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duhtroll
03-09-2004, 04:17 PM
OK, so I spend all this money getting an anti-radar and anti-laser system, and what happens?

I get a ticket for passing some guy "contrary to highway sign." I have never seen so much :bs: The Iowa State Patrol's quest for revenue continues.

For those of you that have driven hilly country roads, you know that some of those areas for passing (single dotted line your side) are a pathetic excuse for the room you actually need.

Today I am on my way home, and some guy in his 34 year old POS pickup is going 45-50. We hit the single dotted line so I pass him -- rather slowly. I get by him and back into my lane, but apparently I did it "a couple markers into the no passing zone" because I was stopped and ticketed - a couple minutes later.

The LEO came up on me from at *least* 1/2 mile back, and said he had a great view of the alleged violation. He admitted he was 3 cars back. I could not see him at all until a full 1.5 miles after the "spot of the foul" when he came up to me.

I have always been complacent on speeding because I know I did it. This time I wasn't even speeding and I get hit with a $85 fine. I'm going to court on this one.

Strategy hints are most welcome. I plan to go back with pictures of the violation zone to prove it is impossible to pass legally without going 90, as well as ask for probation. This is a state trooper who I seriously doubt will show up. He works Bremer County, and we had just crossed the line into Black Hawk County, where I live. He had to go back to the car and get a different envelope for me to mail in my fine. Ain't gonna happen!

From the conversation I had with the LEO, I now assume I am supposed to go WOT, no matter the resultant speed, so I can stay in those tiny zones if I want to pass? LEOs help me out here.

Little help, guys?

Thanks!

-Andrew

Paul T. Casey
03-09-2004, 04:20 PM
I'd fight this one, tell the judge what happened and perhaps the LEO didn't have that good of a view. I think you got back just as the dots went away.

TAF
03-09-2004, 04:21 PM
Lesson to be learned..."never just pass 'em...blow by the stupid :censor:"

woaface
03-09-2004, 04:24 PM
Well, the avitar says it all.

Help? I'd push the idea that he had a bad view of the problem, and it wasn't enough to endanger anyone, that you passed in a resonable and prudent manner...

MarauderMark
03-09-2004, 04:31 PM
The Iowa State Patrol's quest for revenue continues.





This is the only reason you got the fine..

Marauderman
03-09-2004, 04:44 PM
Lesson to be learned..."never just pass 'em...blow by the stupid :censor:"
Oh Yeah! I love that Reply...all MM drivers I thought did this!!! I do but must be careful cause ...well....cause...It's a different experience....and actually have only done it once since I got the S/C....after all..only had it 10 weeks and most of that has been in the garage....only 1400 clicks since I've had it!!


Sorry --didn't mean to hi-jack your thread---sorry for the ticket..really is crap--Go fight it..and take video ..it worked once for me a long time ago......Tom

jgc61sr2002
03-09-2004, 09:46 PM
Definitely plead NOY GUILTY. If the officer doesn't appear on the court date there is a good possibility you can beat the summons. If the officer is present you can ask for an adjournment to attain council. Good luck.

teamrope
03-09-2004, 09:47 PM
That's :bs: I'de fight it.

Marauderjack
03-10-2004, 04:15 AM
I had a similar experience many years ago and upon explaining that my intentions were to slow down and return to the following position but instinct told me that the other guy would slow down also and leave me hanging in the oncoming traffic lane....Soooo, I went on!!

Judge said that was plausible and no harm was done....tossed it out and all was well!! Had there been a crash in this scenario....I would have been charged but the split second decision was appropriate considering the circumstances!!

Good Luck!
Marauderjack :pimp:

Ross
03-10-2004, 08:49 AM
Definitely plead NOY GUILTY. If the officer doesn't appear on the court date there is a good possibility you can beat the summons. If the officer is present you can ask for an adjournment to attain council. Good luck.

Be sure to check the local procedures in the court where you will be. Down here, some municipal or Justice of the Peace courts (where tickets are usually heard) require you to ask for a continuance or resetting of the court date BEFORE you appear. If you appear and ask for a reset, they will tell you it's too late. Always check local court rules and procedures. This is from a lawyer who practices in several states.

ParkRanger
03-10-2004, 09:52 AM
Bring the pictures of the lanes and express yourself to the judge just like you did here on the thread. Take your time, articulate and be respectful - DISMISSED!

:up:

2003 MIB
03-10-2004, 10:36 AM
I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV but this worked for me in the past. I'm sure Ross, Jim or Marty would tell you that the man who represents himself has a fool for a client- they are probably right.

I used the continuance to buy some time and create the possibility of memory fade in the LEO. I then argued "standards of evidence" based on the event that occurred four months ago. Praise the officer for having a hard job and his commitment to safety and ascertain the number of tickets he wrote that month- he'll either not recall or give a huge number. Respectfully deny the event occurred per the LEO's recollection. Then claim the officer wrote X amount of tickets that month. I had only received the one ticket in that timeframe. I then claimed it was a significant emotional event and that my recollection was better than the ticketing routine that the LEO was entrenched in. That creates "reasonable doubt" and that's the criterion. It got me Deferred Adjudication on the offense and all was well. They get revenue and I don't get increased insurance premiums.
I would also throw in there somewhere that you are an educator- maybe it cuts you some slack. Good Luck.

The offense was failure to yield.

duhtroll
03-10-2004, 12:05 PM
I also spoke to my dad who happens to be an attorney. He told me that it's probable they schedule the hearings when the officer is available to be in court, and it has been his experience that they usually show up for these.

I have a formula in my head, well kinda. Using the LEO's statement that he was 3 cars behind me, at a speed of 55 MPH, using the 2-second following rule as an average, that's a MINIMUM of 1/5-1/4 mile back - and through 3 other cars on a 2-lane road. That's not a "great visual" like he wrote in his notes (he left me the notepad PC to sign while he went to his car so I got a few seconds to read his notes).

That and the fact that the passing zone really was not long enough unless I was to floor it. My defense will be adherence to the speed limit for safety reasons.

I am looking up the Iowa code on this - going to make sure it states that you must start and complete passing within the dotted line in the first place. It probably does but it's worth a shot.

EDIT: The above translates to 645 feet behind me, or 215 yards. "Great visual." :shake: :shake: :shake:

Thanks,
-A

2003 MIB
03-10-2004, 12:18 PM
That and the fact that the passing zone really was not long enough unless I was to floor it. My defense will be adherence to the speed limit for safety reasons.
-A
I like it-good luck.

CRUZTAKER
03-10-2004, 02:14 PM
Read the ticket details carefully, ie. the description of the scene, conditions, and his location vs. yours.

If he wrote on the ticket that he was two cars back, there is no way he could judge it. And unless he crossed the line himself as well, his dash cam didn't either.

I'd beat this one.

BTW: Bring a chalk board to court and have the officer draw the scene.....scene over!

duhtroll
03-10-2004, 02:21 PM
Barry, that's a great idea, if a bit confrontational. I was warned to not be confrontational - so I'll have to think about asking him to do that in a way that doesn't seem like I'm saying "Oh yeah? PROVE it!"

There are no details on the ticket. The only notes he made on his PC were "great visual."

I really want to simply go in and say "this is about money and nothing else and you know it," but that won't solve anything.

Thanks,
-A

woaface
03-10-2004, 03:57 PM
You also have the right to know what evidence he's got against you...did he video tape this? Try your hardest to get a copy or watch the original if so...:)

The state has the burden of proof to prove you did something wrong and engangered peoples lives in the process. Try to belittle that in nice ways:D

jgc61sr2002
03-10-2004, 05:00 PM
duhtroll - Have your father represent you in court.

duhtroll
03-10-2004, 05:24 PM
I thought of that - wrong state. ;)

He could theoretically show up, but it's a 2.5 hour drive and court is 9AM.

He and his brother did get fined $500 for contempt once because they took advantage of the fact that they look alike.

Cop gives Uncle Bob a ticket. Uncle Bob goes in to court and asks my dad all of the questions and the cop IDs my dad as the driver of the car. Ticket dismissed, $500 contempt fine issued. These two have the money to spend, so I guess they did it for fun. Come to think of it with insurance hikes $500 might have gotten them off cheap.

Can't think of anyone who looks like me, but that would be worth it to me too. :lol:

-A

TooManyFords
03-10-2004, 05:35 PM
Can I come and watch?? Never know what tips I may pick up!

:D

John

duhtroll
03-10-2004, 05:43 PM
John, you have much better mods, er, things to do than watch me in court.

Speaking of which, when are you doing my DR exhaust? :bounce:

You're certainly welcome - maybe you could vouch that all Marauder owners are certainly very safe drivers and would never, EVER do anything contrary to the law.

We can show them any article from Car & Driver stating how slow the MM is, and therefore it could not possibly have passed anyone.

:P

-A

TooManyFords
03-10-2004, 05:51 PM
John, you have much better mods, er, things to do than watch me in court.

Speaking of which, when are you doing my DR exhaust? :bounce:
Bring the parts over one of these weekends and we can put it up on the lift and git-r-done!


You're certainly welcome - maybe you could vouch that all Marauder owners are certainly very safe drivers and would never, EVER do anything contrary to the law.

We can show them any article from Car & Driver stating how slow the MM is, and therefore it could not possibly have passed anyone.

:P

-A That's what you need, a liar in court! :D

Cheers!

john

duhtroll
03-15-2004, 12:02 PM
OK, so what's the labor fee, and am I paying in dollars or beers?

:baaa:

-A

TooManyFords
03-15-2004, 12:11 PM
Oh, definitely in beers! ;)

john

duhtroll
03-15-2004, 12:21 PM
Just give me a brand name :beer: then, and as soon as I get ahold of my mufflers and some 2.5" diamter piping I will schedule a time to be over!

Thanks,
-A

PhkinQk
03-15-2004, 12:51 PM
Here in NY and all of New England it's all about revenue to the towns. So all we do, us ticket getters, is plea bargaining in the court with the cop, in CT it's with the Ass't DA.

In NY if you were really bad you can usually get them to reduce it to an 1110A failure to yield a traffic device if not really bad a seat belt both are two points I think. And if you are lucky and know enough cops but not enough to get it squashed you can plea down to a parking on the pavement, no points, lol. All at or over $100 fine.

So what is it that you're scared of? The ticket? The points? The man with the gun, lol??? :)

duhtroll
03-15-2004, 01:30 PM
It's the doubling in insurance premiums that will inevitably happen as a result of one minor traffic offense. It's all about money. The $85 fine is nothing - the extra $50 per month for two years is!

Thanks,
-A

PhkinQk
03-15-2004, 01:38 PM
The insurance companies here in NY don't check DMV abstract unless you give them a reason to. And I don't think they can surcharge on tickets, but they can drop you.

2003 MIB
03-15-2004, 01:42 PM
The insurance companies here in NY don't check DMV abstract unless you give them a reason to. And I don't think they can surcharge on tickets, but they can drop you.
In TX (I can't speak for IA), they don't drop you but they can move you from a "Standard" company to a "Mutual" company and raise the rates. It places you in the same pool as DWI folks and bad drivers. Bad news!

duhtroll
03-15-2004, 01:46 PM
OK I'm exaggerating a bit when I say "double," but it's not unheard of. All they (insurance folks) need/are looking for is an excuse to charge more $. I made one claim (a broken windshield from an errant highway pebble) a couple years ago and saw that in addition to the $250 deductible I also paid $13 per month for at least the next year. I have since switched insurance companies.

It adds up.

-A

PhkinQk
03-15-2004, 01:49 PM
Firstly get nondeductible glass, then they can't charge it against you ever...............secondly accidents are handled differently than moving violations in each state, not like accidents.

03SILVERSTREAK
03-15-2004, 01:53 PM
But put you in a high risk catagory to justify the high preminum... :mad2:

jgc61sr2002
03-15-2004, 09:15 PM
The insurance companies here in NY don't check DMV abstract unless you give them a reason to. And I don't think they can surcharge on tickets, but they can drop you.


The insurance companies in NY do random checks. They most definitely will surcharge you. Some will penilize you for more than three years and that could be a lot of $'s. :(

jgc61sr2002
03-15-2004, 09:19 PM
Firstly get nondeductible glass, then they can't charge it against you ever...............secondly accidents are handled differently than moving violations in each state, not like accidents.


A glass claim is a claim and is charged against you in NY. In some cases it is best not to make a claim and pay out of pocket.