Engine noise at start up. VIDEO

[cesar]

2004 Marauder. Mobil 1 5-20 extended performance & Fram oil filter. This noise can be heard only at start ups but does not do it all the time. Sometimes last 3 seconds but sometimes last 30 seconds. Sounds like a marble or tapping noise. My friend said it could be timing chain guides. We took off belt but noise can still be heard. I use Shell Supreme gas. Any ideas?

VIDEO of noise.


http://youtu.be/HRzo6dNsrGc

[cesar]

Sometimes it starts perfect no noise whatsoever.

[RF Overlord]

Get rid of the bottom-of-the-barrel FRAM filter. Use the factory-recommended Motorcraft FL820S and enjoy your quiet start-up.

[2,4shofast]

You will find that many of us have the same problem, it has been linked to several different culprits. Do a search I’m sure you will have no problems finding them. The belt tensioner sometimes makes contact with the timing cover, others it is the a/c bearing etc. You should be able to narrow it down easily just check the threads. But don’t concern yourself too much :) it wont affect drivability.

[jimbok1951]

Use the factory-recommended Motorcraft FL820S

As stated, I had the same issue until I switched. No noise since. Has a check valve and keeps oil on the top end.

[cesar]

Ok will do. Thanks!!!

[JOEMERC]

Fram does not have the anti-drain back valve ,is probably why the noise on start up .Switch back to the Motorcraft .Fram filters are junk ,my .02.

[RF Overlord]

Fram does not have the anti-drain back valve Yes, it does. The problem is that FRAM uses nitrile rubber instead of silicone, as Ford specs, and the ADBV can get stiff. They also have cardboard end caps instead of metal, so the ADBV doesn't seal as well.

[69marquis conv]

That does not sound like the noise heard on these engines from using a filter without an anti-drain back valve.

[Mr. Man]

That does not sound like the noise heard on these engines from using a filter without an anti-drain back valve.
I was thinking the same thing. The oil filter issue is more of a rattle can sound. Our SB has the rattle can and it goes away after 5-10 seconds, but the Motorcraft filter hasn't really helped eliminate it even just overnight.

Your sound sounds more like a click that indicates wear or something rubbing something it's not supposed to. I think some further sleuthing is need on your part to try and narrow down the possibilities.

[RF Overlord]

Now that I've listened to the video on a computer with actual speakers :rolleyes: , I agree with 69marquis and Mr. Man. Run it without the belt again and use a mechanic's stethoscope to try to localise the sound.

You still want to lose the FRAM filter, though.

[svtguy]

Pretty amazing. That could be my car in the video. Does the exact same thing you describe. The few people that have heard it each have a different theory. Yet we all believe that it is coming from under the passenger side cam cover.

The dealer claims my timing chain is slapping around. A mechanic friend of mine thinks one of the hydraulic lifters is failing. And yet another theory from a shop I took it to is that the piston is slapping.

For me, the ticking has gotten worse over time and is a bit louder than yours sounds now. Yet it goes away after a while too. I'm still trying to figure out what to do about it. In any case it sounds like some engine tear down might be necessary, however it has also been suggested that I do nothing since engine still runs fine. And that this would be just one of those annoying but not serious characteristics of the car that I have to live with until something breaks.

If you or anyone else can get this figured out, I sure as heck would love to hear about it.

EDIT: oh yeah, I did also change out the belt tensioner to see if that was it but nah.

[Ms. Denmark]

Pretty amazing. That could be my car in the video. Does the exact same thing you describe. The few people that have heard it each have a different theory. Yet we all believe that it is coming from under the passenger side cam cover.

The dealer claims my timing chain is slapping around. A mechanic friend of mine thinks one of the hydraulic lifters is failing. And yet another theory from a shop I took it to is that the piston is slapping.

For me, the ticking has gotten worse over time and is a bit louder than yours sounds now. Yet it goes away after a while too. I'm still trying to figure out what to do about it. In any case it sounds like some engine tear down might be necessary, however it has also been suggested that I do nothing since engine still runs fine. And that this would be just one of those annoying but not serious characteristics of the car that I have to live with until something breaks.

If you or anyone else can get this figured out, I sure as heck would love to hear about it.

EDIT: oh yeah, I did also change out the belt tensioner to see if that was it but nah.If the sound goes away after the car runs a bit whatever is causing it may be going away because metal is expanding with engine heat. Just a thought. :)

[cesar]

:shake:

Well I changed the water pump hoping it was going to fix it but no change!!!!

Good thing I had bought a water pump for my old 2004 Towncar & swapped it under warranty(free) just had to buy new antifreeze & did labor myself since they use same water pumps. Oh we'll I think noise is internal engine cus the noise still happens without belt on.

:help:

[RF Overlord]

Well I changed the water pump hoping it was going to fix it but no change!!!!

I think noise is internal engine cus the noise still happens without belt on.

:help:If the noise happens without the belt, why would you think it was the water pump???

[Spectragod]

I think I would be looking under a cam cover or front cover for the noise, it would be a good opportunity to powder coat things too.

[cesar]

Had some free time 15 minutes of labor & new coolant. Figure it was no big deal to give it a try. It was original pump at 102xxx miles. When I took it off it did make a little noise & compare it to the new one it also spinned more then the new one. New one seem to be a little harder to spin. Oh we'll good excuse to drink some cold ones.:beer:

[Blackened300a]

Sounds a collapsed tensioner and the chain is slapping. Or a piece of the plastic chain slide broke off.

[Bruce Wayne]

just ignore it until it blows up, like I did. Its the bottom end bearings

[svtguy]

If this was a spun bearing, wouldn't you see metal in the oil, throw codes, get check engine light, lose oil pressure, run poorly?

I could see this eventually leading to a spun bearing but as of now, the timing chain tensioner seems like it could be the source. I don't know just speculation. I would hate to go in and replace tensioner, put it all back together and continue hearing the tick. That would really "tick" me off big time.

[Vortech347]

I've noticed if mine sits for a week or two it rattles a hair when I start it. I think it's the hydraulic tensioners bleeding down.

[tbone]

All the mainstream oil filters have anti-drainback valves. That noise is definitely not oil filter related.

[bill64]

just ignore it until it blows up, like I did. Its the bottom end bearings
It's not the bottom end bearings, not even close to a bearing rap. sounds more like either top or the front of the engine.

[babbage]

If this was a spun bearing, wouldn't you see metal in the oil, throw codes, get check engine light, lose oil pressure, run poorly?

I could see this eventually leading to a spun bearing but as of now, the timing chain tensioner seems like it could be the source. I don't know just speculation. I would hate to go in and replace tensioner, put it all back together and continue hearing the tick. That would really "tick" me off big time.

After 100K tensioners and guides should be replaced IMHO, as soon as you remove the front cover - one glance at the chain guides and tensioners will tell you if they need it, if all of the plastic is gone, etc it'd be easy to see.

I think the noise from the video is chain slap from worn guides and tensioners or perhaps a dropped valve seat #8 cylinder.

[svtguy]

Sounds a collapsed tensioner and the chain is slapping. Or a piece of the plastic chain slide broke off.

I've read that when replacing the arm tensioner, you can choose the stock part, a plastic type unit vs a different steel body type that is considered by some to be an upgrade.

I will be removing the front cover and replacing the tensioners and chain guides as needed. Does anybody know which tensioner is best, plastic or steel. Anyone know the part# for steel type.

Thanks!

[cesar]

I just ordered a starter. They adviced me that sometimes magnet comes loose on the Inside or it might not be retracting all the way back hitting flywheel making the noise.

[RF Overlord]

So you've determined that the sound is coming from the passenger side rear of the motor?

[cesar]

That's what it seems like. Very hard to tell.

[RF Overlord]

If the problem is with the starter, it should be very easy to tell, as the sound will be coming from the passenger side rear of the motor, down low.

[cesar]

I just checked alternator by taking off the belt. I spun the clutch pulley & it spins both ways with a little bit of noise. I stuck a screw driver to the inside blades of alternator to spin the clutch pulley & its seized up. It doesn't move either way.

Then I drove to O'reileys auto parts to check a new one they had in stock. I stuck a screwdriver to hold the inside blades of the alternator & the pulley spins one way & locks the other way which is the proper way it's sopose to be doing.

I'm going to change it this weekend. I'm guessing this is where my tapping ticking noise is coming from. Bearings in the alternator.

[RF Overlord]

We took off belt but noise can still be heard. First you changed the water pump, now the alternator, even though you say the noise happens without the belt. You really need to stop guessing and take the car to someone who has a clue.

[cesar]

You are right. Thanks for your help.

[Richy04]

One look at the video and I would say the alternator pulley assembly is bad. If you watch the pulley spin, the noise coincides with the center of the pulley spinning in the video. The unit is made to spin one way and freewheel the other, its bad and making that noise every time it re-engages. You will see it clearly speed up and slow down in sync with the noise. Take the belt off and see if the noise goes away plus you can rock the pulley to see if its bad. Just my guess..

But I did see you ran it without the belt on and its still there. Some things to check, and to me a good thing to do is to take a piece of heater hose and use it as a stethoscope. Flywheel, timing cover, valve covers, you will be listening for the noise and how loud it gets. You can also use a long screwdriver as a steth too. Believe it or not, the noise may be coming from somewhere else so check everything and everywhere.

[pfuster78]

Pass side timing chain and tensor. My does the same with 140000 miles

[cesar]

Well here is the final conclusion on my car. An ASE mechanic friend of mine that works at the ford house said timing chaing tensioners. His explanation went something like this. Oil drains down over night & takes some time at start up to get the oil pressure up & over time tensioners/guides wear or break inside. He said my marauder was not as bad compared to many other vehicles he has fixed with this problem. He was charging me $400 for labor to replace worn guides/tensioners(timing chain) but suggested me to save my money & drain a qt of oil out & replace it with a bottle of LUCAS engine oil stabilizer every time I change my oil. It's been about 2 weeks now with additive and have not heard the noise again at all. I drive it daily and wanted to make sure before posting results. I know some of us aren't fans of any additives but its been 2 weeks & it has worked for me. Eventually yes I will end up fixing it correctly. Thanks for everyone's help with this issue.