cobra cam install ??

[montyd]

I'm installing a set of 97 cobra cams in my mm. I put exhaust cam in a rotated in just fine went to do the intake, got it in, rotate it and it seems to be hitting valves are hitting the second piston back from the front.(this is drivers side head. Motor is at tdc). Is that normal? Just trying to check myself thanks guys!

[RacerX]

You need to install the cams in the right places, Cam gears, crank gears and chains all need to be spot on. Something is off. At least you're hand spinning to see if there's any gotchas. Each cam has a identifying number on it.

This has a list of cam identifying numbers and their placement in the heads (A big thanks to Todd Warren):

[montyd]

I must have them backwards because the passenger side hits as well I'll scope the chart out too. Thank you! You wouldn't by chance know how many bolts hold our oil pump on do you? I only took three out but Mitchell shows 4 and I have an extra hole in the pump. The old pump doesn't have any markings in the extra hole like there was a bolt there which is why I'm confused

[03mmmonroe]

I must have them backwards because the passenger side hits as well I'll scope the chart out too. Thank you! You wouldn't by chance know how many bolts hold our oil pump on do you? I only took three out but Mitchell shows 4 and I have an extra hole in the pump. The old pump doesn't have any markings in the extra hole like there was a bolt there which is why I'm confused

You will have four bolts if i remember the bolt missing is for your timming chain guide bracket. All the holes will have bolts.

[RacerX]

^Yup! Here's a mod motor assembly guide if you need it. Mach 1/Marauder, same thing.

[montyd]

I remember it now. Its only been 4 months since I took it all apart so I'm having a hard time remembering some things. You guys are the best! Thanks!

[na svt]

I'm installing a set of 97 cobra cams in my mm. I put exhaust cam in a rotated in just fine went to do the intake, got it in, rotate it and it seems to be hitting valves are hitting the second piston back from the front.(this is drivers side head. Motor is at tdc). Is that normal? Just trying to check myself thanks guys!

Are you trying to rotate the cams while keeping the cams stationary? If so, you can't do that.

[montyd]

Are you trying to rotate the cams while keeping the cams stationary? If so, you can't do that.

If you mean while keeping the bottom end stationary then yes. I don't have any of the timing components on and am rotating the cams individually. I was thinking the hit because the 2 cylinders are about to start the intake stroke....

[na svt]

If you mean while keeping the bottom end stationary then yes. I don't have any of the timing components on and am rotating the cams individually. I was thinking the hit because the 2 cylinders are about to start the intake stroke....

The crank and cams must be connected with the chains before turning either one. If you're just trying to turn the cams, the valves will hit on cylinders 1 and 6.

[montyd]

Will they only hit on the intake? The exhaust cleared on both sides. I'm still going to double check the cams when I get home for correct placement on the motor tho.

[na svt]

Will they only hit on the intake? The exhaust cleared on both sides. I'm still going to double check the cams when I get home for correct placement on the motor tho.

Why are you turning them? There's no need do that, just ensure they are in the right positions, install the chains and then turn the engine over to check for PTV contact.

Also, you are going to lose a lotta tq if installing the cams per the factory settings. This will probably result in the car being slower in the quarter mile. To prevent this from happening the intake cams should be advanced a minumum of 9 degrees.

[montyd]

How do I advance the cams? I was mainly just trying to check them to make sure I don't have any issues. I've had to take motors back apart in the past. Just trying to avoid that is all

[na svt]

How do I advance the cams? I was mainly just trying to check them to make sure I don't have any issues. I've had to take motors back apart in the past. Just trying to avoid that is all

Turning the cams with thra crank in a fixed postion will tell you nothing and will always result in PTV.

The TFS crank gears will allow you to advance both the intake and exhaust cams 8 degrees.

[montyd]

Do I want to do the exhaust cam too? Or only the intake?

[na svt]

The TFS gears will advance both cams and that is okay. You could also use the TFS gears to advance both cams 4 degrees and then use the Cloyes intake gears to advance the intake cams another 4 degrees.

[montyd]

I can swing the 50$ for the TFS gears but not the 200 for the cloyes. I have a steeda timing adjuster set but I don't think that will get me anywhere.

[na svt]

I can swing the 50$ for the TFS gears but not the 200 for the cloyes. I have a steeda timing adjuster set but I don't think that will get me anywhere.

The TFS gears and the $250 cloyes gears do the same thing. You want these gears:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-P9139/ 2ea
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-S790HP9/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLO-S790HP9/) 2ea
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-51800505/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-51800505/) 1 ea

[montyd]

I can swing the 50 for TFS gears but not the 200 for the cloyes. I'm about tapped on the project. I PM's Marty'o since he will be sending me a tune for the car to see what he suggested. Pending what he says I'll probably run the TFS gears and be done

[montyd]

Sorry the first post didn't load on my phone. Didn't mean to double post

[montyd]

I can probably swing that. My cobra cams came with the keys in them so I have those but for 8$ I might as well get new ones. I really appreciate the input

[montyd]

Got them ordered, thanks again NA SVT, didnt mean to second guess what you were saying by any means. im still kinda new around here. just read a post on the cams you did and found it very helpfull. thanks again!

[na svt]

Got them ordered, thanks again NA SVT, didnt mean to second guess what you were saying by any means. im still kinda new around here. just read a post on the cams you did and found it very helpfull. thanks again!
You're very welcome.

[montyd]

OK so I'm setting my initial cam timing and I'd like to double check myself. I attached pictures I hope its right. I know the cams are on the correct side. I have 2 problems. First one is my big gear on the drivers side intake can hits the head before it goes on all all the way did I miss a spacer? My other problem is that on the passenger side intake can there is a ridge that causes the small gear not to go on a the way with out a little extra help. Thoughts?? Thanks again guys

[na svt]

take some pics from the top that show the secondary chains as they go across the tensioner

[montyd]

Here are pictures from the top. The passenger side gears will go on and be straight if I put the bolt in and slowly press the gear on.

[montyd]

I can't seem to get the pictures to upload. I'll try again in the morning

[montyd]

There I got them

[Vortech347]

When you finish post a video of the idle. I wonder if its any different. I noticed our 01' loped a lot more before I put the 03 swap in it.

[montyd]

I'll definitely put up a video.

[RacerX]

Remeber, the small cam gears are reversed (flipped) on one head compared to the other. U doin it wrong... You really need to make sure you have things advanced and not tarded. When I installed the gears on the exhaust cams, you have to go the opposite direction with the keyways to advance vs. the intake cam gears. Did you get four cam gears as well as the crank gears?

[na svt]

When you finish post a video of the idle. I wonder if its any different. I noticed our 01' loped a lot more before I put the 03 swap in it.
None of the stock cams have any lope. I setup my cobra intake cams with a very tight LSA and the engine idles as smooth as it did with the stock cams.

[na svt]

Are you using the stock or Cloyes gears? If using the stock gears did you file the gear's key so that the gear slides all the way onto the cam?

The secondary chains are tracking along the tensioner okay so it looks like the secondary gears are installed correctly.

[na svt]

There I got them
The reason the primary gear is hitting the head is because you have it on the wrong camshaft, it should be on the exhaust cam.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7110/wrongcam.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/wrongcam.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[ctrlraven]

I'm interested in the idle as well, hope it will give it some sort of lobe at idle.

[na svt]

I'm interested in the idle as well, hope it will give it some sort of lobe at idle.
A choppy idle is caused by a significant amount of overlap. The stock cams, even at tight LSAs do not provide enough overlap to achieve this.

My cams are at 107/112 and have -19 deg overlap.

[montyd]

I'll be using the clothes and TFS gears that you recommended. I just wanted to get it all timed right and then install the new stuff just for my own piece of mind

[montyd]

Both primary gears go on the exhaust cams? Or just drivers side? Its been s while since I tore it down

[na svt]

send me an email at nasvt@yahoo and I'll send you some instructions

[montyd]

Email sent

[ctrlraven]

A choppy idle is caused by a significant amount of overlap. The stock cams, even at tight LSAs do not provide enough overlap to achieve this.

My cams are at 107/112 and have -19 deg overlap.

So the cobra intake cams won't alter the exhaust note any?

[na svt]

So the cobra intake cams won't alter the exhaust note any?

Idle will remain unchanged. A marauder with cobra cams will idle like a cobra.

[Marauderjack]

Just curious......what's the reason for going to Cobra cams in the first place??:confused:

[na svt]

Just curious......what's the reason for going to Cobra cams in the first place??:confused:

More power. The early cobra cams have more 20 deg more duration and when installed at the optimum LCs will increase both hp and tq.

[Marauderjack]

I think I read somewhere that the gains were fairly small and four "new" cams are right pricey??:cool:

How much of an increase would you think you might get??:confused:

[na svt]

I think I read somewhere that the gains were fairly small and four "new" cams are right pricey??:cool:

How much of an increase would you think you might get??:confused:

20hp when installed per the factory gears. Advancing them will lower that a little but will increase tq a good amount.

[Marauderjack]

Can ya even feel 20 HP gains and what do 4 cams cost??:cool:

[RacerX]

Can ya even feel 20 HP gains and what do 4 cams cost??:cool:
NA, yes. You only need the intake cams though, the exhaust are the same as what is in our cars. I got my set of 96/98 cams for $200 shipped 2 years ago. They are getting rare now though...

[montyd]

i got mine for 200 shipped as well from a member here a few months ago and they came in crane boxes, which works out great because now all the guys i hang out with thnk im really up to something haha:banana2:

[na svt]

20hp in the right spot in the rpm range can be felt. However, if its all up top, 6000-6500, it will be useless.

A set of new cams will run $1150-$1300 and add up to 40rwhp with good gains in tq. There are only a couple good off the shelf grinds available for a marauder though.

I recommend no more than 218 deg duration with lobe centers if 106/110 for heavy, automatic transmission cars like marauders.

[montyd]

Na svt, I can't thank you enough for all the info you sent me yesterday. It really cleared up all my concerns about the cloyes gears. I just got it all together and am about to torque the can bolts. I advance the crank gears 4° and the intake cams 4°. Your a life saver!

[Dave1kRR]

I just want to know how it'll run at all with the main gears on the wrong cams, especially since the valve covers will not fit on?

Supposed to be like this:

[na svt]

Na svt, I can't thank you enough for all the info you sent me yesterday. It really cleared up all my concerns about the cloyes gears. I just got it all together and am about to torque the can bolts. I advance the crank gears 4° and the intake cams 4°. Your a life saver!

Glad I could help.

[RacerX]

Brain fart! N/M!

[Dave1kRR]

??? You have something wrong! Stop, post a pic, let Todd and us help you get it right.

I'm assuming you're agreeing with me that he has it wrong?

[RacerX]

Oops! I thought he said that! :D
In the originals pics, yes, major carnage. Todd has since helped him and all sounds well.

[Dave1kRR]

Oops! I thought he said that! :D
In the originals pics, yes, major carnage. Todd has since helped him and all sounds well.

:) Cool, just wanted to make sure! I got a knot in my stomach when I saw the pics he posted, and I didn't want to see the result!!

[montyd]

Ya that's why I posted the pics ha ha couldn't remember where they went but I knew something was royally wrong! Putting cam covers on now

[lji372]

Just let me say you guys are awesome!!
I love this bar......