Gear Swap

[jettle]

It this something that can be done at home? I was quoted 500 + to have a mechanic install gears. I did not think it would be that tough....

What special tools are needed if any.

Thanks,
Jeff

[spotbearsd]

Im looking at my receipt for the 4:10 gear install...

Labor 4 hours @ $80 = $320
Fluids = $14.50

Hope this helps.. that labor rate is California and about standard.

[01True BlueGT]

I would recommend it being done by a professional. Not all gears are exactly alike. Sometimes shims are required and unless you plan on spending a lot of money for shims, pay to have it done.

[jettle]

Here is another question....

Lets say you are traveling at 70 mph. What RPM would you be at with the diff gears... 410's 430's etc...

[Bowman9]

My 4.10 install cost $600.00 hmmm... I was not happy :(

With the 4.10 in the speedo is off by about 16%.
My speedo read 50mph and "the your speed is" electric sign on the side of the road read 42mph.

And no, I would not recommend doing it yourself.

[jettle]

My 4.10 install cost $600.00 hmmm... I was not happy :(

With the 4.10 in the speedo is off by about 16%.
My speedo read 50mph and "the your speed is" electric sign on the side of the road read 42mph.

And no, I would not recommend doing it yourself.

Bowman9

I realize the seedo will be off until the car is chipped.

What I am accually looking for it the rpm's when traveling at 70mph with corected speedo's.

Thanks for your input :-)

[Smokie]

I done it before on a 1980 Ford Bronco, you need calipers, blue ink to test gear mesh and contact, if you get the backlash wrong you will get sounds you won't like, not enough backlash you will have premature and uneven gear wear. Removing and reinstalling is easy, Getting the backlash to specs...can be a pain.

[merc406]

If you haven't done it before have it done on your new $$ car.
If was a second car or hot rod hobby car, do it yourself to learn.

[jettle]

Merc

It is kinda my second car and I am thinking the way you are. I want to learn what I can. I just dont want to get in there and not be able to do it at all and have to tow it....

I did do the front shocks Everyone told me to stay away from that too but it turned out to be pretty easy.

the $500.00 thing scares me into thinking its harder than I thought it would be though....

[merc406]

Merc

It is kinda my second car and I am thinking the way you are. I want to learn what I can. I just dont want to get in there and not be able to do it at all and have to tow it....

I did do the front shocks Everyone told me to stay away from that too but it turned out to be pretty easy.

the $500.00 thing scares me into thinking its harder than I thought it would be though....

You can do it, if you get stumped along the line you'll have to find a rear end guy in the area to help, most of us mech guys will help out and are good guys, one may even take the time to come over to the house if need be, I've done it before for people. :rasta:

[Go Mifuni]

Bowman9

I realize the seedo will be off until the car is chipped.

What I am accually looking for it the rpm's when traveling at 70mph with corected speedo's.

Thanks for your input :-)
It's about a 300 rpm difference.

[jettle]

Mifuni,

What gear set is that? 410's...430's

[Go Mifuni]

Mifuni,

What gear set is that? 410's...430's
That would be the 4:10's. I'm not sure on the 4:30's.

[jettle]

That would be the 4:10's. I'm not sure on the 4:30's.

Thanks Mifuni!

Anyone out there with other gear sets to compare that to???

[Jinfla]

Difference in RPM's for gear ratios with factory tires assuming a 1 to 1 ratio thru trans:
Tire diameter 28.6102 factory rear's

70 MPH
3.55 2918.39 RPM
4.10 3370.54 RPM
4.30 3534.96 RPM

[jettle]

Difference in RPM's for gear ratios with factory tires assuming a 1 to 1 ratio thru trans:
Tire diameter 28.6102 factory rear's

70 MPH
3.55 2918.39 RPM
4.10 3370.54 RPM
4.30 3534.96 RPM

Perfect! Thanks!

Are the 430's pretty extreme for day to day driving?

[gpfarrell]

I wouldn't assume "1:1 straight through transmission"... that would be 3rd gear. I believe the overdrive is .7, so take those RPMs and multiply them by .7 if your figuring on using all the gears Ford gave you.

That'll be 2 cents!

[CRUZTAKER]

I paid a race shop $460 for the gears AND install. Anything over $350 labor is WRONG in my book.

If you are not a mechanic, don't try this task.

[Jinfla]

I was simply showing the difference in RPM based on different gear ratios in the rear axle alone thus the 1 to 1 assumption for transmission....




I wouldn't assume "1:1 straight through transmission"... that would be 3rd gear. I believe the overdrive is .7, so take those RPMs and multiply them by .7 if your figuring on using all the gears Ford gave you.

That'll be 2 cents!

[TooManyFords]

Perfect! Thanks!

Are the 430's pretty extreme for day to day driving?
I've had 4.30's in mine for about 7000 miles now and really appreciate having them for in-town driving. Makes the car feel like it lost a 1000 lbs. when leaving the line. At 70 mph it is turning about 2400 rpm and I still get about 22 MPG on the highway.

John

[CRUZTAKER]

^^^see...and I turn about 2250 with 4:10's at 70 mph.^^^

[gpfarrell]

I was simply showing the difference in RPM based on different gear ratios in the rear axle alone thus the 1 to 1 assumption for transmission....
Well, you're right it's just arithmetic... but you can't take factors out of the equation.

No biggie, coming from the guys that have done the swap it seems like you get lots of low end w/out much high-speed compromise. Seems like a no-brainer.

Once I find my blue one I think DR's stage 1 w/4.10s will be on the top of my list... although the 4.30 guys have me thinking!

[CRUZTAKER]

If I did it again still running n/a...I'd do 4:30's

[1 BAD 03 MM]

Check this site out for your RPMs with Different Gears. (Tire Ht=28.6):up:

http://www.ring-pinion.com/calculators/calculatorsind.html

if you use the one on the bottom, final on the trans in OD is 0.70

[Smokie]

Is your reason for wanting to change gears to lower ET or to burn large amounts of rubber, or both ?

[jettle]

Is your reason for wanting to change gears to lower ET or to burn large amounts of rubber, or both ?

Both of course... :)

[jettle]

Check this site out for your RPMs with Different Gears. (Tire Ht=28.6):up:

http://www.ring-pinion.com/calculators/calculatorsind.html

if you use the one on the bottom, final on the trans in OD is 0.70

Thanks for the Calc! Its great!

Jeff

[Smokie]

Both of course... :)
Just a thought, I have stock gears, my PCM was reprogrammed and some cosmetic changes. I don't think 4:10's will make dramatic changes to ET or rubber burning, the 4:30's will give you more measureable results, I strongly suggest if you do 4:30's, change the drive shaft or a 100 mph romp could be trouble.:burnout:

[jettle]

Just a thought, I have stock gears, my PCM was reprogrammed and some cosmetic changes. I don't think 4:10's will make dramatic changes to ET or rubber burning, the 4:30's will give you more measureable results, I strongly suggest if you do 4:30's, change the drive shaft or a 100 mph romp could be trouble.:burnout:

Smokie,

I am felling the same way...

[BillyGman]

I have 4.56's and I like them. No, they're not too extreme for the street. I can stil hit 100MPH in a heartbeat, and the car still can hit 120 MPH and it's very rare that I'll want to go that fast on the street. And I have turned the best trap speed of any N/A Marauder on this board at 101MPH.

I did 2 gear changes myself, but if you want to do it yourself, you better do your homework and spend the $100 for the Ford shop manual. Forget about doing a gear change just to save $$ because if saving $$ is your only motive then you will not be thorough enough to do your homework. I was successful w/both of the gear changes I did, but I went to great lengths for several weeks doing ALL my homework.My motive for doing the work myself was knowing that it got done right, and having the satisfaction of knowing that I did myself.

As far as getting the work done, the average price for labor will be $300.

[jettle]

I have 4.56's and I like them. No, they're not too extreme for the street. I can stil hit 100MPH in a heartbeat, and the car still can hit 120 MPH and it's very rare that I'll want to go that fast on the street. And I have turned the best trap speed of any N/A Marauder on this board at 101MPH.

I did 2 gear changes myself, but if you want to do it yourself, you better do your homework and spend the $100 for the Ford shop manual. Forget about doing a gear change just to save $$ because if saving $$ is your only motive then you will not be thorough enough to do your homework. I was successful w/both of the gear changes I did, but I went to great lengths for several weeks doing ALL my homework.My motive for doing the work myself was knowing that it got done right, and having the satisfaction of knowing that I did myself.

As far as getting the work done, the average price for labor will be $300.

Yeah I already have the manual. My reasoning for buying a 150.00 shop book was that I would save money by doing the stuff myself. There is alittle personal satisfaction knowing you did it too. But if its something I can't do that’s cool too...

[BillyGman]

If you decide to do this yourself, then you can always call me at home on the weekend to talk about. 203-734-5582. You should always use Ford racing gears because you will usually be able to use the same shim thickness for the new gears that was used for the original ones on your Marauder if you do. If you use Richmond gears, you'll need different shims, and the gears will make whining noises even if they're installed correctly. Ford gears won't.

You also should have a lift to do this job. I did it the first time w/a lift, and the second time w/out one, and let me tell you, it can be done w/out a lift, but it's a serious workout just to tighten that pinion nut if you're on your back. Even while using a 4 foot iron pipe like I had!!!!

[jgc61sr2002]

This is one task that should be handled by a pro. There is too much room for error. IMO.

[BillyGman]

You're entitled to your opinion ofcourse. The reason that I don't share that opinion w/you is because I performed a couple gear changes myself successfully. And I've put over 6,000 miles on my MM since that last gear change, and it's fine. I will agree though that it's a big job, and if you haven't performed it before, then you have to do your homework and it isn't something to be taken lightly.

You have to use a dial indicator to measure the backlash, and you have to use marking compound on the ring gear to check for the proper pattern. if you don't do that, then you stand a chance of blowing apart the entire rear end especially on the highway. But the job can be accomplished by anyone w/competence, mechanical inclinition, and the patience to pay attention to detail, as well as to directions in the Ford shop manual.

[jettle]

You're entitled to your opinion ofcourse. The reason that I don't share that opinion w/you is because I performed a couple gear changes myself successfully. And I've put over 6,000 miles on my MM since that last gear change, and it's fine. I will agree though that it's a big job, and if you haven't performed it before, then you have to do your homework and it isn't something to be taken lightly.

You have to use a dial indicator to measure the backlash, and you have to use marking compound on the ring gear to check for the proper pattern. if you don't do that, then you stand a chance of blowing apart the entire rear end especially on the highway. But the job can be accomplished by anyone w/competence, mechanical inclinition, and the patience to pay attention to detail, as well as to directions in the Ford shop manual.

Thanks for the reply and the offer to help me with the planning. If I do this I will be a month or so before I get to it. If you dont mind I will give you a call when I get closer to the install.

Thanks!
Jeff

[BillyGman]

Absolutely Jeff. Call me atleast one week before you're about to tackle this because I can be tough to reach sometimes, so you might not get ahold of me right away. You should also write down any questions that you have so that you won't forget to ask me when we talk. Also be prepared to write down some things that I'll tell you so that you remember them when you're underneath your car.

IMO, you can't be over prepared for a job like this if it's the first time that you'll be performing it. Don't expect to get it all done in one day either. It might even take you several days. I knew a guy who would do a gear change in a little over three hours on cars w/Ford 8.8 rears, but this guy worked on Ford 8.8 rears all the time, and was doing gear swaps on the side at his house for Mustang guys for years. So he had the whole thing memorized and down pat.

When you do this job the first couple times, it would be foolish to rush it or to try and stick to any specific time table. You want to take your time and do it right the first time. So before you call me, look over the entire process in your Marauder/Marquis/Crown Vic Ford shop manual about three times over, and write down anything that you don't understand, so that you can ask me about it. I also STRONGLY suggest that you either call Richmond gear, or go to www.summitracing.com to order the Richmond gear installation video, and watch it BEFORE you call me. Even though you'll be using Ford tracing gears and NOT Richmond, that's a pretty good video for you to watch. It doesn't show you everything, but it shows you the main points and is very helpfull, and it only costs like about $5. ;)

[Johnzo6]

I have 4:10 gears with a corrected speedo and I tach 2,250 at 70mph.
John...


Bowman9

I realize the seedo will be off until the car is chipped.

What I am accually looking for it the rpm's when traveling at 70mph with corected speedo's.

Thanks for your input :-)