Any hockey fans...

[MapleLeafMerc]

who've seen the Bertuzzi 'incident'? If you've not heard, Todd Bertuzzi of the Canucks lost it playing against Colorado and suckered Steve Moore of the Colorado Avalanche. Moore had punished Vancouver's Captain Markus Naslund with a bodycheck in an earlier game, putting Vancouver's highest scorer out for three games with a concussion.

In earlier times a player would never have messed with a team's top player for fear of being challenged to a fight in the next game. But since the league passed the instigator rule, cheap shots against good players have increased. Back when Edmonton and Gretzky were winning five Stanley Cups, NO ONE messed with the Great One. Dave Semenko would punch your lights out in the next game.

Not at all suggesting he deserved it, but he could have decided NOT to flatten Naslund in the first place.

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=7bd651da-6b26-4f71-89e6-1872cfddbfa7

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1197Bertuzzi.wmv

[Constable]

I just got back from the Devils / Flyers game. It was good, but I wanted to see Brashear level somebody. He played hard for the short amount of ice-time that he got. That guy is hands down the toughest player around.

While I was sitting at the bar afterwards, I saw the Bertuzzi thing on ESPN. Some of the guys were talking about giving him the rest of the season off. I dunno about that, but I really don't know how he should be punished. It was a total sucker punch... he fell right on his face like a ton of bricks!

[martyo]

I went to a boxing match once and a hockey game broke out...

[halucin8]

It looks like Toronto got our best player, Ron Francis. TRAITOR!!!! :bs:

I guess the Hurricanes will suck even worse next season. :(

[Haggis]

...In earlier times a player would never have messed with a team's top player for fear of being challenged to a fight in the next game. But since the league passed the instigator rule, cheap shots against good players have increased. Back when Edmonton and Gretzky were winning five Stanley Cups, NO ONE messed with the Great One. Dave Semenko would punch your lights out in the next game.


Unless your name was Billy Smith. The problem that I had with Gretzky was that he would cry at the slightest infraction. :cry:

But, back to the subject. It is a shame the the League is trying to stop the fighting. Like it or not it is part of the game.

There was a real tough player back in the earlier '90s named John Kordic. He played for the Capitals (chokers), I remember one game were he skated out onto the ice grap the toughest guy on the Penguins and beat the snot out of him. Kordic dropped him with one punch picked him back up, dropped him again and then picked him up the third time and put the Penguin back down on the ice. The officials stopped it at that point. Kordic had three fights and a total of 25 penalty minutes that game. He was later traded to Quebec where he enter rehab, but later died of an overdose.



New York Islanders
Stanley Cups Champions
(1980, 1981, 1982, 1983)

[TAF]

What team does Brian Boitano play for??!!

http://www.alltheweb.com/r?ck_sm=9543a790&rpos=2&oid=-&rpge=1&ref=200340086&r=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dolshouse.c om%2Fqueensmen%2Fimage%2Fboita no_fs-5747.jpg

We have a hockey (is that how you spell it?) team here in Atlanta. They're called the "Thrashers"...nobody goes to their games...and basically to make news, the star player has to kill someone in his Ferrari....

Give me S.E.C. Football for a REAL sport!!!;) :rock: :baaa:

[MapleLeafMerc]

It looks like Toronto got our best player, Ron Francis. TRAITOR!!!! :bs:

Yeah, we managed to make our team even older than it was;). Seriously, though, he will definitely be an asset for this year's playoff run. With the strike possibility and the team's average age, it could be our last shot for a while...




There was a real tough player back in the earlier '90s named John Kordic. He played for the Capitals (chokers), I remember one game were he skated out onto the ice grap the toughest guy on the Penguins and beat the snot out of him. Kordic dropped him with one punch picked him back up, dropped him again and then picked him up the third time and put the Penguin back down on the ice. The officials stopped it at that point. Kordic had three fights and a total of 25 penalty minutes that game. He was later traded to Quebec where he enter rehab, but later died of an overdose.

He spent some time in Toronto too. I recall reading about him some time after his death; a 'hard knocks' guy who earned his living as an enforcer.

[Haggis]

He spent some time in Toronto too. I recall reading about him some time after his death; a 'hard knocks' guy who earned his living as an enforcer.


Yea that's him. He didn't skate to well and I think he might have only scored a goal or two in his entire career. But, oh man could he fight, I always wanted to see him take on Domi or Probert, now that would have been a fight. He might have been better off making a living as a boxer. His younger brother played for the Penguins during their cup years, not as tough, but was a better skater.

[duhtroll]

Todd -

Brian Boitano plays for the "other" team.

-A

[TAF]

Todd -

Brian Boitano plays for the "other" team. You know...Marty's Team...

-AI'm glad I didn't say that^^^ :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[jrzygrl]

According to AOL, his neck is broken and he's out for the Season, so is the guy who "sucker punched" him. It's a shame but the risk is there, like any sport. Besides, isn't that why we love hockey so much..the fights are the best part, no?

[duhtroll]

Jrzy - with a response like that you must be the woman of my dreams.

And so close to my member # too! ;)

-A

[MapleLeafMerc]

According to AOL, his neck is broken and he's out for the Season, so is the guy who "sucker punched" him. It's a shame but the risk is there, like any sport. Besides, isn't that why we love hockey so much..the fights are the best part, no?

Again, not to imply that Moore deserved to be hurt like this, but...

When the judge sentenced McSorley for whacking Brashear on the head with his stick, part of his reasoning was that stick swinging is not a risk hockey players accept when they put on skates (as opposed to fisticuffs).

I don't know what kind of player Moore has been, but cheap shots at any team's captain (esp. one not noted for fighting or being physically aggressive) will make you a target. Many other players would have faced the music, fought Bertuzzi openly and gotten it over with.

[Haggis]

Again, not to imply that Moore deserved to be hurt like this, but...

When the judge sentenced McSorley for whacking Brashear on the head with his stick, part of his reasoning was that stick swinging is not a risk hockey players accept when they put on skates (as opposed to fisticuffs).

I don't know what kind of player Moore has been, but cheap shots at any team's captain (esp. one not noted for fighting or being physically aggressive) will make you a target. Many other players would have faced the music, fought Bertuzzi openly and gotten it over with.


Correct, cheap shots should not be tolerated by anyone. I have been following Hockey for 30yrs now and have seen a lot of them. With the McSorley incident, the hockey stick is a dangerous weapon and should be treated as such. All stick related infractions should be dealt with very strictly. I did not see what Moore did to Naslund in the other game, but Moore did not have a chance against Bertuzzi. What Bertuzzi did was wrong, he should never have punched him from behind. What he should have done was skate up to him turn him around and then kicked the snot out of him and faced him man to man.

I do not believe in any use of the stick to injure nor do I believe in hitting someone from behind (boarding), but any open ice body check should be allowed, especially if the other guy is not paying attention.

Fighting it is part of the game and I hope it stays that way.

[Paul T. Casey]

See above post from Haggis for my exact feelings. Jrzygirl, I think the skills part of the game is the best part, TAF, funny how you managed to find the only switch hitter on ice this year, halucin8 I too feel that pain (former Whaler season ticket holder) MapleLeaf Merc, with "Ronnie Hockey" on your team now, I'd get those Stanley Cup tickets now, before the lines get too big. Francis, IMHO, is the best player to put on any team.

[TripleTransAm]

The problem with the direction that the fighting is taking is that it is increasingly taking away from the sport itself. While it may be an integral part of the North American version of the sport, the fighting is slowly eclipsing and overshadowing the actual definition and beauty of the game: puck handling and skating.

While I may be exaggerating to make the point, with too much emphasis on the hitting and fighting, the game will eventually morph to the point where you might as well not use hockey sticks. And then you might as well do away with the hockey puck, and perhaps replace it with a hand-held object. The skates will become a hindrance, as will the ice itself. And then you end up with Football... not that there's anything wrong with that, except why call it Hockey?

On a personal note, I miss watching an exquisite display of puck handling and skating, especially when mixed in with some good teamwork. One of the things I despise about the Montreal Canadiens' offensive strategy (!) is the 20-year-long morphing of their attack methods from good skating and accurate shooting to dumping the puck into the zone and rushing the net. The ensuing skirmish and confusion around the goalie *sometimes* results in a goal, as the puck trickles in off someone's skate or bounces luckily off a stick and sneaks past the overloaded and outmuscled goalie... yippee :rolleyes: . I know good hockey isn't dead... watching other teams with their 3-on-3 attacks, gracefully putting strategy to ice as they work to outsmart the defense. Say what you will about Gretzky's complaints over on-ice roughness, but it doesn't take away from the fact that watching him in action put added emphasis on the game itself and not the fists.

[MapleLeafMerc]

One of the things I despise about the Montreal Canadiens' offensive strategy (!) is the 20-year-long morphing of their attack methods from good skating and accurate shooting to dumping the puck into the zone and rushing the net.

I think it's the trap, Steve. Weak and/or defensive minded teams use it to shut down skating and passing. They don't forecheck (attack), they just clog up the neutral zone with all 5 guys which forces the other team to dump and chase. And you're right, much of the time goals that result are of the "whack, whack, oops it's in" type. Not very pretty to watch.

Les Canadiens used to play what was called 'Firewagon' hockey. Edmonton resurrected it in the 80's, but it doesn't have too many followers today. :shake: Maybe some of the rule changes being discussed will help.

[Dr Caleb]

Say what you will about Gretzky's complaints over on-ice roughness, but it doesn't take away from the fact that watching him in action put added emphasis on the game itself and not the fists.

The man was poetry in motion.

As for fights, I think it's part of Hockey - drop the gloves and let's dance, but that guy should be gone forever. Banned from the NHL. I didn't get off early enough last night to catch the news, so I haven't seen the video, but when a sucker punch becomes life threatning, it's time to stop it in it's tracks.

[TripleTransAm]

Goons fighting goons is always good for entertainment... anytime you're in Montreal you should consider catching a Semi-Pro League game between the Verdun team (forgot the name) and the Laval Chiefs. Let's put it this way... the 'Chiefs' logo is identical to that used in the Slap Shot classic. By the 2nd period, there's usually an all-out brawl, and the crowd just eats it up.

But the danger is when the goons go after (and take out) the 'good' players. Eventually, the focus of the game shifts to heavy hitting and the scoring takes a back seat (essentially, the furthest seat back in the minivan, in fact). The end result is a game where physical contact takes priority, good hockey disappears, and you're left with a game where ... OOPS the puck trickled into the net, how about that!

[Smokie]

Let me preface by saying that hockey is not my game. My sports (that I played and know) are baseball, boxing and futbol (not football), my favorite sport to watch is football.

I watched the video: the cowardly sucker punch and a man falling on his face unconscious, some believe this is part of hockey. What I saw was attempted murder.

[MapleLeafMerc]

The man was poetry in motion.

As for fights, I think it's part of Hockey - drop the gloves and let's dance, but that guy should be gone forever. Banned from the NHL. I didn't get off early enough last night to catch the news, so I haven't seen the video, but when a sucker punch becomes life threatning, it's time to stop it in it's tracks.

The sucker punch isn't what did the most damage as I understand it; that happened when Bertuzzi pushed Moore down and Moore's head hit the ice. I hope no one is going to suggest that Bertuzzi intended to break his neck.

Here's the video link:

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1197Bertuzzi.wmv

[Smokie]

The sucker punch isn't what did the most damage as I understand it; that happened when Bertuzzi pushed him down to the ice and then six other guys piled on top of them.

Here's the video link:

http://www.mercurygallery.net/mmnet/data/500/1197Bertuzzi.wmv
The punch knocked the guy out, therefore he cannot protect himself going down... similar incident happened near my home about a year and a half ago, 21 year old sucker punched a 19 year old, one punch to the temple, kid died. The 21 year is in jail; was found guilty of second degree murder.

[duhtroll]

The Hanson Brothers are my heroes. :up:

Old time hockey? :D

Seriously, I do hope the guy is given some sort of punishment. It's one thing to see it coming - it's another to blindside. Granted, many, MANY players do the exact same type of thing and it's a shame it's never dealt with until it gets to this level.

I think fair fights should be part of the score, though, just like NHLPA Hockey (where it didn't matter how many goals were scored between me and my friends, just who had the most checks and who won the most fights)

I loved that game. Your teammate(s) charge and kill the goalie (penalties off, of course), and you tap it in from behind your own blue line.

Sigh, those were the days.

-A

[Smokie]

I think fair fights should be part of the score Agreed, one man facing another man... then let it rip.:D

[jrzygrl]

Jrzy - with a response like that you must be the woman of my dreams.

And so close to my member # too! ;)

-A Duhtroll, in response to that, much to my husbands dismay, I am the woman of many men's dreams...LOL!!! :rock:

Secondly, I in no way meant to imply with my earlier morning post that anyone deserves to be hurt that seriously in any sport..period, but, the unfortunate risk is a part of it. Still hockey is the fastest moving and most exciting sport I've had the pleasure to observe, just my little .02, nothing more :D

[MapleLeafMerc]

The punch knocked the guy out, therefore he cannot protect himself going down...

I don't think Bertuzzi could have known that his first swing would knock Moore out cold.

[Smokie]

Still hockey is the fastest moving and most exciting sport I've had the pleasure to observe, just my little .02, nothing more :D
It's a sport of incredible speed, power and grace....by the way my home town has a decent hockey team.:D Can you say...Lightning !!!!!

[MapleLeafMerc]

Secondly, I in no way meant to imply with my earlier morning post that anyone deserves to be hurt that seriously in any sport..period, but, the unfortunate risk is a part of it. Still hockey is the fastest moving and most exciting sport I've had the pleasure to observe, just my little .02, nothing more :D

Thank you, jrzygrl.

[UAW 588]

I went to a Blackhawks game Friday night and there were plenty of fights, but hardly any goals. I hate to say this being a Hawk fan nearly all my life, but they SUCK the big one. It's sad when you get 5 power plays and can only score once, and score ugly at that. I knew things had gotten bad here in Chicago, when Blackhawk fans where booing almost the entire game. I just wish Bill Wirtz would just disappear and never return. Then maybe someone would spend some money on the team. :mad:

[Dr Caleb]

I knew things had gotten bad here in Chicago, when Blackhawk fans where booing almost the entire game.

Same thing happened here last week when Mike Comrie returned after his little hissy fit that saw him traded to Philly and Phoenix. Everyone booed him right through both anthems :nono:.

[Dr Caleb]

I did see that hit last night on the news. I still think Bertuzzi should be banned for life, but I'd settle for him not playing again until Moore does.

There's no way to prove when Moore's neck was broken, but looking at the video, his neck is in an unnatural position when his head bounced immediately off the ice. Bertuzzi should me made to account for that.

There was one Aussie on the news last night who was stunned that there was even discussion on whether there should be charges laid. In Rugby, such a hit would warrant an immediate call to police, and for anyone who doesn't know, Rugby is basically a WWE Raw event with 20 guys and a ball.

[Mad1]

I knew things had gotten bad here in Chicago, when Blackhawk fans where booing almost the entire game.

At least your mascot isn't living on top of the arena in "hopes" of causing enough people to buy tickets to the next home game for a sellout. We can't even give away tickets to the Predators, despite hiring away your top scorer (Sullivan). ;)

Here's hoping we make the playoffs ... and don't embarass ourselves in the process. Oops! Too late. :stupid:

Mad1
Jeremy

A displaced Redwings fan in Dixie.