Head/cams/intake swap vs Supercharger

[sflrainmaker01]

Did a search on this, but didn't seem to come up with much. Has anyone done only some old school work to their motors like ported heads, different cams and maybe a ported or other type of intake vs supercharger?

I'm going to go on a limb and figure that there is not alot of this going on because of the huge amount of torque required to move one of these cars so the SC is a better choice. But still, just wondering...

[ctrlraven]

Census here is to go with the supercharger like an Eaton swap. Will cost less than beefing up the motor.

I myself am building a bored 5.1 forged motor and staying NA instead of going with an SC only because my motor has close to 200k miles on it. No point of doing an SC when something break and then be SOL.

[sflrainmaker01]

Census here is to go with the supercharger like an Eaton swap. Will cost less than beefing up the motor.

I myself am building a bored 5.1 forged motor and staying NA instead of going with an SC only because my motor has close to 200k miles on it. No point of doing an SC when something break and then be SOL.

What kind of heads/cam/intake are you going to use?

[lji372]

Census here is to go with the supercharger like an Eaton swap. Will cost less than beefing up the motor.

I myself am building a bored 5.1 forged motor and staying NA instead of going with an SC only because my motor has close to 200k miles on it. No point of doing an SC when something break and then be SOL.

sounds like a very smart plan:bows:

[Vortech347]

Blower will yield more HP per dollar for sure. Mod motor work isn't cheap.

[SC Cheesehead]

Blower will yield more HP per dollar for sure. Mod motor work isn't cheap.

+1

Eaton swap will cost you roughly $4,000 - $4,500, will yield 420 - 430 rwhp.

A built N/A mod motor (cammed big block stoker) might net you 400 HP on the high end, but it'll cost you $10k plus to get there.

[Joe Walsh]

If your stock 4.6 V8 is healthy.....no question....go with the S/C set-up.
Ask me how I know.....:rolleyes:

[ctrlraven]

What kind of heads/cam/intake are you going to use?
04 Cobra heads freshened/cleaned up with new seals, springs, cam gears, 98 cobra intake cam degreed, valves clearanceed, MM lower intake ported, and 39 lb injectors. Have a FRPP Boss big bore block which will be bored out to 5.1 and going to have close to a 11.0 compression ratio with forged crank, rods and pistons.

[sflrainmaker01]

04 Cobra heads freshened/cleaned up with new seals, springs, cam gears, 98 cobra intake cam degreed, valves clearanceed, MM lower intake ported, and 39 lb injectors. Have a FRPP Boss big bore block which will be bored out to 5.1 and going to have close to a 11.0 compression ratio with forged crank, rods and pistons.

That sounds like a sweet combo! :drool:

I don't hear about too many people porting the intake. I know on my 5.0 Foxbody, porting that lower intake made a HUGE difference.

[ctrlraven]

That sounds like a sweet combo! :drool:

I don't hear about too many people porting the intake. I know on my 5.0 Foxbody, porting that lower intake made a HUGE difference.
There is some power to gain from the intake being ported but it's more or less a mod to make other mods benefit more. Such as the intake spacer, it doesn't do much on a stock motor but if you add an intake, larger TB (which I going with a bbk twin 62mm unit) and headers it makes the mod a lot more effective and efficient.

[RacerX]

I ran ported heads, 98 Cobra cams and both a NAZ PSRI and my own ported long runner. Go sc, you'll end up there anyway if you're even asking... ;)

[MOTOWN]

There is some power to gain from the intake being ported but it's more or less a mod to make other mods benefit more. Such as the intake spacer, it doesn't do much on a stock motor but if you add an intake, larger TB (which I going with a bbk twin 62mm unit) and headers it makes the mod a lot more effective and efficient.

I would stay away from the BBK throttle bodys, Injected Engineering has a ton of them off of customers cars that leaked thru the butterfly shaft and caused all kinds of idle problems on the dyno!

I would go Accufab, or Draggon

[Vortech347]

I would stay away from the BBK throttle bodys, Injected Engineering has a ton of them off of customers cars that leaked thru the butterfly shaft and caused all kinds of idle problems on the dyno!

I would go Accufab, or Draggon

Accufab FTW! Pricey but worth it. Got one on our 03' Cobra.

[MrBluGruv]

The Ford DOHC motor from this era can breathe pretty OK from the factory, at least enough so that porting bits won't get you stupendous goals due to the cam simply not being hot enough. I believe that if you can spec it right, a cam swap would be a huge benefit, but when you are talking about four camshafts and all that supporting valvetrain, that's a lot of money.

Also, to really make this car scoot, you're going to want to increase your torque across the board, but particularly in the lower RPM range, and without adding cubes, that's gonna be a lot harder to do with internal engine mods than if you just toss a roots blower on it. The 4.6 is just too darn tiny to make a car this big really move, in any of the N/A configurations it was built.

[RacerX]

I would stay away from the BBK throttle bodys, Injected Engineering has a ton of them off of customers cars that leaked thru the butterfly shaft and caused all kinds of idle problems on the dyno!

I would go Accufab, or Draggon
Maybe the single blades, not the twin bores. I've had a twin 65mm BBK (Thank you Glassman!) for the entire time I've had my car. Not a prob throughout any of my upgrades.

[sflrainmaker01]

The Ford DOHC motor from this era can breathe pretty OK from the factory, at least enough so that porting bits won't get you stupendous goals due to the cam simply not being hot enough. I believe that if you can spec it right, a cam swap would be a huge benefit, but when you are talking about four camshafts and all that supporting valvetrain, that's a lot of money.

Also, to really make this car scoot, you're going to want to increase your torque across the board, but particularly in the lower RPM range, and without adding cubes, that's gonna be a lot harder to do with internal engine mods than if you just toss a roots blower on it. The 4.6 is just too darn tiny to make a car this big really move, in any of the N/A configurations it was built.

That is kinda what I was thinking. BUT, I was cruzing thru the Powerhead's website and seeing what they have to offer for the 4V DOHC motor and it started to make me think....:hmmm:

I put together a really sweet combo for my 86 vert using their heads, ported intake and other goodies. Man, I love that combo! I do realize that these are two COMPLETELY different animals though.

[MrBluGruv]

That is kinda what I was thinking. BUT, I was cruzing thru the Powerhead's website and seeing what they have to offer for the 4V DOHC motor and it started to make me think....:hmmm:

I put together a really sweet combo for my 86 vert using their heads, ported intake and other goodies. Man, I love that combo! I do realize that these are two COMPLETELY different animals though.

If funds are unlimited, you can definitely make even a 4.6 into a beast. CAM SELECTION WILL BE KEY though. Generally speaking, the hotter you go with a cam, the more it requires higher RPM to work well. If you get someone that knows how to spec cams to do it, you can get a set specced that will actually make great power through the usable power band of this car. I'm afraid that an off-the-shelf cam set wouldn't be that great for a Marauder, since most of the cams were probably designed to work best with a Mustang, which is much lighter. Usually, at least in LS land, the downfall to a hotter cam is dramatically reduced valve spring life.

The nice thing about the DOHC motors though is that they were designed above and beyond the SOHC motors to be able to breathe better much higher in the RPM range, so if you stick to 4.6 liters of displacement, find a way to put down solid, consistent power from stall all the way up to 6K RPM and you should be sailing right along. ;)

[sflrainmaker01]

If funds are unlimited, you can definitely make even a 4.6 into a beast. CAM SELECTION WILL BE KEY though. Generally speaking, the hotter you go with a cam, the more it requires higher RPM to work well. If you get someone that knows how to spec cams to do it, you can get a set specced that will actually make great power through the usable power band of this car. I'm afraid that an off-the-shelf cam set wouldn't be that great for a Marauder, since most of the cams were probably designed to work best with a Mustang, which is much lighter. Usually, at least in LS land, the downfall to a hotter cam is dramatically reduced valve spring life.

The nice thing about the DOHC motors though is that they were designed above and beyond the SOHC motors to be able to breathe better much higher in the RPM range, so if you stick to 4.6 liters of displacement, find a way to put down solid, consistent power from stall all the way up to 6K RPM and you should be sailing right along. ;)

Right on. I alway hated the prospect of giving up torque for high RPM horsepower. So, the whole combination has to work together for the best results. It seems, from what responses I have gotten so far, that the supercharger is definately the way to go. And, maybe while you are at it, port the lower intake and supercharger! :burnout:

[MrBluGruv]

It seems, from what responses I have gotten so far, that the supercharger is definately the way to go. And, maybe while you are at it, port the lower intake and supercharger! :burnout:

Now you're talkin' :coolman:

[ctrlraven]

Maybe the single blades, not the twin bores. I've had a twin 65mm BBK (Thank you Glassman!) for the entire time I've had my car. Not a prob throughout any of my upgrades.
You still have the template for opening up the upper intake ports for the twin 62mm TB?

[guspech750]

As I like the thought of a NA Marauder. The cost to just do an Eaton swap with nothing special has given me 400rwhp and 410rwtq through the stock exhaust only cost me about $4,500 in parts and a dyno tune.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/16/nevarare.jpg


Sent from my iPhone 4S

DTR + 4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

[ctrlraven]

As I like the thought of a NA Marauder. The cost to just do an Eaton swap with nothing special has given me 400rwhp and 410rwtq through the stock exhaust only cost me about $4,500 in parts and a dyno tune.

This would of been my route if my motor had a whole lot less miles. I figured if I am going to rebuild I would do it right from the start and go bigger & better than stock. If in the future and the funds are right I could do an Eaton swap and be really set as my starting engine platform will be higher than compared to a stock motor.

[guspech750]

Ahhh yes. You are right. I did the swap at about 60,000+ miles two years ago. Currently about 75,000 miles now.


Sent from my iPhone 4S

DTR + 4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

[sflrainmaker01]

As I like the thought of a NA Marauder. The cost to just do an Eaton swap with nothing special has given me 400rwhp and 410rwtq through the stock exhaust only cost me about $4,500 in parts and a dyno tune.


Sent from my iPhone 4S

DTR + 4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

That is freakin awesome! PLUS, to me, there not much better than staring at a roots blower ontop of a big v8, except maybe when you punch the accelerator! :burn: !!! Although, I haven't had that pleasure YET! It is on the bucket list though!:burnout:

[sflrainmaker01]

This would of been my route if my motor had a whole lot less miles. I figured if I am going to rebuild I would do it right from the start and go bigger & better than stock. If in the future and the funds are right I could do an Eaton swap and be really set as my starting engine platform will be higher than compared to a stock motor.

Especially if it looks stock! That is cool too! Ultimate sleeper!

[SC Cheesehead]

Right on. I alway hated the prospect of giving up torque for high RPM horsepower. So, the whole combination has to work together for the best results. It seems, from what responses I have gotten so far, that the supercharger is definately the way to go. And, maybe while you are at it, port the lower intake and supercharger! :burnout:

Not too much to port there...
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/SlowSVT/PortedCobraintake6.jpg

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcN0QEslJ0M FyOJc81QQcSXI7E6TWeWzqO02HjdFQ 5wBe6TgfehcPx-DQuWA

[RacerX]

You still have the template for opening up the upper intake ports for the twin 62mm TB?
Actually, I took the BBK, bolted it to the upper, opened the throttle blades up, took a long steel pick and marked out the area to be cut. Easy! ;)

Not too much to port there...
I just gasket matched my lower Eaton plenum since my heads are port matched.

[ctrlraven]

Especially if it looks stock! That is cool too! Ultimate sleeper!
As much as I would love to have my motor all dressed up with paint and powder coating I think I may just not bother with it and throw that money into more parts of trans rebuild fund then the motor will really look stock, just wish it sounded stock. :lol:

[sflrainmaker01]

As much as I would love to have my motor all dressed up with paint and powder coating I think I may just not bother with it and throw that money into more parts of trans rebuild fund then the motor will really look stock, just wish it sounded stock. :lol:

I totally agree. The bling is sweet, but the budget is tight. Put the $$ where it counts!
I think you told me about those MagnaFlow cats #59956 . Damn, that car is loud now! I am sure your new build even even be LOUDER!

An interesting side note, speaking of loud... My 86 GT had a stock motor with 2.5" Flowmasters and 2.5" Hpipe with hiflow cats and 2.5" tailpipes. It sounded respectable and not crazy. However, after my build (see sig) that car is LOUD! The only thing I changed on the exhaust system itself is I replaced the stock "headers" with 1 5/8" BBK un-equal length ceramic coated shorties. No reason they would make it louder. BUT, the cam, big porting job and larger valves on the intake and exhaust and maybe even the ported intake made for a HUGE difference in sound, not to mention performance (of course). I did not expect the car to get that much louder!:P

[MrBluGruv]

I totally agree. The bling is sweet, but the budget is tight. Put the $$ where it counts!
I think you told me about those MagnaFlow cats #59956 . Damn, that car is loud now! I am sure your new build even even be LOUDER!

An interesting side note, speaking of loud... My 86 GT had a stock motor with 2.5" Flowmasters and 2.5" Hpipe with hiflow cats and 2.5" tailpipes. It sounded respectable and not crazy. However, after my build (see sig) that car is LOUD! The only thing I changed on the exhaust system itself is I replaced the stock "headers" with 1 5/8" BBK un-equal length ceramic coated shorties. No reason they would make it louder. BUT, the cam, big porting job and larger valves on the intake and exhaust and maybe even the ported intake made for a HUGE difference in sound, not to mention performance (of course). I did not expect the car to get that much louder!:P

A lot of people underestimate the importance of the cam; it isn't just a power bump or a way to make the engine idle choppy, it's essentially the heart of the engine. It's just a bonus that a hotter cam can make the engine idle wicked cool and make it louder than hell. ;)

Also, got any vids of said Fox GT? :coolman:

[Spectragod]

As I like the thought of a NA Marauder. The cost to just do an Eaton swap with nothing special has given me 400rwhp and 410rwtq through the stock exhaust only cost me about $4,500 in parts and a dyno tune.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/16/nevarare.jpg


Sent from my iPhone 4S

DTR + 4.10's + Eaton swap = Wreeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

That's about 3k more than I told my wife I spent on mine............:D

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h138/rfrf5500/DTR%20%20shots/IMG_0371-2_zpsc60f00f1.jpg

[ctrlraven]

I totally agree. The bling is sweet, but the budget is tight. Put the $$ where it counts!
I think you told me about those MagnaFlow cats #59956 . Damn, that car is loud now! I am sure your new build even even be LOUDER!

I've been doing all my mods on a budget, got into mid 13's cheaper than anyone else while being NA. :lol:

Yeah those cats flow extremely well and my exhaust is already loud, it will be annoying loud with a new motor and I'll have to get headers to let it breathe properly as stock logs aren't going to cut it.

[justbob]

My vote? Do it all. :)


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

[Joe Walsh]

My vote? Do it all. :)


I agree....and that was my thought wayyyyy back when I built my 5.0 big bore engine.*
Then life jumped up and bit me in the azz and left me with '0' modding dollars for a S/C set-up.
Now Trilogy and the twin screw option are long gone..... like my forced induction aspirations!.....:(

*(Which is has now pulled up lame on cylinders #1 & #2....:mad:)

[Vortech347]

Posi port tried doing lower intakes and saw no gains.

[na svt]

Adding cams to a stock longblock with long tubes will increase power by 30-40 at the wheels and also increase tq where the Marauder needs it.

Including ported heads with the cams may add an additional 5rw, defintely not a good bang for the buck mod.

Custom cams spec'd for a marauder will cost about $1300 and when using stock valve springs the cost can be kept in check.

Sure a PD blower will add more power but the cost is substantially more.

[na svt]

PLUS, to me, there not much better than staring at a roots blower ontop of a big v8

It's too bad the 281 inch 4v isn't a big v-8 on the inside where it counts

[sflrainmaker01]

It's too bad the 281 inch 4v isn't a big v-8 on the inside where it counts


Yeah, it kinda looks like a Big Block stuffed in there! :D Kinda reminds me of my old 1970 Torino GT that came with a ram air 429 CJ. That really filled up the engine compartment too!:D:burn:

[ctrlraven]

It's too bad the 281 inch 4v isn't a big v-8 on the inside where it counts
I love when someone has no clue about the car and says.... is that a 351? :lol:

[Shaijack]

Darren when can I come and get my car?

[sflrainmaker01]

Adding cams to a stock longblock with long tubes will increase power by 30-40 at the wheels and also increase tq where the Marauder needs it.

Including ported heads with the cams may add an additional 5rw, defintely not a good bang for the buck mod.

Custom cams spec'd for a marauder will cost about $1300 and when using stock valve springs the cost can be kept in check.

Sure a PD blower will add more power but the cost is substantially more.

Are the 97-98 Cobra Cams that much different? Why wouldn't you use a newer version?

[na svt]

Are the 97-98 Cobra Cams that much different? Why wouldn't you use a newer version?
Newer what, cams? There are no newer stock cams and the 96-98 cobra intake cams have more duration than all other 4.6 cams. They will add about 20hp but that's when they are just dropped in per the factory settings. Installing them like that will make a marauder slower in the quarter mile because of the lower midrange hp and tq. The 96-98 cams must be advanced at least 8 degrees before a Marauder will benefit from them.

[SC Cheesehead]

Newer what, cams? There are no newer stock cams and the 96-98 cobra intake cams have more duration than all other 4.6 cams. They will add about 20hp but that's when they are just dropped in per the factory settings. Installing them like that will make a marauder slower in the quarter mile because of the lower midrange hp and tq. The 96-98 cams must be advanced at least 8 degrees before a Marauder will benefit from them.


Yup.

I think that was the issue that 03mmmonroe had with his cam swaps.

[sflrainmaker01]

Newer what, cams? There are no newer stock cams and the 96-98 cobra intake cams have more duration than all other 4.6 cams. They will add about 20hp but that's when they are just dropped in per the factory settings. Installing them like that will make a marauder slower in the quarter mile because of the lower midrange hp and tq. The 96-98 cams must be advanced at least 8 degrees before a Marauder will benefit from them.

Wow. I get it. Can't afford to loose any low or midrange in these big cars!

[Spectragod]

Darren when can I come and get my car?

Anytime, just give me a heads up so I can get it cleaned and filled with fuel.:D

[SC Cheesehead]

As I like the thought of a NA Marauder. The cost to just do an Eaton swap with nothing special has given me 400rwhp and 410rwtq through the stock exhaust only cost me about $4,500 in parts and a dyno tune.



That's about 3k more than I told my wife I spent on mine............:D



Werd... :o-------------> ;) ------------------> :D