).

Even a tune for my 08 Taurus SCT claims 8whp/12wtq increase and that's for a front wheel drive model, mine is all-wheel drive.

Next to a supercharger a tune for our cars is by far the best bang for your buck mod currently.

[Vortech347]

Because FAT.

[ctrlraven]

Because FAT.
or UNDER-POWERED.

[SC Cheesehead]

so, CAI, Tune, and gears(4.10/4.30) can get us into the 13's?

No.

But you may get into the mid-14's with those mods.

[sailsmen]

I believe Steve aka TripleTransAm had the fastest stock MM @14.56.

[L.Mark]

So...what is the RWHP for a stock Marauder???

[sailsmen]

I'm sure this may have been discussed before, I did a quick search and could'nt find anything, excuse me if this is in the wrong catagory.

so stock marauder 1/4 mile times are said to be in the low-mid 15's

besides the obvious size and weight, why are these cars so slow compared to other 300hp cars?

acording to zeroto60times.com:

Marauder: 15.2
mach1 (auto): 13.7
mach1 (manual): 13.0
98 GS400: 14.1
03 WRX STI: 13.1
03 Evo VIII: 13.3

so is it just the size and weight? or something else also?

and my follow up question, what does it take(mod's) to get the marauder into the low 13's like the rest of these 300hp cars?

What you have is a slow time for the Marauder and fast times for the other cars. Temp/% adds up to .75 to your best time.

[ctrlraven]

So...what is the RWHP for a stock Marauder???
230-245rwhp. It also depends on sea level, temps, etc etc.

I believe my bone stock dyno was 241rwhp/252tq.

[MrBluGruv]

You also kind of need to understand the importance of the power curve to understand your 1/4 mile dilemma.

Even 320 peak tq might not mean much if the majority of the higher torque is right there at peak.

Generally speaking (and with the exception of well-thought-out builds [which, in and of themselves, also tend to sacrifice longevity for big numbers, so you won't see them stock]), the higher your torque peaks, you will see weak low-RPM torque figures, and when you don't actually rev that high, that means your motor is pretty weak in the bigger picture.

Know your maximum RPM range, spec out a cam (or cams, as with this motor in particular) accordingly, then install a final gear (and torque converter as necessary) to compliment that power band correctly.

Remember the HP is a function of torque, and remember therefore that a big part of why these DOHC motors post so much more power than the SOHC motors from the factory is that the torque actually falls off much faster in the SOHC motors even though peak torque may not be that far apart.

For substantial low-end torque, you're gonna be fighting with the fact that you are only displacing 4.6 liters. This is why, in my opinion, forced induction has been so much more popular with ford guys than GM guys over the past 10-20 years, as you are effectively simulating an increase in displacement with boost.

[SC Cheesehead]

You also kind of need to understand the importance of the power curve to understand your 1/4 mile dilemma.

Even 320 peak tq might not mean much if the majority of the higher torque is right there at peak.

Generally speaking (and with the exception of well-thought-out builds [which, in and of themselves, also tend to sacrifice longevity for big numbers, so you won't see them stock]), the higher your torque peaks, you will see weak low-RPM torque figures, and when you don't actually rev that high, that means your motor is pretty weak in the bigger picture.

Know your maximum RPM range, spec out a cam (or cams, as with this motor in particular) accordingly, then install a final gear (and torque converter as necessary) to compliment that power band correctly.

Remember the HP is a function of torque, and remember therefore that a big part of why these DOHC motors post so much more power than the SOHC motors from the factory is that the torque actually falls off much faster in the SOHC motors even though peak torque may not be that far apart.

For substantial low-end torque, you're gonna be fighting with the fact that you are only displacing 4.6 liters. This is why, in my opinion, forced induction has been so much more popular with ford guys than GM guys over the past 10-20 years, as you are effectively simulating an increase in displacement with boost.

Spot on.

4.6 4V + Roots-type blower = lotsa low-end torque. :burnout:

[cragantler]

Wow, so I guess my 15.4 1/4 mile wasn't too shabby for my little ole 2v 4.6:bows:
Heck that was even with the 2.73s and smaller TB.
Can't wait until this spring when I throw in gears and have my 70mm TB :banana2:

[SC Cheesehead]

Wow, so I guess my 15.4 1/4 mile wasn't too shabby for my little ole 2v 4.6:bows:
Heck that was even with the 2.73s and smaller TB.
Can't wait until this spring when I throw in gears and have my 70mm TB :banana2:

Yup, I see 15.10's in your future...

[cragantler]

Yup, I see 15.10's in your future...
Yeah, I'm only throwing in 3.55 and the FRPP trac-lok.
Was at least hoping to get a high 14,really low 15.:beer:
For the car, that would make me happy.........for now:beatnik:

heck, I still beat a buddy's 1968 Z-28. Should really be able to embarrass him now

[SC Cheesehead]

Yeah, I'm only throwing in 3.55 and the FRPP trac-lok.
Was at least hoping to get a high 14,really low 15.:beer:
For the car, that would make me happy.........for now:beatnik:

heck, I still beat a buddy's 1968 Z-28. Should really be able to embarrass him now


Very reasonable target,

'68 Z? That would be an interesting match up!

[cragantler]

Very reasonable target,

'68 Z? That would be an interesting match up!


my mistake...it was a '69
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xyorIsv05k

[SC Cheesehead]

my mistake...it was a '69
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xyorIsv05k


The early Z cars were quick; ask me how I know...;)

[Blackened300a]

so, CAI, Tune, and gears(4.10/4.30) can get us into the 13's?

No, I ran 14.5s with those mods. A 3k stall converter, pulleys and opening up the exhaust will get you into the 13's. Also cold temps make a huge difference. I could run mid 13s all day in 50* temps. In 80* temps I'm back to a low 14 second car that has a hard time breaking traction.

Check out the "my garage" link in my sig for my mod list. So far my fastest is 13.5 on 93 octane and street tires.


To get into the low 13's, you gotta put about 302-310 HP to the rear wheels (or about 355-365 at the flywheel). That will get you into the 13.27 to 13.40 range. You have to do just about every mod short of a SuperCharger to get there. Tune, 4.10 gears, exhaust, headers, CAI, high stall torque converter, etc.

Check out "03mmmonroe"s mods to get an idea. N/A car. He is at 13.404 @ 101.78 with 302 RWHP.

"Cruztaker" ran 13.27 @ 103.21 back in October 2004 as N/A and was never able to beat that record on a cold/dry night. He may have been closer to 305-309 RWHP; but his info is gone now. He went S/C back in 2009-2010.

"Joe Walsh" is at 12.919 @ 103.83 with his 5.0L Big Bore DOHC N/A, headers, hi-flow cats, and SS Magnaflows. He is at 325 RWHP.

There has been a challenge here for a couple years to get into the 12's as an N/A 4.6L car. Hasn't happened.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++


Add me to the list this year. The short runner intake is going back on, race gas in the tank with my race gas tune, my exhaust is complete and Im possibly throwing 17" drag radials on the back to run a 4.30 aspect ratio. I'm hoping to get some track time the end of March or April when its still cold out. My car is maxed out for NA bolt-ons so this will be all or nothing for the race for fastest NA marauder.
I dynoed in at 296rwhp before the long tube headers on stock exhaust pipes so I gotta be in the 310-315rwhp range as it sits. Add race gas to the mix with my tune and Ill be within the 325-330rwhp range which should be enough to move me up the time slip page.


So...what is the RWHP for a stock Marauder???

235-240rwhp and torque in the 260 area. The rated hp of the engine is done on a stand with no accessories. It's a advertising gimmick car manufacturers been doing for years.

[Bluerauder]

Add me to the list this year. The short runner intake is going back on, race gas in the tank with my race gas tune, my exhaust is complete and Im possibly throwing 17" drag radials on the back to run a 4.30 aspect ratio.

As I recall, Barry/Cruztaker was running 110 Octane race gas for his 13.27 pass. He also pulled the driver's side headlight to improve airflow and he "Iced" down his intake with 10 pound bags of ice between each run. Of course my memory is starting to fade since 2004. ;)

Here's a pic from that night some 8 years ago .... see anyone that you recognize??

From Left (Kneeling) -- Tasha, Haggis, Ladyhawke
From Left (Standing) -- MarauderMark, Bluerauder, Cruztaker, fat bastid, JET, merc, Mike Poore
Working the cameras -- Son of Bluerauder (SOB), Pam, MAD 3-R, and MarauderPeg

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/medium/Mercury_Club_Pics_050.jpg (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/22301/title/mason-dixon-dragway-2c-23-october-2004/cat/500)

[Blackened300a]

As I recall, Barry/Cruztaker was running 110 Octane race gas for his 13.27 pass. He also pull the driver side headlight to improve airflow and he "Iced" down his intake with 10 pound bags of ice between each run. Of course my memory is starting to fade since 2004. ;)

Here's a pic from that night some 8 years ago .... see anyone that you recognize??

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/medium/Mercury_Club_Pics_050.jpg (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/22301/title/mason-dixon-dragway-2c-23-october-2004/cat/500)

Ill be doing the same. I know 6 out of 10. ;)

[Bluerauder]

Ill be doing the same. I know 6 out of 10. ;)
If it makes a difference Barry/Cruztaker was running Pirelli P-Zero streets that were nearly bald due to the "Street Class". Of course, they got worn down considerably more as the night went on. You know Barry, the former "King of Smoke". ;)

[na svt]

If you're racing on 16" tires the 4.10s will be okay as will 4.30s. With stock dia tires the heavy ass marauder needs at least 4.30s if not 4.56s.

Weights:
Mach 1 auto...3475
Marauder.......4195

Gearing/tire diameter
Mach 1 .....3.55/26"
Marauder...3.55/28.5"

The Marauder is 600lb more than an Auto Mach 1 with a much higher final drive ratio...that's why it's so much slower.

[Spectragod]

My DTR MM is a solid 15.4 second car..........:rolleyes:

[na svt]

My DTR MM is a solid 15.4 second car..........:rolleyes:
Maybe DTR is heavier than the other colors.

[Spectragod]

Maybe DTR is heavier than the other colors.

nope.....just slower than the rest.:D

[Vortech347]

or UNDER-POWERED.

Stick one of these engines stone stock in a Factory five car and run low 12's all day. :D

I ran 15.20's with mine at 7800ft density. My 03' was a DOG, same mods it ran 16.0's

[na svt]

Stick one of these engines stone stock in a Factory five car and run low 12's all day.
The Marauder is roughly twice the weight of a FF.

Power to weight is everything, therefore the Marauder is very under powered.

[TFB]

Not all of us are under powered...

[Vortech347]

The Marauder is roughly twice the weight of a FF?

Power to weight is everything, therefore the Marauder is very under powered.

True, but any kind of racing to win you're handicapping yourself starting with a 4400lb car. Unless of course you are racing in a specific class with weight requirements. Less is always more. Better breaking, cornering, accelerating, ect... Now if you're just screwin around. Its fun in a big ass car. :)

[slickster]

i did 14.7 with a cai and 93 can tune with summer night weather

[Spectragod]

True, but any kind of racing to win you're handicapping yourself starting with a 4400lb car. Unless of course you are racing in a specific class with weight requirements. Less is always more. Better breaking, cornering, accelerating, ect... Now if you're just screwin around. Its fun in a big ass car. :)

Just horsing around is the right phrase, I never intended mine to win any races, just embarrass almost everything on the street, it does a real good job of that.:burnout:

[sailsmen]

In the 1,320' I Maul a lot of cars, over 80% of the ones I line up against on a heads up basis. *

Can a Marauder hold its own on the track with a Lamborgini?
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19385&highlight=ferrari

*
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85285
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83588
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83301
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74604
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74177
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=70160
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69665
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=68897
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59547
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59482
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=45832
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39785
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=38254
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36682
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35350
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31302
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31192
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21306
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18149
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17172
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16175
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14378
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14228
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14212
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13761
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13068
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11897
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11281
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9441
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9229
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9111

[mustang50lx]

I'm sure this may have been discussed before, I did a quick search and could'nt find anything, excuse me if this is in the wrong catagory.

so stock marauder 1/4 mile times are said to be in the low-mid 15's

besides the obvious size and weight, why are these cars so slow compared to other 300hp cars?

acording to zeroto60times.com:

Marauder: 15.2
mach1 (auto): 13.7
mach1 (manual): 13.0
98 GS400: 14.1
03 WRX STI: 13.1
03 Evo VIII: 13.3

so is it just the size and weight? or something else also?

and my follow up question, what does it take(mod's) to get the marauder into the low 13's like the rest of these 300hp cars?


I had an automatic Mach 1. It was more 14.30 stock. Gears, a converter, wheels and tires, and a tune got it way in the 12's with a 12.66 being the best.

[SC Cheesehead]

I had an automatic Mach 1. It was more 14.30 stock. Gears, a converter, wheels and tires, and a tune got it way in the 12's with a 12.66 being the best.


How about your Marauder?

[mustang50lx]

How about your Marauder?

I haven't run it yet. I will be running it stock when the weather warms up.

[SC Cheesehead]

I haven't run it yet. I will be running it stock when the weather warms up.

Keep us posted, always interested in seeing strip times.

Is the car stock or have you done any mods to it?

[mustang50lx]

Keep us posted, always interested in seeing strip times.

Is the car stock or have you done any mods to it?


Stock right now.